"Please note that anyone found exploiting will be handled on a case-by-case basis."

Runefang · February 2018

How do you determine who is 'exploiting'?

I mean if you have CP levels over 720 you probably don't even look at your XP to know what you're getting.

Also forget 'QA', it could easily have been a deployment issue. Did this issue exist on the PTS?

SynodicOracle · February 2018

I think all that should be done is the removal of the exploited XP from the players.

Yes, a ban would be excessive, but if this went unpunished it gives a huge advantage to people exploiting the bug. I don't think those who did it once, noticed and stopped will be penalised. But if you continue to do this despite knowing it was an exploit, it's always been against the rules and this shouldn't be an exception.

Yes, this is partly their fault. But it's partly yours if you did not stop. I have no doubt the only people complaining were those whom exploited it knowingly and are frightened of the consequences.

TL;DR If you're innocent you should be fine.

zyk · February 2018

SolidusPrime wrote: »

Cmon guys. They have no way of telling if alllll of these people were there because they heard of the exploit, or just happened to be going through the dungeon multiple times. I NEVER pay attention to the amount of XP I'm getting. Nothing is going to happen besides a fix.

It was obvious. You may not have noticed the hundreds of thousands of exp per kill, but you surely would have noticed new levels/CP every few seconds.

This is what happens when a company ignores 99% of cheating for almost 4 years: players trip over themselves to take advantage of bugs before they're fixed.

I hope ZOS puts the time in to at least retroactively solve the issue without a rollback so that those who took advantage of the problem don't benefit.

ol_BANK_lo · February 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Good. That means our most valued community members such as Twitch Streamers and people that spend lots of money in the crown store, will be given free passes based on how much they "contribute" to the bottom line.

Remember folks that "permanent" bans only mean they close your existing account and you are free to come back on a new one and do the same things.

They just perma-banned Kodi for breaking ToS...one of their top streamers.

Yes, they can come back, but it's a big deal for those that have spent years getting the best equipment.

KingMagaw · February 2018

@Astrid

Gina already said on a case by case basis. So your example of a general ban seems very unlikely.

What is more likely is a 3 day suspension for 1k+CP's (Almost certainly depending on how many crowns your spend VS The weight of punishment)

A few discords are shared with NA server where IC information was certainly passed along so when EU server started, a few key people went there very quickly

RDMyers65b14_ESO · February 2018

It seemed to me that leveling was going extremely slow.

MornaBaine · February 2018

Jacozilla wrote: »

Bottom line - ZOS screwed up, the only punishments they need to hand out is whoever somehow missed the XP gains bug in IC.

**And lets just examine that in perspective --> if ZOS punishes a player for 'not noticing' they were getting larger than pre-patch XP gains, how do they explain their own QA 'not noticing' the same?

This right here. I think what a lot of us are responding to is the "tone" of players being threatened when the real problem is with the game maker and instead of apologizing to us and offering some sort of compensation for all the down time they're going on the offensive.

Ackwalan · February 2018

Jacozilla wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Here come all the people with their excuses, claiming how they didn't notice because of bla bla bla.

To you the OP and the 14 ppl I saw Agree to this comment, let me ask a logical question -

Why should a player be punished for 'not noticing' xp gains when ZOS QA didn't either?

Now let me be clear - I'm positive there has to be -SOME- players that noticed, made the connection in brain this is clearly not intended or probably not intended, and either stopped or kept going. But point is they noticed, made the connection, and made a decision.

But what you seem to not be able to comprehend is the possibility that -SOME- players had the same or less observation that a paid staff of professionals who are presumably trained, expected, and is their job to spot things like this.

I agree re: punishing offenders of exploits. But you can't separate players in the same net in this case because of the magnitude of ZOS screwup.

The people that got a few levels (less then 5) before noticing what was going on are not the problem. The people that earned many levels (went form a low level to max level) are the problem. It's those people coming here claiming they didn't notice they gained 30 levels because they had the TV on, are the ones that need their character reset.

Taysa · February 2018

Runefang wrote: »

How do you determine who is 'exploiting'?
Did this issue exist on the PTS?

It did not when I was testing.

Jacozilla · February 2018

DjinnRa wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

DjinnRa wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

This isn't an exploit. This is your screw up. And nobody's account should be in danger of having a bad mark on it or banned because of it.

Let me guess, when you saw the insane XP gain you just kept going.

Didn't bother leaving Riften but you keep on with the assumptions

Then why do you care? Not buying it.

By your logic, then only people who have been homeless should care about the homeless. I've never been, but care. So am I lying about never being homeless?

You are tying being part of an activity as criteria for being able to care (or not care) about that activity to make an opinionated comment.

You protest against X, therefore you must clearly be guilty of engaging in X.

The_Brosteen · February 2018

Perma ban everyone involved. This is on the same level of the VAS exploit.

