ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've long since dropped this from my bar and if other templars were mindful about efficiency, they have too.

People who think this ability is still powerful or that there are magplars "spamming" this all over cyrodiil either haven't been paying attention or maybe just came back to ESO after a loooooong break.

I don't even use it on my PvE healer. It's only good it 2 stages of vMA.

Eh, seems fine to me honestly. Good for PvE damage beyond a certain point. Decent (But a little awkward because of the cost to usage) in PvP, generally being used for maybe 1/2 tick smites. It does still get rather infuriatingly spammed by 30k health low base damage healbots along with backlash and total dark.

I tried Total Dark for the past two weeks, and took it off a couple days ago.

What a horrible skill. And the problem still lies with it being tied to stun immunity.

A huge amount of time the skill simply fails to go off because the target is immune, smart targets simply break free when it does work wasting the chance for a CC (not that Templar has a whole lot of CC to choose from), and it only works with any kind of efficiency against people who are bad or unfamiliar with it, who are easy to kill anyways with other skills.

CC immunity pots make it even more useless rendering the skill unusable for 18 seconds at a time. Garbage.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've long since dropped this from my bar and if other templars were mindful about efficiency, they have too.

People who think this ability is still powerful or that there are magplars "spamming" this all over cyrodiil either haven't been paying attention or maybe just came back to ESO after a loooooong break.

I don't even use it on my PvE healer. It's only good it 2 stages of vMA.

Eh, seems fine to me honestly. Good for PvE damage beyond a certain point. Decent (But a little awkward because of the cost to usage) in PvP, generally being used for maybe 1/2 tick smites. It does still get rather infuriatingly spammed by 30k health low base damage healbots along with backlash and total dark.

Well, you did strike through the templar in your signature and dubbed it a "craftplar." It can't be all that good.

Skills and abilities seem fine when it's not people's mains. People who have played the class since forever know the subtitles of what makes a skill worth slotting and useful or not worth slotting because something else is better, more efficient, more versatile, etc.

I'm also not sure what is "infuriatingly spammed" by low base damage healbots. I am happy when they do this. It's not infuriating at all. They are wasting their resources on a low value skill that has no status or side effects, they aren't healing other people (which is what they ought to be doing since they are 'heal bots'), and they aren't doing something that is more dangerous or disruptive like throwing javelin and stunning me, hitting me with the reflective light and snaring me, debuffing me with Elemental Drain, etc.

Joy_Division wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've long since dropped this from my bar and if other templars were mindful about efficiency, they have too.

People who think this ability is still powerful or that there are magplars "spamming" this all over cyrodiil either haven't been paying attention or maybe just came back to ESO after a loooooong break.

I don't even use it on my PvE healer. It's only good it 2 stages of vMA.

Eh, seems fine to me honestly. Good for PvE damage beyond a certain point. Decent (But a little awkward because of the cost to usage) in PvP, generally being used for maybe 1/2 tick smites. It does still get rather infuriatingly spammed by 30k health low base damage healbots along with backlash and total dark.

Well, you did strike through the templar in your signature and dubbed it a "craftplar." It can't be all that good.

Skills and abilities seem fine when it's not people's mains. People who have played the class since forever know the subtitles of what makes a skill worth slotting and useful or not worth slotting because something else is better, more efficient, more versatile, etc.

I'm also not sure what is "infuriatingly spammed" by low base damage healbots. I am happy when they do this. It's not infuriating at all. They are wasting their resources on a low value skill that has no status or side effects, they aren't healing other people (which is what they ought to be doing since they are 'heal bots'), and they aren't doing something that is more dangerous or disruptive like throwing javelin and stunning me, hitting me with the reflective light and snaring me, debuffing me with Elemental Drain, etc.

Nah, don't get me wrong magicka templar has been nerfed pretty awfully, it doesn't have much lockdown and it feels super 2D, hit and heal. I hope they make one morph of eclipse give miss chance, or even revamp the bad channel heal. Even purge is super situational post the housing market cost increase. It was my main for quite a while, and is technically older than my current DK, hence having all the crafting.

I still think beam is a solid ability, a lot worse than before but not bad per say. It deals decent damage beyond a certain point and feels fun as already said. The "spamming" isn't me saying it should be nerfed. Not nearly, I wish templar gets buffed in many ways. Its just the same as wrath spammers when being Xv1'd. Because you know with a couple of beams on you that if you get bursted or a stray snipe it could be good night.

