zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

zParallaxz wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Vermintide wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

I’m saying on a mageblade built solely around zaan(or zaan+Caluurion) kills that no defensive set is required because proc sets don’t scale on max stat damage. This means he can instead of running wizards just run 30k health and spinners, have higher proc based damage and similar survival. The shadow image being fixed comment has nothing to do with its source of minor maim that’s useless outside of 1v1s, it’s more about the fact that you can now kite to your full potential and therefore you get “mitigation” by just not being focused.

I agree that defensive sets are strong on mageblade. But if you’re building around zaan there’s no penalty for pushing 30k health as a defensive mechanic instead of relying on wizards. Furthermore, I’d argue that the trap morph of fear is a superior choice for this setup and since it applies maim to 5 targets per trap you would see dimishing returns moreso than on a typical mageblade build.

Well that's fair enough, I can't fault your reasoning.

I mean my overall point is that relying on proc damage is going to be a very bad way to put together a build regardless, especially with a set like Zaan. It's only useful if you can trap your foe inside your 10m cheese radius, so you still need to play like a regular magblade at all other times. This is why we've had people saying they're just gonna stick to Skoria.

TL;DR no way *** wizards riposte on every build forever

I think that there’s 2 schools of thought.

You build a complete build and use the proc set for added Burt/pressure(Skoria/groth/Selene ).

You build around the proc set as your main killing power(zaan, old viper, old red mountain).

I don’t think the second choice should ever be viable. A damage proc should never be strong enough that it can be relied on as your main source of killing potential, but zaan, like those old sets is capable of providing exactly that.

I guarantee if someone tries using zaan as their only kill potential in OW, they will be severely saddened.

One thing I agree with is that the set is awfully designed, as are many proc sets. They are intended to change playstyles and combat, functioning as an active passive, but RNG and this lazy "procs" give a potential to kill without skill involved, despite counterplay. That translates to a real hit or miss set.

I don't think it is imbalanced at all for what it does, and ZOS offered many decent counters,* I just think its poorly designed and doesn't add enough to combat. If it rewards you for staying close to one enemy, it should proc that way. Like X melee attacks in a row.

*Inb4 soul assault comparisons. That was death for nearly all builds bar NB since it had low counterplay.

In your mind is it ok that zaan, even open world, offers 100% area denial against a single opponent?

Wat.

100% area denial. For a normal build 5s max up, 12s+ down. So no. Not a 100% area denial. You break it, in whatever way you choose and its even less. Your dots will tick, a ranged build can keep damage.

This is a little asspully of an excuse. Because its not true. Also, look to blessed. It can be onebarred and kills single builds. It has little counter, (IIRC it can be purged) and has a 50%ish uptime.

I don’t think you’re understanding what I’m saying. When zaan procs on you then you must leave the area or die. The uptime is irrelevant because you build to accommodate the times when the proc isn’t present.

You’re ignoring my question and instead ranting about some straw man you constructed. I think it’s time to call it on this thread

But no, you don’t have to leave the area. Although, it would help in ending the proc sooner rather than later. I’ve encountered both magicka and stamina builds alike who have been able to stay right in front of me with Zaan going off just fine. As they were able to heal through it. Nightblades, Wardens, Dragonknights, etc. All able to withstand the damage, and simply heal through it. Magicka or stamina based. Notice by the way the way that I intentionally left out Sorcerers and Templars, as to them it is as if I’m not even wearing Zaan. But, I’m sure you get the point.

Because you’re not built to maximize zaan. You have about 0 other damage and no buffs that effect its tooltip OR increase your penetration. Of course it doesn’t perform to lethal levels for you.

Try zaan on a mageblade that’s got access to enough stacking damage buffs and penetration to really push the zaan proc damage.

Lol I can tell u don’t play dk. Dark elf magdks can buff Zaan far more than a magblade.

I can tell you don’t know math. Mark+minor berserk+major berserk+incap gives more zaan damage than dunmer+DK passives. This isn’t even a discussion, you constantly spout garbage when simple math proves you wrong.

