Magicka sorcerers.

teladoy · March 2018

The class is boring and not effective. you get also very after read all the time that crystal fragment has been evaded and that you can only abuse of your execute and that’s it.

Feanor · March 2018

At least one thing never changes with Sorcs: The nerf QQing in the forum.

TelvanniWizard · March 2018

I feel good. But could feel better.

Buff please?

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

At least one thing never changes with Sorcs: The nerf QQing in the forum.

TBH it's always the same few people that keep whining. That sergykid keeps banging his head on mS for how many weeks now without accepting any help from experienced players?

On topic, sorcs feel bland. If it wasn't for streak I would forget that I don't run a classless template in PvP. Being forced into a specific weapon and playstyle becomes ... boring... to say the least.

Biro123 · March 2018

OdinForge wrote: »

I think sorc should get a pretty hefty redesign (neither nerf nor buff, just to open more build variety), but that will never happen.

I feel like with the right gear grinded out, sorc is pretty good in pvp. They do feel so limited to specific play-styles more than other classes. I'm finding myself playing my sorc more now versus my other classes. They have such high pug killing potential combined with superb kiting capability that doesn't require you to build tanky or use cloak.

Pretty-much my view, too.

They're in an ok place - not the best, not the worst - which is fine.

But the problem - the biggest problem - is that to be 'ok' they are pigeon-holed into one or 2 specific playstyles - dictated by their abilities (there are a few gear options - but they all pretty much result in the same playstyles).Trying to do anything other than the usual playstyle and they drop very, very quickly from 'ok' to 'terrible'

Aebaradath · March 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OK in PvE.

WEAK in PvP!

Sorcs need to do more damage, especially against heavy armor.

Right. Spamming Mage's Wrath in PvP is totally underwhelming...

Feanor · March 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OK in PvE.

WEAK in PvP!

Sorcs need to do more damage, especially against heavy armor.

Right. Spamming Mage's Wrath in PvP is totally underwhelming...

Every class can spam their execute from the back of a zerg or within a BG. That says nothing about the strength of a class. But your comment highlights one of the main problems with how Sorcs are perceived. Fury is so common on death recaps that people still think Sorcs are OP. It’s a misconception.

Aebaradath · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OK in PvE.

WEAK in PvP!

Sorcs need to do more damage, especially against heavy armor.

Right. Spamming Mage's Wrath in PvP is totally underwhelming...

Every class can spam their execute from the back of a zerg or within a BG. That says nothing about the strength of a class. But your comment highlights one of the main problems with how Sorcs are perceived. Fury is so common on death recaps that people still think Sorcs are OP. It’s a misconception.

I'd love to hear how one of the most powerful and easiest to play classes needs a buff. It's hardly a misconception when you just need 5 abilities at most to do well.

Kel · March 2018

ParaNostram wrote: »

I do wish the sorc kit allowed for greater build variety though. Seems all sorcs play mostly the same.

I fully agree with what you say. The problem is when you do try to play a different way from the meta you get called useless or ***, even if your build works great.
So there is greater variety...most people play the same because they almost have to if they want to play at all. (Meaning group content outside of PvP.) Or because they are tired of having to explain why thier builds work when people stubbornly try to say "Yeah, but you're not using this gear/skill...you're no good.."
It wears a person out..the "one way or no way" mentality.

Feanor · March 2018

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

PelinalWhitestrake wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OK in PvE.

WEAK in PvP!

Sorcs need to do more damage, especially against heavy armor.

Right. Spamming Mage's Wrath in PvP is totally underwhelming...

Every class can spam their execute from the back of a zerg or within a BG. That says nothing about the strength of a class. But your comment highlights one of the main problems with how Sorcs are perceived. Fury is so common on death recaps that people still think Sorcs are OP. It’s a misconception.

I'd love to hear how one of the most powerful and easiest to play classes needs a buff. It's hardly a misconception when you just need 5 abilities at most to do well.

Buff isn’t the right word. Overhaul is. Every Sorc in open world PvP essentially plays the same. You go destro/resto, and the bar setups are dictated by that, or DW with Overload if you want to have a harder time. These “5 abilities” are the only thing Sorcs have. You’re practically limited to 3 builds.

It’s not much different in PvE. You either play PetSorc or a Force Pulse Spammer with Asylum Staff.

Sorc certainly isn’t bottom tier. It’s not OP either. I’d love to have a class overhaul that concentrated on the Sorc signature and improved the overall toolkit than a blanket buff. Or I just can play Nightblade.

Maulkin · March 2018

pieratsos wrote: »

boring

ParaNostram wrote: »

I do wish the sorc kit allowed for greater build variety though. Seems all sorcs play mostly the same.

