WARNING! READ BEFORE YOU BUY THE NEW OUTFIT STATION!

lishybach · February 2018

I bought the dye station with writs a month ago knowing it would convert to the outfit station (which was the whole point I got it).

MajesticHaruki · February 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Did you know that the majority of players in this game do not even know that ZoS releases patch notes? They aren't even on the forums. They don't even know things like "ESO Live" exsist. Some people's only free-time is spent playing the game and they dont have the time to go digging for information in each installment of patch notes like the hardest of the hardcore player. Get out of your bubble.

Please stop making up excuses. The OP has been more time around the forum than me and KNEW that outfit stations were coming to eso. He/She also had knowledge of the patch notes because he/she actually read part of them. Ignorance is not an excuse. What's next? "Hey ZOS I used to teleport to wayshrines by casting the spell instead of using nearby wayshrines, I spent 30k gold, I want them BACK!" ?

burglar · February 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

You shouldn't get a refund because you were too lazy to read patch notes.

Most won't read the patch notes. ZOS should not put things in the game like this without an in-game message.

You don't have to read the patch notes, you can:

Don't make large purchases RIGHT after a patch. Wait until someone does something impulsive, like OP did, and reports back to everyone. Simple be more intelligent about your purchases, rather than making others have to answer for your mistakes, when the information you need is readily available.
Find the information in another way. Say to yourself, hey im gonna buy this Thinger McBobberJohn they put up with the patch today. Then before you buy it, go to google and paste in the real name of Thinger McBobberJohn, or better yet, go to the patch notes page, hit Ctrl+F, or Command+F if you're on mac, or Super+F, or Meta+F if you're on linux, then paste in the real name of Thinger McBobberJohn and hit enter.
If no results turn up on google, or on the patch notes page, try searching the forums entirely.

Or effing best of all, just make a habit of reading the damn natch potes! They're divided into convenient sections, and organized for easy reading. As someone with dyslexia, I can attest to this!

jssriot · February 2018

It was in the patch notes. It was in the live stream. A lot of us knew. IDK how many dye stations i sold prior to the update to other people who were informed that the outfit station would be accessible via the old dye station that had been already available to us, but it was nice coin.

Sorry for your goof, but yeah. A lot of people knew so in this case, ZOS did a pretty good job in getting that information out.

Tan9oSuccka · February 2018

lordrichter wrote: »

Astrid_V wrote: »

You shouldn't get a refund because you were too lazy to read patch notes.

Most won't read the patch notes. ZOS should not put things in the game like this without an in-game message.

I completely agree. I’m on the forums often and I don’t always read the natch potes.

I had the same question and had to research a bit. I’m sure glad I did.

danno8 · February 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Even if you didn't read the patch notes, you didn't watch PTS players, PC players nor watched any ESO official videos explaining this change. They covered this dye station in a video and explained it.

Some people just play the game.

Why have so much "outside" information but then not bother to have any "in-game" information on the purchasable Outfit Station?

We are primarily meant to play the game, not watch videos on how to play it.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Did you know that the majority of players in this game do not even know that ZoS releases patch notes? They aren't even on the forums. They don't even know things like "ESO Live" exsist. Some people's only free-time is spent playing the game and they dont have the time to go digging for information in each installment of patch notes like the hardest of the hardcore player. Get out of your bubble.

Please stop making up excuses. The OP has been more time around the forum than me and KNEW that outfit stations were coming to eso. He/She also had knowledge of the patch notes because he/she actually read part of them. Ignorance is not an excuse. What's next? "Hey ZOS I used to teleport to wayshrines by casting the spell instead of using nearby wayshrines, I spent 30k gold, I want them BACK!" ?

Ok but this isn't just about OP. It's also about the millions of other players who aren't on the forums at all

Either way someone made a mistake and they are posting a PSA for other players. Nothing wrong with that. I too would be mad if used 500 vouchers on a silly mistake. I'm not so much making excuses as I am understanding that not everyone has time to read the patch notes or even know they exists. "excuse" is a word with so much negative connotation and I don't think it applies here. I'm offering explanations and understanding.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

joaaocaampos wrote: »

Someone has not read the Patch Note...

