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Don't nerf block cost
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Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....0 -
profundidob16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭OneKhajiitCrimeWave wrote: »The change to block cost won't really affect PvE tanks as you don't permablock on them for the most part. The base cost of blocking actually got reduced which helps PvE tanks once they get used to weaving a light attack or 2 in and not 100% block casting.
Besides, resource management is a skill to be learned and Tanks can be assisted in it by shards if really necessary.
This is mostly true.
And could be completely true if zos re-worked a few dungeons/bosses/fights in the game. There are a few instances here and there (in high end content) where the lack of block cost reduction is super noticeable. Too many one shots in the game, especially for dps that require even trash mobs to be taunted, but after you've taunted a half dozen mobs, having stam to block isn't always there. And if you run out of stam, some of those one shots will even take you down as a tank with max resist, even on non boss fights.
And in some of those fights, you cannot drop block to make a heavy. Pull the three minataurs before the last boss in Falkreath Hold, you've burned 4-5k in stam with the three taunts if you used the good debuff to take away their armor, then block a few shots, and you are out of stam and cannot make a heavy attack b/c they are all doing power attacks at different times. If you don't taunt them all, they will kill the dps pretty easily. If you don't have excellent dps with you, you'll run out of stam real fast - I actually am usually on the wire by the time they are dying. Or vmaw, hold the two hander that breaks your armor and drop block to heavy and get spun or charged by the shield guy the other tank is holding near you and it's a one shot. There are just frankly, several situations that don't allow dropping block at all, and some that make it very very difficult in spots that it shouldn't be. I've been testing a lot of stuff the last few weeks with block cost in vHM dungeons and trials and it doesn't mix well with some existing content.
It will also be much more impactful on the more common player. The high end groups won't notice b/c stuff gets burned down fast, or even whole mechanics get skipped. And unfortunately, much of the PvE feedback they get are from those top end guilds that will tell them something isn't as bad as it is because they only see that side. But there are several instances in the game that could be looked at to give a little more leway for heavy attacks or taking away a need to taunt a trash mob, etc. Problem is, they won't do it.
Frankly, if the change they are making will push tanks to drop jewelry block cost reduction completely in place of some other jewelry enchant, then it's over nerfed. There should be a gray area in there where maybe you do want to give it up for some other benefit, but also where it provides a good benefit and is something you would miss if you gave it up. What they should do if they insist on this nerf in the way it's calculated, is buff the numbers and make it give more for block and bash cost, I'd even add a break free cost reduction to those other two cost reductions.
I also don't think all the blame is on pvp. The problem with pvp tanks is the players that can be super tanky and do good damage, there isn't anything wrong with someone just being a tank and watching their friends die and then getting focused down last, but when you feel like you aren't doing any damage to someone and then they can burst you down, that's where an issue pops up. So I think this block cost is aimed at both pvp and pve, but I don't think it's being done right (especially if they also plan on nerfing heavy armor sets like they already nerfed the damage passive from HA and are nerfing 7th legion - they don't need to take away their ability to be tanky on top of damage, just one or the other and IMO, tanks should be tanky, not dps-y).
about your great example of the 3 minotaurs... with these block cost changes, as a fullblown tank with 45-50k health with full dedicated tank gear and armor resistance capped (instead of any support mix because tanking is too easy) I can in fact easily find several short windows to drop block and get in a heavy attack in between to restore my stamina. Yes it makes tanking harder, riskier and challenging, and it makes the healer valuable because in this situation I need him to heal me when I drop my guard in order to restore stamina and if my health drops too much I will immediately block again until healed. Of course all of this makes the encounter more difficult, with the tank more valued for being a true tank instead of some halfassed hybrid and the healer more valued and necessary for healing. WAIT... how is this a bad thing again ?
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SquareSausage✭✭✭✭✭I think people are getting confused with why they made the change and who it actually effects more.
"Developer Comments - Block Cost Changes:
Spoilerhide
The changes to Block’s costs are meant to reduce the extreme differences between builds that specialize in blocking and ones that do not. We’ve lowered the base cost of Block to ensure that all builds can have an easier time blocking attacks without being completely drained of Stamina. We’ve also changed Block cost jewelry enchantments to work similarly to Magicka or Stamina cost reduction jewelry enchantments. Builds utilizing those enchantments (and other reductions to Block cost) were too effective at keeping block up. Finally, we’ve buffed Ancient Knowledge so that it is comparable to the Fortress passive, which brings the gap between traditional Sword and Shield tanking and Frost Staff tanking closer."
