GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It actually happened: Cloak got fixed and doesn't break for no reason anymore and therefore the ability is completely overpowered now. I would suggest giving it the Streak treatment and in exchange maybe tune down the hardcounters for Cloak or give some Siphoning skills stam morphs if stamblade turns out to be too weak with a Cloak nerf (magblade already seems to be playable without Cloak from what I've seen).

Before other nightblades *** or hatemail me now keep in mind that I'm playing a nightblade by myself (stamnb since beta) and that one third of the Cyro population are currently nightblades and accept that the class will most likely get a nerf. "L2P", "git gud" and "Cloak is easy to counter" (which it is not unless you run mark target) doesn't help, do some useful suggestions and hope that ZOS will not nerf the wrong things instead (or stay out of this thread please).

Greetings

You don't even give reasonable claims for why cloak is supposedly "completely overpowered."

Funny how your post asks people to stay away unless they have "useful suggestions" to counter your claim, but you don't even make a strong claim to begin with.

The reason why Cloak is too strong is because you can engage and disengage the fight whenever you want unless you get hardcountered with mark target.

idk wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It actually happened: Cloak got fixed and doesn't break for no reason anymore and therefore the ability is completely overpowered now. I would suggest giving it the Streak treatment and in exchange maybe tune down the hardcounters for Cloak or give some Siphoning skills stam morphs if stamblade turns out to be too weak with a Cloak nerf (magblade already seems to be playable without Cloak from what I've seen).

Before other nightblades *** or hatemail me now keep in mind that I'm playing a nightblade by myself (stamnb since beta) and that one third of the Cyro population are currently nightblades and accept that the class will most likely get a nerf. "L2P", "git gud" and "Cloak is easy to counter" (which it is not unless you run mark target) doesn't help, do some useful suggestions and hope that ZOS will not nerf the wrong things instead (or stay out of this thread please).

Greetings

You don't even give reasonable claims for why cloak is supposedly "completely overpowered."

Funny how your post asks people to stay away unless they have "useful suggestions" to counter your claim, but you don't even make a strong claim to begin with.

Useful suggestions would be ones that agree with OP. One of his fans already callled is fools for not seeing the sage wisdom or one if the best Stamblades in the game.

So what would be your suggestion to tune down nightblades? Or do you pretend that a class which is currently played by one third of the community is balanced?

I'm totally fine with people who disagree with me, nor do I claim to be the best or one of the best in anything (fun fact is that one of the best nightblades on our server who reached Grand Overlord on his nightblade by playing solo for most of the time actually agreed on that topic).
What I'm not fine with is are people who come into this thread to troll around (start talking about heavy armor bleed duel builds for example) and nightblade haters who never played the class nor know anything about it.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.
While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

Maryal wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.

In a way, ZOS wanted cloak to be a spamable skill. This was back when they nerfed cloak by removing it's purge effect.

It used to be that NBs need only cloak 1x to access a purge effect (cloak used to remove 1 negative effect, much like the Warden's Betty Netch). Unfortunately, back then, many people complained about the NB's having a 'free' purge compared to the resource cost many others had to 'pay' to use the alliance support skill 'purge.'

Well, ZOS fixed that issue! They a.) removed the 'free purge' from NB's cloak, and b.) replaced it with a sort-of 'purge-like-effect' ... but there was a catch! In order to make full use of this 'purge-like-effect', NBs had to spam cloak several times in a row. Problem solved! By putting NBs in the position of having to spam cloak, ZOS indirectly increased the NBs cost to access this 'purge-like-effect' which, in turn, helped to level out the playing field when it came to the 'purge cost' issue.

While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

I hope that you make difference between sneak/stealth and invisibility/vanish in ESO.
These sets do not work vs cloak.

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.

In a way, ZOS wanted cloak to be a spamable skill. This was back when they nerfed cloak by removing it's purge effect.

It used to be that NBs need only cloak 1x to access a purge effect (cloak used to remove 1 negative effect, much like the Warden's Betty Netch). Unfortunately, back then, many people complained about the NB's having a 'free' purge compared to the resource cost many others had to 'pay' to use the alliance support skill 'purge.'

