Fang Lair is bad design

NoMoreChillies · March 2018

The wolf are immune to:
taunt
stun
snare
immobilize

The tiger pounce gives little time for anyone to react and is unblockable

If you make my skills immune, why am i playing this game? guess i dont need to buy anymore DLC then.
Forcing everyone to run around like a chicken with no head does not reward skill.
It rewards blind luck a wolf didnt touch you and tiger didnt pounce you.

Judas Helviaryn · March 2018

It's supposed to be hectic. You're being mauled in an undead zoo.

Waffennacht · March 2018

Tank is supposed to tank all 3 together, dps healer stay to side, they should be able to deal with the adds themselves easily (like I hate mag builds with 0 shields wtf)

And when tiger pounces there should be someone right there to free them

RippingIt · March 2018

You have plenty of time to interrupt the tiger after it pounces unless the person is miles away from the group. In which case, well your healer should have Crushing Shock slotted anyways for this dungeon (notably for the lass boss HM).

As for the wolves, sure their explosions are frustrating. But it's nowhere near bad design. Just makes your fight more challenging and forces you to move instead of mindlessly standing in one place and grinding the boss down.

Abysswarrior45 · March 2018

The fight is easy if you have enough AOE but if you do it with stam it can get a little hectic for sure which is quite annoying. The little dogs should die in the AOE (so they explode away from whoever had their ago) and everyone should be kiting them around semi close to everyone else incase the tiger pounces. Really just try and nuke the 2 minibosses.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · March 2018

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

The wolf are immune to:
taunt
stun
snare
immobilize

The tiger pounce gives little time for anyone to react and is unblockable

If you make my skills immune, why am i playing this game? guess i dont need to buy anymore DLC then.
Forcing everyone to run around like a chicken with no head does not reward skill.
It rewards blind luck a wolf didnt touch you and tiger didnt pounce you.

If you 3 dps it have a mag toon slot taunt and they first taunt the senche then the bear (order is important) pull those two onto the quarwithout taunting guar. Dps only needs to side step front conal attack and keep shields up while dpsing (none of the bosses do much damage) and the tank will stand over top the dire wolves and trigger there detonation. If you focus the senche it should die quickly and it won't pounce. If it does however it will go to the furthest person so the tank basicly. Just move quickly and bash. If your dps is good enough the sence will never pounce. If you have outstanding dps you can two dps this method without worry of the senche pouncing either.

This method removes all the chaos from the fight and makes it manageable

Tasear · March 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

The wolf are immune to:
taunt
stun
snare
immobilize

The tiger pounce gives little time for anyone to react and is unblockable

If you make my skills immune, why am i playing this game? guess i dont need to buy anymore DLC then.
Forcing everyone to run around like a chicken with no head does not reward skill.
It rewards blind luck a wolf didnt touch you and tiger didnt pounce you.

If you 3 dps it have a mag toon slot taunt and they first taunt the senche then the bear (order is important) pull those two onto the quarwithout taunting guar. Dps only needs to side step front conal attack and keep shields up while dpsing (none of the bosses do much damage) and the tank will stand over top the dire wolves and trigger there detonation. If you focus the senche it should die quickly and it won't pounce. If it does however it will go to the furthest person so the tank basicly. Just move quickly and bash. If your dps is good enough the sence will never pounce. If you have outstanding dps you can two dps this method without worry of the senche pouncing either.

This method removes all the chaos from the fight and makes it manageable

Healer can off tank like in dragon star too as an option.

#healerlivesmatter

Mic1007 · March 2018

The group I cleared it with did this:

Tank dealt with the annoying wolves in the corner where they spawned.

Healer was in the middle of the room ready to gap-close and interrupt when the senche did his thing, and healed otherwise.

DPS dragged the other bosses to the other side (to where the Guar is) and then burned the Guar and after that, focused the Bear while letting AoEs take care of the Senche. The Bear has few attacks to worry about and they can healed through easily, which let the DPS hold boss aggro.

Took a few tries, but it finally worked after we got the rhythm down.

Bhaal5 · March 2018

I cant remember this fight much, just everything melted.... Boss fight was fun and picking up the helm at the end

TheDarkShadow · March 2018

From my experience, people who has completed vMA can get used to these mechanics after a few attempts. They rarely get caught by the wolves. They always keep an eye on senche and interrupt him on time. They've trained their environment awareness to avoid *** like this in vMA. They also can keep up dps while moving so the wolves and senche die quick instead of running around in panic and get pounce by the senche 10m away from the group.

Mureel · March 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

The wolf are immune to:
taunt
stun
snare
immobilize

The tiger pounce gives little time for anyone to react and is unblockable

If you make my skills immune, why am i playing this game? guess i dont need to buy anymore DLC then.
Forcing everyone to run around like a chicken with no head does not reward skill.
It rewards blind luck a wolf didnt touch you and tiger didnt pounce you.

If you 3 dps it have a mag toon slot taunt and they first taunt the senche then the bear (order is important) pull those two onto the quarwithout taunting guar. Dps only needs to side step front conal attack and keep shields up while dpsing (none of the bosses do much damage) and the tank will stand over top the dire wolves and trigger there detonation. If you focus the senche it should die quickly and it won't pounce. If it does however it will go to the furthest person so the tank basicly. Just move quickly and bash. If your dps is good enough the sence will never pounce. If you have outstanding dps you can two dps this method without worry of the senche pouncing either.

