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The FLAWED logic in defile ( minor and major )
Ihatenightblades
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Healing debuff is completely usless in pve and nobody uses it so going into you you should know some things. Things like reverb bash and fassala durok bane etc is all pvp stuff.
Also dont forget that in pvp environments or duels healing is cut in half. So why on EARTH would there be a healing debuff thats stronger than any healing you can do to begin with?
On top of that befoul allows up to 75% heal debuff if set up right...
So a 75% heal debuff on a player WHO ALREADY HAS 50% HEALING REDUCED FROM BEING IN PVP .
Meanwhile i have to dumb over 50 pts in blessed just to get 10% extra healing...
Ya nice logic guys. Nowonder everybody and their mother is using reverb bash. Ffs i even seen a double snb magplar using reverb... not that he was great at all but that should tell you something about how unbalanced something is.
On a stam character there is no counter to heal debuff. Period. Unless of course you are a templar. They are thriving atm since they can cleanse so often at a decent cost.
Imo maximum heal debuff applied on a character should be 30%. Anymore is just unbalanced.
Oh ya and get rid of befoul cp. its basicly the problem
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WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭I will disagree.
...I like it when my enemy is crippled, frightened, and pleading for their aid of their feeble gods.5 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Or you could use minor and major mending to completely negate their defile.
But I do agree that befoul needs to be looked at. My suggestion is to move it into one of the blue cp trees to make a better trade off for putting points in it.Edited by Oakmontowls_ESO on March 14, 2018 9:27PM5 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭The befoul cp buff happened because people were complaining about "unkillable tanky players who sustain and self heal indefinitely"
So I suppose now the logic is that, well, cyrodiil and battlegrounds are supposed to be group based anyways so someone can always slot purge.
Does defile need a nerf? maybe. I think it's so strong right now because players have access to quite a few passive healing buffs.
Defile seems very op in certain situations. For example if you are a stam sorc in medium armor away from a keep by yourself and your opponent has at least some points into befoul. If you're the stam sorc in this scenario, you're probably gonna loose if your opponent is at least half as good as you. Or knows how to block.0 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Or you could use minor and major mending to completely negate their defile.
But I do agree that befoul needs to be looked at. My suggestion is to move it into one of the blue cp trees to make a better trade off for putting points in it.
Oh boy, it is so easy to get Major and, minor mending on stam sorc.
It's so simple!Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds4 -
Danksta✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭There are some NPCs that heal so it's not completely useless in PvE.
BawKinTackWarDs PS4/NA1 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Or you could use minor and major mending to completely negate their defile.
But I do agree that befoul needs to be looked at. My suggestion is to move it into one of the blue cp trees to make a better trade off for putting points in it.
Oh boy, it is so easy to get Major and, minor mending on stam sorc.
It's so simple!
#sarcasm1 -
Im_MegaDeath✭✭✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »Healing debuff is completely usless in pve and nobody uses it so going into you you should know some things. Things like reverb bash and fassala durok bane etc is all pvp stuff.
Also dont forget that in pvp environments or duels healing is cut in half. So why on EARTH would there be a healing debuff thats stronger than any healing you can do to begin with?
On top of that befoul allows up to 75% heal debuff if set up right...
So a 75% heal debuff on a player WHO ALREADY HAS 50% HEALING REDUCED FROM BEING IN PVP .
Meanwhile i have to dumb over 50 pts in blessed just to get 10% extra healing...
Ya nice logic guys. Nowonder everybody and their mother is using reverb bash. Ffs i even seen a double snb magplar using reverb... not that he was great at all but that should tell you something about how unbalanced something is.
On a stam character there is no counter to heal debuff. Period. Unless of course you are a templar. They are thriving atm since they can cleanse so often at a decent cost.
Imo maximum heal debuff applied on a character should be 30%. Anymore is just unbalanced.
Oh ya and get rid of befoul cp. its basicly the problem
You just got killed because of it didnt you :PDC - Im MegaDeath (Stam DK) PvP7 -
techprince✭✭✭✭✭Healing done cp node, healing received cp node, crit heals cp node, minor/major mending, minor/major vitality. Game has too much healing and it needs to be countered.
So go back to your cave you troll.8 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭techprince wrote: »Healing done cp node, healing received cp node, crit heals cp node, minor/major mending, minor/major vitality. Game has too much healing and it needs to be countered.
So go back to your cave you troll.
Except having one cp star counter three dumps a little too much power into the one.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds8 -
Ihatenightblades✭✭✭✭✭
✭techprince wrote: »Healing done cp node, healing received cp node, crit heals cp node, minor/major mending, minor/major vitality. Game has too much healing and it needs to be countered.
So go back to your cave you troll.
[snip] calculate that you can never have higher healing percentage than healing debuff. Plus why should someone have to sacrifice damage for healing when you dont have to sacrifice damage for heal debuff?
[snip]
[Edit to remove bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on March 14, 2018 11:51PM4 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Or you could use minor and major mending to completely negate their defile.
But I do agree that befoul needs to be looked at. My suggestion is to move it into one of the blue cp trees to make a better trade off for putting points in it.
