Joy_Division wrote: »

It's amazing the so many thousands and thousands of people who quit in frustration because of performance issues have lousy connections or need to reset their routers.

I actually do wonder how many people have quit the game, thinking that the problem was with the servers, when it wasn't that at all. When people come to the forum, they see lag discussed, and without even a thought, just jump in the wagon and say "me too!". Just because someone has lag does not mean that it has to be caused by the server.

Again, not saying that there is no server lag. I just have seen this sort of thing enough to know that jumping on the bandwagon of "ZOS fault" straight away might not be the right first approach.

I, for one, am pleased to hear that Pokemon Go has died. Good riddance, given that it was paradigmatic attention-wasting and privacy-intruding app.

I play at 330-430 ms, with lag spikes of 999+ ms. It's the inevitable from the moment they announced that it would run on two megaservers - irrespective of the infrastructure support, the spatial distance will mean that the majority of players will play with noticeable ping because they are not in the geographical area. It's manageable if you stay away from Cyrodiil - it was actually better at launch, until around update 1.5. Then it decayed until the Present.

I could still run vMA on 330-430 ms and get on the weekly board, it takes practice and patience, but it isn't game-breaking as some might make it out to be. Perhaps outside of PvP, the lag has the most profound impact on trials, about navigating the mechanics with delay and dealing with frame rate drops at the same time. The latency also impacts on the effective DPS, it means that weapon attack weaving is slower, one may miss a couple of weapon attacks (especially with inferno staff since the change to animation priority - ZOS Please fix! - it is very noticeable at higher latency), not firing off skills at the right time, block cancelling one's own skills before they fire, and many more. Yes, it is still possible to do higher DPS, but it isn't necessarily down to player skills anymore, it is about getting the best connection, often which, are out of the players' control beyond getting Cat6 LAN, a certain ISP or moving closer to the node.


I agree that it could kill the game, if not enough is done to address it. Even in the case of players' own connection issues, the help pages are not informative enough to compel players to check for these (if they are not already aware of it or don't know how to check and rectify). The current troubleshooting and enquiry system for Error messages, timeouts and lag are inadequate and inaccessible for the most part. If ZOS can improve their help system either through better network diagnostics, perhaps through a guide to interpret reports, or something to help the layperson, it would go a very long way to address some of the frustration and disillusionment exhibited by those players.

ESO has been Live for almost 4 years, its community had evolved and progressed to the current stage where it's about min-maxing setups and optimising DPS and scores in the endgame. Lag will inevitably play an increasingly dominant role in handicapping players who are striving to reach those thresholds. You end up with the dichotomy of players who have the stable connection with low latency (<200 ms) and those without. Frankly, I will not be surprised if players of the latter category move on to something else, it makes sense for them to do so; but it won't be a mass exodus, the trickle out of players will be balanced against newcomers (who will then go through the process that depends on their connection quality and so on).

With this said, before anyone points any fingers towards anything, it is important to note that it is the result of the limitation of the megaserver approach, and not necessarily because of the endgame content design or the community (for the most part). As I (and many others) have suggested in the beta, the megaserver approach is neat, but isn't really the way forward, lag was already singled-out as a problem back then. Furthermore, with the increasingly globalised World, game developers have responsibilities to consider the accessibility and quality of content delivered to areas outside of their immediate vicinity, much like other businesses that are exposed to- and operate in- the global market.

Alaztor91 wrote: »

Ever since ZoS started using Akamai(I think it's a DDoS protection thingie or something like that) my avg latency to the server increased by like 40 ms. However the only times that I lag are when there are alot of players on screen like in a zerg fight on cyrodill(vivec) or maybe a really crowded dolmen(talking about latency, FPS stay roughly the same).

Other games that I play which have their US server located in Texas give me between 40-70 less ms than ESO(assuming the ESO US server is in Texas), and I play from outside the US so I'm wondering if maybe the Akamai service that ZoS is using has anything to do with it.