Minno wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've long since dropped this from my bar and if other templars were mindful about efficiency, they have too.

People who think this ability is still powerful or that there are magplars "spamming" this all over cyrodiil either haven't been paying attention or maybe just came back to ESO after a loooooong break.

I don't even use it on my PvE healer. It's only good it 2 stages of vMA.

Eh, seems fine to me honestly. Good for PvE damage beyond a certain point. Decent (But a little awkward because of the cost to usage) in PvP, generally being used for maybe 1/2 tick smites. It does still get rather infuriatingly spammed by 30k health low base damage healbots along with backlash and total dark.

Well, you did strike through the templar in your signature and dubbed it a "craftplar." It can't be all that good.

Skills and abilities seem fine when it's not people's mains. People who have played the class since forever know the subtitles of what makes a skill worth slotting and useful or not worth slotting because something else is better, more efficient, more versatile, etc.

I'm also not sure what is "infuriatingly spammed" by low base damage healbots. I am happy when they do this. It's not infuriating at all. They are wasting their resources on a low value skill that has no status or side effects, they aren't healing other people (which is what they ought to be doing since they are 'heal bots'), and they aren't doing something that is more dangerous or disruptive like throwing javelin and stunning me, hitting me with the reflective light and snaring me, debuffing me with Elemental Drain, etc.

Nah, don't get me wrong magicka templar has been nerfed pretty awfully, it doesn't have much lockdown and it feels super 2D, hit and heal. I hope they make one morph of eclipse give miss chance, or even revamp the bad channel heal. Even purge is super situational post the housing market cost increase. It was my main for quite a while, and is technically older than my current DK, hence having all the crafting.

I still think beam is a solid ability, a lot worse than before but not bad per say. It deals decent damage beyond a certain point and feels fun as already said. The "spamming" isn't me saying it should be nerfed. Not nearly, I wish templar gets buffed in many ways. Its just the same as wrath spammers when being Xv1'd. Because you know with a couple of beams on you that if you get bursted or a stray snipe it could be good night.

Magplar needs major evasion. It would fit better on radiant ward or radiant aura.

Next patch Templar will be getting the crit DMG passive fixed so it doesn't impact heals. That's going to be a fun patch lol

I don't think magplar needs Evasion or any other pure defensive buff really. A mobility tool would be great though, like a few seconds of root/snare immunity on one of the Ritual morphs.

I used to lobby for Minor Expedition but then Wrobel gave it to Stamsorc and said it would be their snowflake buff. So that clearly won't be happening.

Solariken wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've long since dropped this from my bar and if other templars were mindful about efficiency, they have too.

People who think this ability is still powerful or that there are magplars "spamming" this all over cyrodiil either haven't been paying attention or maybe just came back to ESO after a loooooong break.

I don't even use it on my PvE healer. It's only good it 2 stages of vMA.

Eh, seems fine to me honestly. Good for PvE damage beyond a certain point. Decent (But a little awkward because of the cost to usage) in PvP, generally being used for maybe 1/2 tick smites. It does still get rather infuriatingly spammed by 30k health low base damage healbots along with backlash and total dark.

Well, you did strike through the templar in your signature and dubbed it a "craftplar." It can't be all that good.

Skills and abilities seem fine when it's not people's mains. People who have played the class since forever know the subtitles of what makes a skill worth slotting and useful or not worth slotting because something else is better, more efficient, more versatile, etc.

I'm also not sure what is "infuriatingly spammed" by low base damage healbots. I am happy when they do this. It's not infuriating at all. They are wasting their resources on a low value skill that has no status or side effects, they aren't healing other people (which is what they ought to be doing since they are 'heal bots'), and they aren't doing something that is more dangerous or disruptive like throwing javelin and stunning me, hitting me with the reflective light and snaring me, debuffing me with Elemental Drain, etc.

Nah, don't get me wrong magicka templar has been nerfed pretty awfully, it doesn't have much lockdown and it feels super 2D, hit and heal. I hope they make one morph of eclipse give miss chance, or even revamp the bad channel heal. Even purge is super situational post the housing market cost increase. It was my main for quite a while, and is technically older than my current DK, hence having all the crafting.

I still think beam is a solid ability, a lot worse than before but not bad per say. It deals decent damage beyond a certain point and feels fun as already said. The "spamming" isn't me saying it should be nerfed. Not nearly, I wish templar gets buffed in many ways. Its just the same as wrath spammers when being Xv1'd. Because you know with a couple of beams on you that if you get bursted or a stray snipe it could be good night.

