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Stam dk or magicka dk
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Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Many will argue that you should min/max a tank race by chosing a DPS race, in which case, I would look to Dunmer (magic) or Imperial/Redgaurd (stamina).
This is an interesting argument - what's the reasoning? To maximize one of the resource pools (stam/magicka)? Or the extra side benefits from racial passives like Dunmer fire damage or Redguard stam regen?
@Grimrale @djyrb
The argument is as follows. The role in this game that is MOST dependent on racial passives is PVE DPS. The difference is objective and easy to measure. A breton magic DK of equal skill/build to a dunmer magic DK is always going to lose on raw damage numbers. If you are pushing score in PVE, the race of your DPS matters.
The role in this game where racial passive matter the least is arguably a PVE tank. One of the best tanks in the game plays a freaking Khajiit. Dont get me wrong, things like the Argonian potion passive, or the extra Health and Stamina from imperial are certainly nice, but they arent required. Tank is frankly more of a pass/fail role, and people have shown that any race can pass any content.
Therefore, if you are unsure about what you will ultimately want to do, or perhaps you want to be able to do more than one thing, it makes sense to pick a DPS race. That's where it matters most, just in case you need it.
Since imperial is a top 3 stamina damage race (redguard, Khajiit and Imperial are all pretty close), and a top 2 tank race (second to argonian), its a popular choice for a tank. You could make the same argument for dunmer, but on the magic side of things. Its the best magic race, and probably top 4 tank race (nothing wrong with boosts to both magic and stam). Some argue that Dunmer is the best all around race because they frankly dont make terrible Stamina DPS (but there are certainly better options).
Again, argonian is your best Tank Race, and perhaps your best PVP race for a lot of builds. If that is most important to you, I would start there. If you are a little more on the fence, I would look to a damage race for a little more versatility. For magic, Dunmer is your best option. For Stamina, I would frankly limit your choices to Redguard (better sustained PVE damage because the resources) or Imperial (better tank race because of the extra health). Imperial has the same damage potential as redguard (both get the same stat boost), but in practice, redguard pulls ahead because they need to do fewer heavy attacks on long fights.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on March 15, 2018 4:52PM1 -
Grimrale✭StamOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »Many will argue that you should min/max a tank race by chosing a DPS race, in which case, I would look to Dunmer (magic) or Imperial/Redgaurd (stamina).
This is an interesting argument - what's the reasoning? To maximize one of the resource pools (stam/magicka)? Or the extra side benefits from racial passives like Dunmer fire damage or Redguard stam regen?
@Grimrale @djyrb
The argument is as follows. The role in this game that is MOST dependent on racial passives is PVE DPS. The difference is objective and easy to measure. A breton magic DK of equal skill/build to a dunmer magic DK is always going to lose on raw damage numbers. If you are pushing score in PVE, the race of your DPS matters.
The role in this game where racial passive matter the least is arguably a PVE tank. One of the best tanks in the game plays a freaking Khajiit. Dont get me wrong, things like the Argonian potion passive, or the extra Health and Stamina from imperial are certainly nice, but they arent required. Tank is frankly more of a pass/fail role, and people have shown that any race can pass any content.
Therefore, if you are unsure about what you will ultimately want to do, or perhaps you want to be able to do more than one thing, it makes sense to pick a DPS race. That's where it matters most, just in case you need it.
Since imperial is a top 3 stamina damage race (redguard, Khajiit and Imperial are all pretty close), and a top 2 tank race (second to argonian), its a popular choice for a tank. You could make the same argument for dunmer, but on the magic side of things. Its the best magic race, and probably top 4 tank race (nothing wrong with boosts to both magic and stam). Some argue that Dunmer is the best all around race because they frankly dont make terrible Stamina DPS (but there are certainly better options).
Again, argonian is your best Tank Race, and perhaps your best PVP race for a lot of builds. If that is most important to you, I would start there. If you are a little more on the fence, I would look to a damage race for a little more versatility. For magic, Dunmer is your best option. For Stamina, I would frankly limit your choices to Redguard (better sustained PVE damage because the resources) or Imperial (better tank race because of the extra health). Imperial has the same damage potential as redguard (both get the same stat boost), but in practice, redguard pulls ahead because they need to do fewer heavy attacks on long fights.
