Zaan is ridiculous (Console PVP player POV)

Abysswarrior45

Before all the PVE players get up in my face saying L2P, hear me out. All PVE content could be completed prior to Zaan's addition. If you really need a set that pulls that kind of damage to achieve specific dps/complete content then the only one needing to L2P is you. I'm a PVP player, but I do enjoy the occasional vMoL run and 4 man dungeon runs for skins/dailies. Nobody should have that kind of free damage. Work on your rotation if your dps is lackluster without Zaan. One thing I've noticed is how easy PVE content has become. vMA can be done naked on a mag char (shoutout to Kasa for doing it on her sorc), most veteran dungeons can be soloed on HM, and with the exception of these brand new ones, they can ALL be duoed. Trials you're able to bypass mechanics because of the ridiculous dps people are able to achieve currently like lunar phase in vMoL. Thats stupid. Zaan is over performing in PVE too arguably. In PVP there shouldn't be a debate.

On my stam dk I had a 15k Zaan on my recap from a player I've 1vXed numerous times before. I have 40k resist to magic fully buffed on my backbar and 26k resists on my front bar. I tried rolling to break the beam and had a speed pot up for added mobility since I'm in medium. If a player–good or bad–knows how to walk towards/sprint towards the opponent with Zaan going theres no getting out of it. They can be complete trash but that damage is out of control, its completely broken. Why should anyone have that kind of free damage at the cost of no resources and no penalty? Its a soul assault attached to a set. If you can counter it thats great, perhaps the people you run into aren't the same people I run into. Magblades, mag dks, and magplars are tearing people up with Zaan currently in PVP. You nerfed all the proc sets for stamina users but look what you've given to mag chars who still have skoria. Skoria should have the same treatment tremorscale had as in add a red circle under your feet you can step out of to avoid the meteor. Zaan should be interruptible at the very least. Damage definitely needs to be nerfed even more imo. When you're getting constantly snared by poisons which ignore snare immunity and you have a magblade proccing merciless and the like on you or a mag dk dotting you up WHILE Zaan is going theres no healing through that. This set needs adjustments. Right now its another set for zerglings to throw on and nuke solo players and crazy powerful in duels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT4krLkG6A0

Thats just 1 example of Zaan destroying someones entire hp bar. The user even says its broken.





PS: Ignore any grammatical errors. I'm not spending time making this look professional.

ccfeeling

Nerf Zaan ?
Nerf Dawnbreaker ?
Nerf Templar ?

I think different nerf posts are coming from the losers

WakeYourGhost

Wow, you can tell they did their research. I mean, it's been out on console for less than 24 hours on console and they've already exhausted all possible ideas for how to counter, avoid, or otherwise deal with this set.

I personally haven't even run across it yet.. I feel a bit unloved.

Abysswarrior45

ccfeeling wrote: »

Nerf Zaan ?
Nerf Dawnbreaker ?
Nerf Templar ?

I think different nerf posts are coming from the losers

I assume you use Zaan and crutch on it? No, I just said nerf Zaan by letting it be interruptible.

WakeYourGhost wrote: »

Wow, you can tell they did their research. I mean, it's been out on console for less than 24 hours on console and they've already exhausted all possible ideas for how to counter, avoid, or otherwise deal with this set.

I personally haven't even run across it yet.. I feel a bit unloved.

Enlighten me on the counters. I already explained why roll dodge and sprinting away don't work. LOS doesn't work either so do tell.

Seraphayel

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

Abysswarrior45

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

You mean increase the duration and lower the damage per tick so it still puts out the same dps but you can actually heal through it? Thats not a bad suggestion. Or am I misunderstanding what you said?

PlagueSD

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Before all the PVE players get up in my face saying L2P, hear me out. All PVE content could be completed prior to Zaan's addition. If you really need a set that pulls that kind of damage to achieve specific dps/complete content then the only one needing to L2P is you. I'm a PVP player, but I do enjoy the occasional vMoL run and 4 man dungeon runs for skins/dailies. Nobody should have that kind of free damage. Work on your rotation if your dps is lackluster without Zaan. One thing I've noticed is how easy PVE content has become. vMA can be done naked on a mag char (shoutout to Kasa for doing it on her sorc), most veteran dungeons can be soloed on HM, and with the exception of these brand new ones, they can ALL be duoed. Trials you're able to bypass mechanics because of the ridiculous dps people are able to achieve currently like lunar phase in vMoL. Thats stupid. Zaan is over performing in PVE too arguably. In PVP there shouldn't be a debate.

