Jorvuld's Guidance, new pve healer set meta?

josiahva · February 2018

Lets all jump on this bandwagon like all the other meta builds. I was walking around in Mournhold last night and I saw the most depressing thing ever. Each and every single tank(aside from myself) was wearing Ebon. All because its meta and people want to be "the best" and the fact that every group seems to want their tank to wear that garbage set, I guess it doesnt matter how badly you tank as long as you are wearing meta sets. Come on guys, there are hundreds of sets(maybe?) in this game and everyone wears the same dozen ones. Why? I mean, I can understand it if you are going for trials leaderboards, but aside from that very niche run...why would you not at least try out something oddball when doing less difficult content?

AzraelKrieg · February 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Do we know yet what the unique pieces for Jorvuld's Guidance are, if any?

Probably won't be any. The new dungeons tend to not have any unique pieces for the sets. As for it being the new meta, I see it being so for the second healer in a trial where the main healer is a templar.

BuddyAces · February 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Lets all jump on this bandwagon like all the other meta builds. I was walking around in Mournhold last night and I saw the most depressing thing ever. Each and every single tank(aside from myself) was wearing Ebon. All because its meta and people want to be "the best" and the fact that every group seems to want their tank to wear that garbage set, I guess it doesnt matter how badly you tank as long as you are wearing meta sets. Come on guys, there are hundreds of sets(maybe?) in this game and everyone wears the same dozen ones. Why? I mean, I can understand it if you are going for trials leaderboards, but aside from that very niche run...why would you not at least try out something oddball when doing less difficult content?

Probably because it's a really good 4 man set that's super easy to get...

Most tanks run around with 2-3 different set combos or more. To give people crap for wearing it is just stupid.

Bladerunner1 · February 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Lets all jump on this bandwagon like all the other meta builds. I was walking around in Mournhold last night and I saw the most depressing thing ever. Each and every single tank(aside from myself) was wearing Ebon. All because its meta and people want to be "the best" and the fact that every group seems to want their tank to wear that garbage set, I guess it doesnt matter how badly you tank as long as you are wearing meta sets. Come on guys, there are hundreds of sets(maybe?) in this game and everyone wears the same dozen ones. Why? I mean, I can understand it if you are going for trials leaderboards, but aside from that very niche run...why would you not at least try out something oddball when doing less difficult content?

Yeah, Ebon is a pretty dumb meta from a min/max perspective. A minority of the DPS might use the purple drink. They might truly benefit from the health buff, effectively giving them the opportunity to slot a little more magicka or stamina for a whopping 1.5% dps buff. The rest of the group is probably using blue food and doesn't get a whole lot out of the set besides a little more cushion for error, so the real group "DPS buff" of ebon might be 0.5%.

Jorvuld's 40% extra buff time at least seems consequential, more than a lot of "BIS" support sets.

Tasear · February 2018

Looks naturally better on warden buffs and dragon knight healers and some unique playstyles.

SaintSubwayy · February 2018

Goshua wrote: »

40% buff to all buffs.. how many allies anyone know? early, but to me that's sounds crazy

well Major Slayer from Master Architect isnt working, cause its a proc -.^

Princess_Ciri · February 2018

I use it on my templar now for most raids, there's not really any reason to use another set above it apart from in very specific situations.

jssriot · February 2018

I heal and dps dungeons and I have zero complaint about tanks wearing Ebon. Z E R O.

And my tank wears it, because it's easy to get, as been said, and it's still a very good set, despite all the people who want to look extra savvy for dissing it.

I will farm JG eventually, I guess. It doesn't help that so many other people are trying to farm it and I have to compete half the server being healers these days because they're too lazy to play dps once and a while. And damn, the attitude and snobbery I've been getting--like as soon as you tell someone you want to farm it, they don't want to group with you because they want all the JG drops from that run or whatever. But honestly my motivation was cut in half when some healers who tested it out the PST told me it's not really that much better, if any, than Mending. And I already have Mending. Now if someone told me JG staves had some cool effect like the purply pink pom-poms that mending's does, then maybe I'd be more driven to farm it...