To me, this reads as it was aimed at pvp'ers, as all real PVE tank builds are based around blocking, there wasnt much discrepancy, however PVP builds blocking and non blocking builds is a huge difference.
However, they have missed the mark with how it actually effects players as it has a more adverse effect on PVE players as has been pointed out the builds that people were complaining about (tanky/burst) dont use all block cost glyphs.
Breakfast KingPS4 EU0 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SquareSausage wrote: »I think people are getting confused with why they made the change and who it actually effects more.
"Developer Comments - Block Cost Changes:
Spoilerhide
The changes to Block’s costs are meant to reduce the extreme differences between builds that specialize in blocking and ones that do not. We’ve lowered the base cost of Block to ensure that all builds can have an easier time blocking attacks without being completely drained of Stamina. We’ve also changed Block cost jewelry enchantments to work similarly to Magicka or Stamina cost reduction jewelry enchantments. Builds utilizing those enchantments (and other reductions to Block cost) were too effective at keeping block up. Finally, we’ve buffed Ancient Knowledge so that it is comparable to the Fortress passive, which brings the gap between traditional Sword and Shield tanking and Frost Staff tanking closer."
To me, this reads as it was aimed at pvp'ers, as all real PVE tank builds are based around blocking, there wasnt much discrepancy, however PVP builds blocking and non blocking builds is a huge difference.
However, they have missed the mark with how it actually effects players as it has a more adverse effect on PVE players as has been pointed out the builds that people were complaining about (tanky/burst) dont use all block cost glyphs.
I don't actually think this is the case.
I think new tanks simply didn't know about block cost enchantments and how much difference they make. More than a few times people I run with have come up against the blood forge last boss and realised that the tank didn't have block cost reduction jewellery on and we'd have to fix that to complete the content.
This problem would have been better solved by just changing heavy armour jewellery to default to block cost reduction instead of health recovery, since health recovery is largely useless anyway.4 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 7, 2018 7:28AM0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.1 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 8, 2018 4:12PM0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
It’s hilarious when people who don’t PvP tell others who do that something isn’t an issue in PvP.
Hey, I don’t PvE, but I can assure you block cost changes won’t be in issue in PvE at all.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.1 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
It’s hilarious when people who don’t PvP tell others who do that something isn’t an issue in PvP.
Hey, I don’t PvE, but I can assure you block cost changes won’t be in issue in PvE at all.
I never said it wasn't.
I said the specific instance wasn't nearly as bad as he was making it out to be, and suggested a fairly workable solution for it.
The solution to all of PVP's problems is not to drastically nerf -everyone else-.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.
"Not an issue?"
OH YES, because eating half our stamina pool tanking Rakkat in one move isn't at all relevent to PVE. "I talk to a bunch of endgame tanks, oh boy". Spare me. I really dont care whatever imaginary friends of yours had to say, the problem is the onus on stats and the design they refuse to change being outright counterproducitve to the stated goal of less permablocking. And that's what, and should be, what people are up in arms about it.
Then again, you dont care. PVE players are second class citizens to you. Rights? Opinions? We dont deserve those, oh no.
Also, I love how your telling me I dont have any buisness tanking when you've stated you dont PVE, so why dont you practice what you preach?
Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 8, 2018 5:09PM0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.
"Not an issue?"
OH YES, because eating half our stamina pool tanking Rakkat in one move isn't at all relevent to PVE. "I talk to a bunch of endgame tanks, oh boy". Spare me. I really dont care whatever imaginary friends of yours had to say, the problem is the onus on stats and the design they refuse to change being outright counterproducitve to the stated goal of less permablocking. And that's what, and should be, what people are up in arms about it.
Then again, you dont care. PVE players are second class citizens to you. Rights? Opinions? We dont deserve those, oh no.
Also, I love how your telling me I dont have any buisness tanking when you've stated you dont PVE, so why dont you practice what you preach?
Got my info from players on the leader boards. You cant say the same for pvp though can you? Sounds like a L2P issue honestly lol0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.
"Not an issue?"
OH YES, because eating half our stamina pool tanking Rakkat in one move isn't at all relevent to PVE. "I talk to a bunch of endgame tanks, oh boy". Spare me. I really dont care whatever imaginary friends of yours had to say, the problem is the onus on stats and the design they refuse to change being outright counterproducitve to the stated goal of less permablocking. And that's what, and should be, what people are up in arms about it.