I only had a quick flip through the class abilities, true. But I don't understand why the new outfit station is even in the game, or why its more than 10x more than it was previously to buy with precious writ vouchers. We shouldn't have to read all the patch notes to know this stuff, it simply shouldn't be in the game, or it should have informed me when I logged in that my dye station had changed to an outfit station.

Aaaanyway if I get anywhere with the refund I'll post here to let you guys know.

Some would say ZOS is taking advantage of people who don’t read but who are willing to buy crowns for X and Y.

Others would argue it’s the customers fault.

Kinda makes you wonder about the companies ethics and why are we still buying crowns whether it’s a sub or direct purchase.

A third argument could be that they gave the old dye station the upgraded functionality as a courtesy to those that already have it, something they didn't have to do. They could have opted to make everyone pay the cost for the Outfit stations, but they didn't.

Thats a perspective I would not apply towards an ethical way of updating the game. By that perspective it comes across that they are doing right to charge customers for any and all changes as well as penalizing customers for the same change.

Juju_beans · February 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Just a reminder patch notes are not Terms and Conditions that you simply check them and proceed. Gina and Jessica actually WROTE them for YOU to READ!

Did you know that the majority of players in this game do not even know that ZoS releases patch notes? They aren't even on the forums. They don't even know things like "ESO Live" exsist. Some people's only free-time is spent playing the game and they dont have the time to go digging for information in each installment of patch notes like the hardest of the hardcore player. Get out of your bubble.

One can easily read the patch notes of a major content release while the patch is downloading to their machine.
It took less than 5 minutes to read the patch notes. We're not talking "War and Peace" here for how much was written.

If they have such limited free time then why are they even playing an MMO which is a time sink.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Just a reminder patch notes are not Terms and Conditions that you simply check them and proceed. Gina and Jessica actually WROTE them for YOU to READ!

Did you know that the majority of players in this game do not even know that ZoS releases patch notes? They aren't even on the forums. They don't even know things like "ESO Live" exsist. Some people's only free-time is spent playing the game and they dont have the time to go digging for information in each installment of patch notes like the hardest of the hardcore player. Get out of your bubble.

One can easily read the patch notes of a major content release while the patch is downloading to their machine.
It took less than 5 minutes to read the patch notes. We're not talking "War and Peace" here for how much was written.

If they have such limited free time then why are they even playing an MMO which is a time sink.

You're not looking at the big picture.

The majority of players are not even aware there are patch notes available for reading. I've had this discussion with countless players/friends in game chat where I was talking about the upcoming patch notes and they were completely un-aware something like this exists or where to find them.

Not only that but I've read patch notes before and have missed somethings on my first read-through because I was going too quickly or distracted or what have you.

Edit: Furthermore, I'll expect all players to read the patch notes when ZOS actually reads all the threads in the bug report section.

danno8 · February 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Just a reminder patch notes are not Terms and Conditions that you simply check them and proceed. Gina and Jessica actually WROTE them for YOU to READ!

Did you know that the majority of players in this game do not even know that ZoS releases patch notes? They aren't even on the forums. They don't even know things like "ESO Live" exsist. Some people's only free-time is spent playing the game and they dont have the time to go digging for information in each installment of patch notes like the hardest of the hardcore player. Get out of your bubble.

One can easily read the patch notes of a major content release while the patch is downloading to their machine.
It took less than 5 minutes to read the patch notes. We're not talking "War and Peace" here for how much was written.

If they have such limited free time then why are they even playing an MMO which is a time sink.

One can easily write 5 lines of helpful code for a major content release while writing thousands of other lines as well.
It takes less than 5 minutes to write the code. We're not talking a major systems rewrite here.

If they have such limited vision of potential customer issues then why are they even developing an mmo which is a huge undertaking.

