Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? Should we be able to buy them?

dazee · March 2018

as someone who has only 260 some CP still, I say NO extra catch up mechanics, and especially not allowing people to buy it.

rustic_potato · March 2018

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

starkerealm · March 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

A believe you said it best, "Lol this is extremely misleading."

The first 120 or so CP is huge. Maybe the first 180. After that, the actual benefit drops off sharply. In many cases, the difference between a CR160 and a CR720 is going to be less than 5%, and while that is significant in its own ways, that's not the threshold between having to deal with mechanics two times or three times. Especially given that in many situations, simply being at 160 will be enough to burn through said mechanics, assuming the DPS know what they're doing. Note: "know what they're doing," not, "have inflated stats allowing them to ignore mechanics."

Merlin13KAGL · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

So, since your argument is that new people should be able to go immediately to end game content, and apparently CP's are the magic "I win" in that content, perhaps you could prove your point?

Take 11 other new people onto the PTS, make template characters.

They'll have golded out BiS gear and all the CP's you could ever ask for.

Feel free to provide video proof of vMoL and vAS clears. We'll wait...

This whole thing is about a perceived rush to endgame, and the only result in players absolutely not ready for end game.

There is far less content that requires max anything than the content that actually does. Get there when you get there. Scaling will ensure there is plenty to do along the way.

rustic_potato · March 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

A believe you said it best, "Lol this is extremely misleading."

The first 120 or so CP is huge. Maybe the first 180. After that, the actual benefit drops off sharply. In many cases, the difference between a CR160 and a CR720 is going to be less than 5%, and while that is significant in its own ways, that's not the threshold between having to deal with mechanics two times or three times. Especially given that in many situations, simply being at 160 will be enough to burn through said mechanics, assuming the DPS know what they're doing. Note: "know what they're doing," not, "have inflated stats allowing them to ignore mechanics."

If you can hit a 40k parse selfbuffed at CP160 on a 6 mill skele I will accept your argument. Hell you wont even be able to hit 30k because you will run out of resources from lack of CP. The less than 5% is an number you pulled straight out of your ass. 5% in every tree adds up. Also you just proved you have no idea how the end game raiding community works.

starkerealm · March 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

A believe you said it best, "Lol this is extremely misleading."

The first 120 or so CP is huge. Maybe the first 180. After that, the actual benefit drops off sharply. In many cases, the difference between a CR160 and a CR720 is going to be less than 5%, and while that is significant in its own ways, that's not the threshold between having to deal with mechanics two times or three times. Especially given that in many situations, simply being at 160 will be enough to burn through said mechanics, assuming the DPS know what they're doing. Note: "know what they're doing," not, "have inflated stats allowing them to ignore mechanics."

If you can hit a 40k parse selfbuffed at CP160 on a 6 mill skele I will accept your argument. Hell you wont even be able to hit 30k because you will run out of resources from lack of CP. The less than 5% is an number you pulled straight out of your ass. 5% in every tree adds up. Also you just proved you have no idea how the end game raiding community works.

If you can pull 25k on a skeleton, you can clear any content in the game comfortably. Pulling 40k just means you can carry a Skyreach baby on your back, up hill in the snow, both ways, to the twins.

rustic_potato · March 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

A believe you said it best, "Lol this is extremely misleading."

The first 120 or so CP is huge. Maybe the first 180. After that, the actual benefit drops off sharply. In many cases, the difference between a CR160 and a CR720 is going to be less than 5%, and while that is significant in its own ways, that's not the threshold between having to deal with mechanics two times or three times. Especially given that in many situations, simply being at 160 will be enough to burn through said mechanics, assuming the DPS know what they're doing. Note: "know what they're doing," not, "have inflated stats allowing them to ignore mechanics."

If you can hit a 40k parse selfbuffed at CP160 on a 6 mill skele I will accept your argument. Hell you wont even be able to hit 30k because you will run out of resources from lack of CP. The less than 5% is an number you pulled straight out of your ass. 5% in every tree adds up. Also you just proved you have no idea how the end game raiding community works.