Then again, you dont care. PVE players are second class citizens to you. Rights? Opinions? We dont deserve those, oh no.
Also, I love how your telling me I dont have any buisness tanking when you've stated you dont PVE, so why dont you practice what you preach?
Got my info from players on the leader boards. You cant say the same for pvp though can you? Sounds like a L2P issue honestly lol
Stop lying about me.
I dont run blocktanks, I've told you that ad infinitum. These are observations anyone with a basic understanding of how tanks work in this game can make, and I dont need to have a vested interest to make them. So I can only assume your deliberately attempting to lie about me.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 8, 2018 5:12PM0 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.
"Not an issue?"
OH YES, because eating half our stamina pool tanking Rakkat in one move isn't at all relevent to PVE. "I talk to a bunch of endgame tanks, oh boy". Spare me. I really dont care whatever imaginary friends of yours had to say, the problem is the onus on stats and the design they refuse to change being outright counterproducitve to the stated goal of less permablocking. And that's what, and should be, what people are up in arms about it.
Then again, you dont care. PVE players are second class citizens to you. Rights? Opinions? We dont deserve those, oh no.
Also, I love how your telling me I dont have any buisness tanking when you've stated you dont PVE, so why dont you practice what you preach?
Got my info from players on the leader boards. You cant say the same for pvp though can you? Sounds like a L2P issue honestly lol
Stop lying about me.
I dont run blocktanks, I've told you that ad infinitum. These are observations anyone with a basic understanding of how tanks work in this game can make, and I dont need to have a vested interest to make them. So I can only assume your deliberately attempting to lie about me.
Idk what you're talking about "lying about you". Have you been on the PTS to test the block changes?0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.
"Not an issue?"
OH YES, because eating half our stamina pool tanking Rakkat in one move isn't at all relevent to PVE. "I talk to a bunch of endgame tanks, oh boy". Spare me. I really dont care whatever imaginary friends of yours had to say, the problem is the onus on stats and the design they refuse to change being outright counterproducitve to the stated goal of less permablocking. And that's what, and should be, what people are up in arms about it.
Then again, you dont care. PVE players are second class citizens to you. Rights? Opinions? We dont deserve those, oh no.
Also, I love how your telling me I dont have any buisness tanking when you've stated you dont PVE, so why dont you practice what you preach?
Got my info from players on the leader boards. You cant say the same for pvp though can you? Sounds like a L2P issue honestly lol
Stop lying about me.
I dont run blocktanks, I've told you that ad infinitum. These are observations anyone with a basic understanding of how tanks work in this game can make, and I dont need to have a vested interest to make them. So I can only assume your deliberately attempting to lie about me.
Idk what you're talking about "lying about you". Have you been on the PTS to test the block changes?
Yes.
Was actually a buff for me. (At the very least it didn't effect me, given I didn't have enough reliance on blocking to really matter.) The only people I really see this effecting are tanks in PVE, honestly. Because if the PVP crowd can sustain through stamina potions now, against stamina poisons and everything else, it's not gonna impact them all that much with these changes. And like plenty of people have made very clear to you, half the mitigation they get comes from healing.
Which begs the question, if the only people this really effects were PVE tanks, and we want less blocking from PVE tanks, why do we have so many fights that make it absolutely necessary? And why are those fights not being changed?
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Aaand you keep lying about me by insinuating that I apparently need to 'l2p' with a blocktank, which is the only context in which that sentance makes sense. But I dont run blocktanks. So which is it? Are you lying about me, or are you just talking at a perception rather than a person?
If you have a entire team wailing on a tank and you cannot kill them, surely, it is you who must learn to play, for your DPS must really suck, no?
Edit: Yeah, just hopped back on the PTS. The only people who will be at all effected will be the people taking hits at a rapid enough manner in order for it to manner. (IE: PVE Tanks.) All the PVP ones will likely just switch to major offense and wreck you anyway, so I dont really know what your clamoring about.
Sidenote: Explain to me something. Did you just forget about stamina drain poisons, or bursting the healer down? Even as someone with such a cursory idea of PVP as me, these solutions come to mind. So what are you not telling me, mister learn to play? What tactics have you tried? I am deeply, deeply curious.