JamieAubrey · February 2018

LUL

monktoasty · February 2018

The patch notes are not in the game thus he should not be punished for not reading them.

Kuramas9tails · February 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Even if you didn't read the patch notes, you didn't watch PTS players, PC players nor watched any ESO official videos explaining this change. They covered this dye station in a video and explained it.

Some people just play the game.

Why have so much "outside" information but then not bother to have any "in-game" information on the purchasable Outfit Station?

We are primarily meant to play the game, not watch videos on how to play it.

There's a reason there's a website, a forum, a facebook, twitter, ect. Any news on changes to the game is shared on all social media and even their website. There's a "news" section of the website that goes into explaining the outfit system. HERE is the link to the news blog so you didn't even need to watch a video. And the reason all this exists is because this is a big and complex game with a lot of changes that doesn't need explaining about the in game changes and adding unnecessary space to an already laggy game. If you want to learn more about something, go online. OP has experience in the forums with 500+ comments and 47 discussions (more than I may I add). You CAN NOT tell me that there were not several opportunities for the OP in 2 months to find out more information on the Dye/Outfit Station.

damiandjay24 · February 2018

Not only was it in the Patch Notes but that information was also in several of the announcements and news articles on their website leading up to release date.

Stopnaggin · February 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

MajesticHaruki wrote: »

Just a reminder patch notes are not Terms and Conditions that you simply check them and proceed. Gina and Jessica actually WROTE them for YOU to READ!

Did you know that the majority of players in this game do not even know that ZoS releases patch notes? They aren't even on the forums. They don't even know things like "ESO Live" exsist. Some people's only free-time is spent playing the game and they dont have the time to go digging for information in each installment of patch notes like the hardest of the hardcore player. Get out of your bubble.

One can easily read the patch notes of a major content release while the patch is downloading to their machine.
It took less than 5 minutes to read the patch notes. We're not talking "War and Peace" here for how much was written.

If they have such limited free time then why are they even playing an MMO which is a time sink.

One can easily write 5 lines of helpful code for a major content release while writing thousands of other lines as well.
It takes less than 5 minutes to write the code. We're not talking a major systems rewrite here.

If they have such limited vision of potential customer issues then why are they even developing an mmo which is a huge undertaking.

This isn't a customer service issue. Its a lack of preparation on the end users part. If he didn't bother reading before making a purchase how is that the developers fault? Again were not talking about a slight change to a skill or something that would be easy to miss. We are talking about a huge addition that has been asked for many times over. An addition that was talked about for months. I would think if it were something that was that important to his ESO QOL he would have taken the time to find out about it.

Don't get me wrong I read patch notes and miss some stuff. But something I have been looking forward to, I tend to read up on a bit more. Its a costly mistake on the ops part, but one that could have been avoided easily. I can blame a lot of things on Zeni but this isn't one of them. The info was there for the taking. They didnt take it.

danno8 · February 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Even if you didn't read the patch notes, you didn't watch PTS players, PC players nor watched any ESO official videos explaining this change. They covered this dye station in a video and explained it.

Some people just play the game.

Why have so much "outside" information but then not bother to have any "in-game" information on the purchasable Outfit Station?

We are primarily meant to play the game, not watch videos on how to play it.

There's a reason there's a website, a forum, a facebook, twitter, ect. Any news on changes to the game is shared on all social media and even their website. There's a "news" section of the website that goes into explaining the outfit system. HERE is the link to the news blog so you didn't even need to watch a video. And the reason all this exists is because this is a big and complex game with a lot of changes that doesn't need explaining about the in game changes and adding unnecessary space to an already laggy game. If you want to learn more about something, go online. OP has experience in the forums with 500+ comments and 47 discussions (more than I may I add). You CAN NOT tell me that there were not several opportunities for the OP in 2 months to find out more information on the Dye/Outfit Station.

Adding a prompt that says "The outfit station function the same as the dye station, and is only cosmetically different" is going to lag the game?

The warning should be in-game. No amount of listing off how many out-of-game options there are is going to change that.