If you can pull 25k on a skeleton, you can clear any content in the game comfortably. Pulling 40k just means you can carry a Skyreach baby on your back, up hill in the snow, both ways, to the twins.

Lol true for Craglorn and vMOL if the player has absolute mastery of the mechanics. However, when you are pushing for scores no sane raid leader will take someone pulling 25k even if he has absolute mastery of the trial mechanics. Why? because someone doing 40k doesn't need to be aware of mechanics as bosses die before mechanics become a focus.

starkerealm · March 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

A believe you said it best, "Lol this is extremely misleading."

The first 120 or so CP is huge. Maybe the first 180. After that, the actual benefit drops off sharply. In many cases, the difference between a CR160 and a CR720 is going to be less than 5%, and while that is significant in its own ways, that's not the threshold between having to deal with mechanics two times or three times. Especially given that in many situations, simply being at 160 will be enough to burn through said mechanics, assuming the DPS know what they're doing. Note: "know what they're doing," not, "have inflated stats allowing them to ignore mechanics."

If you can hit a 40k parse selfbuffed at CP160 on a 6 mill skele I will accept your argument. Hell you wont even be able to hit 30k because you will run out of resources from lack of CP. The less than 5% is an number you pulled straight out of your ass. 5% in every tree adds up. Also you just proved you have no idea how the end game raiding community works.

If you can pull 25k on a skeleton, you can clear any content in the game comfortably. Pulling 40k just means you can carry a Skyreach baby on your back, up hill in the snow, both ways, to the twins.

Lol true for Craglorn and vMOL if the player has absolute mastery of the mechanics. However, when you are pushing for scores no sane raid leader will take someone pulling 25k even if he has absolute mastery of the trial mechanics. Why? because someone doing 40k doesn't need to be aware of mechanics as bosses die before mechanics become a focus.

And that's how you get wipes on the twins, because your amazing 40k DerPS wandered across the candle line, or won't ****ing move when you need to rotate, because they're just too good to need to know the mechanics.

*head desks*

phatmhat · March 2018

So basically to compete you have to have the time. Time = win. Less time = less winning.

Playing video games in your mom's house so that you have more cp and better gear, so that you more easily win = earning your win.

Playing on the weekend for a few hours, after taking care of job and family, and going up against people a hundred cp levels above you and in much better gear, and being disadvantaged by such = not earning your win.

Sounds like a sucky setup. You want to play pick up games against people who are playing pick up games. And you end up playing a game vs pros - pros mostly because they put in time.

Beardimus · March 2018

Unreal this thread rattles on. Flat no to buying XP/CP

Jura23 · March 2018

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

OMG several weeks !?!? That's just outrageous to ask players to actually play the game to achieve something.

Runefang · March 2018

Just wait for the next patch. You'll get a catch up mechanic in the Imperial City.

Priyasekarssk · March 2018

starkerealm wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

A believe you said it best, "Lol this is extremely misleading."

The first 120 or so CP is huge. Maybe the first 180. After that, the actual benefit drops off sharply. In many cases, the difference between a CR160 and a CR720 is going to be less than 5%, and while that is significant in its own ways, that's not the threshold between having to deal with mechanics two times or three times. Especially given that in many situations, simply being at 160 will be enough to burn through said mechanics, assuming the DPS know what they're doing. Note: "know what they're doing," not, "have inflated stats allowing them to ignore mechanics."

CP difference between CP 160 and CP720 is huge. It can be argued only 5 percent, but it reality its difference between life and death , even for same skill level. I see my dps almost 20-30 percent in dps increase from CP 160 to CP 300 . Also , my sustain increased drastically and solo 4 man dungeons comfortably. I do undaunted pledges alone in normal dungeons , if dont get dps slot for long time. I more or less using same mechanic and skill set, but gear level increased from blue to purple , same gear set. Thats it I dont have any legendary weapons or gear.