Asardes · February 2018

Sets like Worm Cult and Ebon are very effective in trials because they can be worn by just one player yet provide bonuses to 12 players. In dungeons and vDSA however you are only providing those bonuses to 4 players. Running 3 DD + Tank has become pretty much the norm for such content, so the healer role is limited at best to an off-healer role by one of the DDs, be it magicka Templar that heals with Ritual of Retribution and supports with Blazing Spear, Nightblade that heals with Funnel Health and even Sorcerer who slots Twilight Matriarch. The tank is pretty much on his own, and thus is better of with a "selfish" build that provides self heals and/or sustain. I've settled on a combination of Armor of the Seducer and Akaviri Dragonguard - the latter can be also seen as a group buffs since, being the only one slotting Aggressive Horn, I want it to go off as much as possible - topped with 1 Choklethorn 1 Shaworend to stack as much magicka recovery as I can and thus sustain better all the DK tanking skills which are magicka, as well as the stamina pool in perma-block situations trough Igneous Shield spam (Helping Hands passive).

Coming back to Jorvuld's Guidance set on healers, the most important buff that will be extended is Major Force (+15% critical damage done) from Aggressive Horn, from 9.5s to 13.3s, a 3.8s increase. Assuming a 50s group horn rotation with both tanks and healers running it, and those healers both running this set that would bring maximum theoretical Major Force up time from 76% to 91.2%, so a 15.2% higher up time for 15% critical damage increase. Assuming the average DD in group has a critical rating of 60%, this would be around 1.35% increase in the group DPS. Note that this is the theoretical limit, and in practice this will be lower, due to imperfect horn synchronization, and/or people running other ultimate abilities, for example healers running Solar Prison instead for damage mitigation (ex. vAA HM execute phase). Other buffs provided by the healer can be easily kept at 100% by recasting the respective skills before they expire, which is trivial, such as Combat Prayer (Minor Berserk - 8% damage done, Minor Resolve & Ward - 1.3K physical and spell resistance), Elemental Drain (Major Breach - 5.3K spell penetration and Minor Magickasteal - 300/s) or even Power of the Light (Minor Breach and Fracture - 1.3K spell and physical penetration) - but that skill is arguably best provided by a stamina Templar DD due to the fact the damage copied scales on maximum stamina. Lastly shields, where improved duration is a non-issue, since when taking damage the shield will be depleted long before it expires, and healers can only provide the group with a shield if they cast Barrier, which already has 30s duration and will be probably depleted long before that since that ultimate is only used as emergency, being slotted mostly for the passive. If it were to also increase the debuff duration, it may be worth taking for extending Major Maim from Nova in specific situations.

And that's only considering the set by itself. When comparing it with the alternatives, it becomes even more clear why it's not that good. You will have to drop sets like:
- Spellpower Cure: 258 spell and weapon damage for up to 6 people - that can be kept at 90% up time if you stack heals over time and keep people at full health, so it's 230 on average, and it also scales with whatever multipliers you have for that, between 1.25-1.40 so it's more like 280-320 in practice. That's basically a 6-9% buff to spell and weapon damage, which translates to roughly 3-5% overall damage done when considering how different abilities scale. So it will be not a very good trade-off.
- Healing Mage (aka. Mending): -430 weapon damage for all enemies in the area where you use AoE heals (Healing Springs, Extended Ritual, Combat Prayer). For some mechanics that may be the difference between holding on to the last 10% of your HP when some things go boom and pushing daisies. If the group feels confident enough not to get gibbed, you can swap it for Jorvuld's for that ~1.2% extra damage from higher Major Force up time.
- Twilight Remedy: an extra heal and Minor Force for 10s. Only considering orbs synergy that would mean a 50% up time for a buff that amps your critical damage by 10%. Considering the same average critical rating of 60% this will translate to a ~3% DPS increase for those DDs that don't run Rearming Trap - Magicka Sorcerers and Nightblades - that will pop your orbs.
- Worm's Raiment: -4% spell cost for everyone may not seem much, but over longer fights it adds up quite a lot.
- Master Architect & Jorvuld's Guidanc may seem like a good idea at first glance, but this is not the case, since the self-buff will be mostly lost, due to the fact Jorvuld’s Guidance doesn't have any set bonuses that increase your damage so that 25% increase to your 10K DPS as healer won't really matter (same issue with War Machine on tank). The former would be much better used by a ranged DD since the self buff would be efficiently used. Another issue if using this set is what ultimate will you use it with? Light's Champion only buffs yourself or another ally, so the buff is not really doing much, even if it costs half of what Horn does.

Overall, I consider Jorvuld's Guidance a good set, but not good enough to use over established ones, even more so in a trial group.

