Why overland isn't fun for endgame players in one picture

FakeFox · March 2018

A boss that dies in three seconds and does no mechanics what so ever isn't fun and sadly this is the case with pretty much all overland content. I really like questing, however with every enemy dying in two hits it simply isn't fun. In my opinion the level scaling needs some serious tweaking, so that endgame players don't outscale overland enemies so much.

Aliyavana · March 2018

Questing isn't challenging if you know what your doing. The buff I'd like to see is red aoes and attacks you are supposed to block/bash become deadlier so we can teach new players to stay outta the red. So many pugs blame the tank or healer for being unable to help with a instant kill red telegraph

FakeFox · March 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

Questing isn't challenging if you know what your doing. The buff I'd like to see is red aoes and attacks you are supposed to block become deadlier so we can teach new players to stay outta the red

Well yes, however there is no point to that if enemies are dead before they can even to those mechanics.

Yakidafi · March 2018

I just read a topic where the op, a new player said it is too hard..

I take fun in killing stuff in overland with low time as I remember how it was when I started when it took a considerable time and effort, due to the content being harder then but also bcs I was new to the game. My opinion.

Carbonised · March 2018

You used destro ult and like 4 other skills on a delve boss. What exactly did you expect? And let me guess, youre in gold equipment and maxed out cp too.

Maybe just maybe you can leave some stuff for the non cp non optimised new players. This stuff wont be a walkover to them. Its not as if delve bosses were ever meant to be a challenge to a maxed out player.

Go do a vet dlc dung if youre that bored.

essi2 · March 2018

As someone who recently started over on NA to play with some friends, I can say with confidence that Overland is already challenging enough for non-CP characters.

And I don't see how ZOS could fix this without shafting new players.

Aliyavana · March 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

Questing isn't challenging if you know what your doing. The buff I'd like to see is red aoes and attacks you are supposed to block become deadlier so we can teach new players to stay outta the red

Well yes, however there is no point to that if enemies are dead before they can even to those mechanics.

I'd like to point out that questing should mainly be a training ground for end game content which fails at that. A new player is unlikely to kill a mob fast but that's why red aoes should be buffed

Gargath · March 2018

The bosses in overland delves could be scaled to a player level, cp and gears. That could partially solve the issue I think.
So for max cp player the boss has no longer 150k hp but e.g. 1,5 milion instead and hits 2x harder.

FakeFox · March 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

You used destro ult and like 4 other skills on a delve boss. What exactly did you expect? And let me guess, youre in gold equipment and maxed out cp too.

Maybe just maybe you can leave some stuff for the non cp non optimised new players. This stuff wont be a walkover to them. Its not as if delve bosses were ever meant to be a challenge to a maxed out player.

Go do a vet dlc dung if youre that bored.

The build is just quickly slapped together as I usually don't play sorc, but that doesn't really matter here. Yes I used my ult, but that should be expected as you maybe meet a boss every 15-20 minutes and between those encounters there is really nothing else to use it on.
The point about my post that you seem to miss is that I don't want overland content to be generally harder and I know there are newer players that struggle with it. That's why I want the scaling to be changed to better fit the players strength and make it a fun experience for everyone.

essi2 · March 2018

Gargath wrote: »

The bosses in overland delves could be scaled to a player level, cp and gears. That could partially solve the issue I think.
So for max cp player the boss has no longer 150k hp but e.g. 1,5 milion instead and hits 2x harder.

You would have to instance the world to all hell and back to achieve this effect.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

Stop using that old combat metrics, use the new hottness, https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/392871/combat-metrics-0-8-0-beta-test/p1, it shows you the actual average of your crit, even through your mechanical acuity proc and shows you how much your penetration is and averages that.

xclassgaming · March 2018

Yakidafi wrote: »

I just read a topic where the op, a new player said it is too hard..

I take fun in killing stuff in overland with low time as I remember how it was when I started when it took a considerable time and effort, due to the content being harder then but also bcs I was new to the game. My opinion.

I 100 percent agree, i used to struggle so much with a simple lurcher or that boss in the daggerfall castle, now its like a walk in the park

Princess_Ciri · March 2018

To be fair, when I play my healer if I am too lazy to switch into DPS gear, killing overland bosses in CwC or even questing normally means that things take a bit of time to die. I don't love questing, I do it for the achievements and stuff that comes with that, so I'd rather than overland PvE didn't become harder since otherwise I'd have to find people to help me and then it becomes as tedious as when you need to farm gear from a dungeon -_-

Plus new players/people who don't optimise find it challenging, so i don't really mind if it stays as it is. It's not really fair to them if the difficulty is increased so much they can't complete simple quests.