Well, ZOS fixed that issue! They a.) removed the 'free purge' from NB's cloak, and b.) replaced it with a sort-of 'purge-like-effect' ... but there was a catch! In order to make full use of this 'purge-like-effect', NBs had to spam cloak several times in a row. Problem solved! By putting NBs in the position of having to spam cloak, ZOS indirectly increased the NBs cost to access this 'purge-like-effect' which, in turn, helped to level out the playing field when it came to the 'purge cost' issue.

While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

Again. Good point bringing up the counters to cloak again. Even OP has stated the hard counters stop NBs from cloaking. I am still waiting fir the logic as to why cloak needs to be nerfed.

Can you explain what counter are these 2 sets to cloak?

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.

In a way, ZOS wanted cloak to be a spamable skill. This was back when they nerfed cloak by removing it's purge effect.

It used to be that NBs need only cloak 1x to access a purge effect (cloak used to remove 1 negative effect, much like the Warden's Betty Netch). Unfortunately, back then, many people complained about the NB's having a 'free' purge compared to the resource cost many others had to 'pay' to use the alliance support skill 'purge.'

Well, ZOS fixed that issue! They a.) removed the 'free purge' from NB's cloak, and b.) replaced it with a sort-of 'purge-like-effect' ... but there was a catch! In order to make full use of this 'purge-like-effect', NBs had to spam cloak several times in a row. Problem solved! By putting NBs in the position of having to spam cloak, ZOS indirectly increased the NBs cost to access this 'purge-like-effect' which, in turn, helped to level out the playing field when it came to the 'purge cost' issue.

While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

Again. Good point bringing up the counters to cloak again. Even OP has stated the hard counters stop NBs from cloaking. I am still waiting fir the logic as to why cloak needs to be nerfed.

The hardcounteres (which is basically only Mark Target) should get tuned down as well. Currently Cloak is either 100% overperforming or useless.

I agree that the only hard counter is Mark target. It is also ironic that the skill belongs to the same class that can cloak. If you want to beat them, join them

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It actually happened: Cloak got fixed and doesn't break for no reason anymore and therefore the ability is completely overpowered now. I would suggest giving it the Streak treatment and in exchange maybe tune down the hardcounters for Cloak or give some Siphoning skills stam morphs if stamblade turns out to be too weak with a Cloak nerf (magblade already seems to be playable without Cloak from what I've seen).

Before other nightblades *** or hatemail me now keep in mind that I'm playing a nightblade by myself (stamnb since beta) and that one third of the Cyro population are currently nightblades and accept that the class will most likely get a nerf. "L2P", "git gud" and "Cloak is easy to counter" (which it is not unless you run mark target) doesn't help, do some useful suggestions and hope that ZOS will not nerf the wrong things instead (or stay out of this thread please).

Greetings

You don't even give reasonable claims for why cloak is supposedly "completely overpowered."

Funny how your post asks people to stay away unless they have "useful suggestions" to counter your claim, but you don't even make a strong claim to begin with.

The reason why Cloak is too strong is because you can engage and disengage the fight whenever you want unless you get hardcountered with mark target.

idk wrote: »

GrumpyDuckling wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It actually happened: Cloak got fixed and doesn't break for no reason anymore and therefore the ability is completely overpowered now. I would suggest giving it the Streak treatment and in exchange maybe tune down the hardcounters for Cloak or give some Siphoning skills stam morphs if stamblade turns out to be too weak with a Cloak nerf (magblade already seems to be playable without Cloak from what I've seen).

Before other nightblades *** or hatemail me now keep in mind that I'm playing a nightblade by myself (stamnb since beta) and that one third of the Cyro population are currently nightblades and accept that the class will most likely get a nerf. "L2P", "git gud" and "Cloak is easy to counter" (which it is not unless you run mark target) doesn't help, do some useful suggestions and hope that ZOS will not nerf the wrong things instead (or stay out of this thread please).

