Make Xv1 finally harder

BohnT · February 2018

Over the past 2 years the game became more and more casual friendly, along with making zergs more powerful than ever and destroying small scale pvp almost completely.
If you look how Cyro was advertised it was not solely ment to be a zerg fest. It was made to be played successfully by groups of all sizes.

With certain changes however numbers were truly favored and small groups or solo players got the shaft.

1. Change the Poison cooldown.
Right now the poison cooldown is attacker based and not like CC immunity target based. This means if multiple people attack you with poisons you get to receive all and effects of those poisons. This also means that small groups can affect less people with their poison while big zergs can apply poison to everyone of the smaller group making the already overperfoming poisons even stronger for Xv1

-Change the Poison cooldown to a poison immunity meaning: When you got hit by a poison you have a 10 seconds immunity to get hit by another poison.

2. Remove curse stacking. Curse is a powerful burst that has no counterplay outside of purging, with 3-4 sorcs applying curse to you they can kill you without counterplay available for you as it comes in one big burst which will then kill you ----> benefits numbers more than anything else

-Introduce a Curse limit for everything in the game, in PvP the curse limit is one meaning you can be affected by 1 curse at the same time (can not be overwritten by another curse), in group dungeons the curse limit for all enemies is 4 as you can only bring 4 sorcs to them and for Trials it's 12.

3. PotL / purifying Light need to be changed to only be charged by the damage the caster itself deals and not the damage the target receives from all sources. This makes the skill too zerg friendly as it can be spammed by healers/tanks which shouldn't be able to hit you with a hit >9k only because you get already zerged by his friends.

-Change it so only the damage the caster deals is applied to the end damage and not the damage of everyone. To balance this out the stored amount would have to be increased slightly to make it possible to still get the full charge

4. Earthgore makes zerging all the more easy and is a slap into the face for small groups. With the high cooldown it's impossible to have a good uptime with a small group. A big group however can have the set ready at all times and one proc alone is enough to save every member of the zerg

- Half the radius of the proc, reduce the healing by 60% but increase the duration to 8 seconds

These changes would make it more balanced when fighting with a smaller group against zergs, this doesn't mean however that they will win every fight as the zerg still has the advantage in numbers, damage and healing

lazerlaz · February 2018

100% agree with all these ideas. In fact, I can't see how zos didn't think this way from the start... Oh yea, they don't play or actually test their own game.

TequilaFire · February 2018

The game was not designed for you to play Superman either.
Your title says Xv1 not small scale groups.

LeagueTroll · February 2018

How about not buff 3 man group that camp resources, that think it is honorable to 3v1, yet not honorable 10v3.

TheZirex · February 2018

Uhm, zergs are supposed to be stronger than a 3 man group...

AzraelKrieg · February 2018

Poor little 1vXers. Whatever will they do now?

IlCanis_LupuslI · February 2018

LeagueTroll wrote: »

How about not buff 3 man group that camp resources, that think it is honorable to 3v1, yet not honorable 10v3.

Exactly, people [snip] about getting zerged ( 10v1 )writing hate mail (I was on healer) after they chased you all the way from ash 2 nikel 5 min earlier with 5 people :-D J'd really appreciate some consistency here with some people

[Edited to remove profanity]

Milvan · February 2018

PvP'ers rant a lot. I mean, c'mon.

BohnT · February 2018

Memo to myself: Never post anything balance related to a place where people,who lose a fight while outnumbering the enemies by a rate of 5:1, can see it

ShadowFire829b14_ESO · February 2018

Lol. Someone just complaining because they put themselves in a situation that resulted in death. New meta is purified light poisoned curse zerg trains. Damn. Bring back impulse batspam plsu.

technohic · February 2018

I don't think the OP is asking to 1 v X. Theres just a lot of things that favor more numbers and spamming a few things stronger than just having the numbers to begin with.

Felt a little better last night. Saw a ball group (not as good of one as Drac) and siege plus bombers were able to break them apart a bit. Still a little over tuned in that favor though.

generalmyrick · February 2018

THE most unfun thing to do in this game is chasing an mist spamming elitist around a tree...

so i view all changes through that lense...

so, no, make killing easier, not harder.

ShadowFire829b14_ESO · February 2018

In the end like most. L2P. Normally I dont respond like this. But your choices of skills that are a problem seem ridiculous. Multiple curses on a single target is a small group tactic as well. And one of the few tactics a sorc has out there when it comes to bursting/damaging. You would give more reason for a class to zerg someone down. With a change like that. As for purifying light.... it has a cap on the damage it deals. And is mitigated.

Dymence · February 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

The game was not designed for you to play Superman either.
Your title says Xv1 not small scale groups.

TheZirex wrote: »

Uhm, zergs are supposed to be stronger than a 3 man group...

Of course zergs are meant to be stronger. But there are so many mechanics in this game that favor them extra over small groups/solo players.