LordSemaj · February 2018

Wardens spam those minors and majors already.

zaria · February 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Looks naturally better on warden buffs and dragon knight healers and some unique playstyles.

Nice on healer in dungeons simply because of longer uptime of hot and buffs also you shield, 6 second is idiotic short.
If nothing else the longer hot uptime let you stay longer on destro staff and doing more damage, as other say you also get higher horn up-time.
For trials i'm not sure how good it is

VilniusNastavnik · February 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Lets all jump on this bandwagon like all the other meta builds. I was walking around in Mournhold last night and I saw the most depressing thing ever. Each and every single tank(aside from myself) was wearing Ebon. All because its meta and people want to be "the best" and the fact that every group seems to want their tank to wear that garbage set, I guess it doesnt matter how badly you tank as long as you are wearing meta sets. Come on guys, there are hundreds of sets(maybe?) in this game and everyone wears the same dozen ones. Why? I mean, I can understand it if you are going for trials leaderboards, but aside from that very niche run...why would you not at least try out something oddball when doing less difficult content?

My Warden tank runs Plague Doctor, Master Architect, and Lord Warden. Designed to fill the roll of healer and tank in all dungeons to bring 3 DPS. Not something I would bring into trials though. 40K Health, 30K Magicka, 17K Stamina, 31K resistances.

Stinkyremy · February 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

Jorvuld’s Guidance (Light)
Magicka Recovery
Magicka Recovery
Healing Done
Increases the duration of all Major buffs, Minor buffs, and damage shields you apply to yourself and allies by 40%.

Well Idk about meta, I am not really into that stuff, but I could imagine healer meta will change with this that it will be 1 templar, 1 warden healer for the low ult cost using this set and a major aegis buff set from hof

zaria · February 2018

VilniusNastavnik wrote: »

josiahva wrote: »

Lets all jump on this bandwagon like all the other meta builds. I was walking around in Mournhold last night and I saw the most depressing thing ever. Each and every single tank(aside from myself) was wearing Ebon. All because its meta and people want to be "the best" and the fact that every group seems to want their tank to wear that garbage set, I guess it doesnt matter how badly you tank as long as you are wearing meta sets. Come on guys, there are hundreds of sets(maybe?) in this game and everyone wears the same dozen ones. Why? I mean, I can understand it if you are going for trials leaderboards, but aside from that very niche run...why would you not at least try out something oddball when doing less difficult content?

My Warden tank runs Plague Doctor, Master Architect, and Lord Warden. Designed to fill the roll of healer and tank in all dungeons to bring 3 DPS. Not something I would bring into trials though. 40K Health, 30K Magicka, 17K Stamina, 31K resistances.

The healer+ tank is an very interesting build, yes its bit specialized as it don't work in dungeon finder but awesome.
Damage healer works decently, damage tank has an bad reputation of DD with inner fire running in large circles with boss chasing them

Sordidfairytale · March 2018

josiahva wrote: »

...Come on guys, there are hundreds of sets(maybe?)...

At last count there are 317 different sets in the game.

SquareSausage · March 2018

So a templar casting Agrresive Horn every 80s (240 ult, 3ult/s) on cd for an extra 3.8 secs of 0.15 crit damage.

Cant see that being worth the drop in the 5th piece at all.

Princess_Ciri · March 2018

assuming your DDs don't have sustain or l2notdie issues, Jorvuld's is better than worm or mending or other healer sets in most situations, and it increases the dps of more players than master architect. i have started using it with spc in most raid situations.

Nifty2g · March 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Sets like Worm Cult and Ebon are very effective in trials because they can be worn by just one player yet provide bonuses to 12 players. In dungeons and vDSA however you are only providing those bonuses to 4 players. Running 3 DD + Tank has become pretty much the norm for such content, so the healer role is limited at best to an off-healer role by one of the DDs, be it magicka Templar that heals with Ritual of Retribution and supports with Blazing Spear, Nightblade that heals with Funnel Health and even Sorcerer who slots Twilight Matriarch. The tank is pretty much on his own, and thus is better of with a "selfish" build that provides self heals and/or sustain. I've settled on a combination of Armor of the Seducer and Akaviri Dragonguard - the latter can be also seen as a group buffs since, being the only one slotting Aggressive Horn, I want it to go off as much as possible - topped with 1 Choklethorn 1 Shaworend to stack as much magicka recovery as I can and thus sustain better all the DK tanking skills which are magicka, as well as the stamina pool in perma-block situations trough Igneous Shield spam (Helping Hands passive).