If anything, this new shift toward agressive play with interruption on abilities will solve your turtle problem in and of itself, no? Tanks may see a new roll in battlegrounds, which will be interruption.
And after having tested it on the PTS, I can safely say if this continues in this manner you will likely see less tanks, you will likely see less people running fights like AA, Rakkat, until those fights are nerfed, or this change is reversed. So if the intent was to get less people to PVE, mission accomplished. S'not gonna make the game more healthy by a longshot though. Not until the content is edited to suit. And trust me. A healthy endgame community in PVE contributes to the games health. PVP is not all there is, if people dont like PVP (And trust me, that's not a small audience) and have nothing to aspire to or stick around for....they just wont. Eventually you run out of churn.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 8, 2018 9:07PM2 -
Hutch679✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.
"Not an issue?"
OH YES, because eating half our stamina pool tanking Rakkat in one move isn't at all relevent to PVE. "I talk to a bunch of endgame tanks, oh boy". Spare me. I really dont care whatever imaginary friends of yours had to say, the problem is the onus on stats and the design they refuse to change being outright counterproducitve to the stated goal of less permablocking. And that's what, and should be, what people are up in arms about it.
Then again, you dont care. PVE players are second class citizens to you. Rights? Opinions? We dont deserve those, oh no.
Also, I love how your telling me I dont have any buisness tanking when you've stated you dont PVE, so why dont you practice what you preach?
Got my info from players on the leader boards. You cant say the same for pvp though can you? Sounds like a L2P issue honestly lol
Stop lying about me.
I dont run blocktanks, I've told you that ad infinitum. These are observations anyone with a basic understanding of how tanks work in this game can make, and I dont need to have a vested interest to make them. So I can only assume your deliberately attempting to lie about me.
Idk what you're talking about "lying about you". Have you been on the PTS to test the block changes?
Yes.
Was actually a buff for me. (At the very least it didn't effect me, given I didn't have enough reliance on blocking to really matter.) The only people I really see this effecting are tanks in PVE, honestly. Because if the PVP crowd can sustain through stamina potions now, against stamina poisons and everything else, it's not gonna impact them all that much with these changes. And like plenty of people have made very clear to you, half the mitigation they get comes from healing.
Which begs the question, if the only people this really effects were PVE tanks, and we want less blocking from PVE tanks, why do we have so many fights that make it absolutely necessary? And why are those fights not being changed?
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Aaand you keep lying about me by insinuating that I apparently need to 'l2p' with a blocktank, which is the only context in which that sentance makes sense. But I dont run blocktanks. So which is it? Are you lying about me, or are you just talking at a perception rather than a person?
If you have a entire team wailing on a tank and you cannot kill them, surely, it is you who must learn to play, for your DPS must really suck, no?
Edit: Yeah, just hopped back on the PTS. The only people who will be at all effected will be the people taking hits at a rapid enough manner in order for it to manner. (IE: PVE Tanks.) All the PVP ones will likely just switch to major offense and wreck you anyway, so I dont really know what your clamoring about.
Sidenote: Explain to me something. Did you just forget about stamina drain poisons, or bursting the healer down? Even as someone with such a cursory idea of PVP as me, these solutions come to mind. So what are you not telling me, mister learn to play? What tactics have you tried? I am deeply, deeply curious.
If anything, this new shift toward agressive play with interruption on abilities will solve your turtle problem in and of itself, no? Tanks may see a new roll in battlegrounds, which will be interruption.
And after having tested it on the PTS, I can safely say if this continues in this manner you will likely see less tanks, you will likely see less people running fights like AA, Rakkat, until those fights are nerfed, or this change is reversed. So if the intent was to get less people to PVE, mission accomplished. S'not gonna make the game more healthy by a longshot though. Not until the content is edited to suit. And trust me. A healthy endgame community in PVE contributes to the games health. PVP is not all there is, if people dont like PVP (And trust me, that's not a small audience) and have nothing to aspire to or stick around for....they just wont. Eventually you run out of churn.
TL;DR.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »AbysmalGhul wrote: »So what I'm gathering from this thread is that
1. Perma blocking in PVP wasn't that big of an issue because of over healing
2. PVE tanks need L2P
3. PVE players are junkies
So why was the nerf called for? Did Veteran content bosses email ZOS and complain about tanks being too tanky? *shrugs
BTW, 15k dps tanks...*walks away and laughs
I'm really suprised at the 'junkie' bit. As if unhealthy obsession is limited to our side of the game. Que?
