Taking VMA weapons out of it for a minute, you wont do better than what you have solo or in small group play (VO might offer a bit of utility over Auto, but its not more damage). You have the best personal Pen set (TFS) and the best overall damage set for a stam Sorc (automatons). VMA bow is obviously a DPS increase, and there is only one way to get it. Wont say any more on that.

What I would do/consider if I were you:

First, look to another 2 piece monster set. Krags just inst that great outside of dummy parsing. Stormfist or Velidreth are the obvious options. I really like Stormfist on my Stam sorc.

Second, The obvious thing to do is to replace your selfish set (TFS) with a group debuff set if trying to be better in group play. The two most obvious are Sunderflame (COA 1+2, comes in jewelry) or Night mothers (crafted, no jewerly). Both of these sets are ideal if only on your front bar (can both have uptimes in the high 90's), and automatons is ideal on your body (dont want to lose the damage when you swap). One super easy option would be to craft NM weapons (and 3 body pieces) to pair with your automatons (3 jewelry and 2 body). A more difficult option would be to farm sunder weapons (daggers or axe/dagger).

Third, Vicious ophidian is not the end all be all for stam DPS. It is essentially a damage set that has some selfish utility thrown in. From a pure damage standpoint, it falls below automaton and hundings rage. VO is really only useful if you are trying to stack full damage in a raid or in situations where you want a little more resource help (can be great in small group/solo Arena). It is certainly not going to help a dummy parse.

For example, you could go VO+ automaton, but you should only ever run that combo if in a fully optimized raid and you are asked to go full damage. An easier version of that same combo is Hundings/Automaton. If you want to excel at stam, you should have a selfish set, a few group options, and a full damage options. For you, the easiest way is this:

1. Selfish set: well you have that covered with TFS and Auto. Use this in 4 man or when solo.
2. Group combo 1: Nightmothers +automaton. This should be pretty easy to put together as its crafted. The downside is that a lot of people have NM so there might be some competition over who runs it in a raid (only need one).
3. Group combo 2: Sunderflame +automaton. This is a great set on a sorc because our rotation works really well with it, but to run this combo, you need to get Sunder weapons, which is a bit of a headache.
4. Full Damage combo: If you magically get VO weapons, great, pair it with Automaton. That is what I run when asked to go full damage. A significantly easier option is Hundings/Automaton as again, you can craft the weapons. While you might not run this combo as often, it is likely the best you will do for a full damage set without a significant farm.

Personally, I run these 5 combos (i have VO daggers) on my stam sorc.

1. Selfish (solo/small group): VO/TFS
2. Group Combo 1: Sunder (body)/VO (jewel and weapons). Not ideal, but it works very well. Dont have sunder daggers.
3. Group Combo 2: NM (weapons) /VO (jewelry)
4. Group Combo 3: NM (weapons) /Sunder (jewel and body). This is a full Buff B!#&H set, but sometimes you gotta do what your raid needs. I run it with NM weapons and Sunder body/jewelry, so its actaully not a hard combo to acquire. If you can run both Sunder and NM and keep both debuffs up with a very high uptime, you will be very popular. You can keep both in the high 90s on a static boss.
5. Full Damage: VO/Automaton. I prefer VO to hundings here because I really like the sustain, and you lose less damage when swapping to the back bar.

VO, Automatons and Hundings can really be used interchangeably. They all have strengths and weakness. From a pure damage standpoint, it goes Auto>Hundings>VO. VO helps a lot with sustain, which is why it is so popular. It also stacks most of the damage on the 3 piece, as the utility really comes on the 5 piece, whereas hundings stacks the damage on the 5 piece. Practically, this means that VO ends up being a better front bar set IMO if you can get the weapons, because you lose less when you swap. Automatons main draw back is that weapons are difficult to get, but really, this is not a set where you want to run weapons. Hundings main draw backs are no jewelry, and a greater penalty than VO for not having the bonus on both bars (auto has that same drawback). VOs drawbacks are obvious, its hard to get, especially weapons.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I figured the extra proc damage and pen from kragh would be better. Most of the time a healer is using combat prayer so the minor berserk becomes redundant.

I do like the idea of those crows being around though. Background wise my khajiit stamsorc workshops Khenarthi, who is depicted as a crow or eagle, so that'd be fun flavor at least. Plus I just watched a video on the proc visual and they're a nice purple to match my bound armor.

I love that you think like that. Haha. Some stuff is more important than hard DPS numbers.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I do have a set of powerful assault ill run for group support sometimes, only problem is I take a big dps loss because it covers the same slots as my automaton set (jewelry and hands/feet)

This is a tank/off tank set. I wouldnt run it as a DPS because as you stated, it's a loss.

exiars10 wrote: »

No matter what, Strenght of the Automaton set is a must on stamina Sorcerer. There are no ifs. Everything else is personal preference.