Greetings

You don't even give reasonable claims for why cloak is supposedly "completely overpowered."

Funny how your post asks people to stay away unless they have "useful suggestions" to counter your claim, but you don't even make a strong claim to begin with.

Useful suggestions would be ones that agree with OP. One of his fans already callled is fools for not seeing the sage wisdom or one if the best Stamblades in the game.

So what would be your suggestion to tune down nightblades? Or do you pretend that a class which is currently played by one third of the community is balanced?

I'm totally fine with people who disagree with me, nor do I claim to be the best or one of the best in anything (fun fact is that one of the best nightblades on our server who reached Grand Overlord on his nightblade by playing solo for most of the time actually agreed on that topic).
What I'm not fine with is are people who come into this thread to troll around (start talking about heavy armor bleed duel builds for example) and nightblade haters who never played the class nor know anything about it.

Your statement that "you can engage and disengage the fight whenever you want unless you get hardcountered with mark target" is flawed. Some of those flaws have already been pointed out by other posters - most notably the fact that there are multiple hard counters:

Magelight
Expert hunter
Mark target
Revealing flare
Detect potions
Any aoe ability

It's very hard to agree with your statement that cloak is "completely overpowered" when you thus far have been unable to prove it.

Joy_Division wrote: »

What's up with all the nerf NB posts lately?

Stop with the nerf threads already.

Someone for ganked, or more likely tried to gank someone else and was denied their precious kill, so now they're throwing a hissyfit about it. The usual PvP drama.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.

In a way, ZOS wanted cloak to be a spamable skill. This was back when they nerfed cloak by removing it's purge effect.

It used to be that NBs need only cloak 1x to access a purge effect (cloak used to remove 1 negative effect, much like the Warden's Betty Netch). Unfortunately, back then, many people complained about the NB's having a 'free' purge compared to the resource cost many others had to 'pay' to use the alliance support skill 'purge.'

Well, ZOS fixed that issue! They a.) removed the 'free purge' from NB's cloak, and b.) replaced it with a sort-of 'purge-like-effect' ... but there was a catch! In order to make full use of this 'purge-like-effect', NBs had to spam cloak several times in a row. Problem solved! By putting NBs in the position of having to spam cloak, ZOS indirectly increased the NBs cost to access this 'purge-like-effect' which, in turn, helped to level out the playing field when it came to the 'purge cost' issue.

While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

Again. Good point bringing up the counters to cloak again. Even OP has stated the hard counters stop NBs from cloaking. I am still waiting fir the logic as to why cloak needs to be nerfed.

The hardcounteres (which is basically only Mark Target) should get tuned down as well. Currently Cloak is either 100% overperforming or useless.

You mad about yer DK bro?

Ya, again, so many more hard counters than Mark, and frankly better ones...

So nerf cloak but nerf all the hard counters as well?

Good plan...

Joy_Division wrote: »

What's up with all the nerf NB posts lately?

Stop with the nerf threads already.

Sorcs were FOTM. Sorc nerf threads happen. Wardens were FOTM. Warden nerf threads happen. NB becomes FOTM. NB nerf threads happen. DK/Temp FOTM when?

I don't specifically think it needs death as these threads are saying. But compare it to literally every other defense mechanic in the game and cloak comes ahead by miles. And then you have the total disengagement part. Sure its breakable, but so is block e.g. Even shields, the thing with no specific ability counter has a hard limit on how much it can absorb.

What made cloak balanced was its bugs.

Cloak is fine I haven't had any problems playing against anyone using this ability besides that magblade who just cloaks and spams cripple, and while very annoying it's not game breaking. A stamblade cloaking has never really been a problem for me because if they want to sustain it in combat they will probably need to use drinks and this means their health will usually be in one shot range. One undodgeable ultimate CC and a follow up burst ability and it's usually game over. This is why they are usually bad 1v1. I think the reason you see a lot of nightblades is the class is just east to pick up and play. It has a gap closer, a high spammable DPS ability, a unblockable cc, and cloak which average and below average players can't deal with. But I wouldn't consider nightblade the best class right now. The warden class is a little op right now, and Templar is just as easy to play nightblade. Mag dk is still a Demi god 1v1

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Maryal wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Magelight.
Expert hunter.
Mark target.
Revealing flare.
Detect potions.
Any aoe ability.

