Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?

Knowledge · March 2018

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

The point of this thread is to bring up solutions to a problem. There's two extremes in the title. "Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? " and then " Should we be able to buy them? "

No, like most of your threads, the point of this thread is for you to find validation in your ideas. Your mind is clearly already made up and you have no interest in actual constructive discussion about any perceived problems. You only want to defend your ideas here, not discuss them. There have been many, many actual points made about why your ideas are unlikely to work, and you choose to ignore them in favor of responding to low hanging fruit.

That is your misguided perception of my attempt to discuss the CP issue. Individuals coming into the thread that simply state contradictory things are not helping the discussion. " CP won't make you better. " then why do they care if we have it faster?

"CP does nothing" then give it to us quicker.

A veteran player has come into this thread stating the CP grind on his fresh account is abhorrent with all yellow gear and scrolls/pots. There's a difference between attacking me and contributing to a discussion. Whether you deem my discussion valid or not is none of my concern. It doesn't change or alter its course.

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

That is your misguided perception of my attempt to discuss the CP issue.There's a difference between attacking me and contributing to a discussion. Whether you deem my discussion valid or not is none of my concern. It doesn't change or alter its course.

Um, again, no. My perception is just fine, thanks. Your threads on the other hand...

I contributed plenty to your "discussion" earlier. You just chose to ignore it. This thread has run in circles, and nowhere in it have you been amenable to actually talking. All you've done is plop your ideas down in front and defend them vigorously to the last, resulting in this entire thread becoming a pointless argument. There's been no real discussion here.

So you're right, it doesn't change or alter its course. You did that all on your own. It's headed straight for the garbage bin.

FleetwoodSmack · March 2018

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

That is your misguided perception of my attempt to discuss the CP issue.There's a difference between attacking me and contributing to a discussion. Whether you deem my discussion valid or not is none of my concern. It doesn't change or alter its course.

Um, again, no. My perception is just fine, thanks. Your threads on the other hand...

I contributed plenty to your "discussion" earlier. You just chose to ignore it. This thread has run in circles, and nowhere in it have you been amenable to actually talking. All you've done is plop your ideas down in front and defend them vigorously to the last, resulting in this entire thread becoming a pointless argument. There's been no real discussion here.

So you're right, it doesn't change or alter its course. You did that all on your own. It's headed straight for the garbage bin.

I definitely agree and hope that it's in the bin by morning.

Knowledge · March 2018

A viable solution to this whole problem would be No-CP dungeons, No-CP Trials,, and No-CP Maelstrom Arena. They already offer no-cp battleground and cyrodil. There's no reason why we can't have the choice.

Maryal · March 2018

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is discouraging -- the gap is huge and they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' ordeal since the CP cap increases each patch. Newer players won't reap the benefits of grinding CP while an extended CP cap freeze is in place, nor will they receive a lump-sum of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed CP eligible players who are low in CP a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

Knowledge · March 2018

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is very discouraging -- not only is the gap huge, but they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' process because the CP cap keeps increasing with each patch. They don't get the benefit of grinding their CP during a time with an extended CP cap freeze. They also aren't benefitting from a lump-sum award of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed low CP players a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

Thank you for a realistic explanation of the situation. As I have stated the people defending the CP levels and system have not had to endure the steep grind. A lot of them don't know what it's like save for a few that have made new accounts to see it first hand as one or more people in this thread have stated.

This is a real problem guys. It is essentially a 720 level game.

FleetwoodSmack · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is very discouraging -- not only is the gap huge, but they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' process because the CP cap keeps increasing with each patch. They don't get the benefit of grinding their CP during a time with an extended CP cap freeze. They also aren't benefitting from a lump-sum award of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed low CP players a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

Thank you for a realistic explanation of the situation. As I have stated the people defending the CP levels and system have not had to endure the steep grind. A lot of them don't know what it's like save for a few that have made new accounts to see it first hand as one or more people in this thread have stated.

This is a real problem guys. It is essentially a 720 level game.

HAHAHAHA! That's a funny joke.

rustic_potato · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is very discouraging -- not only is the gap huge, but they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' process because the CP cap keeps increasing with each patch. They don't get the benefit of grinding their CP during a time with an extended CP cap freeze. They also aren't benefitting from a lump-sum award of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed low CP players a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

Thank you for a realistic explanation of the situation. As I have stated the people defending the CP levels and system have not had to endure the steep grind. A lot of them don't know what it's like save for a few that have made new accounts to see it first hand as one or more people in this thread have stated.

