Is ZOS planning to remove spell crit from healing?

Knowledge · March 2018

I've read several posts stating that spell crit and healing crit is being removed from healers toolkits sometime in the next patch? I can't seem to find any information regarding this.

starkerealm · March 2018

Given there are proc sets designed to trigger on a crit heal? Probably not.

Sixty5 · March 2018

Who knows what ZOS are doing next patch.

I wouldn't worry about any of that until the next PTS drops.

Dracane · March 2018

Rumors regarding Elder Scrolls, despite what ZoS and Bethesda say about rumors, are 95% of the time true.
This one here probably belongs to the 5% that are indeed just wrong.

swippy · March 2018

when i read the thing, i took it as the things that increase crit damage will not be increasing crit heals. i hoped it meant heals will still crit, just that it would be from a "base" crit rather than being increasable by that crit damage stat.

i confess i have no recollection where i saw this, and it could very well have been a dream. i hope someone who knows more will show up here.

Dracane · March 2018

swippy wrote: »

when i read the thing, i took it as the things that increase crit damage will not be increasing crit heals. i hoped it meant heals will still crit, just that it would be from a "base" crit rather than being increasable by that crit damage stat.

i confess i have no recollection where i saw this, and it could very well have been a dream. i hope someone who knows more will show up here.

Does crit damage increase crit heals anyway ? If so, then this seems either buggy or way too strong to me, thus could/should be changed.

ak_pvp · March 2018

They are changing it so crit damage modifier doesn't affect heals. Which IMO it should, since spell and weapon damage both increase healing.

technohic · March 2018

They were talking about a passive that said "increase critical damage" as being fixed as it was not supposed to include heals. They also then said the templar passive will also need to be fixed here

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4920821#Comment_4920821

Extrapolating from that, one can assume they mean anything that says "increase critical damage" should not increase heals

FrancisCrawford · March 2018

But Elfborn hopefully will still affect heals.

swippy · March 2018

the post linked above doesn't ring a bell. i think there might be another official correspondence that mentioned it also.

i used to have an eidetic memory, but i'm coming to terms with the fact that it's operating differently the past few years. also i've been a little sick recently. sorry @Dracane i wish i could be more helpful.

Knowledge · March 2018

technohic wrote: »

They were talking about a passive that said "increase critical damage" as being fixed as it was not supposed to include heals. They also then said the templar passive will also need to be fixed here

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4920821#Comment_4920821

Extrapolating from that, one can assume they mean anything that says "increase critical damage" should not increase heals

Any more Green quotes regarding this?

danno8 · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

They are changing it so crit damage modifier doesn't affect heals. Which IMO it should, since spell and damage both increase healing.

I am not sure they thought it through. So spell crit damage doesn't include healing crit magnitude, but spell damage increases healing?

Or will they have a spell power, spell crit, spell crit magnitude, and a healing power, healing crit and healing crit magnitude?

They shouldn't change it without considering the logical implications.

Feanor · March 2018

There have been several instances of “double dipping” (a skill affected by several modifiers) in the past that have been amended. This is no different. As healing is not damage it should be totally untied from damage modifiers and spell and weapon power. This would alleviate the situation that in almost all cases you’re better off stacking damage and raw stats. Would give more build diversity.

I’d be totally happy if the healing beneath cloak wouldn’t be a guaranteed crit though to begin with.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · March 2018

More screwing of the base game mechanics to account for the power creep caused by CP.

Mayrael · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

There have been several instances of “double dipping” (a skill affected by several modifiers) in the past that have been amended. This is no different. As healing is not damage it should be totally untied from damage modifiers and spell and weapon power. This would alleviate the situation that in almost all cases you’re better off stacking damage and raw stats. Would give more build diversity.

I’d be totally happy if the healing beneath cloak wouldn’t be a guaranteed crit though to begin with.

Pretty much this... And in terms of consistency if cloak guarantees next attack to be critical, heals shouldn't affect it because:
1. Heals are not attacks.
2. Only one attack have 100% critical chance so why all heals are 100% critical?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Mayrael wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

There have been several instances of “double dipping” (a skill affected by several modifiers) in the past that have been amended. This is no different. As healing is not damage it should be totally untied from damage modifiers and spell and weapon power. This would alleviate the situation that in almost all cases you’re better off stacking damage and raw stats. Would give more build diversity.

I’d be totally happy if the healing beneath cloak wouldn’t be a guaranteed crit though to begin with.

Pretty much this... And in terms of consistency if cloak guarantees next attack to be critical, heals shouldn't affect it because:
1. Heals are not attacks.
2. Only one attack have 100% critical chance so why all heals are 100% critical?

1. In this game, heals are calulated as attacks that restore health. Always been like that.
2. I have no problem with this.

My thread on nightblades loosing the CHD modifier for heals is the only one I have seen. I noticed the reduction of my heals on my magblade immediately because I build him around high crit modifyer. I ought to have a 90% crit hit damage, I did before dragonbones, but after it was only 80% for heals. Soon it will be 77% if they nerf the shadow as well, as if it needed it.