Yep, hit the nail on the head. Strength wise, fine. Middle ground, not too strong but neither weak.

Goddamit if it isn’t the most unchanged, rigid meta though. Only thing changed in 4 years is replacing Crushing Shock with Reach due to the CC loss. Every Sorc build identical to the next at this point (PvP wise at least, since there’s always homogeneity in PvE anyways)

Seraphayel · March 2018

Why should Sorcerer be limited more than other classes when it comes to playstyles? Would love to see an example here, please.

Every class is pretty limited in their playstyle not just Sorc. Unfortunately that's the nature of ESO.

Malamar1229 · March 2018

Micahs weak, every one else is okay

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Why should Sorcerer be limited more than other classes when it comes to playstyles? Would love to see an example here, please.

Every class is pretty limited in their playstyle not just Sorc. Unfortunately that's the nature of ESO.

With a look at PvP, I can use my magblade as ganker or brawler. I can use light or heavy armor, I can go melee or ranged. I can run different sets, destro, resto, DW even 2h and still get good results.
Now try running a heavy armor mag sorc, look how difficult it got to run a DW mSorc. Or just think that every set up for mSorcs look nearly the same. At the moment, they are not just forced into really, really similar bar setups, they are even forced to use a specific weapon to make up for the stun removal on frags.

In my mind, most limiting factors are the missing class spam and the frag nerf on top of the need to double slot many skills. Plus shield stacking is annoying for everyone involved, but it's still necessary since ranged combat and mobility are easily countered by one gap closer.

Girl_Number8 · March 2018

They need to bring back the frag stun.

Beardimus · March 2018

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OK in PvE.

WEAK in PvP!

Sorcs need to do more damage, especially against heavy armor.

Lul

....wait are you serious? Uh.. I mean... yea! Give sorcs more damage!

Yep she is, do you PvP? As its totally what they need. Their burst is wet now compared to many other classes. Frag stun nerf was a double whammy and went too far

Universe · March 2018

Unfortunately no matter what this thread will probably turn to nerf sorcerer! thread.

Sorcerers are fine.
PVP wise they are ok, not too good since they lack some burst against stamina or heavy defense magicka builds.
PVE wise they are good, great DPS and manageable sustain.

Ch4mpTW · March 2018

I feel as though ZOS is beginning to start bs again regarding the class. Removing the stun from C-Frags wasn’t cool, and neither was it cool for them to leave Bolt Escape broken for so long. Starting to have flashbacks.

Universe · March 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I feel as though ZOS is beginning to start bs again regarding the class. Removing the stun from C-Frags wasn’t cool, and neither was it cool for them to leave Bolt Escape broken for so long. Starting to have flashbacks.

ZOS will nerf Magicka sorcerer even more, it is only a matter of time

OdinForge · March 2018

The_Brosteen wrote: »

OdinForge wrote: »

I think sorc should get a pretty hefty redesign (neither nerf nor buff, just to open more build variety), but that will never happen.

I feel like with the right gear grinded out, sorc is pretty good in pvp. They do feel so limited to specific play-styles more than other classes. I'm finding myself playing my sorc more now versus my other classes. They have such high pug killing potential combined with superb kiting capability that doesn't require you to build tanky or use cloak.

I too find myself playing sorc more. Especially in battlegrounds. I honestly don't have any issues with damage or sustain although I'm still missing a masters inferno staff.

I'm missing a master inferno staff as well actually, need some peeps to run VDSA with. But I have a master lightning staff and I'm just using that in the meantime, because I honestly don't play enough at the moment to run VDSA anyway. The lightning staff CC seems a little bit easier to pull off, but the fire staff is better ultimately.

I'm also missing lich jewelry among other important sets, so I'm very limited in what I can do.

Beardimus wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OK in PvE.

WEAK in PvP!

Sorcs need to do more damage, especially against heavy armor.

Lul

....wait are you serious? Uh.. I mean... yea! Give sorcs more damage!

Yep she is, do you PvP? As its totally what they need. Their burst is wet now compared to many other classes. Frag stun nerf was a double whammy and went too far

That's because Emma would think magsorc needs buffs, even if it was the definitive and undeniably strongest class. Magsorc is awesome when it's played to its strengths, and if you have the right gear grinded out for it.

It's not all perfect for magsorc, but it's fine.

Derra · March 2018

Too weak if you don´t use harness magica. Too strong if you do use it.

For open world pvp that is.

The_Brosteen · March 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

OK in PvE.

WEAK in PvP!

Sorcs need to do more damage, especially against heavy armor.

Lul

....wait are you serious? Uh.. I mean... yea! Give sorcs more damage!

