To all of you that say: "Werewolf is weak"

Lexxypwns · March 2018

I’ve literally never lost a 1v1 to a WW. Snare him, root him, apply DoTs, defiles.

Chrlynsch · March 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I’ve literally never lost a 1v1 to a WW. Snare him, root him, apply DoTs, defiles.

Whoah... we are not here to discuss counters, and well thought out strategies to overcome an opponent. I mean.... look at the bones!

ccfeeling · March 2018

Pvp is still ok.
PVE needs buff.

Aznox · March 2018

Aedaryl wrote: »

Are we agree the best option for stam sorc WW in the idea to be played in both humain and WW form is Bone pirate + truth ?

In no-CP battleground you are going to have trouble to apply off-balance while in human form.

But for any serious werewolf discussion i encourage you to visit this thread :
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393796/werewolf-theorycrafting-pvp/

LegendaryMage · March 2018

Werewolf was always crazy strong in 1v1 and dueling a decent player with a meta WW build is most likely not going to end up well for you unless you can get a bit of distance and burst through.

Not all classes can do this, and unfortunately for you, mag templar is one of them. You 'could' pull off a combo with PL > Flare > Smiting (in this order, for 20% extra damage on the ulty), followed by a bit of sweeps and finisher, but it's easier said than done when you're locked into healing and surviving the onslaught.

If you were in heavy and Argonian, you'd probably last longer but it's still doubtful how the encounter would end eventually.

Besides, it's not just WW that's the problem here in 1v1, a lot of stam sorcs in general are abusing the uninterruptible dark deals and some classes without defile will never be able to fully combat that.

In addition to that, there are also bugs with fear mechanic and stuns in general this last update, as well as random resource drains, and WW is no exception to this, so do yourself a favor and don't worry too much about it, the game is far from being balanced for 1v1.

Aznox · March 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

[...]

This guy knows what's up.

Skander · March 2018

Exactly. Magplar has no counter to really bursty opponents but eclipse

Aznox · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

Exactly. Magplar has no counter to really bursty opponents but eclipse

Well my build is a lot more pressure oriented than burst focused.
Of course if you run around in light armor with no spell shield, anything is a burst to you

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · March 2018

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

Skander · March 2018

Aznox wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Exactly. Magplar has no counter to really bursty opponents but eclipse

Well my build is a lot more pressure oriented than burst focused.
Of course if you run around in light armor with no spell shield, anything is a burst to you

forget that with wizard riposte and minor protection i'm more tanky then heavy

Skander · March 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Zbigb4life · March 2018

You say Werewolfs are strong because the most damaging attack did what about 6k damage...

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Just a suggestion. I don't find ww to be an issue ever on any class I play and yes I do play none cp from time to time. Every person has a style they can't counter well (magdk for me) but doesn't mean it's op. Did u purge at any point? If your not using a shield do you use most form? If not why not

Qbiken · March 2018

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Werewolf was always crazy strong in 1v1 and dueling a decent player with a meta WW build is most likely not going to end up well for you unless you can get a bit of distance and burst through.

Not all classes can do this, and unfortunately for you, mag templar is one of them. You 'could' pull off a combo with PL > Flare > Smiting (in this order, for 20% extra damage on the ulty), followed by a bit of sweeps and finisher, but it's easier said than done when you're locked into healing and surviving the onslaught.

If you were in heavy and Argonian, you'd probably last longer but it's still doubtful how the encounter would end eventually.

Besides, it's not just WW that's the problem here in 1v1, a lot of stam sorcs in general are abusing the uninterruptible dark deals and some classes without defile will never be able to fully combat that.

In addition to that, there are also bugs with fear mechanic and stuns in general this last update, as well as random resource drains, and WW is no exception to this, so do yourself a favor and don't worry too much about it, the game is far from being balanced for 1v1.

@LegendaryMage My question to you: do you think the game should be more balanced around 1v1 (aka duels), or do you find the current state to be somewhat balanced (in general)?

Skander · March 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Just a suggestion. I don't find ww to be an issue ever on any class I play and yes I do play none cp from time to time. Every person has a style they can't counter well (magdk for me) but doesn't mean it's op. Did u purge at any point? If your not using a shield do you use most form? If not why not

M8 it isn't my first rodeo, i'm killing most of the ww i encouter becouse they don't know how to play. If you set for it tho it becomes insane. Literally, insane.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Just a suggestion. I don't find ww to be an issue ever on any class I play and yes I do play none cp from time to time. Every person has a style they can't counter well (magdk for me) but doesn't mean it's op. Did u purge at any point? If your not using a shield do you use most form? If not why not

M8 it isn't my first rodeo, i'm killing most of the ww i encouter becouse they don't know how to play. If you set for it tho it becomes insane. Literally, insane.

Yes I've played against the meta ww's as well just don't see the issue. I have a harder time against meta sorcs in human form then in ww.

