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Fang Lair is bad design
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Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭
UM YES! Always!
Master Resto VMA Lightning
Or mender/worm powered resto and charged destro - if you don't have vma/master yet.
That said: I *still* love love VDSA so if anyone PC NA needs master things, @Oblivionia in game! I can always get some people together!Edited by Mureel on March 17, 2018 8:44PM3 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »@Mureel didn't notice anyone else knew this strat really cool ppl are coming to the same conclusion.
.
Hiya @Zagnut123Zagnut123 We cleared it this way on launch, before servers were taken down for emergency maintenance.
ETA: With this, 1xheal 1xtank 2xDPS our fights on that boss avg 1:30 - idk how it would be with 3x DPS.
However: I do not like the meta because I don't really want to be excluded from most of end game on my main where all my ach. are.
It took a lot of time/gold/dedication to learn my role, get all these sets, unlock all these skills (esp pre battlegrounds, and before when some were on a higher level, it is easy now!) and improve all my gear etc.
So, just because DPS is FRANKLY just OP at the moment, but magplar being nerfed tae ***, being pushed out of most of end game content makes me salty.
All the best!Edited by Mureel on March 17, 2018 8:35PM4 -
IwakuraLain42✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, when I read the title of this thread I thought you were referring to the HM last phase with all the mechanics going off XD
I personally don't think the undead animals are that bad, the senche jump is controllable as it always jumps to the target furthest away (so not spreading out makes it easy to deal with) and the wolves have an easy tell before they explode and can be pseudo taunted with damage aoes (volatile armour works especially well).
What is that easy tell/telegraph you're talking about ? Seriously, I've never seen any sign on them that they are about to explode. Maybe I overlooked it but it's none of the usual telegraphs (bad as they are).0 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »Honestly, when I read the title of this thread I thought you were referring to the HM last phase with all the mechanics going off XD
I personally don't think the undead animals are that bad, the senche jump is controllable as it always jumps to the target furthest away (so not spreading out makes it easy to deal with) and the wolves have an easy tell before they explode and can be pseudo taunted with damage aoes (volatile armour works especially well).
What is that easy tell/telegraph you're talking about ? Seriously, I've never seen any sign on them that they are about to explode. Maybe I overlooked it but it's none of the usual telegraphs (bad as they are).
They glow bright blue - then explode.
And you can just basically go 'pet' the dogs then walk away and they will explode.1 -
Bhaal5✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or three dps it and melt it all
sad that in 4 person content doesnt need a healer anymore 2 -
Shawn_PT✭✭✭✭✭
✭The only issue I have with this fight is the buggy/laggy tells, or laggy mechanics in general. Yesterday I was standing there, got one shot vMA style by a wolf that wasn't looking at me, and then when I was dead on the floor it made the red AoE and burst animation.
Also the pounce, by the time the Senche lands on the target their health is already halfway down. Crushing them releases the person only for it to die anyway for no clear reason. I've seen it a handful of times yesterday.
Either my game is totally messed or I'm missing something. And no, my ping is fine.
There's a lot of this on vSP HM too. You dodge, you die outside of the AoEs anyway. If ZoS is going to make future mechanics depend on a ping under 60 ms (which I'm pretty sure it's nigh impossible for 95% of the population if not more), then we need to be given at least a little more time to react.
vFH has this issue too. How many times have I or others died with the scream attack while we were standing smack in the middle of the safe zone behind the pillar. However, this mechanic is not so bad because 1- once you understand that the one shot happens half a second before the scream but only registers when the pillars break, it starts making sense why we're dying and 2- we have far more time to react than those one shots in the new dungeons, which generally register BEFORE the tell is even over and we have 0 chance of getting out unless we preemptively stand in a safe zone. Which isn't always possible.3 -
Sabbathius✭✭✭✭It's fine. The ONLY thing I want is that tiger doesn't clear Tab-target selection when he goes to sleep. Because the FIST thing he does when he waked up is leap at someone. And even watching for it, without being target-locked already, landing a ranged interrupt is bloody hard.1
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Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭I can confirm that the mechanic indicators in both of the new dungeons are firing way too late for them to be of any use most of the time. The wolves are exploding before their indicators even appear sometimes, and literally everyone knows about the Peryite poison breath already.2
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Ihatenightblades✭✭✭✭✭
✭These mechanics are fun its my second favorite dungeon after scp.
Maybe you should go back to fungal grotto or something this isnt a dungeon you want to pug on vet especially this early in release not everyone has done it.
I got my scp skin just need no death now for fang lair and speed run i think.
First time we did fang took almost hour and a half. Last boss kept getting us but we got it dwn after while1 -
jaws343✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Honestly, the hardest part of vet in both the new dungeons are players who don't have mics. You are playing am extremely difficult multiplayer mode, invest in a mic or get out.