Magplar needs major evasion. It would fit better on radiant ward or radiant aura.

Next patch Templar will be getting the crit DMG passive fixed so it doesn't impact heals. That's going to be a fun patch lol

I don't think magplar needs Evasion or any other pure defensive buff really. A mobility tool would be great though, like a few seconds of root/snare immunity on one of the Ritual morphs.

I used to lobby for Minor Expedition but then Wrobel gave it to Stamsorc and said it would be their snowflake buff. So that clearly won't be happening.

They need expedition, evasion, healing nerfs reviewed and fixed, Empowering sweeps to actually hit hard and a way to CC.

Otherwise we aren't protecting much of a house.

You aren't gonna kill anything that has more then 25% hp with radiant.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've long since dropped this from my bar and if other templars were mindful about efficiency, they have too.

People who think this ability is still powerful or that there are magplars "spamming" this all over cyrodiil either haven't been paying attention or maybe just came back to ESO after a loooooong break.

I don't even use it on my PvE healer. It's only good it 2 stages of vMA.

Eh, seems fine to me honestly. Good for PvE damage beyond a certain point. Decent (But a little awkward because of the cost to usage) in PvP, generally being used for maybe 1/2 tick smites. It does still get rather infuriatingly spammed by 30k health low base damage healbots along with backlash and total dark.

Well, you did strike through the templar in your signature and dubbed it a "craftplar." It can't be all that good.

Skills and abilities seem fine when it's not people's mains. People who have played the class since forever know the subtitles of what makes a skill worth slotting and useful or not worth slotting because something else is better, more efficient, more versatile, etc.

I'm also not sure what is "infuriatingly spammed" by low base damage healbots. I am happy when they do this. It's not infuriating at all. They are wasting their resources on a low value skill that has no status or side effects, they aren't healing other people (which is what they ought to be doing since they are 'heal bots'), and they aren't doing something that is more dangerous or disruptive like throwing javelin and stunning me, hitting me with the reflective light and snaring me, debuffing me with Elemental Drain, etc.

Nah, don't get me wrong magicka templar has been nerfed pretty awfully, it doesn't have much lockdown and it feels super 2D, hit and heal. I hope they make one morph of eclipse give miss chance, or even revamp the bad channel heal. Even purge is super situational post the housing market cost increase. It was my main for quite a while, and is technically older than my current DK, hence having all the crafting.

I still think beam is a solid ability, a lot worse than before but not bad per say. It deals decent damage beyond a certain point and feels fun as already said. The "spamming" isn't me saying it should be nerfed. Not nearly, I wish templar gets buffed in many ways. Its just the same as wrath spammers when being Xv1'd. Because you know with a couple of beams on you that if you get bursted or a stray snipe it could be good night.

Magplar needs major evasion. It would fit better on radiant ward or radiant aura.

Next patch Templar will be getting the crit DMG passive fixed so it doesn't impact heals. That's going to be a fun patch lol

What's bugged about it?

Don't shoot the messenger

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, apologies for the confusion here. We actually had a fix for Hemorrhage in Update 17 (with Dragon Bones) so it now only procs off Critical Damage.

Then why does the templar passive, piercing spear, that does the same thing, add 10% crit hit damage, apply to heals? And the shadow mundas, it reads "increases your critical damage done by x" and it still applies to heals. What about the hemorrhage passive needed fixing but these did not?


And thanks for the clarification.

Piercing Spear shouldn't actually affect healing either; that will be adjusted in the next update.

Minno wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I've long since dropped this from my bar and if other templars were mindful about efficiency, they have too.

People who think this ability is still powerful or that there are magplars "spamming" this all over cyrodiil either haven't been paying attention or maybe just came back to ESO after a loooooong break.

I don't even use it on my PvE healer. It's only good it 2 stages of vMA.

Eh, seems fine to me honestly. Good for PvE damage beyond a certain point. Decent (But a little awkward because of the cost to usage) in PvP, generally being used for maybe 1/2 tick smites. It does still get rather infuriatingly spammed by 30k health low base damage healbots along with backlash and total dark.

Well, you did strike through the templar in your signature and dubbed it a "craftplar." It can't be all that good.

Skills and abilities seem fine when it's not people's mains. People who have played the class since forever know the subtitles of what makes a skill worth slotting and useful or not worth slotting because something else is better, more efficient, more versatile, etc.