Thanks for clearing that up! Very interesting."Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour."-Emperor Uriel Septim VII0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think you mean to ask "Tank DK or Stam DK". Mag DK went extinct.
This is only a true statement if talking about PVE DPS pushing score in trials that arent named VMA. mDK is ahead of sDK in VMA. mDK is VERY strong in PVP. mDK can still pull really good damage in 4-man content. mDK can even pull good trial damage, they just cant beat stamina out of a melee spot (mTemplar has an identical problem).
By your logic, mSorc, mTemplar, mWarden, sWarden, and sSorc are also extinct, because the optimal trial group at this point is basically mageblades and stamblades, with the occaisonal mSorc, stamDK and stamplar thrown in.
Dont get me wrong, mDK needs help in a PVE trials setting, but that's really the only place and the same is true of a lot of classes. I think you are overstating things just a smidge.0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭MagickaOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I think you mean to ask "Tank DK or Stam DK". Mag DK went extinct.
This is only a true statement if talking about PVE DPS pushing score in trials that arent named VMA. mDK is ahead of sDK in VMA. mDK is VERY strong in PVP. mDK can still pull really good damage in 4-man content. mDK can even pull good trial damage, they just cant beat stamina out of a melee spot (mTemplar has an identical problem).
By your logic, mSorc, mTemplar, mWarden, sWarden, and sSorc are also extinct, because the optimal trial group at this point is basically mageblades and stamblades, with the occaisonal mSorc, stamDK and stamplar thrown in.
Dont get me wrong, mDK needs help in a PVE trials setting, but that's really the only place and the same is true of a lot of classes. I think you are overstating things just a smidge.
MagDK is no stronger than many other classes, and on the weaker end if you look at it in cyro. But because of the small nature of duels, everyone assumes the class is super strong elsewhere. It suffers from many of the same problems that magplar does, but for some reason one is bad, whilst the other is "very strong." Templar at least has group utility, an expensive but usable defense and sustain, as a trade off for lock down and jankiness.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I think you mean to ask "Tank DK or Stam DK". Mag DK went extinct.
This is only a true statement if talking about PVE DPS pushing score in trials that arent named VMA. mDK is ahead of sDK in VMA. mDK is VERY strong in PVP. mDK can still pull really good damage in 4-man content. mDK can even pull good trial damage, they just cant beat stamina out of a melee spot (mTemplar has an identical problem).
By your logic, mSorc, mTemplar, mWarden, sWarden, and sSorc are also extinct, because the optimal trial group at this point is basically mageblades and stamblades, with the occaisonal mSorc, stamDK and stamplar thrown in.
Dont get me wrong, mDK needs help in a PVE trials setting, but that's really the only place and the same is true of a lot of classes. I think you are overstating things just a smidge.
MagDK is no stronger than many other classes, and on the weaker end if you look at it in cyro. But because of the small nature of duels, everyone assumes the class is super strong elsewhere. It suffers from many of the same problems that magplar does, but for some reason one is bad, whilst the other is "very strong." Templar at least has group utility, an expensive but usable defense and sustain, as a trade off for lock down and jankiness.
Dont really disagree with most of that, and kinda what I have been saying. Magic DK needs PVE love, but so do half the specs out there. My pushback is the magic DKs are acutally in a pretty good spot in PVP right now. People on the forums act like they arent, but there are some really good ones running around CYRO. They are super tanky, have a stupid amount of CC, amazing pressure, and if you time it right and build well, whip can hit like a truck. Not to mention that leap is one of the more powerful class ultimates for PVP damage a the moment. I think they are near the top of the magic food chain for open world PVP, but that of course brings us to the next point, which is stamina is generally stronger in PVP right now.
Also, magic DKs are hard counters (wings) to both magic sorcs and magic nightblade. Something else to consider.Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on March 15, 2018 8:48PM1 -
djyrb✭✭✭@Oreyn_Bearclaw Thanks for the detailed explanation! My DKs are Dunmer (Magicka DPS) and Imperial (tank), but I was considering making the Imperial into a Stam DPS. My Dunmer has been a writ monkey for the last couple of months, which is a shame as he was my main character prior to taking a break from ESO last spring. I'll look to making him a tank for the time being, based on this advice.1 -
Grimrale✭StamOreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »I think you mean to ask "Tank DK or Stam DK". Mag DK went extinct.