The new standard was set then, "it was something obviously not intended, you should've known better". @ZOS_GinaBruno

Unfadingsilence · February 2018

Taysa wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395122/pc-mac-na-eu-downtime-2-12-18-3-20pm-est#latest

Dear ZoS,

It's time for you to hire an actual QA department to test these things and stop relying on your broken system of crowd sourcing beta testers from the player base. It's not working.

You screwed up the most basic and fundamental part of the game, which is gaining EXP. And because of YOUR screw up, now you're threatening players who did nothing but gain EXP on the new characters you effectively forced them to make due to your short-sighted decision to not make your new level up system retroactive?

This isn't an exploit. This is your screw up. And nobody's account should be in danger of having a bad mark on it or banned because of it.

It's a bug.. until you choose to exploit a bug for personal gain plain and simple

ol_BANK_lo · February 2018

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395122/pc-mac-na-eu-downtime-2-12-18-3-20pm-est#latest

Dear ZoS,

It's time for you to hire an actual QA department to test these things and stop relying on your broken system of crowd sourcing beta testers from the player base. It's not working.

You screwed up the most basic and fundamental part of the game, which is gaining EXP. And because of YOUR screw up, now you're threatening players who did nothing but gain EXP on the new characters you effectively forced them to make due to your short-sighted decision to not make your new level up system retroactive?

This isn't an exploit. This is your screw up. And nobody's account should be in danger of having a bad mark on it or banned because of it.

The majority of people that go to the PTS are there to find new exploitable mechanics. They never report it and hide it close to their vest, so that some of the exploits will be semi-secret for months. What on Tamriel would those people do if ZoS had a robust Q&A department???

Don't use words like "majority of people" since you literally have no idea what percentage of people look for exploits, or what reason people are on the PTS. Don't make stats up to make your point.

Unfadingsilence · February 2018

Merenwen_812 wrote: »

There was an issue? How do we know if we exploited without knowing what the issue was O.o

Just a few kills in IC was giving millions of exp you would know 100% that if you had a low lvl toon and you hut max after a few kills or went from 10 CP to 720 CP in a matter of hours

zaria · February 2018

Runefang wrote: »

How do you determine who is 'exploiting'?

I mean if you have CP levels over 720 you probably don't even look at your XP to know what you're getting.

Also forget 'QA', it could easily have been a deployment issue. Did this issue exist on the PTS?

Above cp720, the only sort of exploit you did was farming the xp farmers for tel var.
Unless you take an 2 month break from the game you will be above cp750 within 3 months.

And don't think this was an deployment issue, an deployment issue would be stuff missing or content not accessible. Say you could not enter CWC. If MOL was down it might be an bug, not sure if some did MOL on PTS as it was kind of outside scope, some might do anyway to test gear or just see how the changes affected trials.

GamerAeryn · February 2018

Personally I think the QA department is a myth. We're live testers, and if they don't respond to help requests the instant they're submitted, can't exactly get mad if people continue to play.

krachall · February 2018

Funny stuff.

A textbook example of exploiting, almost exactly as the TOS is written, and people want to blame ZOS. Weak. You deserve any ban you get.

Skua · February 2018

I stay well away from exploits like this but I can understand the temptation. My Dad always told me to keep my doors locked at my house because locks keep out the honest people. People who wouldn't normally do something bad sometimes make bad choices when the temptation is in front of them like that.

The punishment should definitely be different for someone who came across this while farming than someone who specifically seeks out exploits so handling it individually seems fair. I do think they should get a slap on the wrist so more people aren't tempted to take advantage of things like this in the future, but I wouldn't personally think badly of them for making a mistake.

JamuThatsWho · February 2018

I'm curious to know how many levels people were gaining per kill.

Taysa · February 2018

The_Brosteen wrote: »

Perma ban everyone involved. This is on the same level of the VAS exploit.

The new standard was set then, "it was something obviously not intended, you should've known better". @ZOS_GinaBruno

No, it's not. The VAS exploit only affected a small minority of people and wasn't made public until WEEKS after CWC dropped.

This affects literally everyone.

By your "logic," a brand new player or returning player deserves a perma ban for getting discovery EXP or killing a scamp in IC.

I only hope that one day you encounter an "exploit" simply from playing the game on accident and due to ZoS's failure to QA stuff correctly or code anything correctly, you are slapped with a perma ban.

I can only imagine how quickly your tune would change

NyassaV · February 2018

A very radical point of view... But hey I'm annoying so I agree

Unfadingsilence · February 2018

Lord wrote: »

It depends on the severity of the exploit.
If the player killed maybe 1 or 2 monsters and then found out the experience gain is huge and backed away and reported it, maybe they can ignore this and not ban him.
But if the player continued to kill many monsters after realizing it is an exploit, he should be banned.