Coming back to Jorvuld's Guidance set on healers, the most important buff that will be extended is Major Force (+15% critical damage done) from Aggressive Horn, from 9.5s to 13.3s, a 3.8s increase. Assuming a 50s group horn rotation with both tanks and healers running it, and those healers both running this set that would bring maximum theoretical Major Force up time from 76% to 91.2%, so a 15.2% higher up time for 15% critical damage increase. Assuming the average DD in group has a critical rating of 60%, this would be around 1.35% increase in the group DPS. Note that this is the theoretical limit, and in practice this will be lower, due to imperfect horn synchronization, and/or people running other ultimate abilities, for example healers running Solar Prison instead for damage mitigation (ex. vAA HM execute phase). Other buffs provided by the healer can be easily kept at 100% by recasting the respective skills before they expire, which is trivial, such as Combat Prayer (Minor Berserk - 8% damage done, Minor Resolve & Ward - 1.3K physical and spell resistance), Elemental Drain (Major Breach - 5.3K spell penetration and Minor Magickasteal - 300/s) or even Power of the Light (Minor Breach and Fracture - 1.3K spell and physical penetration) - but that skill is arguably best provided by a stamina Templar DD due to the fact the damage copied scales on maximum stamina. Lastly shields, where improved duration is a non-issue, since when taking damage the shield will be depleted long before it expires, and healers can only provide the group with a shield if they cast Barrier, which already has 30s duration and will be probably depleted long before that since that ultimate is only used as emergency, being slotted mostly for the passive. If it were to also increase the debuff duration, it may be worth taking for extending Major Maim from Nova in specific situations.

And that's only considering the set by itself. When comparing it with the alternatives, it becomes even more clear why it's not that good. You will have to drop sets like:
- Spellpower Cure: 258 spell and weapon damage for up to 6 people - that can be kept at 90% up time if you stack heals over time and keep people at full health, so it's 230 on average, and it also scales with whatever multipliers you have for that, between 1.25-1.40 so it's more like 280-320 in practice. That's basically a 6-9% buff to spell and weapon damage, which translates to roughly 3-5% overall damage done when considering how different abilities scale. So it will be not a very good trade-off.
- Healing Mage (aka. Mending): -430 weapon damage for all enemies in the area where you use AoE heals (Healing Springs, Extended Ritual, Combat Prayer). For some mechanics that may be the difference between holding on to the last 10% of your HP when some things go boom and pushing daisies. If the group feels confident enough not to get gibbed, you can swap it for Jorvuld's for that ~1.2% extra damage from higher Major Force up time.
- Twilight Remedy: an extra heal and Minor Force for 10s. Only considering orbs synergy that would mean a 50% up time for a buff that amps your critical damage by 10%. Considering the same average critical rating of 60% this will translate to a ~3% DPS increase for those DDs that don't run Rearming Trap - Magicka Sorcerers and Nightblades - that will pop your orbs.
- Worm's Raiment: -4% spell cost for everyone may not seem much, but over longer fights it adds up quite a lot.
- Master Architect & Jorvuld's Guidanc may seem like a good idea at first glance, but this is not the case, since the self-buff will be mostly lost, due to the fact Jorvuld’s Guidance doesn't have any set bonuses that increase your damage so that 25% increase to your 10K DPS as healer won't really matter (same issue with War Machine on tank). The former would be much better used by a ranged DD since the self buff would be efficiently used. Another issue if using this set is what ultimate will you use it with? Light's Champion only buffs yourself or another ally, so the buff is not really doing much, even if it costs half of what Horn does.

Overall, I consider Jorvuld's Guidance a good set, but not good enough to use over established ones, even more so in a trial group.

Spell power cure is a must have, you combine it with the other sets

Worm cult is flat out garbage, put it into perspective you save yourself 1-3 casts every minute, it isn't exactly the best, you could gain more sustain by just heavy attacking an off balanced boss once or twice than waste a support set

Mending is good for trash stacking but you don't need it for every scenario and every boss fight, it's good to swap it out

Twilight Remedy has always been meh at best

Master Architect is better on a dd than a healer

Jorvulds is something that you will most likely pair SPC with, as in trials you have 2 healers, both in spc and combine it with something else, so it will be likely you will always see a healer in jorvulds.
Jorvulds buffs more than just warhorn