Valve uses Akamai servers for Steam and yes, there are sometimes problems but it's nothing compared with ESO problems, so I don't think it's Akamai who is the problem.
And I talk about Europe.

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

temjiu wrote: »

The issue with problems like this is there are often far more variables then most people admit. Lag tends to be an issue across the entire connection, including the servers at the remote end.

If the servers aren't set up optimally, then you will have people who have issues with lag when their connection isn't optimal.

If people don't optimize their connections, then the choices Zen makes on what they do with their servers has a drastic impact on those players.

I'm certainly not going to criticize those frustrated with connectivity issues. One of the reasons my Playtime with WoW is spotty is due to constant disconnects. WoW says it's on my end. But being in the field myself, I know that part of it is the choices they make as to how they set up their servers, what security layers they use, how they choose to route their connections, etc.

Combine that with as many varieties of user device configurations then there are people in the world, and it gets tough to satisfy them all when it comes to lag. So I see it as a twofold solution:

1) players need to understand their role in network connectivity, and do what they can to optimize their setup. you can have 10 games that work for you, and one that doesn't, and there are still things you can do locally to improve that connection. It doesn't mean that it isn't the fault of the server...it just means that you are making a proactive choice to do what you can on your end.

2) Companies need to understand more intimately how their choices in regards to server setup, client connections, database management, and security protocols impact user access, and make well informed choices when it comes to committing to those endeavors. DDoS protection, as an example, is notorious for killing struggling connections. Yet companies slap it on their networks right and left. I don't blame them. DDoS attacks bring down server farms really fast. I dislike many of the DDoS protection approaches, but when push comes to shove, I'd rather have a spotty connection to play on, then no connection at all because the servers are dead.

That being said, I don't have lag issues here. But I do in other games, So I can empathize. HOWEVER, I'm not sure it's going to "kill" the game like many are threatening. I've been here since early release, and many things have been threatened by the player community to bring doom and gloom. The only thing That I have seen bring the game close to ruin was the whole VR debacle they hade on release. But they changed that rather quickly. The lag has been here since the game started, and it was much worse early on. Yes, it is much better then it used to be. Is it where it should be ? no. But I personally don't feel that It will kill the game.

They do still need to look at their structure though. Just as a player can find ways to improve their connection, so can Zenimin.

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, at this point its just plain ridiculous. The lag is so bad that i wouldn't even recommend logging in during prime time. I lag in PvE, I lag in PvP, I lag in SOLO INSTANCES.
Lot's of past games have risen and fallen due to the developers ignoring this basic component of an online game.

I recently watched a video on why Pokemon GO died, and all it did was give me bad gut feeling about where ESO is going.

In the video the key reasons were as follows:
1. Lag and server issues, not getting addressed or fixed and no official comments that fixes are coming or false promises.
2. Prioritization of New content over fixing currently broken content.

This sounds eerily like modern day ESO. Watching the game I love so much get mistreaed this way is very frustrating and does not refelct well for my favorite games future.
So please Zenimax, take this warning! ESO NEEDS TO RUN SMOOTHLY FIRST! LISTEN TO YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS! Even a recent poll on the forums showed that 90% of voters would rather have lag/bug fixes instead of new BROKEN content.

Here's a link to the video, I recommend the watch as its really well made and nails allot of key points Zenimax should be listening to.

https://youtu.be/4odH8jDk-sg

Lag? There is no lag, no crashing, no load screens don't worry according to ZOS everything is working as intended

Problem is that is true for many (the ONLY time I see any lag is on Sunday nights and it's mild compared to what the poor PvPers are dealing with). It's gotta be driving them nuts trying to sort out the cause. Some of it will be connectivity on the players' parts, some of it HAS to be on the servers due to the consistency in PvP. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Well, considering i could go knock on their datacenters door in less than 30 minutes, i have to say, i doubt it is on my end. Considering no other game has this issue for me.