Having more people should be enough of a benefit over small groups/solo players. More people means more healing, more damage. And if they are bad, they should wipe to better players in a smaller scale. Not get carried by *** mechanics.

ecru · February 2018

I don't agree with changing curse stacking in pve (it would never happen anyway), but having multiple curses on you is definitely an issue in pvp that should probably be addressed. Delayed damage over time abilities that have the potential to stack and all execute around the same time leading to people instantly dying isn't really something that should be possible imo. Damage like that should be actively applied and therefore be able to be actively defended against.

brandonv516 · February 2018

There definitely needs to be a shared cooldown on poisons from all sources. I'd like to see Defile specifically have a cooldown of 3-5 seconds after being purged.

The changes to Curse I'd be okay with I suppose.

Backlash should have a morph for damage taken and one for damage dealt. This way the skill is not useless to tanks/healers. Not sure the stamina crowd would like this so best we leave it alone completely.

Earthgore nerfs are okay.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Cyrodiil was originally designed for groups of 8 to 24 players. That's what the tooltip for the Alliance War said. Its now been changes to groups of 2 to 24 players.

Now, in all practicality, we know that Cyrodiil supports a multitude of gameplay styles. Solos, gankers, bombers, small groups, PUGs, organized raids, zergs, faction stacks...Cyrodiil supports them all. But if you want to play tooltip games, Cyrodiil makes no guarantees about solo players and was originally designed for small groups of 8 players.

Now your small man group just got a huge buff relative to the zerg with the removal of AOE caps. As long as you have 6 or less players, you'll take the same amount of damage you always did while the zerg will take more. Mind you, that'll help a lot against a disorganized zerg or PUGs, but it probably won't help you much against an organized raid.

But apparently, you still need to ask for more nerfs...

(I'll agree with the Earthgore. One or two earthgore sets isn't a big deal. Organized raids that stack a whole bunch of them are annoying to fight and probably impossible for most small man groups to deal with.)

Emmagoldman · February 2018

There are plenty of small groups that wipe zergs.
This is daily. Set up an ap farm and watch zergs attempt to take a respurce for an hour.

Zergs are generally beginners, not on coms, pvers or casual getting quick ap or perfer to solo and zerg surfing.

Whats not zerging is a group a little bigger than yours. Always expecting the same numbers is a dream.

Organized groups will make 1 v x very challenging if not impossible. We do not allow squirelling and allow someone to get kited off. If someone is ganked, our whole group turns around. Generally, a tank is with rapids at rear. We stack ults and call targets (though working to get better). No coms, cant join

In all honesty, it sounds like you need to find a better small group or make sure if you 1 v x to not pome a hornets nest.

And curse, are you really tunning into that manu sorcs? In pc na shor, its a pretty rare sight

Universe · February 2018

1. I agree that poison is overperforming and I did suggest the following in the PTS combat balance feedback thread:

Lord wrote: »

*I believe that resource poisons(magicka/stamina) are still overperforming.
The 30% instead of 60% cost increase isn't enough to balance the combat between poison user/s to non poison user/s.
The cost increase should be max 5%-10%, especially with all the past nerfs to combat sustain in past updates.

2. Curse is fine, it is a useful sorcerer's burst ability and nerfing it will make it useless.

3. I agree that Power of the Light/Purifying Light is a bit too strong and needs some adjusting.

4. Earthgore was nerfed in the last patch:
Quote:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Earthgore: This item set’s proc now only dispels one enemy Area of Effect ability in its radius, instead of all of them.

So this set is fine now.

As for the 1vx:
All the videos of the "1vx" makes people think it is easy and everyone can do it.
The truth is that it is not easy at all and most of the videos are either fake/staged by fellow guild mates or friends/performed by known cheaters or macro users(yes, players do cheat and some of them even evade detection and continue to play to this day).
This game is not meant for 1vx, all the game mechanics make it extremely hard or not even possible, especially when facing fine/good players.

John_1999 · February 2018

POL is a good skill for small groups too, if you have a Templar with you.

Doctordarkspawn · February 2018

Stopped at 'casual friendly'.

Seems someone should go back to dark souls.

BohnT · February 2018

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Stopped at 'casual friendly'.

Seems someone should go back to dark souls.

Wasn't it you who said that you've stopped veteran dungeons because they are too hard?

Lord_Eomer · February 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Over the past 2 years the game became more and more casual friendly, along with making zergs more powerful than ever and destroying small scale pvp almost completely.
If you look how Cyro was advertised it was not solely ment to be a zerg fest. It was made to be played successfully by groups of all sizes.

With certain changes however numbers were truly favored and small groups or solo players got the shaft.

1. Change the Poison cooldown.
Right now the poison cooldown is attacker based and not like CC immunity target based. This means if multiple people attack you with poisons you get to receive all and effects of those poisons. This also means that small groups can affect less people with their poison while big zergs can apply poison to everyone of the smaller group making the already overperfoming poisons even stronger for Xv1

-Change the Poison cooldown to a poison immunity meaning: When you got hit by a poison you have a 10 seconds immunity to get hit by another poison.