Question. If it WAS in the game would you be complaining that it was lagging the game, or should be removed? Ridiculous.

And you are right. I WILL NOT tell you that there was no opportunity for the OP to learn of this before hand, but you CAN NOT tell me that it shouldn't be in the game due to "lag" (LOL!!).

Kuramas9tails · February 2018

danno8 wrote: »

Adding a prompt that says "The outfit station function the same as the dye station, and is only cosmetically different" is going to lag the game?

The warning should be in-game. No amount of listing off how many out-of-game options there are is going to change that.

Question. If it WAS in the game would you be complaining that it was lagging the game, or should be removed? Ridiculous.

And you are right. I WILL NOT tell you that there was no opportunity for the OP to learn of this before hand, but you CAN NOT tell me that it shouldn't be in the game due to "lag" (LOL!!).

So essentially what you are implying is that they should give the announcement to changes in game? So that would basically be like adding Patch Notes to In Game Announcements.

Or are you implying they should have only done that with the Dye Stations? So when would ZOS need to decide what to put in game announcements for changes they made? What if I didn't read that you could buy storage containers with writs and immediately bought them from the crown store. Should I get my money back or was that my fault for not reading the details online? Who decides what and when these in game changes should go in game announcements? That sounds like a total mess.

Just READ the website.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Adding a prompt that says "The outfit station function the same as the dye station, and is only cosmetically different" is going to lag the game?

The warning should be in-game. No amount of listing off how many out-of-game options there are is going to change that.

Question. If it WAS in the game would you be complaining that it was lagging the game, or should be removed? Ridiculous.

And you are right. I WILL NOT tell you that there was no opportunity for the OP to learn of this before hand, but you CAN NOT tell me that it shouldn't be in the game due to "lag" (LOL!!).

So essentially what you are implying is that they should give the announcement to changes in game? So that would basically be like adding Patch Notes to In Game Announcements. Or are you implying they should have only done that with the Dye Stations? So when would ZOS need to decide what to put in game announcements for changes they made? What if I didn't read that you could buy storage containers with writs and immediately bought them from the crown store. Should I get my money back or was that my fault for not reading the details online? Who decides what and when these in game changes should go in game announcements? That sounds like a total mess.

Just READ the website.

Maybe the patch notes should just be available in-game.

Kuramas9tails · February 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

So essentially what you are implying is that they should give the announcement to changes in game? So that would basically be like adding Patch Notes to In Game Announcements. Or are you implying they should have only done that with the Dye Stations? So when would ZOS need to decide what to put in game announcements for changes they made? What if I didn't read that you could buy storage containers with writs and immediately bought them from the crown store. Should I get my money back or was that my fault for not reading the details online? Who decides what and when these in game changes should go in game announcements? That sounds like a total mess.

Just READ the website.

Maybe the patch notes should just be available in-game.

I personally would really like to see @ZOS_GinaBruno response to this. See if it has even been a thought for ZOS. I wouldn't be against it but I think the reason it's not been a thing is due to some things we don't consider because we don't work on their end.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

So essentially what you are implying is that they should give the announcement to changes in game? So that would basically be like adding Patch Notes to In Game Announcements. Or are you implying they should have only done that with the Dye Stations? So when would ZOS need to decide what to put in game announcements for changes they made? What if I didn't read that you could buy storage containers with writs and immediately bought them from the crown store. Should I get my money back or was that my fault for not reading the details online? Who decides what and when these in game changes should go in game announcements? That sounds like a total mess.

Just READ the website.

Maybe the patch notes should just be available in-game.

I personally would really like to see @ZOS_GinaBruno response to this. See if it has even been a thought for ZOS. I wouldn't be against it but I think the reason it's not been a thing is due to some things we don't consider because we don't work on their end.

I would as well!

danno8 · February 2018

Kuramas9tails wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Adding a prompt that says "The outfit station function the same as the dye station, and is only cosmetically different" is going to lag the game?

The warning should be in-game. No amount of listing off how many out-of-game options there are is going to change that.