This is a real problem guys. It is essentially a 720 level game.

Problem with the forums is that the players who know what they are doing in game actually doing end game stuff dont really participate in serious discussions. I would have completely ignored this thread if not for my personal experience with the grind.

Then you have the ultra casuals who think that doing half their class dps ceiling is an achievement. For them CP doesnt really matter as the difference would be minimal. These kind of players are the ones that will flock these threads and have no clue what they are talking about. Anyways this is essentially a dead discussion. Back to trolling other threads.

crjs1 · March 2018

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is discouraging -- the gap is huge and they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' ordeal since the CP cap increases each patch. Newer players won't reap the benefits of grinding CP while an extended CP cap freeze is in place, nor will they receive a lump-sum of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed CP eligible players who are low in CP a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

A very sensible solution! I agree entirely.

Knowledge · March 2018

crjs1 wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is discouraging -- the gap is huge and they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' ordeal since the CP cap increases each patch. Newer players won't reap the benefits of grinding CP while an extended CP cap freeze is in place, nor will they receive a lump-sum of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed CP eligible players who are low in CP a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

A very sensible solution! I agree entirely.

Thanks for chiming in and it is by no means "pay to win" it's "paying for time". Just like we buy mount speed and xp.

AlnilamE · March 2018

phatmhat wrote: »

So basically to compete you have to have the time. Time = win. Less time = less winning.

Playing video games in your mom's house so that you have more cp and better gear, so that you more easily win = earning your win.

Playing on the weekend for a few hours, after taking care of job and family, and going up against people a hundred cp levels above you and in much better gear, and being disadvantaged by such = not earning your win.

Sounds like a sucky setup. You want to play pick up games against people who are playing pick up games. And you end up playing a game vs pros - pros mostly because they put in time.

If you are talking about Pvp, there are two non-CP campaigns, once exclusively for sub-50 characters and another for everyone else.

You can build your character for non-CP PvP and enjoy the game about people who have 1000+ and then the only thing limiting you will be the fact that they are more skilled than you.

If you are talking about PvE, then the road to end game will get you all the CP you need by the time you are ready for the content in terms of skill.

AlnilamE · March 2018

Maryal wrote: »

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is discouraging -- the gap is huge and they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' ordeal since the CP cap increases each patch. Newer players won't reap the benefits of grinding CP while an extended CP cap freeze is in place, nor will they receive a lump-sum of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed CP eligible players who are low in CP a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

On the other hand, those of us who have always been above the CP cap since it was introduced have been penalized with a 1.5X XP penalty for earning CP above the cap. In the time it takes me to earn 1 champion point, a player at 300 CP earns 4.
A player at 400 CP earns 3 and a bit and a player at 600 CP earns 2 and a half.

I think people need to stop looking at the CP cap as the point where they can finally start to play the game. Even if you are an endgame/leaderboard oriented player, there is a LOT for you to learn in terms of mechanics and rotations and the learning process for that is going to earn you plenty of CP.

Knowledge wrote: »

A viable solution to this whole problem would be No-CP dungeons, No-CP Trials,, and No-CP Maelstrom Arena. They already offer no-cp battleground and cyrodil. There's no reason why we can't have the choice.

I'm not sure about Trials, because I've not tried taking a sub-50 character there, but the normal dungeons are pretty much non-CP already.

dazee · March 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

And that's how you get wipes on the twins, because your amazing 40k DerPS wandered across the candle line, or won't ****ing move when you need to rotate, because they're just too good to need to know the mechanics.
*head desks*

Yeah can't tell you how many times I've got some idiot in a normal dungeon who runs way ahead of the tank pulling -everything- then eventually actually DIES becuase he's specced for nothing but max dps and no survival, then blames the healer for not healing him (when he was about halfway through the dungeon ahead of the healer in the first 15 seconds)

starkerealm · March 2018

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

A viable solution to this whole problem would be No-CP dungeons, No-CP Trials,, and No-CP Maelstrom Arena. They already offer no-cp battleground and cyrodil. There's no reason why we can't have the choice.