If you're referring to PvP, then I think that's something else. Otherwise, I don't know what to say because there are so many folk who do not have this lag (outside of PvP). It's a mystery to me and it's a real shame it's happening to folks. Are you PC? PS4? Xbox?

PC EU. I litrally could go knock on their doors right now. And with a gig connection it annoys me right well , especially when i can go to ANY other game, any, and not have this issue.

We must be neighbours. It's odd...how we are having such different experiences.

If you live in south western germany its very possible. =P

I do, indeed. In the hills above the Bodensee.

So far this week 5/5 days unplayable in pvp due to lag.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, at this point its just plain ridiculous. The lag is so bad that i wouldn't even recommend logging in during prime time. I lag in PvE, I lag in PvP, I lag in SOLO INSTANCES.
Lot's of past games have risen and fallen due to the developers ignoring this basic component of an online game.

I recently watched a video on why Pokemon GO died, and all it did was give me bad gut feeling about where ESO is going.

In the video the key reasons were as follows:
1. Lag and server issues, not getting addressed or fixed and no official comments that fixes are coming or false promises.
2. Prioritization of New content over fixing currently broken content.

This sounds eerily like modern day ESO. Watching the game I love so much get mistreaed this way is very frustrating and does not refelct well for my favorite games future.
So please Zenimax, take this warning! ESO NEEDS TO RUN SMOOTHLY FIRST! LISTEN TO YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS! Even a recent poll on the forums showed that 90% of voters would rather have lag/bug fixes instead of new BROKEN content.

Here's a link to the video, I recommend the watch as its really well made and nails allot of key points Zenimax should be listening to.

https://youtu.be/4odH8jDk-sg

Lag? There is no lag, no crashing, no load screens don't worry according to ZOS everything is working as intended

Problem is that is true for many (the ONLY time I see any lag is on Sunday nights and it's mild compared to what the poor PvPers are dealing with). It's gotta be driving them nuts trying to sort out the cause. Some of it will be connectivity on the players' parts, some of it HAS to be on the servers due to the consistency in PvP. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Well, considering i could go knock on their datacenters door in less than 30 minutes, i have to say, i doubt it is on my end. Considering no other game has this issue for me.

Curious for my own lag investigation, how do you know where their data center is? Where is it?

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, at this point its just plain ridiculous. The lag is so bad that i wouldn't even recommend logging in during prime time. I lag in PvE, I lag in PvP, I lag in SOLO INSTANCES.
Lot's of past games have risen and fallen due to the developers ignoring this basic component of an online game.

I recently watched a video on why Pokemon GO died, and all it did was give me bad gut feeling about where ESO is going.

In the video the key reasons were as follows:
1. Lag and server issues, not getting addressed or fixed and no official comments that fixes are coming or false promises.
2. Prioritization of New content over fixing currently broken content.

This sounds eerily like modern day ESO. Watching the game I love so much get mistreaed this way is very frustrating and does not refelct well for my favorite games future.
So please Zenimax, take this warning! ESO NEEDS TO RUN SMOOTHLY FIRST! LISTEN TO YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS! Even a recent poll on the forums showed that 90% of voters would rather have lag/bug fixes instead of new BROKEN content.

Here's a link to the video, I recommend the watch as its really well made and nails allot of key points Zenimax should be listening to.

https://youtu.be/4odH8jDk-sg

Lag? There is no lag, no crashing, no load screens don't worry according to ZOS everything is working as intended

Problem is that is true for many (the ONLY time I see any lag is on Sunday nights and it's mild compared to what the poor PvPers are dealing with). It's gotta be driving them nuts trying to sort out the cause. Some of it will be connectivity on the players' parts, some of it HAS to be on the servers due to the consistency in PvP. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Well, considering i could go knock on their datacenters door in less than 30 minutes, i have to say, i doubt it is on my end. Considering no other game has this issue for me.