I'm also not sure what is "infuriatingly spammed" by low base damage healbots. I am happy when they do this. It's not infuriating at all. They are wasting their resources on a low value skill that has no status or side effects, they aren't healing other people (which is what they ought to be doing since they are 'heal bots'), and they aren't doing something that is more dangerous or disruptive like throwing javelin and stunning me, hitting me with the reflective light and snaring me, debuffing me with Elemental Drain, etc.

Nah, don't get me wrong magicka templar has been nerfed pretty awfully, it doesn't have much lockdown and it feels super 2D, hit and heal. I hope they make one morph of eclipse give miss chance, or even revamp the bad channel heal. Even purge is super situational post the housing market cost increase. It was my main for quite a while, and is technically older than my current DK, hence having all the crafting.

I still think beam is a solid ability, a lot worse than before but not bad per say. It deals decent damage beyond a certain point and feels fun as already said. The "spamming" isn't me saying it should be nerfed. Not nearly, I wish templar gets buffed in many ways. Its just the same as wrath spammers when being Xv1'd. Because you know with a couple of beams on you that if you get bursted or a stray snipe it could be good night.

Magplar needs major evasion. It would fit better on radiant ward or radiant aura.

Next patch Templar will be getting the crit DMG passive fixed so it doesn't impact heals. That's going to be a fun patch lol

What's bugged about it?

Don't shoot the messenger

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys, apologies for the confusion here. We actually had a fix for Hemorrhage in Update 17 (with Dragon Bones) so it now only procs off Critical Damage.

Then why does the templar passive, piercing spear, that does the same thing, add 10% crit hit damage, apply to heals? And the shadow mundas, it reads "increases your critical damage done by x" and it still applies to heals. What about the hemorrhage passive needed fixing but these did not?


And thanks for the clarification.

Piercing Spear shouldn't actually affect healing either; that will be adjusted in the next update.

It really rubs me wrong that ZOS was so clueless about this. Literally anyone who has actually played a Templar or Nightblade knows those passives have always affected healing. I'm not arguing against fixing the bugs, but just... Smh over here

Minno wrote: »

They need expedition, evasion, healing nerfs reviewed and fixed, Empowering sweeps to actually hit hard and a way to CC.

Otherwise we aren't protecting much of a house.

Travel and cast times of damage skills will need to be revisited as well. I was trying to get a ranged magplar to work the recent couple days and it is just borderline unplayable. Way too slow and I'm not even talking about the mobility. With like 90% of the population either using wings constantly or whizzing around at super speed it's a challenge to land even Vampire's Bane before the target warps out of range and just forget about hitting a competent player with Dark Flare.

You know what chaps my hide about Templar? It can be a great tank but has no actual tools for tanking. The one cc the class has (two cc's were taken away from us) knocks enemies away. The removal of stamina regeneration while blocking also particularly harmed Templars because the baseline stamina regeneration is low on a Templar (compared to other classes) and the form of stamina return only comes by siphoning off the energy from the defeated. To make matters worse another Templar can actually rob you of this siphon now. So unlike almost any other class Templar no long has a means of restoring Stamina in a long block-fest despite having some block related skills built in. Its reflect is far inferior to DK wings. Templar ultimates are horrible. The pulse damage range of the Empowering Sweep and morphs (Aedric spear ulti) is 5m thereby making it easily avoidable (like most Templar skills). The minor defensive buff element of this skill is weak and has far less utility than something like Dragon Leap, Negate, Overload, etc. The Nova skill is only useful on flags in pvp, and has its use debuffing a boss in Trials. The Ultimate heal is garbage particularly when you compare to the Warden Trees. I am not knocking Wardens here by any stretch. In my view Templar should get the Warden-ization. Warden is essentially the dream of what Templar use to be. What ruined Templar in my view? Many forum warriors demanded it become a DD class. People are doing the same thing right now to DK and its infuriating to me. It would not bother me so much if skills like Radiant Destruction forced you to choose between Tank and Damage as options. In this way a player would have to pick whether they want to go the tanky road or the dd road. This is not what is happening though. Additionally, skills like Toppling Charge SHOULD have had a stamina morph all along. This skill screams Stamina but nope it remains an extremely buggy skill that Magplars generally would rather not slot in exchange for Shield Charge, because frankly that skill is more reliable and won't glitch you out near as much.