FakeFox · March 2018

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

To be fair, when I play my healer if I am too lazy to switch into DPS gear, killing overland bosses in CwC or even questing normally means that things take a bit of time to die. I don't love questing, I do it for the achievements and stuff that comes with that, so I'd rather than overland PvE didn't become harder since otherwise I'd have to find people to help me and then it becomes as tedious as when you need to farm gear from a dungeon -_-

Plus new players/people who don't optimise find it challenging, so i don't really mind if it stays as it is. It's not really fair to them if the difficulty is increased so much they can't complete simple quests.

Hence why I suggest changing the scaling system to better reflect a individual players strength.

zaria · March 2018

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

To be fair, when I play my healer if I am too lazy to switch into DPS gear, killing overland bosses in CwC or even questing normally means that things take a bit of time to die. I don't love questing, I do it for the achievements and stuff that comes with that, so I'd rather than overland PvE didn't become harder since otherwise I'd have to find people to help me and then it becomes as tedious as when you need to farm gear from a dungeon -_-

Plus new players/people who don't optimise find it challenging, so i don't really mind if it stays as it is. It's not really fair to them if the difficulty is increased so much they can't complete simple quests.

Same here, has an templar healer i also do quests on
She gave her dps gear to an sorcerer alt and now only have spc and some other sustain sets.
Has an overland bar however with vigor and some other stuff. Pretty fun how sweeps trigger spc proc.

Seraphayel · March 2018

Difficulty should increase significantly when you reach level 50 / CP160. It's too easy for max level players, I agree.

Keep the scaling from 1-49 but 50+ should get a lot harder.

Princess_Ciri · March 2018

That's going to be difficult to implement surely though. How would you judge an individual player's strength? Their CP? You have max cp players who struggle with overland mobs now. You could base it on gear but someone could have max level gold gear and still not have a good build and struggle in overland. The issue with ESO is that there aren't really any easy ways for the game to know who is 'good' and who isn't.

And then there's people like me who can clear overland mobs easily with no challenge but I don't really feel like I want that to change because quests are zzz and making them more difficult just means I have to spend more time doing content I am trying to clear as fast as possible.

Like, what exactly are you suggesting ZOS do?

red_emu · March 2018

Carbonised wrote: »

You used destro ult and like 4 other skills on a delve boss. What exactly did you expect? And let me guess, youre in gold equipment and maxed out cp too.

Maybe just maybe you can leave some stuff for the non cp non optimised new players. This stuff wont be a walkover to them. Its not as if delve bosses were ever meant to be a challenge to a maxed out player.

Go do a vet dlc dung if youre that bored.

That. Here is your answer OP. Destro ULT isn't exactly spammable.

dazee · March 2018

FakeFox wrote: »

A boss that dies in three seconds and does no mechanics what so ever isn't fun and sadly this is the case with pretty much all overland content. I really like questing, however with every enemy dying in two hits it simply isn't fun. In my opinion the level scaling needs some serious tweaking, so that endgame players don't outscale overland enemies so much.

In short, yes and no. Regular questing isnt supposed to provide a satisfying dark souls like challenge, or even close to it. It's supposed to be fairly easy.

But scaling does need to take into account CP better. NO ONE should have ridiculous enough dps to kill a world boss solo in seconds.

FakeFox · March 2018

Princess_Ciri wrote: »

That's going to be difficult to implement surely though. How would you judge an individual player's strength? Their CP? You have max cp players who struggle with overland mobs now. You could base it on gear but someone could have max level gold gear and still not have a good build and struggle in overland. The issue with ESO is that there aren't really any easy ways for the game to know who is 'good' and who isn't.

And then there's people like me who can clear overland mobs easily with no challenge but I don't really feel like I want that to change because quests are zzz and making them more difficult just means I have to spend more time doing content I am trying to clear as fast as possible.

Like, what exactly are you suggesting ZOS do?

I'm confronted with the problem as a player, not as a developer. So I guess ZOS can come up with better solutions then me, however carrying level-scaling over into CP would for sure be a solution. I would imagine this resulting in a steady increase of difficulty up to CP-cap. I don't want it to be vet dungeons level of difficult as it should still be doable without DPS builds, however a slight increase in general difficulty shouldn't hurt anyone. Additionally Bosses should be tweaked to actually require tactics, their mechanics should pose a threat but be avoidable for everyone by dodging or interrupting. Adding "veteran overland" would be a interesting solution as well, that has been brought up many times already.

FakeFox · March 2018

red_emu wrote: »

Carbonised wrote: »

You used destro ult and like 4 other skills on a delve boss. What exactly did you expect? And let me guess, youre in gold equipment and maxed out cp too.

Maybe just maybe you can leave some stuff for the non cp non optimised new players. This stuff wont be a walkover to them. Its not as if delve bosses were ever meant to be a challenge to a maxed out player.

Go do a vet dlc dung if youre that bored.

That. Here is your answer OP. Destro ULT isn't exactly spammable.

FakeFox wrote: »

Yes I used my ult, but that should be expected as you maybe meet a boss every 15-20 minutes and between those encounters there is really nothing else to use it on.

