Why Grim Focus and Morphs Feel Different

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno

I hate to be the guy that tags the devs, but I'll just say it. When arguably the best PVE player in your game points out a fundamental problem that you created for one of your premier DPS classes, you should probably listen and make the solution a priority.

Nighn_9 · February 2018

@LZH yeah it did feel a little off for some reason. Like the bow proc was a bit delayed for staff user

ol_BANK_lo · February 2018

LZH wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

And there is more...

Now when you exit combat though, the stacks will reset back to 0. In Maelstrom, every time a new wave of adds is spawning, you are technically exiting combat, and thus your stacks will be reset back to 0. This is obviously something ZoS failed to take into consideration when changing Grim Focus.

Merciless Resolve: https://youtube.com/watch?v=elEBGR9d4Ko
Relentless Focus: https://youtube.com/watch?v=w-2SPZ6C34Q

And of course not to mention the insanely laggy and delayed barswaping

Yeah nightblade is basically rip in vma/dsa with this change. Thanks for the videos.

From the patch notes:

"Grim Focus: The stacks you build towards the bow proc for this ability and its morphs will now remain if you recast the ability early, or if the ability expires. The partial stacks are removed if you exit combat."

I believe you could should have been able to continue your stack after using the ability. Yes, it's still more clunky, but I don't think you lost it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · February 2018

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

LZH wrote: »

Supernatural wrote: »

And there is more...

Now when you exit combat though, the stacks will reset back to 0. In Maelstrom, every time a new wave of adds is spawning, you are technically exiting combat, and thus your stacks will be reset back to 0. This is obviously something ZoS failed to take into consideration when changing Grim Focus.

Merciless Resolve: https://youtube.com/watch?v=elEBGR9d4Ko
Relentless Focus: https://youtube.com/watch?v=w-2SPZ6C34Q

And of course not to mention the insanely laggy and delayed barswaping

Yeah nightblade is basically rip in vma/dsa with this change. Thanks for the videos.

From the patch notes:

"Grim Focus: The stacks you build towards the bow proc for this ability and its morphs will now remain if you recast the ability early, or if the ability expires. The partial stacks are removed if you exit combat."

I believe you could should have been able to continue your stack after using the ability. Yes, it's still more clunky, but I don't think you lost it.

You are missing the part where you “exit combat” between each and every VMA wave. So in other words you cast merciless, kill a few adds with weaves to proc your bow, the next wave spawns with plenty of time left in your merciless timer, but poof, your bow proc is gone because you left combat for a second or two.

@BANK_IT_HERE
Edit: The other thing to realize is that dead to LZH is not necessarily dead to your average person. At last look, dude had the top score for every class in the arena on PC/NA. Mageblade is probably still one of the best classes for the arena for an average player. At the extreme end of things, however, VMA comes down to spawn/portal killing. If you lose your ability to use the bow proc for that aspect of the arena, it really hurts for those trying to push score into the stratosphere.

LZH · February 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Fallewarrior · February 2018

I agree with everything that has been said in this thread so far.
The changes make magblade feel really slow and clunky.
Can we please get an answer from @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Wrobel ?

Marabornwingrion · February 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Chris
@ZOS_Edward
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_Wrobel

LiquidPony · February 2018

LZH wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Well, that is the way it should work. Why should your light attack count if it hasn't hit a target yet? Why should it count at all if it never hit the target? Don't advocate for something that was broken to be broken again.

I wouldn't say it was broken. I would say that previously using grim focus felt good gameplay-wise, and now it feels bad.

Waiting for projectiles to land when all of the projectiles have different travel times seems really counter-intuitive to what ZOS's goals were with Grim Focus for this patch.

The really weird thing, to me, is that even on live pre-Dragon Bones there is sometimes (but not always) a delay in registering the light attack for a melee attack. As in, weaving LA-->Bow Proc often doesn't work and I actually have to let the LA animation play out before firing the bow.

Astrid_V wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Chris
@ZOS_Edward
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_Wrobel

I think I've seen more

this patch than in any single patch prior.