This is only a true statement if talking about PVE DPS pushing score in trials that arent named VMA. mDK is ahead of sDK in VMA. mDK is VERY strong in PVP. mDK can still pull really good damage in 4-man content. mDK can even pull good trial damage, they just cant beat stamina out of a melee spot (mTemplar has an identical problem).
By your logic, mSorc, mTemplar, mWarden, sWarden, and sSorc are also extinct, because the optimal trial group at this point is basically mageblades and stamblades, with the occaisonal mSorc, stamDK and stamplar thrown in.
Dont get me wrong, mDK needs help in a PVE trials setting, but that's really the only place and the same is true of a lot of classes. I think you are overstating things just a smidge.
MagDK is no stronger than many other classes, and on the weaker end if you look at it in cyro. But because of the small nature of duels, everyone assumes the class is super strong elsewhere. It suffers from many of the same problems that magplar does, but for some reason one is bad, whilst the other is "very strong." Templar at least has group utility, an expensive but usable defense and sustain, as a trade off for lock down and jankiness.
What would you do to make mDK stronger?"Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour."-Emperor Uriel Septim VII0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Oreyn_Bearclaw Thanks for the detailed explanation! My DKs are Dunmer (Magicka DPS) and Imperial (tank), but I was considering making the Imperial into a Stam DPS. My Dunmer has been a writ monkey for the last couple of months, which is a shame as he was my main character prior to taking a break from ESO last spring. I'll look to making him a tank for the time being, based on this advice.
You are most welcome, and all that sounds reasonable. Dunmer tanks work just fine. My Dunmer DK is still my first love in this game, but admittedly, it hasnt seen a lot action lately. If you decide you really love tanking, you could certainly consider a race change. Your imperial is probably a bit better option on paper, but going from DPS to tank usually involves respecs of CP, attributes, and skill points, so the dunmer is prob your personal better option. I have heard of non DK tanks being exluded from content, but never heard of a DK tank being kicked from a group because of their race.
Also, all my characters are writ monkeys. Haha. Easiest way to make gold in this game if you are in it for the long haul.1 -
beetleklee✭✭✭✭StamBoth. MagDK used to be my main, but I switched to playing StamDK and Magblade as DPS. The StamDK just does more DPS without the sustain issues.dovakiin5574 wrote: »Sustain on mag is just bad right now
I'm glad this is noticed by others. I wish the ESO community would raise more of a stink about how terrible MagDK sustain is.
I voted MagDK just because it's been my main since Beta and I have lots of fun playing it. Though, currently it's weak.
Oh, we have. I rose a stink for months about how weak MagDK is, with some ideas on how to improve it, and what did ZOS do in Dragon Bones? Lol. So yeah I just kinda gave up. Though I'm hoping this community feedback/class representation thing will bring more to light about how weak the class spec is and do something about it.
PC NA
CP 690
EP Dunmer MagDK Level 50, Stormproof
EP Dunmer MagSorc Level 50, Stormproof
EP Argonian DK Tank Level 50, Boethiah's Scythe
EP Breton Templar Healer Level 50
EP Khajiit StamDK Level 50, Stormproof
EP Dunmer Magblade Level 50, Assistant Alienist
EP Argonian Stamden Level 50, Lady of Misrule (pvp)
EP Dunmer Stamblade Level 50
DC Redguard Stamplar
AD Altmer Magwarden Healer
vMA, vDSA, vSO HM, vHRC HM, vAA, vAS+1, vMoL0 -
Grimrale✭Stambeetleklee wrote: »Both. MagDK used to be my main, but I switched to playing StamDK and Magblade as DPS. The StamDK just does more DPS without the sustain issues.dovakiin5574 wrote: »Sustain on mag is just bad right now
I'm glad this is noticed by others. I wish the ESO community would raise more of a stink about how terrible MagDK sustain is.
I voted MagDK just because it's been my main since Beta and I have lots of fun playing it. Though, currently it's weak.
Oh, we have. I rose a stink for months about how weak MagDK is, with some ideas on how to improve it, and what did ZOS do in Dragon Bones? Lol. So yeah I just kinda gave up. Though I'm hoping this community feedback/class representation thing will bring more to light about how weak the class spec is and do something about it.
I hope it does as well. It will be interesting to see if Zenimax makes the changes we want."Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour."-Emperor Uriel Septim VII0