I'm not sure about Trials, because I've not tried taking a sub-50 character there, but the normal dungeons are pretty much non-CP already.

Normal trials are pretty much non-CP as well. When it's working right, nMA's a joke as well. So, yeah, that whole, "no-CP trials, Maelstrom, and dungeons," already exists. Now, granted, you won't get busts, and purple jewelry, but, then again, that's the whole point with your argument @Knowledge. You want all the rewards, without having to put in any effort to get there.

Okay, nHoF is pretty brutal to start, but otherwise, nAA, nSO, nHRC, and nAS are all effectively no-CP challenges.

Eatmyface · March 2018

There should be a way to buy 0-50 once you've done it 'X' amount of times - maybe 3? After that, it really is a waste of time.

People, generally speaking - there are always outliers, aren't "learning" their character's play styles at this stage. They're rocking up to the alik'r desert, throwing a LFDG in in zone chat and standing at a dolmen for a few mins watching Netflix while other people get XP for them.

AlnilamE · March 2018

dazee wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

And that's how you get wipes on the twins, because your amazing 40k DerPS wandered across the candle line, or won't ****ing move when you need to rotate, because they're just too good to need to know the mechanics.
*head desks*

Yeah can't tell you how many times I've got some idiot in a normal dungeon who runs way ahead of the tank pulling -everything- then eventually actually DIES becuase he's specced for nothing but max dps and no survival, then blames the healer for not healing him (when he was about halfway through the dungeon ahead of the healer in the first 15 seconds)

That reminds me of one of my first training runs in SO (which was just SO at the time, there was no normal and vet). My friend who was leading brought in a healer from her other guild and we are in the manti room and he's explaining the fight. He drops an extended ritual in the spot we are supposed to stand in for the big trash pull and he says "This is my healing circle. If you are outside of it, you're dead to me." :-P

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Eatmyface wrote: »

There should be a way to buy 0-50 once you've done it 'X' amount of times - maybe 3? After that, it really is a waste of time.

People, generally speaking - there are always outliers, aren't "learning" their character's play styles at this stage. They're rocking up to the alik'r desert, throwing a LFDG in in zone chat and standing at a dolmen for a few mins watching Netflix while other people get XP for them.

Several other MMOs that I know of offer this with mixed results, at least according to their populace. Lots of complaints about not knowing how to play a class.

I would be bored cross-eyed doing the Dolmen thing (did it once years back for silly reasons, never again). But there's so much to do I can't see just doing that but that's the beauty of the game, do what makes you happy so long as it's not messing with others.

Ihatenightblades · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

There is a CP catch-up mechanic, it's called enlightenment, and the experience requirements for the lower CP levels are heavily reduced each patch to allow you to catch up.

As much as I love EVE, this is not EVE. EVE's business model does not belong in this game, and if you want that, you should go play EVE.

Earn what you have.

I don't feel like that is enough of a catch up. I would settle for permanent enlightenment until the previous CP cap is met. For example, if we had "permanent enlightenment" up to 690 CP that would make sense.

I know people who were at cp 90 a month ago. They are at 350 now..

Use 150% xp pots and you shouldnt have a problem.

Do you power level? I suggest you go to alikir desert and kill mobs over and over that re spawn quickly. This gets the most use out of the scrolls and xp pots.

Good luck

Jayman1000 · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

I dont even think this is enough. ZOS should sell max level characters on the crown store. 1000$ for max level, that should earn them a nice lump of cash.

Eatmyface · March 2018

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Eatmyface wrote: »

There should be a way to buy 0-50 once you've done it 'X' amount of times - maybe 3? After that, it really is a waste of time.

People, generally speaking - there are always outliers, aren't "learning" their character's play styles at this stage. They're rocking up to the alik'r desert, throwing a LFDG in in zone chat and standing at a dolmen for a few mins watching Netflix while other people get XP for them.

Several other MMOs that I know of offer this with mixed results, at least according to their populace. Lots of complaints about not knowing how to play a class.

I would be bored cross-eyed doing the Dolmen thing (did it once years back for silly reasons, never again). But there's so much to do I can't see just doing that but that's the beauty of the game, do what makes you happy so long as it's not messing with others.

I do it, begrudgingly.