Oh boy, it is so easy to get Major and, minor mending on stam sorc.
It's so simple!
This is why i usually run troll king on all my stam sorc builds.. Sadly. Defile meta too op. Or you could use the ritual (i think thats the healing mundus) but that kind of sucks. But troll king on an orc stam sorc is nice.0 -
Chrlynsch✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »techprince wrote: »Healing done cp node, healing received cp node, crit heals cp node, minor/major mending, minor/major vitality. Game has too much healing and it needs to be countered.
So go back to your cave you troll.
[snip] calculate that you can never have higher healing percentage than healing debuff. Plus why should someone have to sacrifice damage for healing when you dont have to sacrifice damage for heal debuff?
[snip]
[Edit to remove bait.]
By sacrificing a slot on your bar for reverb/using s&b over dw, or using durok's. Aren't those toons also sacrificing raw damage output? Food for thought.
Edit: forgot the minor defile poison/set they have to equip.Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on March 14, 2018 11:53PMCaius
Pack Leader of Scourge Alliance- First Fang of Hircine, The Beast of Bruma
PC NA0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭Assuming that defile is additive the stacking major and minor with 100 points into befoul then it reduces your healing by 69.8%. However healing itself is effected by blessed (15%), mending (25+8%), crit damage, quick recovery (15.8%), vitality (30+8%), as well as max magika and spell damage.
Oh and another 8% from 5 pieces of heavy armor.Edited by Oakmontowls_ESO on March 14, 2018 11:21PM4 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭People, why are you argueing? We know how this is going to end: first templar purge is increased in cost and reduced in effeciveness (most probably by a cooldown mechanic so magplars have to make "intelligent use" of the ability and stamplars can just forget about it) and then someone notices that defile is indeed a tat too strong and it gets scratched all together (or replaced by something even more awefull or completely useless).
No need to get agressive, really. The support ability, purge, is ofc unchanged.1 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Don't typically like or agree with your threads...until this one.
Defile is really too strong in BGs. You can purge it but it comes right back in 1s. My suggestion has been a 3s immunity to defile after you or an ally has been purged.2 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Zoom out a bit guys.
Healing in PVP is super strong. It really is. Most decent players can hold off death for minutes at a time, even indefinitely depending on sustain and damage. Time-to-kill (the time it takes to kill someone) is hella long. We don't want to make TTK longer. Why not? Simply because PVP full of tanks and healbots is the epitome of boring...
edit: How is defile illogical? Healing is a thing: Defile counters the thing?Edited by kadar on March 14, 2018 11:43PM0 -
badmojo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yet another reason they need to revert the group only nerf of purge. Please ZOS, I beg you, Make Purge Great Again!
Playing as a warden healer with a bunch of points into Befoul, minor defile poisons and corrupting pollen spamming enemy zergs constantly, I can attest that purge helps groups ignore my defiling efforts. But defile is highly effective on non-grouped zergs who don't have someone constantly purging them.
I still see defile having a good effect on organized ball groups, but it requires me to spam corrupting pollen on them over and over. Spamming it makes them constantly have to purge it off until their purgers start running low on resources or switch to heals because they're dying. At least that's how it appears from my perspective. It's hard to tell in the thick of it exactly how effective my defile debuffs are, or if anyone else is applying it too.
MagWardens are lucky when it comes to defile, Blue Betty costs nothing to remove it.[DC/NA]0 -
Lexxypwns✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭@Ihatenightblades normally I ignore you because I think you’re a troll, but I think it’s important to touch on something here.
On live, befoul+defile stacking is crazy broken. However, if you’re not running a defile it’s virtually impossible to kill a high crit build with good healing. This is one of the main reasons stamblades over perform, they’ve got ~90% increased crit damage which translates to a 90% healing increase when you can force vigor+Rally crits. They can indefinitely reset fights as long as they’ve got enough sustain.
If they’re really removing CHD modifier from healing then Befoul needs a big time nerf and damage shields overall need a small nerf. Mag sorc will then need to be given some better healing, give them the additional healing of crit Surge on the base skill and make the stamina version have a new effect. We’ll also need to adjust a few abilities that allow too much concurrent damage and compensate that with buffs to other parts of the offensive kit of each class
Overall, that would lower TTK noticeably without making combat too punishing for casuals(raising the skill floor and whatnot), this would lead to CP combat being a happy medium of no-CP on live which is too punishing and has specific balance issues and CP PvP on live. It should allow us to maintain the fast paced battles without making you make too many compromises in your build Or leaving NOC guards in Cyrodiil overpoweredEdited by Lexxypwns on March 14, 2018 11:59PM3 -
kadar✭✭✭✭✭
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Is defile OP or broken if it's impossible to kill builds with good healing without using defile?On live, befoul+defile stacking is crazy broken. However, if you’re not running a defile it’s virtually impossible to kill a high crit build with good healing. This is one of the main reasons stamblades over perform, they’ve got ~90% increased crit damage which translates to a 90% healing increase when you can force vigor+Rally crits. They can indefinitely reset fights as long as they’ve got enough sustain.