I dont agree for CP packs. Already enough , no more. Increase experience gained and enlightenment period. Thats suffice.

wenchmore420b14_ESO · March 2018

Jura23 wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

OMG several weeks !?!? That's just outrageous to ask players to actually play the game to achieve something.

Lol... I know right!
Took me a year to reach Vet 16!!
Glad I'm not one of the " I want it Now" crowd.

Knowledge · March 2018

I love how the main argument is "CP doesn't matter all content is balanced around 300 CP" but despite it supposedly not mattering several posters vehemently oppose giving others the ability to acquire this so-called meaningless stat enhancer that is Champion Points.

LanceFoxMcCloud · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

I love how the main argument is "CP doesn't matter all content is balanced around 300 CP" but despite it supposedly not mattering several posters vehemently oppose giving others the ability to acquire this so-called meaningless stat enhancer that is Champion Points.

That's not the main arguement, it's just the only one you seem to be able to attempt a counter at. You convienently choose to ignore every other point that has been handed to you on sliver platters, numerous times.

As another member pointed out with a meme already; if you put as much time and dedication into playing as you do trolling here, you'd be at cp cap already.

Knowledge · March 2018

LanceFoxMcCloud wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

I love how the main argument is "CP doesn't matter all content is balanced around 300 CP" but despite it supposedly not mattering several posters vehemently oppose giving others the ability to acquire this so-called meaningless stat enhancer that is Champion Points.

That's not the main arguement, it's just the only one you seem to be able to attempt a counter at. You convienently choose to ignore every other point that has been handed to you on sliver platters, numerous times.

As another member pointed out with a meme already; if you put as much time and dedication into playing as you do trolling here, you'd be at cp cap already.

How do you know I am not at CP cap? That was a wild assumption. Oh, I get it. Anyone wanting to make a suggestion about the game is victim of the suggested problem.

TheCyberDruid · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

How do you know I am not at CP cap? That was a wild assumption. Oh, I get it. Anyone wanting to make a suggestion about the game is victim of the suggested problem.

Please do post a picture of your true Robin Hood-ness then! Let's all see that you fight for those who have big wallets and little time without any interest of your own.

Wayshuba · March 2018

Eeeh.

The only CP that really matters is 160. Once you can get top gear, all the rest is a bonus. I have been playing for about 15 months now and am only at CP571. Not in any rush to reach cap as it doesn't stop me from playing any content in the game. Heck, I forget about CP so often, that I frequently earn 12-15 points before I even remember to allocate them.

Once you hit CP160, the rest is all gravy. Don't worry about it and just look at it as a way to get a few small perks along the way.

Knowledge · March 2018

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

How do you know I am not at CP cap? That was a wild assumption. Oh, I get it. Anyone wanting to make a suggestion about the game is victim of the suggested problem.

Please do post a picture of your true Robin Hood-ness then! Let's all see that you fight for those who have big wallets and little time without any interest of your own.

The point of this thread is to bring up solutions to a problem. There's two extremes in the title. "Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? " and then " Should we be able to buy them? "

The purpose of these questions is to bring forth discussion regarding the CP system getting excessively steep for newer and more casual players. Having the option to buy CP is an extreme solution and not necessarily the right solution. It is merely the extreme spectrum of the possibilities of solutions to bring forth discussion.

As others have indicated, including some veterans, the CP grind is steep on a new or fresh account. There have been alternative recommendations such as permanent enlightenment until the old cap is reached (690 CP).

Others have said CP doesn't make you any better but are against anyone being able to gain CP at a quicker pace. Why do they care if they argue CP is not really a big factor?

Maryal · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

TheCyberDruid wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

How do you know I am not at CP cap? That was a wild assumption. Oh, I get it. Anyone wanting to make a suggestion about the game is victim of the suggested problem.

Please do post a picture of your true Robin Hood-ness then! Let's all see that you fight for those who have big wallets and little time without any interest of your own.