Skander · March 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Just a suggestion. I don't find ww to be an issue ever on any class I play and yes I do play none cp from time to time. Every person has a style they can't counter well (magdk for me) but doesn't mean it's op. Did u purge at any point? If your not using a shield do you use most form? If not why not

M8 it isn't my first rodeo, i'm killing most of the ww i encouter becouse they don't know how to play. If you set for it tho it becomes insane. Literally, insane.

Yes I've played against the meta ww's as well just don't see the issue. I have a harder time against meta sorcs in human form then in ww.

Class?

LegendaryMage · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Werewolf was always crazy strong in 1v1 and dueling a decent player with a meta WW build is most likely not going to end up well for you unless you can get a bit of distance and burst through.

Not all classes can do this, and unfortunately for you, mag templar is one of them. You 'could' pull off a combo with PL > Flare > Smiting (in this order, for 20% extra damage on the ulty), followed by a bit of sweeps and finisher, but it's easier said than done when you're locked into healing and surviving the onslaught.

If you were in heavy and Argonian, you'd probably last longer but it's still doubtful how the encounter would end eventually.

Besides, it's not just WW that's the problem here in 1v1, a lot of stam sorcs in general are abusing the uninterruptible dark deals and some classes without defile will never be able to fully combat that.

In addition to that, there are also bugs with fear mechanic and stuns in general this last update, as well as random resource drains, and WW is no exception to this, so do yourself a favor and don't worry too much about it, the game is far from being balanced for 1v1.

@LegendaryMage My question to you: do you think the game should be more balanced around 1v1 (aka duels), or do you find the current state to be somewhat balanced (in general)?

TLDR: The game should be balanced for all encounters.

Traditionally, players would often say that the game should not be balanced around 1v1 encounters, considering that it's supposed to be a mass faction vs faction vs faction alliance war style PVP.

And this 'sounds' good when we say it like that, but it's not that simple.

On the other hand, some would often say that it ought to be balanced for 1v1 because 1v1 often happens whether someone likes it or not.

My position is that it should be balanced for both 1v1 and big scale fights.

Since the game comes with an array of abilities of all kinds (AOE, single target, buffs, debuffs etc), I do not see a single reason why a player shouldn't be able to choose whether he wants a more AOE focused build, or a purely 1v1 setup, or anything in between, all according to the playstyle that said player enjoys the most.

In the spirit of a TES game, where freedom to build your character exactly as you want exists.

My goal would be a little bit less 'meta' and a little bit more diversity and actual fun.

Of course, due to certain 'behind the scenes' foundations, hybrid builds are not really a thing anymore (if they ever truly were), and this is a shame because the game would have been so much deeper and interesting if one could make a truly viable hybrid, for example a battlemage with a two hander, wielding spells and physical attacks at the same time.

Just imagine the diversity in Cyrodiil.

Unfortunately at this point, this is probably a pipe dream, and so be it.

We're 4 years in, probably not going to happen. And if it were to happen, it would probably cause a lot of issues down the road so better to play it safe and forget about that.

However, there certainly are things that can be done to greatly improve combat and balance even in the current state of the game. And I'll explain how.

Before I forget, I would also have to say that it's definitely more balanced than a few big patches ago, but it's nowhere near where it could be. The devs do listen, but often to the wrong people also.

The first thing that I would do is to work on the class defining skills. There are not many, but they are all very important.

Things such as whip (dks), sweeps/jabs (templar), frags (sorc), concealed/surprise (nbs) and make sure that these offensive abilities are powerful and fun to use. Then we'd move to defensive ones, buffs & debuffs etc.

I often play TESL (the strategy card game) and I love those moments when I'm able to not only play a really strong card on the board, but also pull off some really cool combos with it.

This is what ESO lacks in a way.

Once abilities have been altered and toned down significantly, they become watered down versions of what they should have been, and this promotes boring and bland gameplay that just gets stale after a while.

I could give many examples and mention quite a few other 'class defining' skills, but it would make for a too long post right now. The bottom line is, a lot of things have went wrong here.

So that would be the first thing that I would do. Start with the basics. After that, move onto class passives and do a thorough review of all of them. The logic behind some of these is simply wrong. Then the weapon skill trees, guilds etc. So many things to do here.

My next step would be to look into all the other lackluster abilities that simply serve no real purpose to a dedicated player (or even a starter one) and re-work or improve them greatly. Even change them all together if they can't be salvaged. Way too many of those currently in the game.

And I would also try and identify the main performance trouble makers and either re-work their mechanics, or again, simply change them all together.

This probably wouldn't be enough to greatly improve performance (I'm not a network/engine expert so I can't say for sure what's the worst of the problems), but I'm sure there'd be some improvements at least.