On my stam dk I had a 15k Zaan on my recap from a player I've 1vXed numerous times before. I have 40k resist to magic fully buffed on my backbar and 26k resists on my front bar. I tried rolling to break the beam and had a speed pot up for added mobility since I'm in medium. If a player–good or bad–knows how to walk towards/sprint towards the opponent with Zaan going theres no getting out of it. They can be complete trash but that damage is out of control, its completely broken. Why should anyone have that kind of free damage at the cost of no resources and no penalty? Its a soul assault attached to a set. If you can counter it thats great, perhaps the people you run into aren't the same people I run into. Magblades, mag dks, and magplars are tearing people up with Zaan currently in PVP. You nerfed all the proc sets for stamina users but look what you've given to mag chars who still have skoria. Skoria should have the same treatment tremorscale had as in add a red circle under your feet you can step out of to avoid the meteor. Zaan should be interruptible at the very least. Damage definitely needs to be nerfed even more imo. When you're getting constantly snared by poisons which ignore snare immunity and you have a magblade proccing merciless and the like on you or a mag dk dotting you up WHILE Zaan is going theres no healing through that. This set needs adjustments. Right now its another set for zerglings to throw on and nuke solo players and crazy powerful in duels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT4krLkG6A0

Thats just 1 example of Zaan destroying someones entire hp bar. The user even says its broken.

PS: Ignore any grammatical errors. I'm not spending time making this look professional.

Umm, if you see that nice big flame link, you need to get away. It's basically a build in Jesus beam. Since he stood next to you the WHOLE fight, he deserved to die.

ak_pvp

That guy played bad. That is how you won.

He is an NB. Cloak stops zaan in its tracks. He failed to use it instead rolled. He had a fine opportunity when you were CCd or he was behind you, but failed.

Kalante

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

LOL creating an entire build just to counter the meta that is some asinine bs that ive ever heard. No wonder this game has no balance.

rustic_potato

It is a set designed against 1vXers.. Play with friends or kill the user before they kill you. Stop whining because ZOS wants the game to be easier and be more casual friendly. I don't see anything wrong with it. It is only players who think that there is something of a hidden reward for their skill who have a problem with it.

With the removal of AOE caps small group PVP is now better than ever. I really wish the 1vXers would disappear from the game and stop making everything not fun.

Qbiken

Zaan should get it´s duration extended but the damage increase/tick lowered to 25% increase instead of 50%. That way it becomes good for PvE where sustained damage is more important, and it becomes less useful in PvP where burst (in most cases) is more important.

Personally I´ve more issues with Caluurion´s. At least I´ve the visual que of Zaan being connected to me making it possible to do something. Caluurion hit´s like the old Viper back when Viper could crit. If anything needs to be tuned down it´s Clauurion´s.

Minalan

This happens every time ZOS adds a new set.

We put up with Malubeth Templars for months. PC/NA even crowned an emperor named ‘FFS Nerf Malubeth Already”. Repeatedly. They didn’t get the message.

ZOS combat designers just don’t listen to us, we tested this on the PTS and told them it was ridiculous.

@ZOS_GinaBruno Can you please forward this video on? There is definitely a ‘lever’ they need to pull on this damage output.

Abysswarrior45

ak_pvp wrote: »

That guy played bad. That is how you won.

He is an NB. Cloak stops zaan in its tracks. He failed to use it instead rolled. He had a fine opportunity when you were CCd or he was behind you, but failed.

Thats not my video and also its only 1 example. I'm a medium dk and couldn't escape a magblade while a speed pot was up because of the constant CCs and the fact he knew how to walk forward. Sure the night blade played bad but that monster set still took him from 70% to 0%. He wasn't hit by anything else. No monster set should do that.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO

@Minalan Welcome to Marketing...stuff OP=people buy DLC...after 3-6 months they nerf it to the ground cuz we have new DLCs that follow the same pattern =.=

Abysswarrior45

rustic_potato wrote: »

It is a set designed against 1vXers.. Play with friends or kill the user before they kill you. Stop whining because ZOS wants the game to be easier and be more casual friendly. I don't see anything wrong with it. It is only players who think that there is something of a hidden reward for their skill who have a problem with it.