The point of this thread is to bring up solutions to a problem. There's two extremes in the title. "Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? " and then " Should we be able to buy them? "

The purpose of these questions is to bring forth discussion regarding the CP system getting excessively steep for newer and more casual players. Having the option to buy CP is an extreme solution and not necessarily the right solution. It is merely the extreme spectrum of the possibilities of solutions to bring forth discussion.

As others have indicated, including some veterans, the CP grind is steep on a new or fresh account. There have been alternative recommendations such as permanent enlightenment until the old cap is reached (690 CP).

Others have said CP doesn't make you any better but are against anyone being able to gain CP at a quicker pace. Why do they care if they argue CP is not really a big factor?

The difference between 300 spendable CP and 700 spendable CP is big ... both in gameplay and in a player's self-esteem. MMOs are competitive by nature. Like it or not, CP is also a status symbol and it matters the most to people who have less than the maximum spendable amount. Having your CP level displayed above your head doesn't help the situation either.

The gap between no-CP new players and those with the maximum spendable CP is already large and continues to grow with each patch. As this disparity grows, so will the level of discouragement new players feel and we will see more and more 'discouraged' new players leave the game.

What have other long-running mmos done? MMOs like FFIV and WOW both offer their own versions of 'paid gap-closers'. These are paid catch-up mechanics that allow a new player to greatly reduce the level-gap, but not eliminate it completely.

It was a lot easier for a new player to reach maximum spendable CP back when CP caps were first introduced (the gap was much smaller). I really don't see a problem with a paid mechanic that offers new players the option to catch-up enough so that they can attain that same gap size .

Jhalin · March 2018

I've played ESO seriously for only a year and a half (from Nov. of 2016), and even through 18 hour college semesters and a summer with internet that cut out at least five time a day, I'm already right at the new cap.

You've never needed to grind out cp to get it fast. If you play frequently you will hit cap before you know it. If high levels scare you out of playing the game, then MMOs are probably not the right genre for you.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

lol eve online you cant compare, you buy ur way to win on that, plus even if u do buy a good ship, the russian guilds gang up on you

rustic_potato · March 2018

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

lol eve online you cant compare, you buy ur way to win on that, plus even if u do buy a good ship, the russian guilds gang up on you

LOL this is the funniest comment on this thread. You can win EVE?

Knowledge · March 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

lol eve online you cant compare, you buy ur way to win on that, plus even if u do buy a good ship, the russian guilds gang up on you

LOL this is the funniest comment on this thread. You can win EVE?

Maybe The Mittani can but that's like... one person.

rustic_potato · March 2018

People here are failing to see a important point. The amount of XP needed to get to the 720 CP cap is the same as the amount of XP it was needed to reach the 501 initial CP Cap. As long as you started the grind after they capped and scaled CP the grind is the same to get to cap.

I was lucky I got my 1000+ CP on EU account and 400+ on NA before they scaled it (the system was broken af back then) and even then grinding the last part on my NA when I switched servers almost drove me to quit the game.

So for someone like me who had already experienced everything the game had to offer, having to grind again on a new server was mind numbing. Having a CP pack that would have taken me to cap would have been awesome.

rustic_potato · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

As the champion point cap is gradually raised the casual players are left feeling like they are in a never-ending grind to catch-up. Why not offer an alternative similar to EVE Online? EVE Online allows you to purchase skillpoints for your character. Why not allow players in ESO to buy "Champion Packs" on the Crown Store similar to mount speed and inventory space?

lol eve online you cant compare, you buy ur way to win on that, plus even if u do buy a good ship, the russian guilds gang up on you

LOL this is the funniest comment on this thread. You can win EVE?

Maybe The Mittani can but that's like... one person.

He doesn't even log in to the game apart from major events. Aryth maybe? He is the richest Goon that I know of.

AlienatedGoat · March 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

The point of this thread is to bring up solutions to a problem. There's two extremes in the title. "Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? " and then " Should we be able to buy them? "

No, like most of your threads, the point of this thread is for you to find validation in your ideas. Your mind is clearly already made up and you have no interest in actual constructive discussion about any perceived problems. You only want to defend your ideas here, not discuss them. There have been many, many actual points made about why your ideas are unlikely to work, and you choose to ignore them in favor of responding to low hanging fruit.