Even just minor berserk+mark is more damage than what dunmer+DK gives without engulfing. Even incap alone is as much bonus damage as dunmer DK

Edit: also, NB can’t be dunmer? Just stop it dude, your ignorance is showing

You make me laugh dude, the uptime of major berserk isn’t plausible to use, you would have to kill someone first so it’s not a constant it’s a variable. If u were to fight one singular person who would have a higher uptime of most of the flame damage buffs, of course it be a dk lol. On top of standard of might, engulfing flames, for the penetration ele drain can be used while also getting 8% single target dogs from ancient knowledge passive, and to put icing on the cake I could even put sun on the table because no other class uses it. You say I talk garbage because I put your a** out on the curb last time you said something on forums and we 1v1 on live. You rely to much on math and not knowledge of the actual game.

ak_pvp wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I’m happy to see so many people are finally understanding the bigger picture with Zaan, and aren’t freaking out about it anymore. People are realizing that the reality is that it isn’t nearly as bad as what they claimed it was.

Not really. They’re just tired of arguing with you.

I don’t be think it’s an issue now with the one or two guys running around with it, but once every player and stamina nightblade has it, Cyrodiil will be unplayable. This set needs and will see a nerf once the DB expansion sales meet their goal.

Nail on the head there mate. He just repeats the same nonsense with massive walls of txt until differing opinions quieten down. Typical passive aggressive troll.

He offers good points why Zaan isn't OP and its strengths to weaknesses.

You zaan criers refuse to use the counters, and cry that boohoo big numbers, sets shouldn't have big numbers, scary. Despite using the best case scenario which hardly happens.

BohnT wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Buffler wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I’m happy to see so many people are finally understanding the bigger picture with Zaan, and aren’t freaking out about it anymore. People are realizing that the reality is that it isn’t nearly as bad as what they claimed it was.

Not really. They’re just tired of arguing with you.

I don’t be think it’s an issue now with the one or two guys running around with it, but once every player and stamina nightblade has it, Cyrodiil will be unplayable. This set needs and will see a nerf once the DB expansion sales meet their goal.

Nail on the head there mate. He just repeats the same nonsense with massive walls of txt until differing opinions quieten down. Typical passive aggressive troll.

He offers good points why Zaan isn't OP and its strengths to weaknesses.

You zaan criers refuse to use the counters, and cry that boohoo big numbers, sets shouldn't have big numbers, scary. Despite using the best case scenario which hardly happens.

And all those "good" Points aren't enough to make the set balanced.

Running away is not doable on 3 classes and results in at least 15-25k damage or in a huge resource drain most of the time it's both.

Also Zaan does more damage than Soul Assault while giving you the opportunity to mix it with another ult and further more you don't lose any mobility or Utility while you nuke someone with zaan.

Purging Zaan is impossible for DKs and Warden as purge is not a viable skill, it's too expensive Fails to remove the wanted effect and you waste a skill Slot to use it. On Templars Purging zaan takes atleast 2 gcd because you always have more than 5 debuffs on you also good Players will instantly cc you when zaan procs against a templar to get atleast 3 ticks from it, in These 2 gcd you will further pressure the templar and if he's unlucky with purges he'll eat 4-6 ticks which is more damage than most ults will deal.

Also saying it only deals this much damage in the worst case is just stupid, if i wait the full Duration in a Nova, SoM, veil of blades or any other ground dot i take less damage than i get from eating a zaan proc that:
1. Doesn't cost any ultimate or resources
2. Is much harder to negate than the ultimates
3. And has a better uptime than the others

Also it's ridicoulus to say something is balanced because 2 of 5 classes have a relatively easy time with the set while the otehr 3 get totally wrecked by it.
Is shieldbreaker balanced agaisnt sorc?
Is Mark balanced against nbs?
Is Shimmering shield balanced against ranged build?
Were Stamina procs balanced?
Is skoria balanced against medium armor builds?
Were Soulassoult/Birds balanced agaisnt medium armor builds?
Were Magdks balanced when fighting stambuilds?
And the list goes on.

The discussion is ridicoulus, please come to Bergama sometime and I'm sure we'll find you some People who'll Show you how 'balanced' zaan is