This is a straight nerf because of PvP. No other way around it. If they wanted the tooltips to be more clear and accurate, all they would have had to do is add "and healing" to all the tooltips.

Feanor · March 2018

This is a straight nerf because of PvP. No other way around it.

And who actually cloaks in PvE (unless you want to cheese vMA)? Cloak is primarily a PvP skill. So PvP adjustments are fine.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

This is a straight nerf because of PvP. No other way around it.

And who actually cloaks in PvE (unless you want to cheese vMA)? Cloak is primarily a PvP skill. So PvP adjustments are fine.

Not talking about cloak, bud. I really could not care less about cloak. I am talking about the removal of nightblades passive 10% increase in crit hit damage from the passive "hemorrhage" applying to heals. This happened in dragonbones. And they are also nerfing Templars crit hit damage applying to heals from the passive "piercing spear", maybe this very patch they are pushing out right now. These both are nerf to temp healers and nightblade healers in pve and will make both classes just that much more easy to kill in PvP.

The worse part of this is that zos said nothing about this in the dragonbones patch. Like they hoped noone would notice

technohic · March 2018

This is not a PvP nerf. It’s not a nerf the way they are describing it. It’s a “whoops! That’s not how this was supposed to work”

Problem is; it’s always been like this and balance has been done around it. They have a track record of not revisiting balance when making changes like this. IE Templars losing major mending after jabs heal nerf.

Marto · March 2018

technohic wrote: »

Problem is; it’s always been like this and balance has been done around it. They have a track record of not revisiting balance when making changes like this. IE Templars losing major mending after jabs heal nerf.

Templars losing major mending has more to do with turning them into a more active class. They can no longer just cast spells mindlessly. That is what made them the most powerful, but also the most dull of the healing classes.

technohic · March 2018

Marto wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

Problem is; it’s always been like this and balance has been done around it. They have a track record of not revisiting balance when making changes like this. IE Templars losing major mending after jabs heal nerf.

Templars losing major mending has more to do with turning them into a more active class. They can no longer just cast spells mindlessly. That is what made them the most powerful, but also the most dull of the healing classes.

That’s really missing the point though. They nerfed jabs due to that and didn’t revisit after it was no longer a thing.

Feanor · March 2018

I dunno if Hemorrhage crits affecting NB HoTs are a major issue. It’s the guaranteed heal crits when cloak that are way out of line.

sParkSnare · March 2018

I've read several posts stating that rumors and innuendo are... nothing but rumors and innuendo.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

sParkSnare wrote: »

I've read several posts stating that rumors and innuendo are... nothing but rumors and innuendo.

Nightblade nerf-https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4917078/#Comment_4917078

Templar nerf- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4920821/#Comment_4920821

Feanor wrote: »

I dunno if Hemorrhage crits affecting NB HoTs are a major issue. It’s the guaranteed heal crits when cloak that are way out of line.

It is not just hots, this is all heals. Resto heals, vigor, forward momentum, blood craze, if it is a heal and can crit, it does 10% less now.

Beardimus · March 2018

Rumour has it MagSorc are still OP, and we know rumours are wrong..

Ashtaris · March 2018

TROLL

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Ashtaris wrote: »

TROLL

What does this post mean? The op is confused but not far off. Zos IS nerfing healing for nightblades and templars. I have linked to the posts confirming this in my previous replys.

Turelus · March 2018

Dracane wrote: »

Rumors regarding Elder Scrolls, despite what ZoS and Bethesda say about rumors, are 95% of the time true.
This one here probably belongs to the 5% that are indeed just wrong.

I heard a rumour that ZOS are planning on removing Templars from the game.

danno8 · March 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Ashtaris wrote: »

TROLL

What does this post mean? The op is confused but not far off. Zos IS nerfing healing for nightblades and templars. I have linked to the posts confirming this in my previous replys.

Reading is hard for some. Easier to grab a funny meme and post it than read for 2 minutes.

Epona222 · March 2018

The way I read it, was that crit modifiers for certain class DAMAGE abilities were being fixed so that they no longer affected heal crits, and would only affect damage crit as intended. One of the skills was Haemorrhage (or whatever the US spelling of that is, I am English so have my spellchecker set to UK English). I didn't read from it that crits on heals were being removed. Just modifiers from a couple of abilities that were only ever intended to be damage only.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Epona222 wrote: »

The way I read it, was that crit modifiers for certain class DAMAGE abilities were being fixed so that they no longer affected heal crits, and would only affect damage crit as intended. One of the skills was Haemorrhage (or whatever the US spelling of that is, I am English so have my spellchecker set to UK English). I didn't read from it that crits on heals were being removed. Just modifiers from a couple of abilities that were only ever intended to be damage only.

Read these.

Nightblade nerf-https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4917078/#Comment_4917078

Templar nerf- https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4920821/#Comment_4920821

This is a straight nerf. No matter how you look at it. Unless they pull the way major and minor force work on heals as well and stop the shadow from working on heals, there is no reason to think otherwise.