Those are all hard counters to cloak.

A stamina nightblade can cloak 3-4 times before using up all magicka. He might get one more in if he uses a magicka potion. Its actually smarter to use an invisibility potion at that point for 15-20 seconds of invis, which is probably what a lot of players are doing and it gets misconstrued as cloak, but any class can use those.

Streak has no reliable counters, even gap closers just took a hefty nerf with Dragon bones. Sorcs still complaining like always though.

In addition to the above, there are also (at least) 2 armor sets that also counter sneak:

Sentry
(5 items) Increases the radius you can detect Sneaking enemies by 50%. Increases your damage done to Sneaking enemies by 20%.
Way of Air
(4 items) Increases stealth detection radius by 2 meters.

I can't think of any other skill in this game that that been given so many counters to it as cloak.

In a way, ZOS wanted cloak to be a spamable skill. This was back when they nerfed cloak by removing it's purge effect.

It used to be that NBs need only cloak 1x to access a purge effect (cloak used to remove 1 negative effect, much like the Warden's Betty Netch). Unfortunately, back then, many people complained about the NB's having a 'free' purge compared to the resource cost many others had to 'pay' to use the alliance support skill 'purge.'

Well, ZOS fixed that issue! They a.) removed the 'free purge' from NB's cloak, and b.) replaced it with a sort-of 'purge-like-effect' ... but there was a catch! In order to make full use of this 'purge-like-effect', NBs had to spam cloak several times in a row. Problem solved! By putting NBs in the position of having to spam cloak, ZOS indirectly increased the NBs cost to access this 'purge-like-effect' which, in turn, helped to level out the playing field when it came to the 'purge cost' issue.

While I think cloak is fine the way it is, IF it were changed to dampen it's 'spamability', then 2 things would need to happen:
a.) Return the purge back to cloak; and
b.) increase the duration of cloak to 6 seconds.

if someone is reading this thread seriously to find a way to solve the nightblade plague , please do not waste your gold and time on these garbage sets , they are actual garbage, and this player literally knows nothing and is just trying to defend his cheese.

The nerf NB argument (or 'logic' behind the argument) in this thread boils down to this:
1. NB's skill 'Cloak' is OP.
2. The ONLY effective counter to Cloak is a 'hard counter' and THAT is locked behind a skill given exclusively to NBs ... "Mark Target"
3. It's not 'fair' that only 1 class in the game gets a 'hard counter' to cloak, therefore, the only 'fair' thing to do is to nerf cloak.

Honestly, why anyone would refer to 'Mark Target' as the only 'hard counter' to cloak is strange since it can be the least effective 'counter' to 'cloak' this game has. Why? As soon as you are hit with 'Mark Target' the game immediately alerts you via audio and visual cues, so .... all you have to do is hit Purge once or twice to get rid of it (i.e., skill/experience issue). That being said, 'Mark Target' is one of many valid counters to 'Cloak' and, just like the other counter measures, its effectiveness depends on skill and experience (both offensive and defensive). The choice of which counter measure to use in a given situation cannot be looked at as a 'one-size-fits-all' proposition.

What this game really needs are more effective ways to 'counter' problems associated with: 'inexperience', 'under-skilled', and 'mediocrity'.

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

It actually happened: Cloak got fixed and doesn't break for no reason anymore and therefore the ability is completely overpowered now. I would suggest giving it the Streak treatment

Don't invoke ZOS "Sorc love" treatments on anyone, even those who you hate the most.

They have turned a class from fun and dynamic into a total piece of trash, where the main keyword is "cannot do".

"We wanted you to feel safer in your Ferrari, so we transformed it into a brick. Much safer now. Enjoy your stay!"