For a multitude of real-life reasons, I can spend 1-2 hours per day and have to prioritise what that's spent on. Most evenings it's a trial + 1-2 pledges. I'd love to create more toons and play some different roles but I just don't have time to level.

Rock and a hard place, as I totally get the other side of the coin.

TheCyberDruid · March 2018

For what it is worth... I'm playing with my wife that started playing three months after me and she's catching up on CP just fine. Granted it's not a 'play a week, be at maximum CP' deal, but she gains CP at a *much* faster rate than me (me: 600-ish and she: 300-ish). So the catch up is working fine. Mind you she can easily keep up in any kind of content that isn't HM vet dungeons or CP PVP. Plus she has plenty of content (as in really written content) to go.

I'd love to have a way to get a second/third/etc 'toon' to level 50 faster (yes, it can be done in couple of hours, but it's mind-bogglingly boring), but it shouldn't involve a bigger wallet than someone that just likes the game.

SilverIce58 · March 2018

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

I dont even think this is enough. ZOS should sell max level characters on the crown store. 1000$ for max level, that should earn them a nice lump of cash.

I'm sure that someone would actually buy that tbh.

Jhalin · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is very discouraging -- not only is the gap huge, but they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' process because the CP cap keeps increasing with each patch. They don't get the benefit of grinding their CP during a time with an extended CP cap freeze. They also aren't benefitting from a lump-sum award of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed low CP players a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

Thank you for a realistic explanation of the situation. As I have stated the people defending the CP levels and system have not had to endure the steep grind. A lot of them don't know what it's like save for a few that have made new accounts to see it first hand as one or more people in this thread have stated.

This is a real problem guys. It is essentially a 720 level game.

It's not a realistic explanation because the exp needed to reach old cap is nearly the same amount to reach the new cap, meaning that right now the exp needed to reach 300cp is the lowest it's ever been, and this trend will continue as the cp cap rises.

And as I already mentioned in this thread, I was here for this "steep grind". CP cap when I joined was 600, and I started out at lvl22 when I picked the game back up. I hit cp160 within a few months, playing irregularly and with a poor understanding of how the game worked. It is not hard to earn cp.

Just looking at a number with absolutely no understanding of how it's scaled will tell you nothing. It has never been a "cp cap or bust" game. A few vets wanting >500cp players for vet content doesn't make it anything close to a 720 level game, especially because all gear is capped at 160cp, and all content is balanced around 160cp (norm), 300cp (standard vet), or 500cp (vet hard mode). Yes I'm aware the lack of meaningful mechanics in non-DLCs make many level suggestions redundant if you're skilled at the game.

All solo content is easily cleared at any level, and cp160 is enough to run nTrials even with a pug group.

Knowledge · March 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is very discouraging -- not only is the gap huge, but they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' process because the CP cap keeps increasing with each patch. They don't get the benefit of grinding their CP during a time with an extended CP cap freeze. They also aren't benefitting from a lump-sum award of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed low CP players a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

Thank you for a realistic explanation of the situation. As I have stated the people defending the CP levels and system have not had to endure the steep grind. A lot of them don't know what it's like save for a few that have made new accounts to see it first hand as one or more people in this thread have stated.

This is a real problem guys. It is essentially a 720 level game.

It's not a realistic explanation because the exp needed to reach old cap is nearly the same amount to reach the new cap, meaning that right now the exp needed to reach 300cp is the lowest it's ever been, and this trend will continue as the cp cap rises.

And as I already mentioned in this thread, I was here for this "steep grind". CP cap when I joined was 600, and I started out at lvl22 when I picked the game back up. I hit cp160 within a few months, playing irregularly and with a poor understanding of how the game worked. It is not hard to earn cp.

Just looking at a number with absolutely no understanding of how it's scaled will tell you nothing. It has never been a "cp cap or bust" game. A few vets wanting >500cp players for vet content doesn't make it anything close to a 720 level game, especially because all gear is capped at 160cp, and all content is balanced around 160cp (norm), 300cp (standard vet), or 500cp (vet hard mode). Yes I'm aware the lack of meaningful mechanics in non-DLCs make many level suggestions redundant if you're skilled at the game.

All solo content is easily cleared at any level, and cp160 is enough to run nTrials even with a pug group.