If you're referring to PvP, then I think that's something else. Otherwise, I don't know what to say because there are so many folk who do not have this lag (outside of PvP). It's a mystery to me and it's a real shame it's happening to folks. Are you PC? PS4? Xbox?

You're entire argument revolves around the idea that ZoS is not responsible for performance problems outside their servers, which is just false. ZoS is not selling us a server, they are selling us a package that is a client and access to their server, that requires a connection over the WAN. ZoS is responsible for the game experience. What if their crappy coding is sending 5x the data needed? What if they aren't compressing data, or their client-server communication is not fault tolerant enough so a few lost packets cause a much larger impact of lag than they would in some other game?

Furthermore, ZoS itself should be responsible for bad paths to it's data centers. Or, can they decide to put them on the moon and the lag is our fault because satellites have terrible latency? Afaik companies like Netflix are even paying to ensure certain connection qualities, or at least they will be as net neutrality is gone (rip).

No. I have no "argument". Nor am I claiming that the problem does not exist. Please, no stuffing words in my mouth.

The issue is that there are so many possible single and combined reasons that could account for the problems, it's difficult to narrow it down. If it were purely ZMax then everyone would have the problems. How would I get "the good code" that allows me to play without issues and those poor folk who are having such problems in PvP (which seems to really get the brunt of this) fare so poorly?

I think there is some problem that is down to Zmax that is exposed in situations like PvP. I also think if it is even known what that problem/those problems is/are that the fix apparently isn't a simple one or else it would have been attended to.

I had to laugh when you held Netflix up as an example of good connectivity as we cannot use it. Well, we couldn't, to be honest haven't tried in a year or so.

I'd love to see if there is anything to do with what platform people are using. Is it consistently problematic over PC, PS4, Mac, Xbox? Are any more likely to suffer this than others? What OS? What location?

Anyway, for the sake of those who are gnashing their teeth, I do hope there is a resolution and soon. I fear my patience would have been worn out long ago were I in their shoes.

Following your logic, how come I have no issues what so ever with every other game but ESO? Does the game come with a special HW setup, tech support condition that I haven't read anywhere? I mean every aspect of services and not just games over Internet are working as intended, or at least as advertised, except ESO.

Maybe ZOS should specify what hardware and routing paths are mandatory for the minimum deliverance of service paid for.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, at this point its just plain ridiculous. The lag is so bad that i wouldn't even recommend logging in during prime time. I lag in PvE, I lag in PvP, I lag in SOLO INSTANCES.
Lot's of past games have risen and fallen due to the developers ignoring this basic component of an online game.

I recently watched a video on why Pokemon GO died, and all it did was give me bad gut feeling about where ESO is going.

In the video the key reasons were as follows:
1. Lag and server issues, not getting addressed or fixed and no official comments that fixes are coming or false promises.
2. Prioritization of New content over fixing currently broken content.

This sounds eerily like modern day ESO. Watching the game I love so much get mistreaed this way is very frustrating and does not refelct well for my favorite games future.
So please Zenimax, take this warning! ESO NEEDS TO RUN SMOOTHLY FIRST! LISTEN TO YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS! Even a recent poll on the forums showed that 90% of voters would rather have lag/bug fixes instead of new BROKEN content.

Here's a link to the video, I recommend the watch as its really well made and nails allot of key points Zenimax should be listening to.

https://youtu.be/4odH8jDk-sg

Lag? There is no lag, no crashing, no load screens don't worry according to ZOS everything is working as intended

Problem is that is true for many (the ONLY time I see any lag is on Sunday nights and it's mild compared to what the poor PvPers are dealing with). It's gotta be driving them nuts trying to sort out the cause. Some of it will be connectivity on the players' parts, some of it HAS to be on the servers due to the consistency in PvP. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Well, considering i could go knock on their datacenters door in less than 30 minutes, i have to say, i doubt it is on my end. Considering no other game has this issue for me.

Curious for my own lag investigation, how do you know where their data center is? Where is it?

