Zaan is ridiculous (Console PVP player POV)

Abysswarrior45 · February 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Aside from breaking the beam by LoSing or moving out of range (this can be harder to do than say, I agree) or even streaking out (but this is available only to sorcs) Zaan can be purged, and purge is available to everyone.

Proc Zaan just to get instantly purged, thus completely negated, and put on 18 seconds cooldown. What a super overpowered set!!!!

To my experience Zaan has been going through walls once procced and no stam build outside of a ganker or stam sorc on its overload bar will be able to use purge without gimping themselves severely. Thats not a reliable counter. And if your enemy that happens to be using Zaan knows how to stay close then you can't dodge roll or sprint away.

Then figure out other ways of countering it. This permanent crying for nerfs is so tiresome.

Because you can't right? Because there are none. This is the first ever nerf thread I've made and its definitely justified.

Abysswarrior45 · February 2018

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Aside from breaking the beam by LoSing or moving out of range (this can be harder to do than say, I agree) or even streaking out (but this is available only to sorcs) Zaan can be purged, and purge is available to everyone.

Proc Zaan just to get instantly purged, thus completely negated, and put on 18 seconds cooldown. What a super overpowered set!!!!

To my experience Zaan has been going through walls once procced and no stam build outside of a ganker or stam sorc on its overload bar will be able to use purge without gimping themselves severely. Thats not a reliable counter. And if you enemy that happens to be using Zaan knows how to stay close then you can't dodge roll aways or sprint.

- I talk only from BG perspective, as I never step foot in Cyrodiil because I don't consider it a worthy PvP experience. -

Stamplar has it's own class purge.

Stamina warden, stamDK, stamsorc all have flex spots to fit purge. However, I am little worried about stamDK which actively uses magicka pool for other things. Stamwarden uses it's magicka only for Frost Cloak and occassional Shimmering Shield which is free anyways if you proc it. Stamsorc is Dark Dealing only with occassional Surge refresh.

StaminaNB is left alone to Zaan's wrath. It can't eat all his magicka with purge and then not being able to Cloak. But don't worry, in 90% BG scenarios, there are people out there on whom you can ambush and break Zaan.

If everybody slots purge, Zaan will quickly go extinct in PvP. I can tell, I play BGs really often and don't encounter many Zaans because BGs are full of cleansing rituals, knockbacks and mobility (which all are direct counters to Zaan). You kill players with Zaan once, than nobody because everybody will get aware of your Orange flame beam and be always on guard. If I occassionaly meet someone with Zaan it's a magDK which is immobile anyways.

I don't do BGs. I find it to be a game of who's setup best in there rather than who plays best. Whoever has the most optimal team wins. Cyrodiil open world is unpredictable and often times puts you in situations that aren't in your comfort zone allowing you to grow as a player. Because of sets like Zaan, duels aren't worth mentioning as they've been imbalanced as hell since the proc meta which never really ended arguably. If you are a medium stam build and you're an amazing player and you come across 4 pugs wearing Zaan who you'd normally be able to 1vX you can no longer do that anymore. You definitely won't be able to outheal 4 Zaan procs.

Stamplars purge is limited on the amount of dots it can purify and it can't be spammed so it won't always cleanse Zaan.

Stam dks (medium stam dks specifically) really don't have a flex spot. They need igneous, vigor, hardened, evil hunter/FoB, all the 2h skills it rally or FM. Their magic pool is key to their survival, I've been playing one since launch.

rustic_potato · February 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

It is a set designed against 1vXers.. Play with friends or kill the user before they kill you. Stop whining because ZOS wants the game to be easier and be more casual friendly. I don't see anything wrong with it. It is only players who think that there is something of a hidden reward for their skill who have a problem with it.

With the removal of AOE caps small group PVP is now better than ever. I really wish the 1vXers would disappear from the game and stop making everything not fun.

A game should never cater to a casual player base. That game would get boring real quick. Competition is key for the longevity of the game and casuals shouldn't care whether something is nerfed or not.

I agree. I have given up on competition in this game ages ago. I have accepted that ESO will always primarily cater to the casual base first and moved on. It is still a fun game to play with friends, unfortunately nothing beyond that though.

The set will eventually get nerfed but till then best option is for you to also use it.

Parrot1986 · February 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Thats not how recaps work. The damage you see isnt the amount you took, its the amount you wouldve taken if the full channel hit you. The recap told you zaan hit you for 15k but you really only took like 2k or 5k before losing.

Zaan is fine.

I guarantee I took 15k because he was right on my tail during the full duration and the sap essence after was the last thing on my recap right under Zaan.

15k is around the last tick I get on a dummy which has around 5k resistances left and no battle spirit applied against it so I’m doing full damage. I’m not sure how you can be getting the same with 40k resistance and battle spirit.