With the removal of AOE caps small group PVP is now better than ever. I really wish the 1vXers would disappear from the game and stop making everything not fun.

A game should never cater to a casual player base. That game would get boring real quick. Competition is key for the longevity of the game and casuals shouldn't care whether something is nerfed or not.

Seraphayel

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

You mean increase the duration and lower the damage per tick so it still puts out the same dps but you can actually heal through it? Thats not a bad suggestion. Or am I misunderstanding what you said?

You can either lower the damage per tick or increase the time between ticks when you increase the overall duration.

Seraphayel

Kalante wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

LOL creating an entire build just to counter the meta that is some asinine bs that ive ever heard. No wonder this game has no balance.

But that's how this game always has been? Look at Zaan like it would be the little brother of Jesus Beam and figure out some counter mechanics until Zaan becomes unpopular.

DoctorESO

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Before all the PVE players get up in my face saying L2P, hear me out. All PVE content could be completed prior to Zaan's addition. If you really need a set that pulls that kind of damage to achieve specific dps/complete content then the only one needing to L2P is you. I'm a PVP player, but I do enjoy the occasional vMoL run and 4 man dungeon runs for skins/dailies. Nobody should have that kind of free damage. Work on your rotation if your dps is lackluster without Zaan. One thing I've noticed is how easy PVE content has become. vMA can be done naked on a mag char (shoutout to Kasa for doing it on her sorc), most veteran dungeons can be soloed on HM, and with the exception of these brand new ones, they can ALL be duoed. Trials you're able to bypass mechanics because of the ridiculous dps people are able to achieve currently like lunar phase in vMoL. Thats stupid. Zaan is over performing in PVE too arguably. In PVP there shouldn't be a debate.

On my stam dk I had a 15k Zaan on my recap from a player I've 1vXed numerous times before. I have 40k resist to magic fully buffed on my backbar and 26k resists on my front bar. I tried rolling to break the beam and had a speed pot up for added mobility since I'm in medium. If a player–good or bad–knows how to walk towards/sprint towards the opponent with Zaan going theres no getting out of it. They can be complete trash but that damage is out of control, its completely broken. Why should anyone have that kind of free damage at the cost of no resources and no penalty? Its a soul assault attached to a set. If you can counter it thats great, perhaps the people you run into aren't the same people I run into. Magblades, mag dks, and magplars are tearing people up with Zaan currently in PVP. You nerfed all the proc sets for stamina users but look what you've given to mag chars who still have skoria. Skoria should have the same treatment tremorscale had as in add a red circle under your feet you can step out of to avoid the meteor. Zaan should be interruptible at the very least. Damage definitely needs to be nerfed even more imo. When you're getting constantly snared by poisons which ignore snare immunity and you have a magblade proccing merciless and the like on you or a mag dk dotting you up WHILE Zaan is going theres no healing through that. This set needs adjustments. Right now its another set for zerglings to throw on and nuke solo players and crazy powerful in duels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT4krLkG6A0

Thats just 1 example of Zaan destroying someones entire hp bar. The user even says its broken.

PS: Ignore any grammatical errors. I'm not spending time making this look professional.

Well, you did close the gap and keep the gap closed, thereby allowing Za'an to do her magic.

Abysswarrior45

Seraphayel wrote: »

Kalante wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

I don't see the problem. If Zaan is too strong now there will be builds countering it. More will run those builds and Zaan will become mediocre after some time.

They could increase the duration but keep the damage for a "quick" fix but I don't know if that's a solution.

LOL creating an entire build just to counter the meta that is some asinine bs that ive ever heard. No wonder this game has no balance.

But that's how this game always has been? Look at Zaan like it would be the little brother of Jesus Beam and figure out some counter mechanics until Zaan becomes unpopular.

No it hasn't always been that way. Used to be just player skill that determined success. Back during IC release you'd have stam builds wearing hundings agility 1 kena 1 BS and magic chars would use seducers and something else. Whoever could animation cancel, manage resources, and combo best would win. Sets contributed only to the stat sheet and there was no set which caused someone to have a huge advantage over another player.