And I agree that Stormfist is another great monster set for stamina Sorcerer.

Going to try Unfathomable Darkness as full set .

I actually disagree with this statement. It is the best damage set for a stam sorc, no question, but I personally only run it when asked to go full damage. In a competitive raid, you will have 5 stam toons at most, and maybe 2 will be asked to go full damage. In most really good raids, those are done by stamblades or DKs as they have more single target potential than sorc. So assuming you arent going full damage, there are a lot of situations where Automaton doesnt make the cut. Dont get me wrong, it's a really powerful damage set, but you can be very competitive without it. For one, there are some times where you dont even run a damage set in a proper raid, and for others, it has two very close replacements in Hundings and VO. Personally, I run VO for my damage set in most setups, because I think the extra sustain is ultimately better. Only when I am stacking damage sets do I run Automaton.

As to the slimecraw statement earlier, I also disagree. As a melee DPS, you should be standing in a puddle of combat prayer if your healers are any good. It certainly has situational uses, and nothing wrong with it in your bag, but there area better across the board monster sets.

exiars10 wrote: »

I typed I don't play trials and playing trial with organized group and lfg Craglorn trials are again different beasts. For group dungeons and overland content, Automaton all the way.

Also, both of you read my statement too fast . I should be more precise:
5x Strength of the Automaton + 5x Unfathomable Darkness + 1x Kra'gh + 1x Slimecraw with slotted Expert Hunter for Major Savagery as he plays as Khajit. But, this is better on Nightblade... There is a reason.

I confirm that crows from Unfathomable Darkness defenitely crit! Crow damage is 4.671 in my case (purple gear) in tooltip, they hit at 4k and over 7k crit in reality and they have much more uptime than Kra'gh in my playing even are both at 10% chance. I don't know why but they are triggered very easily.

Slimecraw 1 piece is pretty week IMO. Especially on Khajiit, it's overkill on crit. 2 Piece is very strong when solo or in 4 man on any class not named NB. I think some of the recent record VMA runs had 2 piece slimecraw. As to Unfathomable Darkness, that looks like one of those sets that's pretty strong in solo/4 man, but gets out shined by raw damage/stat sets in a trial. I have no experience with it, but it does look cool. In solo/4man, there are 50 different gear combos that will give you good numbers. At the extreme end of things (pushing trial score), they all disappear. 99% of stam players are going to do one of three things, all with a two piece monster set.

1. One Damage set and One Buff/debuff set (most common)
2. Two damage sets
3. Two buff/debuff sets

For a stam sorc.

Your viable Damage sets* are Automaton>Hundings=Briarheart>VO. I think people are also getting good results with mechancial acuity, but I have only tested this on mageblade. Even though its in 3-4th place, I like VO the best because of the sustain.

*This is where a set like Unfathomable Darkness would potentially fit, but I dont know where it would rank. My guess is that in a raid environment, it would be dead last, but I could certainly be wrong. Generally one piece pen bonuses are useless in a raid. You balance based on total group penetration, and it makes no sense to have any selfish pen buffs (other than CP which you all keep constant). Your goal is to get the whole group to the pen cap, not just yourself. In other words, if one person is wearing it then everyone needs to wear it if you want good raid optimization.

Your viable buff/debuff sets are nightmother, sunderflame, alkosh. You will also see Morag Tong and War Machine, but these are not great on sorc. DKs should handle morag, and Stamblades and Stamplars should handle War Machine.

It's not rocket science. Check with your raid, and make sure all the debuff sets are covered. Best to spread them around. Once they are all covered, let you best DPS in the raid wear two damage sets. The more combos you carry, the more versatile you are.

If you are looking for hard numbers between going with two damage sets vs 2 pen sets (the extreme ends of the spectrum), for me personally its about 6k single target in a full raid environment and less than half of that on a dummy. Using Valariel as the measuring stick, I can hit about 52k ST running sunder/NM (two debuff sets), and about 57-58k ST if running VO/Automaton (two damage sets). The more base damage you pull, and the better your raid environment, the bigger that gap will be. I am above average in both of those factors typically, but certainly not in the top 1% of competitive players.

hondelink wrote: »

Just curious where Briarheart fits in compared to the other sets, or is it more for certain sets?

Briarheart is a damage set that is essentially a wash with hundings. The only benefit is that it gives a small heal. It’s just harder to get perfect traits, especially the weapons. You can think of the two as interchangeable if you have the right pieces.

As to stormfist, it really does sync well with the Stam Sorc. The lighting damage it does will proc implosion, so the set acts as an execute. In trash veil is certainly better, but in bosses I like stormfist. It’s also really cool looking. Selenes is also viable but not as good as the others IMO

OP, keep in mind that all the info I am giving is for an optimized raid. If you aren’t in an optimized raid or in 4 man, it’s pretty tough to beat auto/TFS. I personally like TFS/VO, but that is a decision based in utility not DPS.