My perspective is I only really PVE but sometimes PvP. PVE i got Zaan, used it on dummies and it was great and gives me about 1k boost. Take it into a live environment with multiple adds and it’s underwhelming. I’ve switched back to grothdar/skoria as its much more reliable.
For PVP on my magplar I have a class counter in purify, so do NBs have a class counter in cloak, Sorcs have streak, DKs could root/stun/slow enemies to make breaking the beam easier. So I’m not sure how this is so much of an issue that it calls for an immediate nerf before even being able to get a feel for how to adjust to the new patch.

ccfeeling · February 2018

All proc sets have been nerfed last time but ZOS created ZAAN , I don't get it .

Seraphayel · February 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Aside from breaking the beam by LoSing or moving out of range (this can be harder to do than say, I agree) or even streaking out (but this is available only to sorcs) Zaan can be purged, and purge is available to everyone.

Proc Zaan just to get instantly purged, thus completely negated, and put on 18 seconds cooldown. What a super overpowered set!!!!

To my experience Zaan has been going through walls once procced and no stam build outside of a ganker or stam sorc on its overload bar will be able to use purge without gimping themselves severely. Thats not a reliable counter. And if your enemy that happens to be using Zaan knows how to stay close then you can't dodge roll or sprint away.

Then figure out other ways of countering it. This permanent crying for nerfs is so tiresome.

Because you can't right? Because there are none. This is the first ever nerf thread I've made and its definitely justified.

Yeah but it's like the 20th or so "nerf Zaan" thread.

I am not even using the set (I am a healer) but nerfing everything is no solution. I agree though that ZOS internal / PTS balancing for new sets could be better.

rustic_potato · February 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

All proc sets have been nerfed last time but ZOS created ZAAN , I don't get it .

ZOS for the first time are releasing new content with profit in mind. All game devs do it. ZOS dropped the ball hard with the warden class in morrowind but this seems like a step in the right direction.

Abysswarrior45 · February 2018

Parrot1986 wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Thats not how recaps work. The damage you see isnt the amount you took, its the amount you wouldve taken if the full channel hit you. The recap told you zaan hit you for 15k but you really only took like 2k or 5k before losing.

Zaan is fine.

I guarantee I took 15k because he was right on my tail during the full duration and the sap essence after was the last thing on my recap right under Zaan.

15k is around the last tick I get on a dummy which has around 5k resistances left and no battle spirit applied against it so I’m doing full damage. I’m not sure how you can be getting the same with 40k resistance and battle spirit.

My perspective is I only really PVE but sometimes PvP. PVE i got Zaan, used it on dummies and it was great and gives me about 1k boost. Take it into a love environment with multiple adds and it’s underwhelming. I’ve switched back to grothdar/skoria as its much more reliable.
For PVP on my magplar I have a class counter in purify, so do NBs have a class counter in cloak, Sorcs have streak, DKs could root/stun/slow enemies to make breaking the beam easier.

I'm not getting 15k off of 1 tick. Its 15k damage on me over the full duration. If your Zaan is hitting a fully debuffed dummy for just 15k I'm not sure you have the greatest setup as there are people hitting higher numbers in PVP against players with resistances similar to that of a test dummy and thats with battle spirit. Furthermore, no stam dk will be able to use talons. Thats a waste of magic and a gimp to the build. A stamplar has 1-2 purifys but I'll agree to what you said about stam sorc and magplar. If you feel Zaan is not worth it in PVE thats great but this thread is from a PVP perspective from a player who's been soloing open world since IC. The set needs more counterplay/a nerf and not every adjustment will affect its use in PVE land much... if at all.

ecru · February 2018

pretty sure zaan + spamming light attacks is prob enough to kill most players, especially in bg's

really makes you think

geonsocal · February 2018

it'll get the nerf it needs - in like 2 patches from now...

chicks dig the long ball and players want armor sets that do easy big numbers...

helps sell dlc's...

Drdeath20 · February 2018

To be fair most zerglings will not be able to get Zaan unless they buy it from the golden vendor. I just tried that dungeon on normal, with a great group, and we struggled to a few boss mechanics.

This just means that the people who will be able to get Zaan are the people who need it the least and are the most lethal with it.

Scary times ahead

Abysswarrior45 · February 2018

Drdeath20 wrote: »

To be fair most zerglings will not be able to get Zaan unless they buy it from the golden vendor. I just tried that dungeon on normal, with a great group, and we struggled to a few boss mechanics.

This just means that the people who will be able to get Zaan are the people who need it the least and are the most lethal with it.

Scary times ahead

The dungeon isn't hard at all unless you do HM. In fact neither of the dungeons are hard unless you do HM. I would say Bloodroot and Falkreath are much more difficult. I'm already seeing zerglings and pugs with the set and on my recap.

monktoasty · February 2018

Zaan sounds awesome

Turelus · February 2018

Kalante wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

LOL creating an entire build just to counter the meta that is some asinine bs that ive ever heard. No wonder this game has no balance.