Do I have a bad attitude about this class? Yes. I have ceased dancing around the issue. I love the theme and style of Templar but I truly hate what they've done with it. The only reason I still play this character is that it is my first and was my main. I feel like by playing it though I am virtually slamming my head in a door over and over. Even if you can make kills with such a character. Even if you can get high dps. Even if you can tank (and who the hell wants a Templar Trial Tank). Even if you can Heal, the reality is other classes just get so much more bang for the buck. I honestly don't know what to say any more other than vent my frustrations in the hope that there just might be a Developer out there who gets it. No other class annoys me as much to play.

Other classes do get changes that bug me. The major shift in Nightblade for instance is infuriating. I had a fully golded out set of gear that worked beautifully a few patches ago on this character. That same build is now garbage, utter and complete garbage. I'm not happy about that but I do know there are ways to rebuild that character that are both fun and still fit theme. Templar though puts you on rails and tells you to shut up and play a healer. Frankly I don't appreciate it. The complaints I listed in this conversation are by no means comprehensive either. I could foam at the mouth for days talking about what annoys me within the class. I've posted on many forum topics about what is wrong with the class. I understand the points that Joy, Solariken, Minno and others have placed here. You guys have been fighting the good fight a long time and I'm not trying to undermine you. I'm just so damn frustrated here with how Templar fixes always turn out to make the class less interesting, less fun, and more narrowly defined in play style. Repentance is the most egregious change in this regard considering it pits Stamplars against one another but the way CP dots, Savagery, or even the bugginess of our bread and butter skill Biting Jabs/Sweeps works is just a slap in the face of all players. Radiant Destruction however represents the first major change to the class that really started to *** me off. It represented a complete redefinition of what Templar means to play and I can honestly say I'm still not happy about it.

Its just not strong enough to justify being stuck in a channel.

With that being said, when my opponent is at 10% health the tics are comparable to other executes.

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Its just not strong enough to justify being stuck in a channel.

With that being said, when my opponent is at 10% health the tics are comparable to other executes.

I think there's truth to this (Currently) but their mindset was that you use the magplar version of potl w/ the destruction skill to kick them while they're down. That's my theory of what they had in mind. That being said I still think they should give Radiant destruction a Blinding Flashes morph. I think they should give Toppling Charge a Stamina morph. There's a lot I think they should do. There's a lot that many of us think they do. Once upon a time they asked us what we thought. Rather than addressing our 100+ pages of concerns they were dead silent and went on to do something entirely different without even explaining why. I personally don't think the Devs actually like the Templar class, not the ones directly involved in designing the combat mechanics for it. They say we have a house but they build our skills so we can't maintain it. The Templar is actually less mobile than DK and its got a weaker house. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

Yeah @dodgehopper_ESO you touched some important points. Most of the veteran playerbase has and actively plays multiple classes by now and for the most part I think we advocate for Templar with big-picture balance in mind.

With that said, I totally expect some gentle tweaking of numbers from patch to patch that would sometimes result in nerfs. But ZOS has gone so far beyond that it's disgusting. They've neutered this class time and again, seemingly intent on making Templar LESS fun. I just don't get it - it's so counter to their own interests as developers and a business to alienate players like they have so many times.

Solariken wrote: »

Radiant Destruction has a base cost of 4590 magicka. Here are the other two magicka executes in the game:

Mage's Fury: 2430 magicka
Impale: 1890 magicka

Radiant is a great skill, but it has major risks attached that the others do not: namely limited mobility and interrupt opportunity.

I think Impale has an appropriate cost since it is the most difficult to land and often has to be spammed to be effective. Mage's Fury's cost is also fine, but that thing is jam-packed with utility and is by far the easiest to use and the most dangerous in PvP (not to mention the chance to proc an additional free execute lol).

It's also worth noting that, in general, it's better game design when offensive skills carry a lower cost than defensive skills. This is obviously not the case with regard to Radiant; it has a cost that is totally out of whack and should be reduced to be more on par with its magicka counterparts. ~2900 magicka would be much more appropriate IMO.

Would anyone like to take a crack at how this cost disparity is justified?

My troll answer for you.... Because it is a Templar skill. You may not have noticed this but most of your skills are wildly over priced. That breath of life.... It is not even a good heal, all overheal and no HOT, shield, or purge and how much does it cost? How about your ulti, nova? That *** is like 300 and it is ok but no permafrost (which is a heck of a lot cheaper I might add). Templar has been in a bad way since Morrowind or before. Deltia buried it for good reason.