BGs matchmaking system is not acceptable.

Maulkin · February 2018

Thogard wrote: »

1. Allow a lobby

2. Allow us to get 12 people into that lobby through a raid

3. Allow the raid leader to either set the teams for 4v4v4 or have a button for “randomize”

4. There’s your BG

We’re already doing it, but it would be easier with a lobby so we don’t have to wait for all 12 to get the same queue pop.

I'm not opposed to the idea in the slightest, custom games in general are pretty common thing in all other games. However this thread is about improving the quality of random games. So I find this post is a bit out of context with the thread

diplomatt wrote: »

MurderMostFoul wrote: »

what about trios?

same as for duos, randoms who want play bg vs premades can join as 4th or 3d and 4th to them, or they can invite someone to fill the group. With own choice.
Premade queue should be more professional league. Competition for the glory etc etc!

I'm definitely against hidden mechanism, which will provide premades fight vs randoms who didn't chose that. Even when population is very low. Separation is important thing.

If not, let all veterans possibility to join nonveteran campagn also. If they both will be "not enouch populated", why not? How u think, here no problems in such suggestions?

First off, you didn't fully answer the question about trios. If they can't play against premades, can they play against solo-duos or do they have to split up?

You talk about own choice, but you're seeing things only one way. For example, I'm someone who's happy to be either the +1 or part of the 3 in a 3+1 configuration going up against 4-man premades. But you're denying that choice. And if you advocate trios splitting up, you're also denying 3 friends the option to play together. That doesn't sound like a lot of 'own choice' to me.

You say that the 3+1 should join up and become a full-premade group before queuing to play in the large group queue. But how will they meet? That's the entire purpose of the queuing mechanism, to bring people together that otherwise could not get together.

You talk about full premade games being like a pro league. That's dreaming, it's a million miles off. There's no concept of fixed teams in ESO, there's no team rankings or team leaderboards, there's no tournaments. There's only 'quickplay' essentially and all we are talking about is trying to make it more balanced with the smallest fragmentation possible because the population is small.

The vet / non-vet analogy is very wide off the mark. There's two different things, the power of a char (level, sets, CPs etc) and quality of the player behind it (experience, skill etc.). What you're describing is definite difference in char power, which is something measurable and definite. And it is something that is largely non-existent once you have no-CP BGs. The quality of the player on the other hand is an unknown. The +1 on the 3+1 could be the best player in that match. It's nothing like having <50 lvl player. The loss of coordination by having one random is small. Too small to penalise 3-man groups by making them either split or find a 4th member if they want to queue.

Datthaw · February 2018

Match making system? What system? The blindfolded dart throw? Pin the tail on the donkey?

But in all seriousness BGS is an absolute mess. Probably the biggest screwup from zos yet.

montiferus · February 2018

They should open BGs up to all ESO accounts. For those of us who shelled out good money for Morrowind they can throw us some crowns or crown crates as a form of compensation.

They should add a 4v4 element.

They should allow you to pick the game mode you want. Frankly all of them are horrible except deathmatch imo.

They should institute a queue system like Maulkin is suggesting.

It really isn't that hard to fix BGs. Not sure why ZOS struggles so much to fix the broken aspects of their game.

Anethum · February 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

First off, you didn't fully answer the question about trios. If they can't play against premades, can they play against solo-duos or do they have to split up?

With simple separation of randoms and premades:
Duos and Trios can join to "premade" bgs with solo-players who chose this league and with anothe duos. There are a lot of people who like impossible like challenge. Part of them enjoy bg as they are now.
If they wan't run random league - only 1 way to disband and join as randoms. Fair.

TarrNokk · February 2018

I played Age of Conan over years before. There were pvp-minigames 6vs6 which imo is a better mode than XsvXvsX and you could queue only single not grouped. Many players called for grouping but never was implemented which was good, because those BGs have been almost balanced all the time.
ZOS could go a similar way and in terms of balancing the mechanics could separate tanks, DDs and healers into the groups.

ecru · February 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

This has been said countless of times. They don't even need 4 queues. Two will do fine:

2 Queues, a small and a large group queue, with solo players falling into both. Trio +1 random is strong enough to take on a Quartet (full premade). And solo players are fine mixing with duos.

This is both easier to implement than MMR and it will cause smaller fragmentation of the relatively small player base than proper MMR would cause.