Yep she is, do you PvP? As its totally what they need. Their burst is wet now compared to many other classes. Frag stun nerf was a double whammy and went too far

Thats weird because I dont feel like my burst is "wet" when I play magsorc. I'm not even max cp. Maybe it's your gear?

Seraphayel · March 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Why should Sorcerer be limited more than other classes when it comes to playstyles? Would love to see an example here, please.

Every class is pretty limited in their playstyle not just Sorc. Unfortunately that's the nature of ESO.

With a look at PvP, I can use my magblade as ganker or brawler. I can use light or heavy armor, I can go melee or ranged. I can run different sets, destro, resto, DW even 2h and still get good results.
Now try running a heavy armor mag sorc, look how difficult it got to run a DW mSorc. Or just think that every set up for mSorcs look nearly the same. At the moment, they are not just forced into really, really similar bar setups, they are even forced to use a specific weapon to make up for the stun removal on frags.

In my mind, most limiting factors are the missing class spam and the frag nerf on top of the need to double slot many skills. Plus shield stacking is annoying for everyone involved, but it's still necessary since ranged combat and mobility are easily countered by one gap closer.

Thanks for your post! So... how doesn't apply this to Sorcerer as well? You can play it the same way as a Nightblade. You are not forced to use skill A or armour Z, you've got mostly the same choices as a Nightblade. I agree that diversity might be a bit better for NBs at the moment but Sorcerers aren't in such a bad spot like some of you want it to make. To be fair the removal of Frags stun was necessary. The skill was OP. There were several ways ZOS could have nerfed it (less damage, lower proc chance, no CC) and they choose the no CC route which hurts PvP more than PvE - it still was a necessary nerf overall. Am I missing it on my Sorc? Sure. Nevertheless the skill overperformed a lot.

Feanor · March 2018

There were several ways ZOS could have nerfed it (less damage, lower proc chance, no CC)

Funny they did two out of the three. I expect proc chance will be next until the last Sorc mains simply switch to a NB.

Seraphayel · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

There were several ways ZOS could have nerfed it (less damage, lower proc chance, no CC)

Funny they did two out of the three. I expect proc chance will be next until the last Sorc mains simply switch to a NB.

To be fair, MagNBs have been[snip] for a very long time, much longer than Sorcs have been just "mediocre" (Sorcs actually never were bad).

[Edited to remove profanity]

Biro123 · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Why should Sorcerer be limited more than other classes when it comes to playstyles? Would love to see an example here, please.

Every class is pretty limited in their playstyle not just Sorc. Unfortunately that's the nature of ESO.

With a look at PvP, I can use my magblade as ganker or brawler. I can use light or heavy armor, I can go melee or ranged. I can run different sets, destro, resto, DW even 2h and still get good results.
Now try running a heavy armor mag sorc, look how difficult it got to run a DW mSorc. Or just think that every set up for mSorcs look nearly the same. At the moment, they are not just forced into really, really similar bar setups, they are even forced to use a specific weapon to make up for the stun removal on frags.

In my mind, most limiting factors are the missing class spam and the frag nerf on top of the need to double slot many skills. Plus shield stacking is annoying for everyone involved, but it's still necessary since ranged combat and mobility are easily countered by one gap closer.

Thanks for your post! So... how doesn't apply this to Sorcerer as well? You can play it the same way as a Nightblade. You are not forced to use skill A or armour Z, you've got mostly the same choices as a Nightblade. I agree that diversity might be a bit better for NBs at the moment but Sorcerers aren't in such a bad spot like some of you want it to make. To be fair the removal of Frags stun was necessary. The skill was OP. There were several ways ZOS could have nerfed it (less damage, lower proc chance, no CC) and they choose the no CC route which hurts PvP more than PvE - it still was a necessary nerf overall. Am I missing it on my Sorc? Sure. Nevertheless the skill overperformed a lot.

It simply doesn't..

If we start with a basis of Magblade playing like a standard sorc.. ranged, light armour, shields, then look at what a magblade changes to play different ways...

1. Melee. NB has a some strong melee-specific anytime, and ulti, an ability which both snares his opponent and gives major exped to the NB, cloak to safely get into melee range and a good disengage mechanic with shade/cloak. Sorc has 0 melee attacks - and so no point going melee.
2. Drop shield-based defence for resists/healing. NB gets access to a LOT of heals over time. a lot. Which works well with heavy since the less damage you take, the less you need to heal. NB's also have the sustain tools to do this in heavy, and shade giving more damage reduction. Sorc doesn't have anywhere near the heals to do this, nor the sustain to sustain it. It very quickly becomes apparent that you're better off in light/shields.
3. Spell-dmg builds. Not relying on shields lets you have lower mag and higher spell-damage (ie more build options). Since sorcs still need those shields, magica is always a priority.
4. DW builds. Magblade has great class-based ranged and melee anytimes. Sorc has none.