Judas Helviaryn · March 2018

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

The point of this thread is to bring up solutions to a problem. There's two extremes in the title. "Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? " and then " Should we be able to buy them? "

No, like most of your threads, the point of this thread is for you to find validation in your ideas. Your mind is clearly already made up and you have no interest in actual constructive discussion about any perceived problems. You only want to defend your ideas here, not discuss them. There have been many, many actual points made about why your ideas are unlikely to work, and you choose to ignore them in favor of responding to low hanging fruit.

So much this.

FleetwoodSmack · March 2018

rustic_potato wrote: »

IndyWendieGo wrote: »

smacky wrote: »

I think one major issue would arise from such a thing occuring.

You would all of a sudden have these casual players, joining Vet dungeons with no idea how the mechanics work, with their team members expecting that a CP720 knows these things.

If you said, hey I know I'm CP720, but it's only my second dungeon, they would kick you from the group, as they would when they realise you are playing as a healer with no idea what you are doing.

Example:

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

I don't like all of the OP's ideas, but I agree that it takes too long to reach the CP cap. I'm over 900 CP on my main account, but I just started an alt account, and it's a real eye-opener!

The first 90 CP come really fast, but after that you kind of hit a wall, and things only get slower as you go. My current grind includes Training trait on weapons and armor , ALL golded out. I'm using the 50% drinks at all times. I tried the 100% and 150% drinks for a while, but they're just too expensive.

I currently make well over 1,000,000 XP per hour, but it's not nearly enough. At the rate I'm going (I'm at 240 CP after around 10 days), it's going to be several WEEKS before I hit the cap. These people saying you can do it in "4 days" are full of beans.

I don't think they need to sell CP outright, but they could definitely sell Enlightenment. They should also make the XP scrolls, the XP drinks and the Training trait boosts all MULTIPLICATIVE. I feel a bit cheated that they are additive!

Also, none of what I'm suggesting would be "P2W" or whatever. It would just be a time saver like the horse lessons.

Now, you are an experienced player (I know you soloed dungeons when they were hard). How does 240 CP work for getting through content? Are you finding it exceptionally hard? Impossible? What kind of end-game content have you tried?

Even if they felt it wasn't "too bad" that doesn't excuse the condition of Champion Points.

Nor does it resolve the following:
Elitism against low CP players

Lower DPS due to not grinding for 150 hours.

Worse offense and defense in PVP for not grinding for 150 hours

An inexcusable grind that even gives Black Desert Online a run for its money.

I play Black Desert Online. I know all about the grind. I've never had to grind in ESO. I just played the game as I wanted to at the time. So no. That's not an argument.

As for your other points, Elitism against low CP players may be a thing, but that's a player problem, and I think most people are ok with someone who is not max CP if they show they know what they are doing. Of course, one always has the option to join a guild and play with people who know them. I have several friends who left the game a while ago and would be way below max CP if they came back. But they are good players and I would go with them into any content they wished to do. And I am sure we would get through it with no problem.

What problems is this lower DPS causing? If the game is balanced at around 300 CP and you are able to clear content, does it matter? Are you going for Leaderboards?

PvP has both a no-CP campaign and a sub-50 campaign. Did you know that there is a sizeable contingent of players that only play the sub-50 campaign because they enjoy the PvP there more? They recreate their characters over and over again when they hit 50 and get kicked out. So a low CP player does have alternatives. They are playing in the CP campaigns because they want to.

Not all content is balanced around 300 CP. The wiki states "600 CP" for Vet Asylum Sanctorium. So, if you wanted to do that with your friends they'd have to sit out or get carried. http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Asylum+Sanctorium

Aetherian Archive calls for 531+ http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Aetherian+Archive

The same for Maw: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Maw+of+Lorkhaj

Did you think they just raise the CP cap for fun?

People getting to the max level with no game experience just doesn't bode well.