The amount of XP to go from 0 to 720 is higher than it has ever been period.

starkerealm · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

CP was something that was phased in - it was designed to replace VR (veteran) levels. The phase-in period was gradual, and during this time we had CP and VR levels (both).

When VR levels were finally removed, players were awarded 10 CP points per VR level they had attained (VR levels went from VR1 - VR16). This resulted in many players getting a lump-sum of 'free' CPs added to the CPs they had already earned.

Starting with the Orsinium dlc, ZOS capped the number of CPs you could spend to 501 and kept it at that level for a long time (I think around 9 months or so). This a.) allowed time for many players to reach that CP cap and b.) it also helped to stop the small group of players who already had CP far in excess of the cap from dominating the field.

Trying to reach the CP cap for newer players is very discouraging -- not only is the gap huge, but they face a 'two steps forward, one step back' process because the CP cap keeps increasing with each patch. They don't get the benefit of grinding their CP during a time with an extended CP cap freeze. They also aren't benefitting from a lump-sum award of free CP points as many of us did.

When you look at it in terms of 'time saved' ... most of us (that have been around for a while) benefitted by not having to grind 150-200-points worth of our total CPs. Therefore, I would have no problem whatsoever if ZOS allowed low CP players a one-time option to purchase 150-200 CPs to save them that same amount of time.

Thank you for a realistic explanation of the situation. As I have stated the people defending the CP levels and system have not had to endure the steep grind. A lot of them don't know what it's like save for a few that have made new accounts to see it first hand as one or more people in this thread have stated.

This is a real problem guys. It is essentially a 720 level game.

It's not a realistic explanation because the exp needed to reach old cap is nearly the same amount to reach the new cap, meaning that right now the exp needed to reach 300cp is the lowest it's ever been, and this trend will continue as the cp cap rises.

And as I already mentioned in this thread, I was here for this "steep grind". CP cap when I joined was 600, and I started out at lvl22 when I picked the game back up. I hit cp160 within a few months, playing irregularly and with a poor understanding of how the game worked. It is not hard to earn cp.

Just looking at a number with absolutely no understanding of how it's scaled will tell you nothing. It has never been a "cp cap or bust" game. A few vets wanting >500cp players for vet content doesn't make it anything close to a 720 level game, especially because all gear is capped at 160cp, and all content is balanced around 160cp (norm), 300cp (standard vet), or 500cp (vet hard mode). Yes I'm aware the lack of meaningful mechanics in non-DLCs make many level suggestions redundant if you're skilled at the game.

All solo content is easily cleared at any level, and cp160 is enough to run nTrials even with a pug group.

The amount of XP to go from 0 to 720 is higher than it has ever been period.

No, it's not. If you've ever been above the cap, you'd know that is a flat out lie. If you wanted to go 0 - 720 back when the cap was 501, it would have cost several times what it costs now. The instant you get over the current spending cap, the cost increases by something around 50%. If you want to get to 720, it will be far faster and more painless than when I got there. But, you don't. You just want to come on here, and whine about how you should be able to buy your maxed out character and then claim victory over the game, when you pull 8k DPS.

starkerealm · March 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

Just looking at a number with absolutely no understanding of how it's scaled will tell you nothing. It has never been a "cp cap or bust" game. A few vets wanting >500cp players for vet content doesn't make it anything close to a 720 level game, especially because all gear is capped at 160cp, and all content is balanced around 160cp (norm), 300cp (standard vet), or 500cp (vet hard mode). Yes I'm aware the lack of meaningful mechanics in non-DLCs make many level suggestions redundant if you're skilled at the game.

Vet Hard Mode is calibrated for 600, not 501.

Let's be honest, when you see someone saying you need a CP threshold other than 160, you're interacting with someone who doesn't understand how the game works, and they're looking for a carry.

Someone's CP won't tell you if they can clear vet content. They can start clearing vet at CR10, if they know what they're doing, and you can get clogged up on stumbling blocks with 720s who never learned the game.

How well you clear the dungeon up to that point can tell you if your party is up to HM, but that's not something you can predict based on their CP. You need to see them in action, and get a feel for their ability to manage and clear content.

If someone, like @Knowledge, is telling you that your CP matters, do not listen to them. They're looking for a carry. Specifically, in this case, Knowledge, you're looking to get a carry from your own CP. ESO does not work that way.