Seems to be the pattern, I guess. More evidence PVE and PVP cannot co-exist.
I throw my hands up. This playerbase, is the biggest hurdle to this game geting better. Even moreso than ZOS's sometimes blind eye to our feedback. It's the fact that if they accept feedback from -anyone-, someone will come out of the woodwork to bash them, and the people attempting to give it.Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »*Has a habit of mixing up PVP and PVE out of reflex muscle memory*
So apply that statement to PVE, instead of PVP. Twohander is great in PVP, terrible in PVE, because PVP values burst damage more.
Also, when you make a simple mistake in phrasing I dont go crazy and call people to laugh at -you-, do I? @Hutch679 you've even done it in this thread! this is what I'm talking about. You're not here to discuss a solution, given why you just sat there and looked for something to shame over. So why are you here?
The solution has already been made though dude. They increased block cost.
Have fun crying next patch when the problem does not go away.
Wonder what the next OP tank build will be. Maybe something with livewire or leeching plate.
I'll be fine, I've allready started adapting my build, but you? I'm guessing you wont be given you feel the need to have the game changed rather than adopt a counterstrategy.
Well considering they are fixing block lol I'm pretty okay. Problem solved!
When are you gonna get it's not geting fixed for you?
The cost is actually going to go down for people who dont run full block glyphs and I can guarentee you the people you face in battlegrounds are not using them.
Right. Dude you don't get it lol. The problem is the perma block. Like when they stack nothing but block. There is no issue with block being reduced across the board otherwise. Come on man. This was already mentioned.... L2P issue clearly..
Overperforming damage-mitigation mechanics and heals is the problem. Not "perma-blocking"Remove blockcasting and problem is solved in pvp.
Not really. As I´ve said, dmg-mitigation and overperforming healing is the issue. Most tanky players doesn´t sit like turtles and block-cast abilities anyway
I disagree. Yes some of the calculations are an issue, but the fact that people can infinitely block is DEFINITELY an issue you can't really argue.
A build that can block "infinitely" will never kill anyone, so that´s not an issue (maybe in chaosball mode in BG). The scary builds are those who block only when needed and then turn the fight around and do damage, but those builds aren´t permablocking builds. These builds get their survivability from other sources than blocking. I suggest you read this thread before commenting further:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/279426/damage-mitigation-explanation-updated-for-morrowind-new-calculator/p1
What do you mean it's not an issue? In chaosball they hold the ball super long, in capture the flag they either defend and you can never get their flag, or they grab your flag and you can't get it back, in domination they are at a capture point infinitely. You leave and they take it... in crazy king, same thing. In death match they rebuff everyone and put guard on someone. Idk if you play enough BGs to comment... I'm hitting 3 leaderboards every week playing 30+ games....
There are ways to solve that issue without touching block cost, like instituting a drop timer if the player does not do active damage with abilities in a certain timeframe.
And even then, it's annoying, sure, but not unbalanced. Is he killing you? Then it's nowhere near where your acting like.
And if anyone here is unfit to comment on it, it's the person calling for things to be nerfed after losing drastically alot from the sounds of it.
I can tell you don't pvp or play BGs. He doesn't have to kill people to score points. And there has to be a counter to everything or it becomes unbalanced. There is no counter for someone who can infinitely block and not die. A drop timer? What? That's a TERRIBLE solution. Looks like it's been fixed now that block has been iincreased, a much needed change. Honestly they were spot on with this, except it could have been increased by a little more tbh. GG though. See ya next patch!
No, I dont, because quite frankly I like playing a better balanced, more engaging PVP game.
Have fun not being able to kill them still, see you when you return to the forums to cry for more nerfs.
Its fixed now, thanks. The block increase fixed it. Good thing too!
It really isn't.
You dont pvp, you wouldn't know.
Okay if you want me to go over this crap start another friggin' thread because your strange fixation with me is derailing the thread.
Like I would be happy to explain to you why PVP in a MMO setting is fundementally flawed, but not -here-.
Block cost increase is relevant to pvp because it was not an issue in pve. Idk why you can't understand that. Go read what ZoS said about why they increased it because apparently you skipped that whole announcement. Learn to tank. If you can't pve with the block cost changes you have no business being a tank. I've talked to a bunch of end game tanks and they said they will have no problems what so ever with the changes. You keep messaging me is why I respond.