Abysswarrior45

DoctorESO wrote: »

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Before all the PVE players get up in my face saying L2P, hear me out. All PVE content could be completed prior to Zaan's addition. If you really need a set that pulls that kind of damage to achieve specific dps/complete content then the only one needing to L2P is you. I'm a PVP player, but I do enjoy the occasional vMoL run and 4 man dungeon runs for skins/dailies. Nobody should have that kind of free damage. Work on your rotation if your dps is lackluster without Zaan. One thing I've noticed is how easy PVE content has become. vMA can be done naked on a mag char (shoutout to Kasa for doing it on her sorc), most veteran dungeons can be soloed on HM, and with the exception of these brand new ones, they can ALL be duoed. Trials you're able to bypass mechanics because of the ridiculous dps people are able to achieve currently like lunar phase in vMoL. Thats stupid. Zaan is over performing in PVE too arguably. In PVP there shouldn't be a debate.

On my stam dk I had a 15k Zaan on my recap from a player I've 1vXed numerous times before. I have 40k resist to magic fully buffed on my backbar and 26k resists on my front bar. I tried rolling to break the beam and had a speed pot up for added mobility since I'm in medium. If a player–good or bad–knows how to walk towards/sprint towards the opponent with Zaan going theres no getting out of it. They can be complete trash but that damage is out of control, its completely broken. Why should anyone have that kind of free damage at the cost of no resources and no penalty? Its a soul assault attached to a set. If you can counter it thats great, perhaps the people you run into aren't the same people I run into. Magblades, mag dks, and magplars are tearing people up with Zaan currently in PVP. You nerfed all the proc sets for stamina users but look what you've given to mag chars who still have skoria. Skoria should have the same treatment tremorscale had as in add a red circle under your feet you can step out of to avoid the meteor. Zaan should be interruptible at the very least. Damage definitely needs to be nerfed even more imo. When you're getting constantly snared by poisons which ignore snare immunity and you have a magblade proccing merciless and the like on you or a mag dk dotting you up WHILE Zaan is going theres no healing through that. This set needs adjustments. Right now its another set for zerglings to throw on and nuke solo players and crazy powerful in duels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rT4krLkG6A0

Thats just 1 example of Zaan destroying someones entire hp bar. The user even says its broken.

PS: Ignore any grammatical errors. I'm not spending time making this look professional.

Well, you did close the gap and keep the gap closed, thereby allowing Za'an to do her magic.

Thats a friend on of mine playing, not me. He's a good player but at about 70% hp he stopped landing hits and the NB (while not the greatest NB in town) still went from 70% to 0% from just a monster set proc. Thats absurd.

Koensol

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

@Minalan Welcome to Marketing...stuff OP=people buy DLC...after 3-6 months they nerf it to the ground cuz we have new DLCs that follow the same pattern =.=

It is sad but true... I mean who in their right mind creates all these cancerous easy mode proc sets, right after they nerfed similar sets such as viper, veli, selenes? It was obvious that those nerfs increased the health of the pvp game. Now they just repeat the cycle.

Olupajmibanan

Aside from breaking the beam by LoSing, moving out of range (this can be harder to do than say, I agree) or even streaking out (this is available only to sorcs), Zaan can be purged, and purge is available to everyone.

Proc Zaan just to get instantly purged, thus completely negated, and put on 18 seconds cooldown. What a super overpowered set!!!!

AzraelKrieg

I duelled a friend on PC, both using Zaan. We were really just testing it out to see how ridiculous it is. I had Absorb Magicka up, Zaan ate it up and then killed me as it continued to tick. I imagine that if I keep refreshing Absorb Magicka up I would have survived it while keeping my magicka up at the same time. It's definitely strong but you can easily work around it.

Sixty5

Having a look at the video, you have a Nightblade player with 21k max HP, probably with low mitigation, who takes a Zaan proc and doesn't react to it at all. They didn't try to Cloak, and the two dodge rolls they did were into the other player, rather than trying to create space. There wasn't even a Vigor popped,

Not saying there is nothing wrong with Zaan, just pointing out that the example you showed is one with someone who probably has no clue what the set does, and looks to be inexperienced in PVP

Abysswarrior45

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Aside from breaking the beam by LoSing or moving out of range (this can be harder to do than say, I agree) or even streaking out (but this is available only to sorcs) Zaan can be purged, and purge is available to everyone.

Proc Zaan just to get instantly purged, thus completely negated, and put on 18 seconds cooldown. What a super overpowered set!!!!

To my experience Zaan has been going through walls once procced and no stam build outside of a ganker or stam sorc on its overload bar will be able to use purge without gimping themselves severely. Thats not a reliable counter. And if your enemy that happens to be using Zaan knows how to stay close then you can't dodge roll or sprint away.