Knowledge · March 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Just looking at a number with absolutely no understanding of how it's scaled will tell you nothing. It has never been a "cp cap or bust" game. A few vets wanting >500cp players for vet content doesn't make it anything close to a 720 level game, especially because all gear is capped at 160cp, and all content is balanced around 160cp (norm), 300cp (standard vet), or 500cp (vet hard mode). Yes I'm aware the lack of meaningful mechanics in non-DLCs make many level suggestions redundant if you're skilled at the game.

Vet Hard Mode is calibrated for 600, not 501.

Let's be honest, when you see someone saying you need a CP threshold other than 160, you're interacting with someone who doesn't understand how the game works, and they're looking for a carry.

Someone's CP won't tell you if they can clear vet content. They can start clearing vet at CR10, if they know what they're doing, and you can get clogged up on stumbling blocks with 720s who never learned the game.

How well you clear the dungeon up to that point can tell you if your party is up to HM, but that's not something you can predict based on their CP. You need to see them in action, and get a feel for their ability to manage and clear content.

If someone, like @Knowledge, is telling you that your CP matters, do not listen to them. They're looking for a carry. Specifically, in this case, Knowledge, you're looking to get a carry from your own CP. ESO does not work that way.

If someones CP doesn't make them any better or worse why not allow them to catch up faster?

starkerealm · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

Just looking at a number with absolutely no understanding of how it's scaled will tell you nothing. It has never been a "cp cap or bust" game. A few vets wanting >500cp players for vet content doesn't make it anything close to a 720 level game, especially because all gear is capped at 160cp, and all content is balanced around 160cp (norm), 300cp (standard vet), or 500cp (vet hard mode). Yes I'm aware the lack of meaningful mechanics in non-DLCs make many level suggestions redundant if you're skilled at the game.

Vet Hard Mode is calibrated for 600, not 501.

Let's be honest, when you see someone saying you need a CP threshold other than 160, you're interacting with someone who doesn't understand how the game works, and they're looking for a carry.

Someone's CP won't tell you if they can clear vet content. They can start clearing vet at CR10, if they know what they're doing, and you can get clogged up on stumbling blocks with 720s who never learned the game.

How well you clear the dungeon up to that point can tell you if your party is up to HM, but that's not something you can predict based on their CP. You need to see them in action, and get a feel for their ability to manage and clear content.

If someone, like @Knowledge, is telling you that your CP matters, do not listen to them. They're looking for a carry. Specifically, in this case, Knowledge, you're looking to get a carry from your own CP. ESO does not work that way.

If someones CP doesn't make them any better or worse why not allow them to catch up faster?

The game already allows you to catch up faster.

Daedric_NB_187 · March 2018

I don't care whether or not they make it for sale in the crown store. Bad players will still be bad players regardless. Other games do it and it has no effect on them. Me personally, I'd rather they just make enlightenment permanently on once you hit 50.

Knowledge · March 2018

Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »

I don't care whether or not they make it for sale in the crown store. Bad players will still be bad players regardless. Other games do it and it has no effect on them. Me personally, I'd rather they just make enlightenment permanently on once you hit 50.

I agree. At least permanent enlightenment to CP 690 (old cap).

Something else that isn't really being explored here is the fact that content isn't gated around CP but is built around CP, which is backwards and creates issues.

If for instance, you HAD to have CP 500 to do a Trial and CP 600 to do a Vet trial this discussion wouldn't really be going on. Those would be the levels you would need to get to, to do the content. It's like a player in WoW being level 110 and they then allow you to have another player in a raid (current tier) or Mythic+ dungeon that is level 80, it doesn't make sense. (Which is why they don't. It would be unfair.)

The comparison of CP to "levels" may not seem like an applicable argument but CP to me are like levels. They raise your stats as you gain them just like a level would albeit at a slower rate (less per CP).

We have the best gear gated behind CP 160 and content built around CP 300 yet the content doesn't require those CP to enter it which makes no sense.

Why gate gear behind CP 160 and then nothing is gated between CP 160 and CP 720 which is a massive jump in damage reduction, damage output, and sustain.

It would only make sense to lock content behind a CP wall. Sure the CP won't make you good but CP will make the content easier.