Basically, sorc only does ranged for attack (stuck with destro due to lack of anytime), shields for defence - cos its all they have, stuck with resto for heals (cos its all they have) - and mobility (which takes 2-3 abilities to make the best of it). This kind of dictates what almost all of your skillbar contains and therefore forces what your build and playstyle is.
Don't get me wrong - it is possible to build and play differently - but i comes with a huge drop in effectiveness - to the point where it just isn't worth it.

NB can do melee or ranged, destro or DW, light or heavy, focus defence on either cloak, or shields or mitigation/heals. And various combinations of.. And be effective in all of them.

Sergykid · March 2018

i'm okay with sorcs damage, buff their frags by 20% for all i care.

my problem is about their defenses, a glass cannon shouldn't have same damage mitigation as a tank.

Feanor · March 2018

I posted this in another thread, but it's still accurate.

Ok. Let’s have a look on these best passives in the game.

Rebate - Restore 1452 Magicka if a pet is killed. Very situational and as the base cost of a pet summon is 3495, doesn’t even refund a significant amount of the cost.

Power Stone - Reduce Ultimate cost by 15%. Very strong.

Daedric Protection - Increases health and stam recovery with a Daedric Summoning ability slotted. Nice, but not very powerful (stamSorcs seldom have one of these slotted, and magSorcs mostly run base stamina Regen).

Expert Summoner - increase health by 8% with an active pet. Again, situational, it’s nice on pet builds.

Unholy Knowledge - reduces Magicka and stamina costs of all abilities by 5%. Very good passive considering Alteration gives 6% and is a 5 pc set.

Blood magic - Hitting an enemy with a Dark Magic ability heals for 8% max health. The heal is negligible. Even with 24k health it’s a 1.920 heal before Battle Spirit. It’s not really noticeable.

Persistence - increase the duration of Dark Magic abilities by 20%. Most notably it’s an extra 2 seconds on negate and an extra 6 on mines. Not really awesome.

Exploitation - grants minor prophecy upon activating a dark magic ability. Good for group play as it’s one of the few sources of minor prophecy. However in PvP the worth of extra Spell Crit is not great.

Capacitor - Increase mag recovery by 10%. Good passive.

Energized - increase physical and shock damage by 5%. Good passive.

Implosion - 6% chance when dealing shock or physical damage to disintegrate an opponent while he is under 15% HP, dealing 4372 shock/physical damage. The most hated passive in the game I guess. A random proc execute. It‘s bad design and should be changed to something else that helps the Sorc kit.

Expert Mage - increase weapon and spell damage by 2% for each Sorcerer ability slotted. While that may sound great Sorcs are so tight on bar space (even if you consider overload) that you don’t get that much out of it.

So we have 5 really good passives. Out of 12.

Master Assassin - Increase your weapon and spell damage by 10% while you are sneaking or invisible. Stuns from sneak have a 100% duration increase.

Executioner - restore 1876 Mag or Stam if an enemy dies within 2 seconds of being damaged by an Assassination ability.

Pressure Points - increase weapon and spell crit by 438 for each Assassination ability slotted

Hemorrhage - Increase critical damage done by 10%, dealing critical damage grants you and your group minor savagery.

Refreshing Shadows - increase all recovery by 15%.

Shadow Barrier - casting a shadow ability grants Major Resolve and Major Ward for 6 seconds, duration increased by 25% for every piece of Heavy Armor.

Dark Vigor - Increase Max health by 3% for each shadow ability slotted

Dark Veil - Increase duration of shadow abilities by 15%

Catalyst - gain 20 ultimate after drinking a potion.

Magicka Flood - gain 8% Max Magicka while a siphoning ability is slotted

Soul Siphoner - Increase healing done by 3% for each siphoning ability slotted

Transfer - casting a siphoning ability generates 2 ultimate. 4 second cooldown.

I count at least 9 good ones. Out of 12. But yeah. Nerf Sorcs.

Alpheu5 · March 2018

Still having fun with mine. Went back to my One Tamriel bars with one skill and monster set change.

Sky_WK · March 2018

Sergykid wrote: »

i'm okay with sorcs damage, buff their frags by 20% for all i care.

my problem is about their defenses, a glass cannon shouldn't have same damage mitigation as a tank.

They don't. Their shields burn around 10-11k magicka if they cast 3, and give them about 10k of shields, shields that have ZERO resistances. If you can't do 10k dps idk what to tell ya.