And here is your answer. Bosses aren't spawning in hordes either. They should be the encounters where you want to utilize your whole build and what you want to save your resources for, no?

Bonzodog01 · March 2018

To give an example, on my magplar, she just melts through overland content with real ease, and even a 300k boss isn't much of a challenge.

HOWEVER - I have a stamblade that I am doing a completionist run on - FAR more fun to play, runs hundings/night mothers/agility, but a 300k Public Dungeon boss can take multiple attempts to kill sheerly due to stamblades having almost no sustain. I just killed Primate Artorius in a 10 minute fight (again, 2 attempts) where I spent most of it kiting him until I could get some stamina back!

I have 673 CP, and I really do think it depends on your ability and your build. Even at this CP, none of my chars have above undaunted 3, as I really don't do the whole group play thing, and am only interested in the Dungeons for the Quests and lorebooks hidden inside!

So yeah, overland content is fine as it is. If you are really running through overland content that easily, try a harder stamina class with purely crafted gear then come back to us. Sorcs and templars find content easy, where as the PvE learning curve of a stamblade is sheer torture.

FakeFox · March 2018

Bonzodog01 wrote: »

To give an example, on my magplar, she just melts through overland content with real ease, and even a 300k boss isn't much of a challenge.

HOWEVER - I have a stamblade that I am doing a completionist run on - FAR more fun to play, runs hundings/night mothers/agility, but a 300k Public Dungeon boss can take multiple attempts to kill sheerly due to stamblades having almost no sustain. I just killed Primate Artorius in a 10 minute fight (again, 2 attempts) where I spent most of it kiting him until I could get some stamina back!

I have 673 CP, and I really do think it depends on your ability and your build. Even at this CP, none of my chars have above undaunted 3, as I really don't do the whole group play thing, and am only interested in the Dungeons for the Quests and lorebooks hidden inside!

So yeah, overland content is fine as it is. If you are really running through overland content that easily, try a harder stamina class with purely crafted gear then come back to us. Sorcs and templars find content easy, where as the PvE learning curve of a stamblade is sheer torture.

I have played every DD in the game and fully disagree.

Edit: Just done the same boss on my stamblade for curiosity. It took a whole 6 seconds, naked without blue CP.

TequilaFire · March 2018

OP I challenge you to start a new account from scratch, not an alt and come back and say the same thing.

FakeFox · March 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

OP I challenge you to start a new account from scratch, not an alt and come back and say the same thing.

Did you even read my post(s)? This has nothing to do with what I suggest to be changed.

Zorgon_The_Revenged · March 2018

OP drops everything on a 150k health delve boss and says stuff's too easy. Since the game released the delve bosses have never been hard to kill, 5 bots wearing starter gear could kill them in less time back in the day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEoXFEEOrj8

Doctordarkspawn · March 2018

Repeat after me:

The entire game does not have to catre to my interests

There is content designed for me

There are other games designed for my interests

Repeat until you figure it out.

Niobium · March 2018

My first thought was: What world boss dies in 3s? That's impressive!

Then realized dude just rolled over a delve mob with an ultimate.

FakeFox · March 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Repeat after me:

The entire game does not have to catre to my interests

There is content designed for me

There are other games designed for my interests

Repeat until you figure it out.

Repeat after me:

I should read and understand a post before commenting.

Repeat until you figure it out.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

it is a misconception that mobs in this game scale. They do NOT scale. You scale. Writing code to adjust every mob to a players level/cp and then trying to factor in a mechanic that if a second player helps of a different level or joins in would be quite a complicated task.

Instead you scale down. Overland "vanilla" content is designed for level 50 or so. DLC overland seems to be just a bit harder. Regular vanilla dungeons are designed for level 50. DLC normal dungeons ( and IIs) are designed for CP 160. In a DLC dungeon if you are below 160 CP there is a notification in the upper right that says your level has been buffed to CP 160. Vet dungeons and normal trials are designed for CP 300( i think), and vet trials is designed for around 550-600 plus CP.

The only way they could do this is to debuff you down to the contents level. But not all players want to be debuffed, so it would have to be an optional check box that you enable. For example to disable CP and debuff your gear down to blue tier.

Overland content is fine. Up to level 50 it can be challenging and delve bosses can be hard or impossible to solo. By CP 160, the content doesnt offer much of a challenge. And by time you get to CP 300 you can pretty much sleep through it and thats fine.

An alternative, if you want more of a challenge is to get you some random green dropped gear and use it instead. Dont use ultimates. If you really want to make it challenging go with random dropped gear and unallocate all your cp.

FakeFox · March 2018

Niobium wrote: »

My first thought was: What world boss dies in 3s? That's impressive!

Then realized dude just rolled over a delve mob with an ultimate.

*Delveboss

But interesting note as Worldbosses have seen rebalancing in the past and are currently doing what they are supposed to do I think.
Oh, and btw this is not supposed be be a showcase of skill, more a showcase that skills isn't needed in this situation.