2. Remove curse stacking. Curse is a powerful burst that has no counterplay outside of purging, with 3-4 sorcs applying curse to you they can kill you without counterplay available for you as it comes in one big burst which will then kill you ----> benefits numbers more than anything else

-Introduce a Curse limit for everything in the game, in PvP the curse limit is one meaning you can be affected by 1 curse at the same time (can not be overwritten by another curse), in group dungeons the curse limit for all enemies is 4 as you can only bring 4 sorcs to them and for Trials it's 12.

3. PotL / purifying Light need to be changed to only be charged by the damage the caster itself deals and not the damage the target receives from all sources. This makes the skill too zerg friendly as it can be spammed by healers/tanks which shouldn't be able to hit you with a hit >9k only because you get already zerged by his friends.

-Change it so only the damage the caster deals is applied to the end damage and not the damage of everyone. To balance this out the stored amount would have to be increased slightly to make it possible to still get the full charge

4. Earthgore makes zerging all the more easy and is a slap into the face for small groups. With the high cooldown it's impossible to have a good uptime with a small group. A big group however can have the set ready at all times and one proc alone is enough to save every member of the zerg

- Half the radius of the proc, reduce the healing by 60% but increase the duration to 8 seconds

These changes would make it more balanced when fighting with a smaller group against zergs, this doesn't mean however that they will win every fight as the zerg still has the advantage in numbers, damage and healing

Even ZOS made those changes then again you will die fighting zerg and will complain,

#StopBeingALoser

TheYKcid · February 2018

I can't support any further nerfs to magsorc burst... and I say this as a stamblade main.

Custos91 · February 2018

I think Wrobel said at some point that if you are hit by 7 abbilitys at the same time you should die, whatever those abbilitys are.

How many people do you expect to be able to counter?

vs Zerg you play bomber, vs Bomber you play ganker/smallscale, vs Smallscale you play Zerg, what is the issue again?
This games pvp is also objective based, you know, so why are all those threads not factoring in siege at all?

Can't even tell you how often I killed a Zerg just by ridingh up to them and firing 4 -6 sieges in at the same time...
That is smallscale for you^^
Make use of the tools you got, because your personal power has to be limited^^

Power of the light / Earthgore changes you want would make those things useless^^

Earthgore already has some serious issues^^ It tries to heal summons, it tries to heal chokethorn proccs after they die...
Get a Sniper who just snipes an enemy pet or scrub player and you will bait the Earthgore proccs on cooldown... a random healer with chokethorn in a zerg already means that earthgore will procc often, spell sym guys that just walk into the zerg will procc it, a shield stack sorc who streaks away will bait a procc...

None of those guys has to be grouped with them and can just procc the sets all the time... and you have no way to get rid of thosee guys as a zerg since you can't get rid of your own faction^^

Kuramas9tails · February 2018

The biggest issue is the fact that there's no changes to skill between PVP and PVE. Getting rid of curse stacking is a terrible idea for PVE. PVP, I can accommodate. That's been the biggest issue with every patch is how something is changed for PVP and hurts PVE or something that changes PVE hurts PVP. With the exception of Clever Alchemist.......I am looking at you PC players...you done ef'ed that one up.

Draxys · February 2018

Good ideas, wrong intentions. Xv1 will always be a thing, and they should never “make it harder”. But these changes would be good in general.

VaranisArano · February 2018

Lord wrote: »

4. Earthgore was nerfed in the last patch:
Quote:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Earthgore: This item set’s proc now only dispels one enemy Area of Effect ability in its radius, instead of all of them.

So this set is fine now.

Earthgore got nerfed, so its not a 1-proc win-button that it used to be.

It is still annoying AF to fight organized groups that stack 10+ Earthgore in their raid. I fought one that I know does that on Tuesday, and we eventually pulled them apart and killed them all but it took a very long time and overwhelming numbers to do that thanks to Earthgore healing carrying them through.

So from a small group perspective, I can see where players would think that Earthgore still needs adjustment.

Kode · February 2018

I'm not sure the problem. If you are attacked by more than one problem, run circles around a rock or tree till they get tired of it and leave. I thought that was what 1vXers were up to these days.

generalmyrick · February 2018

Kode wrote: »

I'm not sure the problem. If you are attacked by more than one problem, run circles around a rock or tree till they get tired of it and leave. I thought that was what 1vXers were up to these days.

Some guy did this and finally when he died by 2 of us he whispered me that it was a "good 1vx."

dude...you just ran in circles for 5 minutes! this is skill? :-)

in his defense he did eat up 2 bodies to just chase him off resources....

technohic · February 2018

Oy people. Xv1 does not mean 1vX. Really just talking about how mechanics make uneven numbers have an even greater effect than just having more numbers. Whether its 15v10 15v5 15v13. OP is clearly talking about things that make numbers greater than the sum of its parts. As someone said; you can't expect even numbers. So why make it even more damning when you run into a larger group.