Question. If it WAS in the game would you be complaining that it was lagging the game, or should be removed? Ridiculous.

And you are right. I WILL NOT tell you that there was no opportunity for the OP to learn of this before hand, but you CAN NOT tell me that it shouldn't be in the game due to "lag" (LOL!!).

So essentially what you are implying is that they should give the announcement to changes in game? So that would basically be like adding Patch Notes to In Game Announcements. Or are you implying they should have only done that with the Dye Stations? So when would ZOS need to decide what to put in game announcements for changes they made? What if I didn't read that you could buy storage containers with writs and immediately bought them from the crown store. Should I get my money back or was that my fault for not reading the details online? Who decides what and when these in game changes should go in game announcements? That sounds like a total mess.

Just READ the website.

You are trying to conflate the issue here and turn it into a total mess. It's not.

Dye Stations already existed in the game. They removed them from everywhere and replaced them with Outfit Stations. BUT they did not replace the ones in your house. Those are still Dye Stations.

They also still sell Dye Stations at the vendor. But there is also the new Outfit Stations. They are the same but cosmetically, but one is called "Dye" and the other is called "Outfit". They created a confusing situation only because the Dye Station was already in-game before the Outfit Station came to be.

I can't think of any other situation in the game like this, but nice try on attempting to liken it to Storage Containers. And then trying to apply it all over the game.

Warning should be in game. That is my last response to this thread.

Shardaxx · February 2018

Thanks for the support guys, and to the folks who just say its my own fault well you're right I should have researched it better, then I'd have known.

However I feel that the 500 writ voucher was placed in the game DELIBERATELY to trick stupid people like me into buying it. How can 500 vouchers be justified when its just a cosmetic change? The high price indicates it does more than my old 35 writ dye station, does it not? I figured you needed this for the outfits, I think that's a reasonable assumption given the price.

Well ZOS, you got me, it didn't cost me any real cash but a lot of gold was spent to gather those 500 writ vouchers. So cheers for the deliberate deception, its not what I look for in games but I'll be more wary from now on for your tricks and traps.Hopefully this post will stop other people being suckered in by your devious scheme.

Elsonso · February 2018

lishybach wrote: »

I bought the dye station with writs a month ago knowing it would convert to the outfit station (which was the whole point I got it).

Same here, based on PTS. Not patch notes. Mainly, in case they decided to stop selling the old one in favor of the new, more expensive, one.

Jeremy · February 2018

Shardaxx wrote: »

So I shelled out 500 writ vouchers on the new Outfit Station for my house, only to later discover my existing Dye Station (which only cost me 35 writ vouchers) functions EXACTLY the same! The new one is larger and looks different, but in terms of functionality its identical. Why would zenimax do such a thing??

So a warning for all, if you have a dye station in your house already, its been upgraded to an outfit station, and there's no point buying the new outfit station.

I've put in a ticket asking for a refund for my writ vouchers, I don't hold out much hope but its worth a shot.

Housing is mostly about looks and cosmetic features anyway. Your outfit station may function the same but at least it looks different and like a real outfit station.

I'd also like to point out this information was just not in the patch notes. They also went over this in the news section when your game loads up and said that dye stations inside player housing would be upgraded to outfit stations. So I believe Zenimax took adequate steps to inform us.

I never read the patch notes and I knew about this.

That being said, I hope you get your refund.

Tasear · February 2018

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

Shardaxx wrote: »

So I shelled out 500 writ vouchers on the new Outfit Station for my house, only to later discover my existing Dye Station (which only cost me 35 writ vouchers) functions EXACTLY the same! The new one is larger and looks different, but in terms of functionality its identical. Why would zenimax do such a thing??

So a warning for all, if you have a dye station in your house already, its been upgraded to an outfit station, and there's no point buying the new outfit station.

I've put in a ticket asking for a refund for my writ vouchers, I don't hold out much hope but its worth a shot.