This doesn't solve the problem because it assumes that all premades are well organized and skilled, when that isn't the case at all.

edit: To clarify, I believe that forcing all groups into a group queue would lead to the majority of players not wanting to queue with a full group. Queueing as a group would put them up against very well organized premades, they would get wiped over and over again, and not being interested in getting into discord and getting ultra competitive, they disband the group and stop queueing or split up into solo/duo queues to avoid the premade.

This situation was prevalent in Rift even with team sizes of 10 or 15 and group sizes limit to 5. Players were hesitant to form a full premade group with their friends because they did not want to get queued up against the other really good premades, even with 5-10 other players on their team to balance things out.

Ajaxduo · February 2018

premades need a separate queue for sure, I for one don't mind added challenge but I'm certain it puts a lot of newbies off PvP.

Maulkin · February 2018

ecru wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

This has been said countless of times. They don't even need 4 queues. Two will do fine:

2 Queues, a small and a large group queue, with solo players falling into both. Trio +1 random is strong enough to take on a Quartet (full premade). And solo players are fine mixing with duos.

This is both easier to implement than MMR and it will cause smaller fragmentation of the relatively small player base than proper MMR would cause.

This doesn't solve the problem because it assumes that all premades are well organized and skilled, when that isn't the case at all.

edit: To clarify, I believe that forcing all groups into a group queue would lead to the majority of players not wanting to queue with a full group. Queueing as a group would put them up against very well organized premades, they would get wiped over and over again, and not being interested in getting into discord and getting ultra competitive, they disband the group and stop queueing or split up into solo/duo queues to avoid the premade.

This situation was prevalent in Rift even with team sizes of 10 or 15 and group sizes limit to 5. Players were hesitant to form a full premade group with their friends because they did not want to get queued up against the other really good premades, even with 5-10 other players on their team to balance things out.

@ecru, a very well argumented point.

My counter argument to this would be that while segregating the 3 and 4-man premades is not a complete solution and it has its flaws, it's better than what we currently have. If I were to choose between these two evils:
a) Strong premades ruining BGs for solo-duos and
b) Below-average premades struggling in the premade queue

...then I don't know about you, but I'd accept b) over a) any day of the week. Because at least, as you mentioned in the example of Rift as well, those premades do have an option to split up. It's far from ideal, but what option do solo-duos have in the current state? None.

A full solution would also include rankings, so strong premades don't face weak premades and (similarly) strong players don't face weak players. But as we've said the problem with ranking in ESO is that the player base is potentially too tiny to split in more ways than two.

Overwatch has 7 ranks and also splits premades from randoms. Sadly we don't have 3 million active players in the BGs to do that. We hardly have couple of hundred. But of all the options I see, splitting large groups from solos and duos would deliver the biggest improvement for the smallest sacrifice.

Anethum · February 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

But as we've said the problem with ranking in ESO is that the player base is potentially too tiny to split in more ways than two.

and it will become more tiny day by day with current it's state with cp or without.
i stopped play bg until some ranking system or separation will be done (eso pvp is lagged - bad ping, lagspikes etc when more than few players around during 4 year and bg could be a good solution, but...).
And recommend everyone, who don't like to nuke randoms or fight as random vs premades, to do the same.

it's a waste of time and Zenimax ( @ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_Wrobel Can u react to anything about battlegrounds improvement of queue for separation and ranking at all? u're silent as stones about this, hell.) will not do anything untill we will qq but still eat this substance, which is not chocolate...
as statistics say, often people stop play eso (or buy a product in shops, or use services etc) at all when such problems do not resolve for a long time.
Battlegrounds exist almost 10 month. Few months of non-cp, then few cp, then again now non-cp...Future is?: cp again, non-cp, cp, non-cp...endless? I tired

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

This has been said countless of times. They don't even need 4 queues. Two will do fine:

2 Queues, a small and a large group queue, with solo players falling into both. Trio +1 random is strong enough to take on a Quartet (full premade). And solo players are fine mixing with duos.

This is both easier to implement than MMR and it will cause smaller fragmentation of the relatively small player base than proper MMR would cause.

I agree with everything but the quartet. The singing just makes it weird (too much like West Side Story w/Daedric setting).

The could group people according to tiers, like many other games do. It would allow a range of players on either side, but once you advanced to the next tier, you'd still be queued with similarly rated players on all teams.

It might lessen the large division there currently is now.