"Not an issue?"
OH YES, because eating half our stamina pool tanking Rakkat in one move isn't at all relevent to PVE. "I talk to a bunch of endgame tanks, oh boy". Spare me. I really dont care whatever imaginary friends of yours had to say, the problem is the onus on stats and the design they refuse to change being outright counterproducitve to the stated goal of less permablocking. And that's what, and should be, what people are up in arms about it.
Then again, you dont care. PVE players are second class citizens to you. Rights? Opinions? We dont deserve those, oh no.
Also, I love how your telling me I dont have any buisness tanking when you've stated you dont PVE, so why dont you practice what you preach?
Got my info from players on the leader boards. You cant say the same for pvp though can you? Sounds like a L2P issue honestly lol
Stop lying about me.
I dont run blocktanks, I've told you that ad infinitum. These are observations anyone with a basic understanding of how tanks work in this game can make, and I dont need to have a vested interest to make them. So I can only assume your deliberately attempting to lie about me.
Idk what you're talking about "lying about you". Have you been on the PTS to test the block changes?
Yes.
Was actually a buff for me. (At the very least it didn't effect me, given I didn't have enough reliance on blocking to really matter.) The only people I really see this effecting are tanks in PVE, honestly. Because if the PVP crowd can sustain through stamina potions now, against stamina poisons and everything else, it's not gonna impact them all that much with these changes. And like plenty of people have made very clear to you, half the mitigation they get comes from healing.
Which begs the question, if the only people this really effects were PVE tanks, and we want less blocking from PVE tanks, why do we have so many fights that make it absolutely necessary? And why are those fights not being changed?
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Aaand you keep lying about me by insinuating that I apparently need to 'l2p' with a blocktank, which is the only context in which that sentance makes sense. But I dont run blocktanks. So which is it? Are you lying about me, or are you just talking at a perception rather than a person?
If you have a entire team wailing on a tank and you cannot kill them, surely, it is you who must learn to play, for your DPS must really suck, no?
Edit: Yeah, just hopped back on the PTS. The only people who will be at all effected will be the people taking hits at a rapid enough manner in order for it to manner. (IE: PVE Tanks.) All the PVP ones will likely just switch to major offense and wreck you anyway, so I dont really know what your clamoring about.
Sidenote: Explain to me something. Did you just forget about stamina drain poisons, or bursting the healer down? Even as someone with such a cursory idea of PVP as me, these solutions come to mind. So what are you not telling me, mister learn to play? What tactics have you tried? I am deeply, deeply curious.
If anything, this new shift toward agressive play with interruption on abilities will solve your turtle problem in and of itself, no? Tanks may see a new roll in battlegrounds, which will be interruption.
And after having tested it on the PTS, I can safely say if this continues in this manner you will likely see less tanks, you will likely see less people running fights like AA, Rakkat, until those fights are nerfed, or this change is reversed. So if the intent was to get less people to PVE, mission accomplished. S'not gonna make the game more healthy by a longshot though. Not until the content is edited to suit. And trust me. A healthy endgame community in PVE contributes to the games health. PVP is not all there is, if people dont like PVP (And trust me, that's not a small audience) and have nothing to aspire to or stick around for....they just wont. Eventually you run out of churn.
TL;DR.
Yeah, I didn't think you'd have an answer to most of that.
And, ignored. Have a nice day, far, far away from me.
Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 8, 2018 9:34PM0 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Thats a very bad example. Velidreth does not need permablocking. Even the mechanics of the fight itself keep you from actually tanking the boss the entire time.2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Thats a very bad example. Velidreth does not need permablocking. Even the mechanics of the fight itself keep you from actually tanking the boss the entire time.
At certain points you will have to tank enough for the stamina changes to have an impact. Tanking the adds, her continuous strikes that cause vulnerability, ect. That's on top of the resource drain mechanics allready.
Even if it's not permablocking, your team support capability is gonna be neutered, and that means the DPS is gonna take longer, which means more margin for error.
The fight does not need to have constant damage for the block changes to be bad, it just has to put enough strain on you that you cant actively support your team, and then the cracks begin to form.