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, at this point its just plain ridiculous. The lag is so bad that i wouldn't even recommend logging in during prime time. I lag in PvE, I lag in PvP, I lag in SOLO INSTANCES.
Lot's of past games have risen and fallen due to the developers ignoring this basic component of an online game.

I recently watched a video on why Pokemon GO died, and all it did was give me bad gut feeling about where ESO is going.

In the video the key reasons were as follows:
1. Lag and server issues, not getting addressed or fixed and no official comments that fixes are coming or false promises.
2. Prioritization of New content over fixing currently broken content.

This sounds eerily like modern day ESO. Watching the game I love so much get mistreaed this way is very frustrating and does not refelct well for my favorite games future.
So please Zenimax, take this warning! ESO NEEDS TO RUN SMOOTHLY FIRST! LISTEN TO YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS! Even a recent poll on the forums showed that 90% of voters would rather have lag/bug fixes instead of new BROKEN content.

Here's a link to the video, I recommend the watch as its really well made and nails allot of key points Zenimax should be listening to.

https://youtu.be/4odH8jDk-sg

Lag? There is no lag, no crashing, no load screens don't worry according to ZOS everything is working as intended

Problem is that is true for many (the ONLY time I see any lag is on Sunday nights and it's mild compared to what the poor PvPers are dealing with). It's gotta be driving them nuts trying to sort out the cause. Some of it will be connectivity on the players' parts, some of it HAS to be on the servers due to the consistency in PvP. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Well, considering i could go knock on their datacenters door in less than 30 minutes, i have to say, i doubt it is on my end. Considering no other game has this issue for me.

If you're referring to PvP, then I think that's something else. Otherwise, I don't know what to say because there are so many folk who do not have this lag (outside of PvP). It's a mystery to me and it's a real shame it's happening to folks. Are you PC? PS4? Xbox?

You're entire argument revolves around the idea that ZoS is not responsible for performance problems outside their servers, which is just false. ZoS is not selling us a server, they are selling us a package that is a client and access to their server, that requires a connection over the WAN. ZoS is responsible for the game experience. What if their crappy coding is sending 5x the data needed? What if they aren't compressing data, or their client-server communication is not fault tolerant enough so a few lost packets cause a much larger impact of lag than they would in some other game?

Furthermore, ZoS itself should be responsible for bad paths to it's data centers. Or, can they decide to put them on the moon and the lag is our fault because satellites have terrible latency? Afaik companies like Netflix are even paying to ensure certain connection qualities, or at least they will be as net neutrality is gone (rip).

No. I have no "argument". Nor am I claiming that the problem does not exist. Please, no stuffing words in my mouth.

The issue is that there are so many possible single and combined reasons that could account for the problems, it's difficult to narrow it down. If it were purely ZMax then everyone would have the problems. How would I get "the good code" that allows me to play without issues and those poor folk who are having such problems in PvP (which seems to really get the brunt of this) fare so poorly?

I think there is some problem that is down to Zmax that is exposed in situations like PvP. I also think if it is even known what that problem/those problems is/are that the fix apparently isn't a simple one or else it would have been attended to.

I had to laugh when you held Netflix up as an example of good connectivity as we cannot use it. Well, we couldn't, to be honest haven't tried in a year or so.

I'd love to see if there is anything to do with what platform people are using. Is it consistently problematic over PC, PS4, Mac, Xbox? Are any more likely to suffer this than others? What OS? What location?

Anyway, for the sake of those who are gnashing their teeth, I do hope there is a resolution and soon. I fear my patience would have been worn out long ago were I in their shoes.

Following your logic, how come I have no issues what so ever with every other game but ESO? Does the game come with a special HW setup, tech support condition that I haven't read anywhere? I mean every aspect of services and not just games over Internet are working as intended, or at least as advertised, except ESO.

Maybe ZOS should specify what hardware and routing paths are mandatory for the minimum deliverance of service paid for.