So, for the people that keep telling you to "read the patch notes", what would they have told you? Would they have said the 500 wri voucher version is exactly the same? Does the cheaper 35 voucher one still exist, or did they just up the price of the new ones and change the old ones?

Now what patch notes did say was existing stations were supposed to turn into outfit station. Makes more sense then mystery now... doesn't.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

Maybe some should not assume everyone is like you.

While often others will say go read...does that bring all customers clarification or does that only apply to those who knew of this from a prior interaction? Also, unless you know to go to the forums to read, how would you know. From an Xbox One perspective, the only way you would know to go there is if you found the ESO Game Hub and subscribed (follow) as well as saw it in your feed and clicked the link (if you installed Edge) and read through the notes.

That's a lot of assumptions made.....this is intentionally not user friendly even after years of feedback from me personally as well as others have expressed, opportunity exists but decisions not to offer meaning information continue.

But lets look at the notes....
Link

Every Dye Station previously found in the world has been upgraded into an Outfit Station.

Furnishing Stations
Dye Stations found in homes are visually unchanged, but have been upgraded to the full Outfit Station functionality.
A new furnishing with the visual of the new Outfit station is now available on the new Master Writ achievement mediator, Faustina Curio, with all of the above associated functionality. Purchase is unlocked by completion of the Alliance Style Master achievement, which can be earned by learning all 9 of the starting racial styles (not including Imperial).

I think many assume the logic but nowhere is this stated that they are all one in the same (In the crown store) and this is intentional like other furniture items

The game should have a tool-tip or an obvious indicator/description that conveys its only cosmetic difference from the others

The reality is this was done on purpose in efforts to further monetize players as they do have the ability to see player behaviors.

What we see again are more attempts to remove in-game options in ways to monetize things.
-The dye station was initially added due to player feedback but they chose not to add the rest of what was requested.
-Costumes were added without dye options but cost real money up front, and require a sub to change the colors.
-Then they added housing(some exclusive to real money only), and aligned further monetization around the dye station
-Then they added different costmetic looks to the dye station per DLC with an increased in-game and real money cost
-Now they've intentionally added more features that require you to use the new system and further decided to monetize not only what could be dye-able normally, but if its used as this new feature, they locked a real money and in-game cost to what was free in-game

MasterSpatula · February 2018

This was never not made perfectly clear. 100% on you, OP.

Eiagra · February 2018

There's a couple of angles to looking at this.

From a CS standpoint, a gesture of goodwill (in this case, a refund of Writ Vouchers) can help create promoters of a product. It's not something that costs much and/or costs anything, it makes a customer happy, and life moves on.

However, it's also important to determine whether a corporation is at fault before determining whether a gesture of goodwill is appropriate. In this case, because this change is clearly documented in the patch notes, ZOS carries no fault. It is the responsibility of the player to thoroughly research their purchase decisions. The player made the error here.

I would say that ZOS has no obligation to offer any kind of refund. However, if they do so as a gesture of goodwill, I would consider it an exception -- meaning other players who have experienced similar circumstances should not expect similar treatment. Ultimately, that decision will fall to the company's customer's service.

Elsonso · February 2018

MasterSpatula wrote: »

This was never not made perfectly clear. 100% on you, OP.

Clear as mud.

"Dye Stations found in homes are visually unchanged, but have been upgraded to the full Outfit Station functionality."

Ok. Great. What about those that are not in homes, or have not been purchased? Is it even an option to purchase them, now? Surely they would tell us if they removed them? Right? Maybe?

"A new furnishing with the visual of the new Outfit station is now available on the new Master Writ achievement mediator, Faustina Curio, with all of the above associated functionality."

Ahh. Here is an answer. There is a new outfit station. Sold by a new vendor. They don't say that the new one replaces the old one, but then again, if dye stations are becoming outfit stations, why continue to sell the dye stations?

I am not sure why people are pointing at the patch notes. They are just as unclear today as they were all during PTS. We had this issue during PTS when they talked about these stations, and the basic response was essentially to try it out in the game and find the answer for yourself.