Even if your not permablocking the changes are not very good. For most fights, or for fights like this one where there's alot of onus on the tank. Mazzatun willl be even worse for this. This is going to make the margin for error in minmaxing even less, cause a rift in the PVE community on who will actually even be allowed to run things at high level, and creates needless division for a problem that simply didn't exist. How they want to do blocking is counterintuitive to how they have designed the game up to this point.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 9, 2018 7:36AM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Thats a very bad example. Velidreth does not need permablocking. Even the mechanics of the fight itself keep you from actually tanking the boss the entire time.
At certain points you will have to tank enough for the stamina changes to have an impact. Tanking the adds, her continuous strikes that cause vulnerability, ect. That's on top of the resource drain mechanics allready.
Even if it's not permablocking, your team support capability is gonna be neutered, and that means the DPS is gonna take longer, which means more margin for error.
The fight does not need to have constant damage for the block changes to be bad, it just has to put enough strain on you that you cant actively support your team, and then the cracks begin to form.
Even if your not permablocking the changes are not very good. For most fights, or for fights like this one where there's alot of onus on the tank. Mazzatun willl be even worse for this. This is going to make the margin for error in minmaxing even less, cause a rift in the PVE community on who will actually even be allowed to run things at high level, and creates needless division for a problem that simply didn't exist. How they want to do blocking is counterintuitive to how they have designed the game up to this point.
I didnt say that PVE tanking didnt get harder. I just simply said that ur example was bad in terms of "permablocking demanding content". If DPS are taking too long to do their job, the tank hits every *** spore around him and doesnt heavy attack every now and then, it doesnt mean that the velidreth requires permablock.Edited by pieratsos on February 9, 2018 7:26PM0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Thats a very bad example. Velidreth does not need permablocking. Even the mechanics of the fight itself keep you from actually tanking the boss the entire time.
At certain points you will have to tank enough for the stamina changes to have an impact. Tanking the adds, her continuous strikes that cause vulnerability, ect. That's on top of the resource drain mechanics allready.
Even if it's not permablocking, your team support capability is gonna be neutered, and that means the DPS is gonna take longer, which means more margin for error.
The fight does not need to have constant damage for the block changes to be bad, it just has to put enough strain on you that you cant actively support your team, and then the cracks begin to form.
Even if your not permablocking the changes are not very good. For most fights, or for fights like this one where there's alot of onus on the tank. Mazzatun willl be even worse for this. This is going to make the margin for error in minmaxing even less, cause a rift in the PVE community on who will actually even be allowed to run things at high level, and creates needless division for a problem that simply didn't exist. How they want to do blocking is counterintuitive to how they have designed the game up to this point.
I didnt say that PVE tanking didnt get harder. I just simply said that ur example was bad in terms of "permablocking demanding content". If DPS are taking too long to do their job, the tank hits every *** spore around him and doesnt heavy attack every now and then, it doesnt mean that the velidreth requires permablock.
Why are you so intent on defining this very stupid term that has limited applicable use over discussing the continued degredation of the combat system,causing changes which widen the rift in the community through unrealistic standards?Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 9, 2018 8:29PM0 -
Twohothardware wrote: »To everyone complaining about permablock I urge you to try and tank Bloodroot forge last boss hard mode. While all 3 bosses are there, theres not 1 second where it's safe to heavy attack.
As long as ZOS keep designing content like this, we NEED permablock.
I'm not even arguing that permablock is a stupid dull mechanic, yes it is of course - but some of the harder content would need to be adjusted to account for it's removal as well:
- There's just too many ridiculously hard hitting attacks that can one shot a TANK
- on some bosses like Earthgore amalgam and his sons these super heavy attacks also occur WAY too frequently
- the animations and telegraphs for these one shot mechanics are often too difficult to read, or not perfectly in sync with 'expected' timing (saint olms sometimes slaps you to death before his claw even touches the player and stuff like that)
Edit: Oh and P.S. may god have mercy on your soul if you try to tank with an Ice staff where the heavy attacks are almost 2 times slower.
Then you adjust the content but permablocking shouldn't be a thing in PvE or PvP. It takes the skill out to knowing when to block and when to just take damage, roll dodge, ect.
but it IS a thing lol...and dodge rolling takes stam what ?...0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To the people who just hate permablocking like it's disco or something:
Wanna see it gone?
Continue to pressure ZOS to change the fundemental design of how trials deliver damage, and how dungeons deliver damage, and for them to change the specific bossfights that put pressure on tanks to block for extended periods of time. Get them to change every instance where we need to sustain block to damage we can just eat. Otherwise, it'll continue to be an issue.1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Thats a very bad example. Velidreth does not need permablocking. Even the mechanics of the fight itself keep you from actually tanking the boss the entire time.