Off-balance nerf, broken Grim Focus, poor mag DKs, dumb block cost changes, bar swapping broken, XP bugs, items disappearing in the new housing containers, no retroactive level up rewards, exorbitant outfit system costs, EU down all day for the update, NA brought down immediately because of the XP bug ...

What a cluster. ZOS devs are not having a good week.

LZH · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

LZH wrote: »

sirrmattus wrote: »

Well, that is the way it should work. Why should your light attack count if it hasn't hit a target yet? Why should it count at all if it never hit the target? Don't advocate for something that was broken to be broken again.

I wouldn't say it was broken. I would say that previously using grim focus felt good gameplay-wise, and now it feels bad.

Waiting for projectiles to land when all of the projectiles have different travel times seems really counter-intuitive to what ZOS's goals were with Grim Focus for this patch.

The really weird thing, to me, is that even on live pre-Dragon Bones there is sometimes (but not always) a delay in registering the light attack for a melee attack. As in, weaving LA-->Bow Proc often doesn't work and I actually have to let the LA animation play out before firing the bow.

Astrid_V wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
@ZOS_Chris
@ZOS_Edward
@ZOS_RichLambert
@ZOS_Wrobel

I think I've seen more this patch than in any single patch prior.

Off-balance nerf, broken Grim Focus, poor mag DKs, dumb block cost changes, bar swapping broken, XP bugs, items disappearing in the new housing containers, no retroactive level up rewards, exorbitant outfit system costs, EU down all day for the update, NA brought down immediately because of the XP bug ...

What a cluster. ZOS devs are not having a good week.

In CWC:

1) Light attacks register as stacks immediately
2) The 5th stack has a very short delay before proccing assassin's will/scourge

In DB:

1) Light attack stacks register when the light attack does damage (immediately for DW, delay for projectiles)
2) The 5th stack has a very short delay before proccing assassin's will/scourge

There is still the same delay from 5th LA registering -> will/scourge proccing. The issue is the added delay we now have for projectiles to travel and hit the target. This is the reason that Stamblade feels no different but Magblade feels like a mess.

Vermintide · February 2018

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think there is a simple work around to this, if they are up to the coding. The glaring potential for abuse is obviously the stealthed mageblade ganker with a bow proc queued up. All you have to do is make it so you cant sneak with your bow proc'ed. I think you could still allow them to cloak without too much trouble, just no sneak. Would have no effect on PVE, and would solve or at least extremely mitigate the potential PVP issue.

Except that wouldn't do a thing TBH, my magblade can perma-stealth without ever dipping into authentic "sneak".

It's even simpler than all that. Like, ridiculously simple. The bow proc just has to stay up, until that instance of the buff falls off, after you exit combat. In combat, the proc is preserved. Out of combat, the proc resets at the end off the buff, like it used to. That's all that needs to happen.

The game needs to be like "Okay, he's not in combat anymore. When the Merciless buff ends, I will reset the bow proc", instead of what it is currently saying which is, "Okay, he's out of combat, GIVE ME THAT *** BOW YOU *** SUCKER"

jssriot · February 2018

My stamblades are getting stuck in place when they enter combat. I thought it might have been Relentless Focus, and tried unslotting it, but they still get stuck (started the night after the patch, confirmed still occurring when I did a dolmen just now).

I don't know what they did to NBs but mine are effed up. My two best dps toons--the ones I spent hours researching the meta and farming gear and practicing rotation--both unplayable for anything involving combat. How da eff am I suppose to do any content in this game with broken toons like this? They need to roll back whatever they did. I checked my account this morning to see when my sub renews, to keep in mind when I would need to cancel it because this is that bad.

BigBadVolk · February 2018

Also, If someone wrote it but for some reason maybe its intended but it didnt begin to "stack" the light attacks on mobs/bosses who went into an invulnarable state (trolls in vma when they enrage, and maybe olms, but not sure, sometimes it counted sometimes after a recast was I able to stack the light attacks for spectral)

Vermintide · February 2018

Something else I noticed: The stacks are now coming up as "long term effects" rather than a short term buff. Pretty annoying since I have those shoved in the corner of my screen whereas my main buffs are right there in the middle.