It's also funny that fextralife was linked when there's far more better guides that have been updated specifically for CP 300 groups as well as hardmode mechanics when most of these trials have been here since Craglorn was introduced. Also with the fact that they say CP 600 on vAS and not have any bit of a walkthrough when vAS has been in there since last October. I think they (Fextralife) need more of a catchup mechanic than the CP system.

I'd also like to extrapolate with the CP vs game experience thing with a list so that the OP can understand why multiple people have stated this as well as why exactly it won't save them.
CP doesn't save you in vSO with the Mantikora and her Culminating Slam. If your group doesn't block, that puts more Bleed damage on your group.

CP doesn't save you in vAA HM against the Mage when the Atronachs are wiping your group when they should've been a priority to begin with.

CP doesn't save you in vHRC HM when you use the Fossilize synergy.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL with the Twins.

CP doesn't save you in vMoL HM with the back (having to send multiple sets of runners each time), not to mention that debuff WILL spread to other people. Which if you do that, congratulations- you just potentially wiped part of the group.

CP doesn't save you in vHoF with several bosses and their mechanics. There's just too many to name.

CP doesn't save you from the various difficulties of vAS.

For those that are wanting a booster CP pack, that won't save you from the inevitable. Experience points doesn't mean you're an experienced player. If you're wiping to mechanics, the CP won't be your Hail Mary. Any legitimate competitive trial guild will see right through the number of CPs you have. They'll test you on your rotation before they even put you in try outs. They'll try to work with you in getting where you need to be, which CP doesn't teach that. People can romanticize the idea that CP is the solution for their ESO deaths, but the fact of the matter is;

CP doesn't teach you to learn from your mistakes. It doesn't make you more knowledgeable. It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics. I rarely if ever see people require CP for trials. I see them require titles instead because anyone can get to X amount of CP. That doesn't determine your skill. The only time I've seen requirements? Loot runs. Sometimes Leaderboards, but again- CP doesn't determine your skill. Titles do. Even then, they'll have you usually parse on a dummy to see your rotation and if you bought your account/title? They'll most likely see right through that and just send you out the door.

So before you start blaming your deaths on the lack of CP, try looking at how you died and what mechanic was around you. PvP included, though I get that Cyrodiil isn't really indicative of what actually happens due to the performance of their servers. Though PvPing without CP? That's a sobering experience.

Lol this is extremely misleading.

CP from the red tree reduces the damage you take from all the mechanics you mentioned.
Blue tree CP determines the difference between doing the mechanics x times or x+1 or maybe even x+2 times.
Green tree CP determines the difference between having enough resources to defend or attack.

For casual gameplay CP doesn't matter. If you want to play casually why are you even on this thread? When you want to absolutely min max your gameplay even the slightest advantage matters.

How does CP actually teach you anything? I clearly said "It just delays the inevitable if you're incapable of adapting to game mechanics." If you're bad, CP isn't going to save you, period. I could care less what the benefits someone has. If they're incapable of understanding proper mechanics, they ain't gonna understand how CP works. That's not misleading. That's stating that people are stupid and think that CP will save them. Does it give you benefits? Yes. Does it have damage mitigation/boosts? Yes. But it doesn't make you a good player. If you can't perform mechanics, the Blue Tree won't deduct how many times you do things. That's misleading. Since you're wanting to run that route, I can see that it's not going to get through to you about how buying CP won't save your bad gameplay.

Phage wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

The point of this thread is to bring up solutions to a problem. There's two extremes in the title. "Should there be a CP catch up mechanic? " and then " Should we be able to buy them? "

No, like most of your threads, the point of this thread is for you to find validation in your ideas. Your mind is clearly already made up and you have no interest in actual constructive discussion about any perceived problems. You only want to defend your ideas here, not discuss them. There have been many, many actual points made about why your ideas are unlikely to work, and you choose to ignore them in favor of responding to low hanging fruit.

Oh my god, this. TBH, threads/people posting them like this is why the game takes the nosedives it does.