Different route? Different infrastructure code? The routing path to their servers is not something they have control over. ESO is great for me. SWTOR was abysmal, WoW iffy, DAoC (back in the day) horrific (but that was down to Sprint), UO was always pretty good, EQ, off and on.

These things are usually often a combination of issues; route, the way the net code is written for the game (higher tolerance in some, for example ESO boots me if there is the tiniest bit of a drop whereas SWTOR would hold out). Some folks also confuse GPU lage for net lag (don't know if that applies here).

Applies where? You have no idea what you're talking about since you have no idea what my problem with ESO performance is nor my rig and network setup. Confusing things is not something applicable to my post.

People that are scoffing at other players performance issues with the game is just ridiculous, and kind of hints at self absorption.

A game and it's services should simply be a turn key service, plug and play if you like, and not having an undisclosed condition of tweaking with Registry Editor values or using third party software for tweaking settings like i.e. MTU, TCP Chimney Offload, TCPNodelay, ctcp and such, just too squeeze some better pings or slightly lower lag out of the game.

As a paying customer for a product and associated services, I expect the product to work pretty much like any other service I pay for that utilizes the Internet for it's delivery.

Also, the PvP performance early after PC release was in no way as bad as it currently is, so people have had acceptable to great performance in game before, however suddenly numerous users are collectively experiencing the same issues, and the blame is on the user end and it's ISPs? Come on now.

Idinuse wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Idinuse wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, at this point its just plain ridiculous. The lag is so bad that i wouldn't even recommend logging in during prime time. I lag in PvE, I lag in PvP, I lag in SOLO INSTANCES.
Lot's of past games have risen and fallen due to the developers ignoring this basic component of an online game.

I recently watched a video on why Pokemon GO died, and all it did was give me bad gut feeling about where ESO is going.

In the video the key reasons were as follows:
1. Lag and server issues, not getting addressed or fixed and no official comments that fixes are coming or false promises.
2. Prioritization of New content over fixing currently broken content.

This sounds eerily like modern day ESO. Watching the game I love so much get mistreaed this way is very frustrating and does not refelct well for my favorite games future.
So please Zenimax, take this warning! ESO NEEDS TO RUN SMOOTHLY FIRST! LISTEN TO YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS! Even a recent poll on the forums showed that 90% of voters would rather have lag/bug fixes instead of new BROKEN content.

Here's a link to the video, I recommend the watch as its really well made and nails allot of key points Zenimax should be listening to.

https://youtu.be/4odH8jDk-sg

Lag? There is no lag, no crashing, no load screens don't worry according to ZOS everything is working as intended

Problem is that is true for many (the ONLY time I see any lag is on Sunday nights and it's mild compared to what the poor PvPers are dealing with). It's gotta be driving them nuts trying to sort out the cause. Some of it will be connectivity on the players' parts, some of it HAS to be on the servers due to the consistency in PvP. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Well, considering i could go knock on their datacenters door in less than 30 minutes, i have to say, i doubt it is on my end. Considering no other game has this issue for me.

Curious for my own lag investigation, how do you know where their data center is? Where is it?

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

chris211 wrote: »

JackDaniell wrote: »

So, at this point its just plain ridiculous. The lag is so bad that i wouldn't even recommend logging in during prime time. I lag in PvE, I lag in PvP, I lag in SOLO INSTANCES.
Lot's of past games have risen and fallen due to the developers ignoring this basic component of an online game.

I recently watched a video on why Pokemon GO died, and all it did was give me bad gut feeling about where ESO is going.

In the video the key reasons were as follows:
1. Lag and server issues, not getting addressed or fixed and no official comments that fixes are coming or false promises.
2. Prioritization of New content over fixing currently broken content.

This sounds eerily like modern day ESO. Watching the game I love so much get mistreaed this way is very frustrating and does not refelct well for my favorite games future.
So please Zenimax, take this warning! ESO NEEDS TO RUN SMOOTHLY FIRST! LISTEN TO YOUR PAYING CUSTOMERS! Even a recent poll on the forums showed that 90% of voters would rather have lag/bug fixes instead of new BROKEN content.