Nothing nearly as frustrating as explaining mechanics and noone is able to hear it or. They can't communicate in the moment of a fight because they have to type to do so.0 -
NoMoreChillies✭✭✭✭✭
✭Most responses missed the point:
Tank skills are immune. Boss moves are unblockable. I guess DPS are still happy and think this is good design
I should not have PUG this but it came up in random dungeon finder, was my first attempt. Wont try again.Insulting people on the internet is cowardly.0 -
Shadowmaster✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »It's supposed to be hectic. You're being mauled in an undead zoo.
Its a 4man dungeon not a vet trial.
I'd love to see the death rates by dungeon.0 -
Bhaal5✭✭✭✭✭
✭I think the poin thats been missed isb keep on guam and keep moving, eeverything else melts (over simplification. But pretty much what it is)
If you're pugging i can see this been hard. But if your dps are ok youll be fine0 -
Shadowmaster✭✭✭✭
All of the DLC dungeons are stupid Dark Souls type mechanics that are basically "Do X or Y or the whole group wipes". Run into the circle in this fight, but don't run into the exact same circle in another fight. Bruh, I'm trying to grind some lame ass pledges not have difficult 4man content with crappy loot. I've got every one of them down its not about can it be beaten its about "man this design just feels AIDS, difficult for the sake of being difficult, and doesn't really add anything", at least, in my opinion, and clearly a few others.
The 4man dungeon content has gotten progressively lamer IMO. Its already a pain trying to get DLC groups for the pledges, even moreso when the content is AIDS'y.Edited by Shadowmaster on March 18, 2018 6:14AM0 -
TheDarkShadow✭✭✭✭✭
✭Honestly, the hardest part of vet in both the new dungeons are players who don't have mics. You are playing am extremely difficult multiplayer mode, invest in a mic or get out.
Nothing nearly as frustrating as explaining mechanics and noone is able to hear it or. They can't communicate in the moment of a fight because they have to type to do so.
Unless you have disable. I have Hearing Dyslexia, which make listening difficult and I've done this dungeon with pug, without voice chat. Haven't try HM though.
The other day I join a Fang lair group, did 70% group dps all the way to the bear boss. The leader want to use discord, I said I can hear (though it could make my performance worse because my brain have to work more to listen) but can't speak. At first she said "ok", but then they kicked me. It would be fine if they have the decency to say sorry and explain why, I'd even leave group myself if they said I NEED to speak. But instead they just kick and put me on ignore. Charming.Edited by TheDarkShadow on March 18, 2018 7:02AM0 -
Mirelurk✭✭✭✭All those braying Yanks who say "git gud" on stuff like this. Try playing with 350 ping when the reaction time for an insta-kill mechanic is .5 second.
I've completed this dungeon from Oceania at vet, but *** it isn't fun.Knights of Nirn | Daggerfall Covenant | PC | NA server
Swamplurk | V16 | Breton | Sorceror
Morass | V16 | Breton | Templar
Knightmire | V16 | Imperial | Dragonknight
Catagory | V9 | Khajit | Nightblade1 -
Bhaal5✭✭✭✭✭
✭All those braying Yanks who say "git gud" on stuff like this. Try playing with 350 ping when the reaction time for an insta-kill mechanic is .5 second.
I've completed this dungeon from Oceania at vet, but *** it isn't fun.
Im from Australia and on ps4.Group i did it with were all aussies as well. No issuesEdited by Bhaal5 on March 19, 2018 10:14PM0 -
SquareSausage✭✭✭✭✭srsly just crushing shock interrupt the senche.
It is very easy to see his animation as he pounces across the room, takes a couple seconds before he lands on opponenet, then couple more seconds for him to eat you. very easy, bang, job done.
Wolves you just kite and kill in aoe.
Res anyone who gets caught in explosions asap. np, hey presto.Breakfast KingPS4 EU0 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »Honestly, when I read the title of this thread I thought you were referring to the HM last phase with all the mechanics going off XD
I personally don't think the undead animals are that bad, the senche jump is controllable as it always jumps to the target furthest away (so not spreading out makes it easy to deal with) and the wolves have an easy tell before they explode and can be pseudo taunted with damage aoes (volatile armour works especially well).
What is that easy tell/telegraph you're talking about ? Seriously, I've never seen any sign on them that they are about to explode. Maybe I overlooked it but it's none of the usual telegraphs (bad as they are).
They begin to glow and a circle spreads out from them, it gives you 2 seconds to get out of it. I play with a ping always over 200 and I can still avoid it. The only time there's no tell is when you kill them and they immediately blow up.0 -
Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭IwakuraLain42 wrote: »Honestly, when I read the title of this thread I thought you were referring to the HM last phase with all the mechanics going off XD
I personally don't think the undead animals are that bad, the senche jump is controllable as it always jumps to the target furthest away (so not spreading out makes it easy to deal with) and the wolves have an easy tell before they explode and can be pseudo taunted with damage aoes (volatile armour works especially well).