Separate issue, but: sNB is out-healed by other stam classes due to lack of mending passives. It's why troll king is a sNB staple. It helps compensate for low, well...non-existent mending uptimes.
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Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Defile is essentially dealing with both Minor/Major Mending/Vitality as well as the Blessed/Quick Recovery CP stars. Its value is going to be inflated, otherwise in groups the healing will be nigh unstoppable.
Can't readily give you a solution to this though.0 -
Ihatenightblades✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Ihatenightblades normally I ignore you because I think you’re a troll, but I think it’s important to touch on something here.
On live, befoul+defile stacking is crazy broken. However, if you’re not running a defile it’s virtually impossible to kill a high crit build with good healing. This is one of the main reasons stamblades over perform, they’ve got ~90% increased crit damage which translates to a 90% healing increase when you can force vigor+Rally crits. They can indefinitely reset fights as long as they’ve got enough sustain.
If they’re really removing CHD modifier from healing then Befoul needs a big time nerf and damage shields overall need a small nerf. Mag sorc will then need to be given some better healing, give them the additional healing of crit Surge on the base skill and make the stamina version have a new effect. We’ll also need to adjust a few abilities that allow too much concurrent damage and compensate that with buffs to other parts of the offensive kit of each class
Overall, that would lower TTK noticeably without making combat too punishing for casuals(raising the skill floor and whatnot), this would lead to CP combat being a happy medium of no-CP on live which is too punishing and has specific balance issues and CP PvP on live. It should allow us to maintain the fast paced battles without making you make too many compromises in your build Or leaving NOC guards in Cyrodiil overpowered
Stam blade atleast takes skill surviving in medium armor which is whats best imo for stamblades. Stamblades can easily be 2 shotted or even 1shot if not played right.
Reverb takes no skill lol.
And i dont want defile removed from game. Just toned down like a cap maybe? Like no more than 30% heal debuff which lets he honest feels like 50-70% even with 10% in blessed and 5% in healing received and 20% in crit. Throw on ritual? Ya wont do nothing lol. 75% heal debuff is basically 100%. Atleast thats what it feels like.0 -
Velvelya✭✭✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »
On a stam character there is no counter to heal debuff. Period. Unless of course you are a templar. They are thriving atm since they can cleanse so often at a decent cost.
Imo maximum heal debuff applied on a character should be 30%. Anymore is just unbalanced.
Oh ya and get rid of befoul cp. its basicly the problem
In what world....? maybe only in instances of being able to cleanse, but other than that Temp is the suckiest PVP class.Edited by Velvelya on March 15, 2018 12:58AM2 -
sly007✭✭✭✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »Or you could use minor and major mending to completely negate their defile.
But I do agree that befoul needs to be looked at. My suggestion is to move it into one of the blue cp trees to make a better trade off for putting points in it.
We can all agree that the cp for reducing healing recieved is more potent than for increasing healing done. You cannot counter defile in a 1:1 ratio with mending.1 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »
On a stam character there is no counter to heal debuff. Period. Unless of course you are a templar. They are thriving atm since they can cleanse so often at a decent cost.
Imo maximum heal debuff applied on a character should be 30%. Anymore is just unbalanced.
Oh ya and get rid of befoul cp. its basicly the problem
In what world....? maybe only in instances of being able to cleanse, but other than that Temp is the suckiest PVP class.
Lol what? Cleanz dots is not strong?0 -
LeagueTroll✭✭✭✭✭Defile need some nerf, i agree, but I really don’t see why it should be removed. Also the dmg against ward cp need to be buffed too.1
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MaxwellC✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yeah no defile is fine in PvP especially when you can stack healing buffs and healing received also stacks with healing done.不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
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PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
Coined by Maxwell0 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ihatenightblades wrote: »Healing debuff is completely usless in pve and nobody uses it so going into you you should know some things. Things like reverb bash and fassala durok bane etc is all pvp stuff.
Also dont forget that in pvp environments or duels healing is cut in half. So why on EARTH would there be a healing debuff thats stronger than any healing you can do to begin with?
On top of that befoul allows up to 75% heal debuff if set up right...
So a 75% heal debuff on a player WHO ALREADY HAS 50% HEALING REDUCED FROM BEING IN PVP .
Meanwhile i have to dumb over 50 pts in blessed just to get 10% extra healing...
Ya nice logic guys. Nowonder everybody and their mother is using reverb bash. Ffs i even seen a double snb magplar using reverb... not that he was great at all but that should tell you something about how unbalanced something is.
On a stam character there is no counter to heal debuff. Period. Unless of course you are a templar. They are thriving atm since they can cleanse so often at a decent cost.
Imo maximum heal debuff applied on a character should be 30%. Anymore is just unbalanced.
Oh ya and get rid of befoul cp. its basicly the problem
how....
is something applied to everybody....
an imbalance?
where are my 1st year logic students at?! get this fool!!!! :-)"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.0 -
Priyasekarssk✭✭✭✭✭Synapsis123 wrote: »Yeah I have to agree. Heal debuffs are a bit too strong at the moment.
Otherwise templars and DKs will rule PVP. Healing debuffs are necessary.1