Here's a link to the video, I recommend the watch as its really well made and nails allot of key points Zenimax should be listening to.

https://youtu.be/4odH8jDk-sg

Lag? There is no lag, no crashing, no load screens don't worry according to ZOS everything is working as intended

Problem is that is true for many (the ONLY time I see any lag is on Sunday nights and it's mild compared to what the poor PvPers are dealing with). It's gotta be driving them nuts trying to sort out the cause. Some of it will be connectivity on the players' parts, some of it HAS to be on the servers due to the consistency in PvP. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.

Well, considering i could go knock on their datacenters door in less than 30 minutes, i have to say, i doubt it is on my end. Considering no other game has this issue for me.

If you're referring to PvP, then I think that's something else. Otherwise, I don't know what to say because there are so many folk who do not have this lag (outside of PvP). It's a mystery to me and it's a real shame it's happening to folks. Are you PC? PS4? Xbox?

You're entire argument revolves around the idea that ZoS is not responsible for performance problems outside their servers, which is just false. ZoS is not selling us a server, they are selling us a package that is a client and access to their server, that requires a connection over the WAN. ZoS is responsible for the game experience. What if their crappy coding is sending 5x the data needed? What if they aren't compressing data, or their client-server communication is not fault tolerant enough so a few lost packets cause a much larger impact of lag than they would in some other game?

Furthermore, ZoS itself should be responsible for bad paths to it's data centers. Or, can they decide to put them on the moon and the lag is our fault because satellites have terrible latency? Afaik companies like Netflix are even paying to ensure certain connection qualities, or at least they will be as net neutrality is gone (rip).

No. I have no "argument". Nor am I claiming that the problem does not exist. Please, no stuffing words in my mouth.

The issue is that there are so many possible single and combined reasons that could account for the problems, it's difficult to narrow it down. If it were purely ZMax then everyone would have the problems. How would I get "the good code" that allows me to play without issues and those poor folk who are having such problems in PvP (which seems to really get the brunt of this) fare so poorly?

I think there is some problem that is down to Zmax that is exposed in situations like PvP. I also think if it is even known what that problem/those problems is/are that the fix apparently isn't a simple one or else it would have been attended to.

I had to laugh when you held Netflix up as an example of good connectivity as we cannot use it. Well, we couldn't, to be honest haven't tried in a year or so.

I'd love to see if there is anything to do with what platform people are using. Is it consistently problematic over PC, PS4, Mac, Xbox? Are any more likely to suffer this than others? What OS? What location?

Anyway, for the sake of those who are gnashing their teeth, I do hope there is a resolution and soon. I fear my patience would have been worn out long ago were I in their shoes.

Following your logic, how come I have no issues what so ever with every other game but ESO? Does the game come with a special HW setup, tech support condition that I haven't read anywhere? I mean every aspect of services and not just games over Internet are working as intended, or at least as advertised, except ESO.

Maybe ZOS should specify what hardware and routing paths are mandatory for the minimum deliverance of service paid for.

Different route? Different infrastructure code? The routing path to their servers is not something they have control over. ESO is great for me. SWTOR was abysmal, WoW iffy, DAoC (back in the day) horrific (but that was down to Sprint), UO was always pretty good, EQ, off and on.

These things are usually often a combination of issues; route, the way the net code is written for the game (higher tolerance in some, for example ESO boots me if there is the tiniest bit of a drop whereas SWTOR would hold out). Some folks also confuse GPU lage for net lag (don't know if that applies here).

Applies where? You have no idea what you're talking about since you have no idea what my problem with ESO performance is nor my rig and network setup. Confusing things is not something applicable to my post.

People that are scoffing at other players performance issues with the game is just ridiculous, and kind of hints at self absorption.