What is that easy tell/telegraph you're talking about ? Seriously, I've never seen any sign on them that they are about to explode. Maybe I overlooked it but it's none of the usual telegraphs (bad as they are).
They begin to glow and a circle spreads out from them, it gives you 2 seconds to get out of it. I play with a ping always over 200 and I can still avoid it. The only time there's no tell is when you kill them and they immediately blow up.
While I have learned how to bait them into blowing up, the circles under no circumstances give you 2 seconds to get out. The vast majority of the time, the circle is not even beginning to appear when the explosion happens. It's extremely out-of-sync and nearly useless. The blue wisps are the only real indication you have for when they decide to blow up.2 -
Jameliel✭✭✭✭✭
✭My friends who quit all say ESO is lazily designed. Nearly every dungeon has the same, "red circles", "yellow circles", "green circles", "white circles". I used to argue with them since I started playing way after they did, but lately I've come to agree. The silly line-of-sight projectiles is a great example of lazy development. Missles miraculously going through/around any and all objects and hitting players.
Other MMOs I've played over the years have nearly all had dungeons/quests with more variety. Not only that, but character roles were all more well-defined. Healers heal/buff and res the dead. Various types of wizards and sorcerers do heavy damage, and some provide specialized buffs. Tanks taunt, do decent damage, and have great constitution/health. Rogue types performed heavy critical damage/found and disarmed traps, etc.
Too many dungeons rely on knowing when to roll-dodge/sprint from various colored circles. Combined with the clunky and convoluted bar-swapping to use skills, mixed in with unpredictable lag spikes, combat often feels tedious more than fun. While some people seem to embrace it, when comparing it to my favorite mmos from the past it falls short.
If it wasn't for pvp, treasure chest farming, and other random activities, I would have quit by now. The only real strength I find in ESO is the sheer number of things to do. Even at that, I find myself giving away gold and items often because I just don't care that much. For some reason this game just seems to lack real soul. It's as if the developers try too hard to make everything different from other mmos, and fail to see what made the other mmos a success.
The other thing about ESO is the community. I've met some people who are genuinely nice people and love gaming. I've also met a LOT of people on ESO, moreso than in other games, who take it far too seriously. If a death happens in a dungeon, they start complaining and pointing fingers. Never taking the time to thoroughly explain mechanics to those who don't fully understand.
In pvp, some group-leaders freak out if every single person in a huge group doesn't instantly ball up on them, or crouch .01 milliseconds after they scream a command. Seemingly they forget about the lag, various pings around the world, real life going on around people(kids, relatives, pets, etc.)
Some demand everyone download add-ons for the "leaders" benefit, yet these same "leaders" refuse to use add-ons for their own horse rapids, or for price-checking items. It always gives me a chuckle since they usually seem to be fairly intelligent. Periodically doing a bit of self-assessment/personality-evaluation, they could improve themselves a bit.
I'm anxiously awaiting new games to come out. Til then I play ESO because it currently has the most to offer. Not because it is unequivocally the best.1 -
Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭If you want to see a dungeon that's ACTUALLY bad design, take the hardmode of Scalecaller. Instead of the majority of the fight being about mechanics knowledge and on-point damage and healing, the fight is entirely decided by SEVEN different layers of RNG.
1. The RNG of who gets targetted by the fire cage attack. Good luck if it's the healer.
2. The RNG of where the ice statues spawn.
3. The RNG of where the shield is thrown after the ice statues are killed.
4. The RNG of who is being targetted by the stone orb after ice statues.
5. The RNG of where and when Peryite decides to puke. Have fun rezzing!
6. The RNG of who Zaan decides to spew her fire at. Either going to be great for rezzing or interrupting a rez in progress based on who she picks and when.
7. The RNG of random glitches happening, making mechanics not function correctly. My personal favorite happened in my last attempt earlier today where two of my teammates were well-within their survival mechanics and died anyway, throwing away our run with something completely out of our control.
THAT is bad design. Wasn't it so badly designed that the PEOPLE WHO MADE THE DUNGEON couldn't even complete it?Edited by Dapper Dinosaur on March 18, 2018 5:02PM1 -
Savage_Audacity✭✭✭When a wolf is on you simply touch it on the head and roll dodge away it will blow up without killing you. As for the senche it’s just situational awareness; watch your teammates when they get feared go ahead and aim at them so when they get pounced on you can immediately interrupt. Also if you have high dps in the group and focus the senche you can kill it before it ever pounces, then you can kill the bear before the senche revives.0
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Tasear✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Tasear 1 tank 3 magblades EZ mode no healer needed
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401334/at-what-point-does-healer-or-tank-become-not-needed#latest0