But... that's literally how counter play evolves in sandbox MMO games (which Cyrodiil is close to).
X becomes FOTM so everyone uses it, Y is a hard counter so people start to use it, X seems weak vs Y so becomes Z etc.

navystylz_ESO · February 2018

Was reading through all these posts and just /facepalming. Every class has some way to counter it already but the argument is "why should I have to change my build to counter it"? Like say, what?? God forbid people have to swap in skill for different occasions.

Mojomonkeyman · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

LOL creating an entire build just to counter the meta that is some asinine bs that ive ever heard. No wonder this game has no balance.

But... that's literally how counter play evolves in sandbox MMO games (which Cyrodiil is close to).
X becomes FOTM so everyone uses it, Y is a hard counter so people start to use it, X seems weak vs Y so becomes Z etc.

As an oldschool gamer with about 30 years of gaming experience - Eso was and still is setting new standards (unfortunately) for enabling mechanics and power creep. The effort needed to counter power creep + enabling mechanics (zaan in this case) is so much higher than in any other games i played. Zaan is one of those sets that, especially in objective based (non-sandbox concept btw) scenarios like battlegrounds, singlehandedly shift gameplay from player vs player (both reacting to each others moves) to player vs gearpiece. The player using it becomes irrelevant when facing zaan, since nothing he will do is remotely as dangerous as the gear proc.

The developers have introduced several non-sandbox venues, such as battlegrounds or dueling, they should be taken into account when balancing.

As a hardcore BG player, I can only testament that sets like Zaan severely corrupt and outright damage the integrity of any objective focused structured PvP scenario to a degree that makes me reconsider playing bgs and therefore eso at all.

Turelus · February 2018

@Mojomonkeyman I fully agree with the issues ESO has with power creep and I am not saying Zaan isn't an issue, but the fact that most games which have this kind of build freedom see FotM rotations as one build becomes strong and proliferated only to become outclassed by a counter build is the norm.

As I joked in the nerf thread, removal of these helm sets in PvP would go a long way towards solving the issues of balancing them for PvP. I mean we had to have an NPC which spawns BiS gear to sell on a weekly basis just to make them viable for PvP players, that's horrible game design IMO. You shouldn't have an NPC selling Legendary BiS items ever.

ak_pvp · February 2018

Turelus wrote: »

@Mojomonkeyman I fully agree with the issues ESO has with power creep and I am not saying Zaan isn't an issue, but the fact that most games which have this kind of build freedom see FotM rotations as one build becomes strong and proliferated only to become outclassed by a counter build is the norm.

As I joked in the nerf thread, removal of these helm sets in PvP would go a long way towards solving the issues of balancing them for PvP. I mean we had to have an NPC which spawns BiS gear to sell on a weekly basis just to make them viable for PvP players, that's horrible game design IMO. You shouldn't have an NPC selling Legendary BiS items ever.

I got jumped when I said that. Especially since its RNG. Sure, its handy, but y'know what is more handy. Allowing us to earn the sets we want.

Bbsample197 · February 2018

wtf is that video?! after he CC'ed you he runs straight towards and not the other way around! ofc zaan will kill him that way, he didnt even attempt to run away from it, he has all the chance!!

Lord_Etrigan · February 2018

Zaan, jesus beam and soul assault in one sentence makes me very nervous.

Feanor · February 2018

It’s sad that so many players defend the cheese. Caluurion is right up the same alley. Try those sets in noCP. Flat out broken.

Surak73 · February 2018

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Sure the night blade played bad but that monster set still took him from 70% to 0%.

Oh well, even a meteor, a dawnbreaker or a dk jump could take you from 70% to 0% in a moment, if you don't deal properly with them. The problem in this video is only that the guy doesn't have any idea about what to do.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · February 2018

i have no issue with zaan i just roll away from them

Saint_Bud · February 2018

Dont see this set in cyro on eu pc that much. But in bg its a nightmare. In a few week evryone will wear it and it will destroy all fun. Running away is *** hard in a game were perma snare and root is a base gamemechanik. And to all wanabee pve heoros, mag meele is dead since morowind and this set does not help to catch up.

Datthaw · February 2018

Whine whine cry cry whine cry whine cry cry cry

^ what this thread sounds like

Skander · February 2018

Zaan is so broken.

Probably made to sell the dlc

Skander · February 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Thats not how recaps work. The damage you see isnt the amount you took, its the amount you wouldve taken if the full channel hit you. The recap told you zaan hit you for 15k but you really only took like 2k or 5k before losing.

Zaan is fine.

Zaan is not fine hahahahaa

Ragnaroek93 · February 2018

At least people can't blame stamina this time because of proc sets...

Feanor · February 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

At least people can't blame stamina this time because of proc sets...

Like Skoria Zaan is used by Stam users too. Draw your own conclusions.

GreenhaloX · February 2018

With 40k resistance.. really?! A typical tank doesn't even get that high. What super spinach are you popping on your toon? Anyways, I doubt that Zaan would be hitting that high on a toon with 40k resistance.