A game and it's services should simply be a turn key service, plug and play if you like, and not having an undisclosed condition of tweaking with Registry Editor values or using third party software for tweaking settings like i.e. MTU, TCP Chimney Offload, TCPNodelay, ctcp and such, just too squeeze some better pings or slightly lower lag out of the game.

As a paying customer for a product and associated services, I expect the product to work pretty much like any other service I pay for that utilizes the Internet for it's delivery.

Also, the PvP performance early after PC release was in no way as bad as it currently is, so people have had acceptable to great performance in game before, however suddenly numerous users are collectively experiencing the same issues, and the blame is on the user end and it's ISPs? Come on now.

The "applies here" was general, not specific to you. In reference to the fact that many are encountering hideous performance and yet many are not.

Whilst there are, unfortunately, some folk that do "scoff", I'm not one of them. Having been in the unenviable position in other games, I'm rather bemused to not be here. Same hardware, much better performance, rarely lagged (I can see the route differences). No reg edit needed, no tweaks, just type in my password and go.

My "blame" is not an individual, nor a specific ISP but the bleedin' Internet. The routes. You can see if there are problems along the route you use a visual product and study the traffic. Is that what's happening here? I don't know, but I do know that it is a fact that some people do not have the craptacular lag that others do. To lay the blame entirely on ZMax is convenient but I'm not convinced it's warranted. I think it's a combination of things, one of which they have control over (and it needs work), the other they do not.

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

To lay the blame entirely on ZMax is convenient but I'm not convinced it's warranted.

Sure it is. They designed it with known parameters about the types of hardware its customers are likely own and the existing infrastructure. They marketed the game. They have fundamentally changed how the game works across networks since release.

Now, this is a novel idea. But there is a small chance that some of these people have already reset their routers.

The what's the explanation for all these folk who do not have any issues at all? Are those that are experiencing issues running really "peculiar" systems? Are the rest of us running "super rigs" or some sort of "template" rig? See, the thing is that I have been in the shoes of the folks that are having so many problems in ESO but in other games. Sometimes it was due to my less-than-bleeding-edge system, sometimes (more often) it was because I live on a hill in the boonchuckies and keeping power on nevermind a great 'net connect can be challenging at times. Sometimes it was due to one hop that was close to us that was basically borked and it took an eternity for them to fix it.

Sorry, I just can't at this point buy that it's all down to Zmax. I don't have a dog in this hunt but I have seen too many folks carrying on without problems to buy it. There is obviously something going on that is affecting entirely too many people and that needs to be addressed.

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

cbaudersub17_ESO wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

To lay the blame entirely on ZMax is convenient but I'm not convinced it's warranted.

Sure it is. They designed it with known parameters about the types of hardware its customers are likely own and the existing infrastructure. They marketed the game. They have fundamentally changed how the game works across networks since release.

Now, this is a novel idea. But there is a small chance that some of these people have already reset their routers.

The what's the explanation for all these folk who do not have any issues at all? Are those that are experiencing issues running really "peculiar" systems? Are the rest of us running "super rigs" or some sort of "template" rig? See, the thing is that I have been in the shoes of the folks that are having so many problems in ESO but in other games. Sometimes it was due to my less-than-bleeding-edge system, sometimes (more often) it was because I live on a hill in the boonchuckies and keeping power on nevermind a great 'net connect can be challenging at times. Sometimes it was due to one hop that was close to us that was basically borked and it took an eternity for them to fix it.

Sorry, I just can't at this point buy that it's all down to Zmax. I don't have a dog in this hunt but I have seen too many folks carrying on without problems to buy it. There is obviously something going on that is affecting entirely too many people and that needs to be addressed.

Clearly they reset their routers.

Who did? Now you've gone and confused me.

Head.hunter wrote: »

From watching my friend play off his Xbox, I see that lag is not really an issue with consoles. Pc and Mac however, there is a huge problem, especially in pvp. In general I have no chance of seeing my incoming death, as all my enemies are invisible. Can you guess why?

Monitor turned off? << Just kidding! Sheesh!