Players playing together will always be more effective than not.
ZoS has continually tried, they're just terrible at achieving their aim.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Players playing together will always be more effective than not.
ZoS has continually tried, they're just terrible at achieving their aim.
I'm happy to discuss any changes you consider they made to try and nerf coordination but we probably shouldn't hijack this thread to do so.
To me the majority of ZOS' changes have always been to support and benefit teamwork actually.
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »Players playing together will always be more effective than not.
ZoS has continually tried, they're just terrible at achieving their aim.
I'm happy to discuss any changes you consider they made to try and nerf coordination but we probably shouldn't hijack this thread to do so.
To me the majority of ZOS' changes have always been to support and benefit teamwork actually.
If you like.
I was drawn to this thread by the idea of Inevitable Det being buffed, cuz I remember a few cases of it being quite effective. There were a few fights VE had in Chalman back in the day where an EP guild, I forget if it was PM or SoTP, had us under oils and had 5-10 ppl just spamming inevitable det on us while we fought on the flags. It had something of the old "Unstable Wall of Elements while under Meatbags" effect: do you purge the oil and blow up the det?
The backbone of every top-end group has always been their speed and ability to efficiently purge negative effects. This is why ultimately, ZoS attempts to create DPS-based solutions failed. If you're specifically looking for some way to hurt a clumped group from range, you have to look at the core mechanics that make them work. Forcing them to tank damage/negative effects or purge and take burst is an interesting idea.
That said, there's really not enough high end groups left in the game to make this an issue.
Someone somewhere has suggested a change to inevitable detonation that i rather like:
ID no longer triggers when purged/cannot be purged (so it always blows up after 4 seconds).
ID does zero damage if there are less than X players in it's radius when it goes off.
However if there are more than X players, it simply instantly kills all enemies in the explosion radius.
X (and radius) can be adjusted for balance.
That should make them spread out
Not in the slightest.
Back in the day, short of another top-teir raid we were practically invincible when we weren’t *** around. You couldn’t heal debuff us, oil us. slow us, root us. We took keeps vs entire factions underneath constant oil and seige. On a good day pretty much the only way to stop us or a group like us was.... another group like us.
I ran rapids back in those days, I could keep a 24 man raid moving constantly while under heavy fire, solo. I even had time to DPS. After the nerfs you needed multiple people for a group that size, and highly specialized. For 16 man now you probably want 2 of those builds where that’s almost all they do and it’s still not as good as it was.
Purge was also much, much stronger. Groups like that functioned by insolating DPS with healers and support. The stronger the support skills, the more room for Dps, the stronger your wandering ball of death becomes.
Vilestride wrote: »
MaximillianDiE wrote: »Just bring back ground oils. With no aoe cap that would be the bomb
Vilestride wrote: »
LOL wut? You think all the templars on siege lines prefer to cast clensing constantly so people can use the purify synergy? Rather than simply run around hitting purge?
You dont think non grouped people also hit rapids before the zerg rushed into a keep?
I dont know where you get this idea that people only used them in groups. Its much easier to play support when the randoms you are supporting arent being snared, rooted and lit on fire constantly.
Vilestride wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »
LOL wut? You think all the templars on siege lines prefer to cast clensing constantly so people can use the purify synergy? Rather than simply run around hitting purge?
You dont think non grouped people also hit rapids before the zerg rushed into a keep?
I dont know where you get this idea that people only used them in groups. Its much easier to play support when the randoms you are supporting arent being snared, rooted and lit on fire constantly.
I mean realistically who is running a group support build and not playing in a group. Sorry but the logic of being in favour of players who run along supporting zergs but not being in favour of large organised group play doesn't coincide to me. Then again, I doubt I will ever understand the zerg surfing mentality.
Vilestride wrote: »
I mean realistically who is running a group support build and not playing in a group. Sorry but the logic of being in favour of players who run along supporting zergs but not being in favour of large organised group play doesn't coincide to me. Then again, I doubt I will ever understand the zerg surfing mentality.
Ehm. I was doing that all the time back when purge helped people around you. I wasn't "running a group support build", i simply switched one slot for purge when i saw it will be needed (cleansing oil from door siegers etc.)
Heck i am still doing it with siege shield today.
Vilestride wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »
LOL wut? You think all the templars on siege lines prefer to cast clensing constantly so people can use the purify synergy? Rather than simply run around hitting purge?
You dont think non grouped people also hit rapids before the zerg rushed into a keep?
I dont know where you get this idea that people only used them in groups. Its much easier to play support when the randoms you are supporting arent being snared, rooted and lit on fire constantly.
I mean realistically who is running a group support build and not playing in a group. Sorry but the logic of being in favour of players who run along supporting zergs but not being in favour of large organised group play doesn't coincide to me. Then again, I doubt I will ever understand the zerg surfing mentality.
Vilestride wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »
LOL wut? You think all the templars on siege lines prefer to cast clensing constantly so people can use the purify synergy? Rather than simply run around hitting purge?
You dont think non grouped people also hit rapids before the zerg rushed into a keep?
I dont know where you get this idea that people only used them in groups. Its much easier to play support when the randoms you are supporting arent being snared, rooted and lit on fire constantly.
Then again, I doubt I will ever understand the zerg surfing mentality.
Vilestride wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »Vilestride wrote: »
LOL wut? You think all the templars on siege lines prefer to cast clensing constantly so people can use the purify synergy? Rather than simply run around hitting purge?
You dont think non grouped people also hit rapids before the zerg rushed into a keep?
I dont know where you get this idea that people only used them in groups. Its much easier to play support when the randoms you are supporting arent being snared, rooted and lit on fire constantly.
Then again, I doubt I will ever understand the zerg surfing mentality.
Vilestride wrote: »You guys are right. The 50 man 'not groups ' moving back and forth between beakers, chal, ales on a regular basis that can be likened to a migrating heard need more support. There's not enough going for them. Revert the change please zeni. Cheeers
Sandman929 wrote: »They want the organized group to lose, but not by doing what's necessary to make themselves win...in the end the groups that work well together will use those tools to continue winning and the groups that don't like it will continue looking for the magic bullet to turn their success to failure.