Abysswarrior45

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

I duelled a friend on PC, both using Zaan. We were really just testing it out to see how ridiculous it is. I had Absorb Magicka up, Zaan ate it up and then killed me as it continued to tick. I imagine that if I keep refreshing Absorb Magicka up I would have survived it while keeping my magicka up at the same time. It's definitely strong but you can easily work around it.

How about medium stam builds without shields who rely on roll dodge as their primary form of mitigation? Please note that an enemy–even if they're trash–that can advance and stay close to you will make distancing yourself enough to break Zaan in time impossible.

Abysswarrior45

Sixty5 wrote: »

Having a look at the video, you have a Nightblade player with 21k max HP, probably with low mitigation, who takes a Zaan proc and doesn't react to it at all. They didn't try to Cloak, and the two dodge rolls they did were into the other player, rather than trying to create space. There wasn't even a Vigor popped,

Not saying there is nothing wrong with Zaan, just pointing out that the example you showed is one with someone who probably has no clue what the set does, and looks to be inexperienced in PVP

The Nightblade definitely wasn't the greatest player however the person in the video popped entropy and vamps bane and missed his jabs and the monster set did the rest. No monster set should hit that hard without a counter similar to selenes/tremor scale.

Olupajmibanan

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Aside from breaking the beam by LoSing or moving out of range (this can be harder to do than say, I agree) or even streaking out (but this is available only to sorcs) Zaan can be purged, and purge is available to everyone.

Proc Zaan just to get instantly purged, thus completely negated, and put on 18 seconds cooldown. What a super overpowered set!!!!

To my experience Zaan has been going through walls once procced and no stam build outside of a ganker or stam sorc on its overload bar will be able to use purge without gimping themselves severely. Thats not a reliable counter. And if you enemy that happens to be using Zaan knows how to stay close then you can't dodge roll aways or sprint.

- I talk only from BG perspective, as I never step foot in Cyrodiil because I don't consider it a worthy PvP experience. -

Stamplar has it's own class purge.

Stamina warden, stamDK, stamsorc all have flex spots to fit purge. However, I am little worried about stamDK which actively uses magicka pool for other things. Stamwarden uses it's magicka only for Frost Cloak and occassional Shimmering Shield which is free anyways if you proc it. Stamsorc is Dark Dealing only with occassional Surge refresh.

StaminaNB is left alone to Zaan's wrath. It can't eat all his magicka with purge and then not being able to Cloak. But don't worry, in 90% BG scenarios, there are people out there on whom you can ambush and break Zaan.

If everybody slots purge, Zaan will quickly go extinct in PvP. I can tell, I play BGs really often and don't encounter many Zaans because BGs are full of cleansing rituals, knockbacks and mobility (which all are direct counters to Zaan). You kill players with Zaan once, than nobody because everybody will get aware of your Orange flame beam and be always on guard. If I occassionaly meet someone with Zaan it's a magDK which is immobile anyways.

Seraphayel

Abysswarrior45 wrote: »

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Aside from breaking the beam by LoSing or moving out of range (this can be harder to do than say, I agree) or even streaking out (but this is available only to sorcs) Zaan can be purged, and purge is available to everyone.

Proc Zaan just to get instantly purged, thus completely negated, and put on 18 seconds cooldown. What a super overpowered set!!!!

To my experience Zaan has been going through walls once procced and no stam build outside of a ganker or stam sorc on its overload bar will be able to use purge without gimping themselves severely. Thats not a reliable counter. And if your enemy that happens to be using Zaan knows how to stay close then you can't dodge roll or sprint away.

Then figure out other ways of countering it. This permanent crying for nerfs is so tiresome.

ArchMikem

Thats not how recaps work. The damage you see isnt the amount you took, its the amount you wouldve taken if the full channel hit you. The recap told you zaan hit you for 15k but you really only took like 2k or 5k before losing.

Zaan is fine.

Abysswarrior45

ArchMikem wrote: »

Thats not how recaps work. The damage you see isnt the amount you took, its the amount you wouldve taken if the full channel hit you. The recap told you zaan hit you for 15k but you really only took like 2k or 5k before losing.

Zaan is fine.

I guarantee I took 15k because he was right on my tail during the full duration and the sap essence after was the last thing on my recap right under Zaan.