Aznox · March 2018

It can always be improved, but i would argue game diversity and balance are much better right now than what many people think or say, at least in PVP where performance isn't reduced to just a few variables.

Cyrodiil, even with some clearly superior group setups running around, it's always possible to outsmart them, outnumber them or wait for them to loose patience and make a mistake. Plus there are many "one off" buff/debuff that are very powerful to have at least once in the group, encouraging build diversity.

Battleground suffers a lot from the lack of ranking system, but the core game of skills and itemization is mostly well balanced and diverse with teamplay and tactic being of utmost importance.

Even duel is quite fun and diverse, and while some builds will have a huge advantage against others, its balanced in a "Rock Paper Scissors (Lizard Spock)" manner, with no build dominating all others without counters.

Meta is not a problem as long is it rich enough to always be slowly evolving and we can all have fun adapting to it (or influencing it for some of us). Boredom is the true enemy here

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Just a suggestion. I don't find ww to be an issue ever on any class I play and yes I do play none cp from time to time. Every person has a style they can't counter well (magdk for me) but doesn't mean it's op. Did u purge at any point? If your not using a shield do you use most form? If not why not

M8 it isn't my first rodeo, i'm killing most of the ww i encouter becouse they don't know how to play. If you set for it tho it becomes insane. Literally, insane.

Yes I've played against the meta ww's as well just don't see the issue. I have a harder time against meta sorcs in human form then in ww.

Class?

I'm a stam dk

Skander · March 2018

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Just a suggestion. I don't find ww to be an issue ever on any class I play and yes I do play none cp from time to time. Every person has a style they can't counter well (magdk for me) but doesn't mean it's op. Did u purge at any point? If your not using a shield do you use most form? If not why not

M8 it isn't my first rodeo, i'm killing most of the ww i encouter becouse they don't know how to play. If you set for it tho it becomes insane. Literally, insane.

Yes I've played against the meta ww's as well just don't see the issue. I have a harder time against meta sorcs in human form then in ww.

Class?

I'm a stam dk

Stamina has mining of healing without being passive, you can get on the offensive while heals take place

Dracane · March 2018

I hope you are not iSkander from the EU server, that would be funny.
I agree though, Werewolf needs no buffs. Werewolf is super powerful, especially in pvp. Nothing deals as much damage as a Werewolf. Surely they aren't the best in every situation and they shouldn't. The only improvement I could see being made, is giving them a stamina heal. But that would be crazy and I think that would require their burst to be looked at.

Azurya · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

I think it doesn't need a buff. No

it needs a nerf you wanna say???
so sick about ppl who can´t get it that they die in PvP!!!!

Azurya · March 2018

Qbiken wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Werewolf was always crazy strong in 1v1 and dueling a decent player with a meta WW build is most likely not going to end up well for you unless you can get a bit of distance and burst through.

Not all classes can do this, and unfortunately for you, mag templar is one of them. You 'could' pull off a combo with PL > Flare > Smiting (in this order, for 20% extra damage on the ulty), followed by a bit of sweeps and finisher, but it's easier said than done when you're locked into healing and surviving the onslaught.

If you were in heavy and Argonian, you'd probably last longer but it's still doubtful how the encounter would end eventually.

Besides, it's not just WW that's the problem here in 1v1, a lot of stam sorcs in general are abusing the uninterruptible dark deals and some classes without defile will never be able to fully combat that.

In addition to that, there are also bugs with fear mechanic and stuns in general this last update, as well as random resource drains, and WW is no exception to this, so do yourself a favor and don't worry too much about it, the game is far from being balanced for 1v1.

@LegendaryMage My question to you: do you think the game should be more balanced around 1v1 (aka duels), or do you find the current state to be somewhat balanced (in general)?

so this game should be balanced around some players who like to duel??
well, that has certainly a future!

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Never had an issue against WW's in this game in fact I make a point to single them out and chase them down. If you had a shield on you might've lived a bit longer too.

no, why? Becouse shields are so puny in non cp that's not worth the magicka cost

Just a suggestion. I don't find ww to be an issue ever on any class I play and yes I do play none cp from time to time. Every person has a style they can't counter well (magdk for me) but doesn't mean it's op. Did u purge at any point? If your not using a shield do you use most form? If not why not

M8 it isn't my first rodeo, i'm killing most of the ww i encouter becouse they don't know how to play. If you set for it tho it becomes insane. Literally, insane.

Yes I've played against the meta ww's as well just don't see the issue. I have a harder time against meta sorcs in human form then in ww.

Class?

I'm a stam dk

Stamina has mining of healing without being passive, you can get on the offensive while heals take place

Yeah I suppose but don't you have access to jabs or is it still broke?

Qbiken · March 2018

.