One kill in IC Was giving 1.9 million exp

Jadokis · February 2018

The bank left this money out on accident. I guess it belongs to me now because the bank messed up, I did nothing wrong in taking it.

The mentality of lots of people in this thread. ^

It's a basic concept and just because it's in an online game that doesn't change.

KingMagaw · February 2018

BANK_IT_HERE wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Taysa wrote: »

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/395122/pc-mac-na-eu-downtime-2-12-18-3-20pm-est#latest

Dear ZoS,

It's time for you to hire an actual QA department to test these things and stop relying on your broken system of crowd sourcing beta testers from the player base. It's not working.

You screwed up the most basic and fundamental part of the game, which is gaining EXP. And because of YOUR screw up, now you're threatening players who did nothing but gain EXP on the new characters you effectively forced them to make due to your short-sighted decision to not make your new level up system retroactive?

This isn't an exploit. This is your screw up. And nobody's account should be in danger of having a bad mark on it or banned because of it.

The majority of people that go to the PTS are there to find new exploitable mechanics. They never report it and hide it close to their vest, so that some of the exploits will be semi-secret for months. What on Tamriel would those people do if ZoS had a robust Q&A department???

Don't use words like "majority of people" since you literally have no idea what percentage of people look for exploits, or what reason people are on the PTS. Don't make stats up to make your point.

Wreuntzylla mirrors my thinking on this issue. Many peoples sole purpose is to find exploits and use/sell them. I said before there is ZERO incentive for any paying player to pass on information that can be profited on to ZOS.

This has been pointed out many times. Last time garnered a reply for GINA but it had zero subsistence.

You would be literally paying ZOS to work for them in your free game/hobby time. I am not sure about you clearly, but in my whole circle of friends for the past ~3 years in ESO, no one does this.

Taysa · February 2018

Jadokis wrote: »

The bank left this money out on accident. I guess it belongs to me now because the bank messed up, I did nothing wrong in taking it.

The mentality of lots of people in this thread. ^

It's a basic concept and just because it's in an online game that doesn't change.

"Hey let me try to grasp at straws and try to make a relevant argument that isn't relevant at all because I fail to understand basic logic!"

^ Your mentality

xaraan · February 2018

I mean, in the end, they should really just remove the earned XP from those players and move on. Maybe a temp ban if they feel angry about it, but it was caught early and I'd think they can look at see who was in the area and who earned a bunch and just take it away.

Sigtric · February 2018

Jacozilla wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

Here come all the people with their excuses, claiming how they didn't notice because of bla bla bla.

To you the OP and the 14 ppl I saw Agree to this comment, let me ask a logical question -

Why should a player be punished for 'not noticing' xp gains when ZOS QA didn't either?

Now let me be clear - I'm positive there has to be -SOME- players that noticed, made the connection in brain this is clearly not intended or probably not intended, and either stopped or kept going. But point is they noticed, made the connection, and made a decision.

But what you seem to not be able to comprehend is the possibility that -SOME- players had the same or less observation that a paid staff of professionals who are presumably trained, expected, and is their job to spot things like this.

I agree re: punishing offenders of exploits. But you can't separate players in the same net in this case because of the magnitude of ZOS screwup.

The amount of XP awarded PER KILL was enough to get multiple levels on a single kill. At around current CP cap it was enough to award you roughly one CP per kill.

Some reported going from CP160 to 720 in a matter of minutes.

If you are too oblivious to notice this you have much bigger problems than the incoming bans.

As for QA, this was not happening on the test server, so when would they have noticed it?

The definition of exploiting is taking advantage of a bug to gain something. This is an exploit. End. of. Story.

Heike · February 2018

Bottom line: People know when they’re exploiting.

And if you KNOW it’s wrong, but do it anyway, then that’s on you, not ZOS.

And whereas you should be embarrassed, you’re not. You just whine because now, you’re caught.

Own it. Apologize when they come knocking. Then, don’t exploit again.

Period.

Tasear · February 2018

Runefang wrote: »

How do you determine who is 'exploiting'?

I mean if you have CP levels over 720 you probably don't even look at your XP to know what you're getting.

Also forget 'QA', it could easily have been a deployment issue. Did this issue exist on the PTS?

Nobody probably went to pts imperial city, but xp gain not working right us a clear QA issue. That honestly can't fairly be banned for. Roll back is in order.

SynodicOracle · February 2018

The only thing is it's hard for ZO$ to distinguish who did it intenionally and who didn't. I guarantee nobody would admit it, the "muh i was honest" statement is just going to be used again and again.

It sucks because there definitely should be punishment for the exploiters, but it's unlikely there will be, and all the non exploiters will be mad that they either kept/got away with their exploits.

@ZOS I am interested to know how they plan on responding to this