At certain points you will have to tank enough for the stamina changes to have an impact. Tanking the adds, her continuous strikes that cause vulnerability, ect. That's on top of the resource drain mechanics allready.
Even if it's not permablocking, your team support capability is gonna be neutered, and that means the DPS is gonna take longer, which means more margin for error.
The fight does not need to have constant damage for the block changes to be bad, it just has to put enough strain on you that you cant actively support your team, and then the cracks begin to form.
Even if your not permablocking the changes are not very good. For most fights, or for fights like this one where there's alot of onus on the tank. Mazzatun willl be even worse for this. This is going to make the margin for error in minmaxing even less, cause a rift in the PVE community on who will actually even be allowed to run things at high level, and creates needless division for a problem that simply didn't exist. How they want to do blocking is counterintuitive to how they have designed the game up to this point.
I didnt say that PVE tanking didnt get harder. I just simply said that ur example was bad in terms of "permablocking demanding content". If DPS are taking too long to do their job, the tank hits every *** spore around him and doesnt heavy attack every now and then, it doesnt mean that the velidreth requires permablock.
Why are you so intent on defining this very stupid term that has limited applicable use over discussing the continued degredation of the combat system,causing changes which widen the rift in the community through unrealistic standards?
Permablocking is not a stupid term and if it has a very limited applicable use then the block cost increase doesnt hurt as much since you can easily get ur stamina back by doing a couple of heavy attacks every now and then.
0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Great example is the endboss of cradle of shadows. This is a boss that inflicts bleed, vulnerability, spawns multiple adds which you will have to tank, and strikes in a rapid manner at multiple points with no cooldown on these abilities. How are you supposed to work with that unless you basicly tailor yourself to not do anything else? Furthermore, since the hyperspecialization with little reward is why there are so few PVE tanks now, how is this a good idea?
Thats a very bad example. Velidreth does not need permablocking. Even the mechanics of the fight itself keep you from actually tanking the boss the entire time.
At certain points you will have to tank enough for the stamina changes to have an impact. Tanking the adds, her continuous strikes that cause vulnerability, ect. That's on top of the resource drain mechanics allready.
Even if it's not permablocking, your team support capability is gonna be neutered, and that means the DPS is gonna take longer, which means more margin for error.
The fight does not need to have constant damage for the block changes to be bad, it just has to put enough strain on you that you cant actively support your team, and then the cracks begin to form.
Even if your not permablocking the changes are not very good. For most fights, or for fights like this one where there's alot of onus on the tank. Mazzatun willl be even worse for this. This is going to make the margin for error in minmaxing even less, cause a rift in the PVE community on who will actually even be allowed to run things at high level, and creates needless division for a problem that simply didn't exist. How they want to do blocking is counterintuitive to how they have designed the game up to this point.
I didnt say that PVE tanking didnt get harder. I just simply said that ur example was bad in terms of "permablocking demanding content". If DPS are taking too long to do their job, the tank hits every *** spore around him and doesnt heavy attack every now and then, it doesnt mean that the velidreth requires permablock.
Why are you so intent on defining this very stupid term that has limited applicable use over discussing the continued degredation of the combat system,causing changes which widen the rift in the community through unrealistic standards?
Permablocking is not a stupid term and if it has a very limited applicable use then the block cost increase doesnt hurt as much since you can easily get ur stamina back by doing a couple of heavy attacks every now and then.
I believe a person above said 'how about you tank earthgore and try the whole 'heavy attack' bit.'
I suggest you do it, because it sounds like you dunno what your talking about, and are parroting the lazy responses of people who dislike blocking on reflex.0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭Seems the latest round of posts are getting way too toxic. Let me break it down into simple terms:
- I've bolded the key pointZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »We’ve also changed Block cost jewelry enchantments to work similarly to Magicka or Stamina cost reduction jewelry enchantments. Builds utilizing those enchantments (and other reductions to Block cost) were too effective at keeping block up.
In layman's terms: currently blocking is too easy and zos are re-balancing it. It really is as simple as that. There is no mention of pvp/pve of any sort so to argue that one is damaging the other is just speculation and has no weight behind it. I find it really hard to believe that zos are turning a blind eye and disregarding the community. This is a measured change that has been tested and the adjustment is considered by zos to be fit for purpose.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0