This method removes all the chaos from the fight and makes it manageable

You're welcome

I posted this strat day after release, but had healer taunt since I main a healer.

Peekachu99 · March 2018

Two of the mini-bosses are immune to taunts so most of the above strategies are terrible. Fight is done as follows:

- Tank takes big boss by spitting mid sized boss. Positions them mid of the room.
- Rest of group stays close to one another and circles around big boss and spitting guy, while dropping Destro Ults or the like.
- Bash if you don’t have the dps to nuke them all before the first pin.
- Little dogs should explode and hurt no one if you’re mobile enough and circling correctly.
- The end.

ofSunhold · March 2018

There is definitely skill involved, and teamwork is crucial. I don't love that fight, but I think the design is great. More pls

KingYogi415 · March 2018

Burning the Senche before he can pounce is essential.

Both dps must focus only Senche before bear.

Gargath · March 2018

RippingIt wrote: »

In which case, well your healer should have Crushing Shock slotted anyways for this dungeon.

Are you sure a healer should use destruction staff in dungeon?

LadyNalcarya · March 2018

Gargath wrote: »

RippingIt wrote: »

In which case, well your healer should have Crushing Shock slotted anyways for this dungeon.

Are you sure a healer should use destruction staff in dungeon?

Eh, a healer should use it at least for ele drain.

Ladislao · March 2018

Gargath wrote: »

RippingIt wrote: »

In which case, well your healer should have Crushing Shock slotted anyways for this dungeon.

Are you sure a healer should use destruction staff in dungeon?

Do you have any other suggestions? Or do you mean healer-tank with S&B+RS?

Dymence · March 2018

"I don't know the proper tactic to use for this fight, so it is terrible design"

Wrecking_Blow_Spam · March 2018

Doing this fight with bad dps with no awareness is the not good for your mental health

ak_pvp · March 2018

SCP HM is bad design

This is intentionally hectic, but can be fixed by popping them on the healer.

Peekachu99 · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

SCP HM is bad design

This is intentionally hectic, but can be fixed by popping them on the healer.

It really is, isn’t it? Until they fix the poison tells it’s a garbage fight. And half the time on HM the aoes bug, or even stack on one person and your party wipes.

Dapper Dinosaur · March 2018

This fight is very simple once you learn the correct method. I went through the whole song and dance of trying to figure out how to balance leading the wolves around, baiting them to blow up, and the senche attack. In reality, I was overthinking it. All your group has to do is group up on the bear and guar and circle around. The wolves will just follow you guys if you do it right, and nobody should be in their explosion radius. You will also never be far from the Senche's pounce target.

As soon as I did it that way, our group got through with no deaths on the first attempt.

Now, what really IS bad design is the HM for Lair. The ghosts no longer have any kind of audio clue after phase 2 starts, they're the exact same color as the dragon so they blend in behind him completely, and they come from a random direction every 5 seconds or so, which means nobody has any room for error, and when someone does die, it's nearly impossible to rez them due to the constant ghosts.

Marabornwingrion · March 2018

Dymence wrote: »

"I don't know the proper tactic to use for this fight, so it is terrible design"

90% of threads here complaining about DLC dungeons

ParaNostram · March 2018

My advice for intentionally hectic fights is to PvP. I kid you not, do a lil PvP, get used to the chaos, then come back better able to roll with the punches.

IwakuraLain42 · March 2018

The most annoying part is the Sence, usually he fears his target to the corner of the boss time and you have extremely little time to turn around, find and interrupt the boss. This might be easy using a mouse/keyboard but doing a 180 degree turn on a controller takes longer. This is a fight that is a PITA on consoles .....

Nelson_Rebel · March 2018

Everyone here saying the wolves are fine are completely wrong

The wolves need to be nerfed. Plain and simple

Dymence · March 2018

Nelson_Rebel wrote: »

Everyone here saying the wolves are fine are completely wrong

The wolves need to be nerfed. Plain and simple

Top notch argumentation

Voxicity · March 2018

This is unfortunately an L2P issue.

Just because you can't master the mechanics / tactics, doesn't make it bad game design. The boss fight you're referring to actually has pretty much 0 RNG factor to it which makes it a truly engaging fight which you feel completely in control of, if you don't suck

Saturn · March 2018

Honestly, when I read the title of this thread I thought you were referring to the HM last phase with all the mechanics going off XD

I personally don't think the undead animals are that bad, the senche jump is controllable as it always jumps to the target furthest away (so not spreading out makes it easy to deal with) and the wolves have an easy tell before they explode and can be pseudo taunted with damage aoes (volatile armour works especially well).

Izaki · March 2018

You know kiting the wolves in a circular manner (which is what is intended) while dealing DPS is actually pretty good design. And you're the first person I've seen complaining about the "little amount of time to interrupt", everyone else seems to have more than enough time to do so.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · March 2018

@Mureel didn't notice anyone else knew this strat really cool ppl are coming to the same conclusion.

@Tasear I like 3 dps method everything dies quickly and most grps don't have the dps to burn this boss without the senche pouncing. There isn't alot of excessive damage in there so 3 dps is definitely good.