Dracane wrote: »

I hope you are not iSkander from the EU server, that would be funny.
I agree though, Werewolf needs no buffs. Werewolf is super powerful, especially in pvp. Nothing deals as much damage as a Werewolf. Surely they aren't the best in every situation and they shouldn't. The only improvement I could see being made, is giving them a stamina heal. But that would be crazy and I think that would require their burst to be looked at.

At first when I started playing werewolf 5-6 months ago I was of the opinion that they needed a buff. But I can agree with you @Dracane that they´re in good position at the moment. Personally I think the heal is fine (even though Hircine´s Fortitude moprh is a wasted skillpoint). Werewolf could use bug-fixes (Like unchained passive not working in WW-form, or the dogs from Pack-leader morph not respawning), but other than that, I´m actually kinda satisfied where they´re.

Skander · March 2018

Dracane wrote: »

I hope you are not iSkander from the EU server, that would be funny.
I agree though, Werewolf needs no buffs. Werewolf is super powerful, especially in pvp. Nothing deals as much damage as a Werewolf. Surely they aren't the best in every situation and they shouldn't. The only improvement I could see being made, is giving them a stamina heal. But that would be crazy and I think that would require their burst to be looked at.

Yes it's me, how are you dear?

Azurya wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Werewolf was always crazy strong in 1v1 and dueling a decent player with a meta WW build is most likely not going to end up well for you unless you can get a bit of distance and burst through.

Not all classes can do this, and unfortunately for you, mag templar is one of them. You 'could' pull off a combo with PL > Flare > Smiting (in this order, for 20% extra damage on the ulty), followed by a bit of sweeps and finisher, but it's easier said than done when you're locked into healing and surviving the onslaught.

If you were in heavy and Argonian, you'd probably last longer but it's still doubtful how the encounter would end eventually.

Besides, it's not just WW that's the problem here in 1v1, a lot of stam sorcs in general are abusing the uninterruptible dark deals and some classes without defile will never be able to fully combat that.

In addition to that, there are also bugs with fear mechanic and stuns in general this last update, as well as random resource drains, and WW is no exception to this, so do yourself a favor and don't worry too much about it, the game is far from being balanced for 1v1.

@LegendaryMage My question to you: do you think the game should be more balanced around 1v1 (aka duels), or do you find the current state to be somewhat balanced (in general)?

so this game should be balanced around some players who like to duel??
well, that has certainly a future!

Never said it needed a nerf, learn to read

Dracane · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

Dracane wrote: »

I hope you are not iSkander from the EU server, that would be funny.
I agree though, Werewolf needs no buffs. Werewolf is super powerful, especially in pvp. Nothing deals as much damage as a Werewolf. Surely they aren't the best in every situation and they shouldn't. The only improvement I could see being made, is giving them a stamina heal. But that would be crazy and I think that would require their burst to be looked at.

Yes it's me, how are you dear?

Azurya wrote: »

Qbiken wrote: »

LegendaryMage wrote: »

Werewolf was always crazy strong in 1v1 and dueling a decent player with a meta WW build is most likely not going to end up well for you unless you can get a bit of distance and burst through.

Not all classes can do this, and unfortunately for you, mag templar is one of them. You 'could' pull off a combo with PL > Flare > Smiting (in this order, for 20% extra damage on the ulty), followed by a bit of sweeps and finisher, but it's easier said than done when you're locked into healing and surviving the onslaught.

If you were in heavy and Argonian, you'd probably last longer but it's still doubtful how the encounter would end eventually.

Besides, it's not just WW that's the problem here in 1v1, a lot of stam sorcs in general are abusing the uninterruptible dark deals and some classes without defile will never be able to fully combat that.

In addition to that, there are also bugs with fear mechanic and stuns in general this last update, as well as random resource drains, and WW is no exception to this, so do yourself a favor and don't worry too much about it, the game is far from being balanced for 1v1.

@LegendaryMage My question to you: do you think the game should be more balanced around 1v1 (aka duels), or do you find the current state to be somewhat balanced (in general)?

so this game should be balanced around some players who like to duel??
well, that has certainly a future!

Never said it needed a nerf, learn to read

@Skander Interesting. Because I just started seeing you on the forums very recently, at least I never saw you before. So I figured, it's just an imposter or someone who happens to have the same name.

Anyway Skander, you mustn't feel bad. You wore light armor, which is very brave if you don't use damage shields. What could you hope to do against stamina overload spam ? (Howl spam) I believe nobody would survive this for long. Light armor simply doesn't offer anything for healing, heavy armor does.

Aznox · March 2018

Dracane wrote: »

against stamina overload spam ? (Howl spam)

Doesn't change anything but he didn't get "Howl spammed", because :
- He's a Templar with Eclipse / Total Dark
- Howl spam isn't part of my rotation.

Datolite · March 2018

Why are we still humoring this guy? He's a habitual troll and nerf-caller with too much time on his hands.

Read his sig and you'll instantly regret wasting your time on him.