ZOS, please detox this game a little bit. Show other people's CP up to a maximum of 160!

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

You really want to detox this game's dungeon finder woes. This problem is simple to solve...

Just get rid of the dumb timer. Stop punishing the wrong people for other players laziness and self entitlement towards being carried, and preventing the group from getting a clear.

If people had to choice to leave a group that's doomed to fail at the start. And be able to requeue for the dungeon right away. This toxicity with group finder wouldn't even be a thing.

There is a good reason why some of us with high end game content clears. Nolonger even bother with dungeons anymore. More so vet dungeons, even more so vet DLC dungeons which is 9 times out of 10 a auto fail due to a dps that just have C-Frags on repeat cast...(Not even joking about 4 months ago, this happened to me) Or that tank who has not taunt and goes Werewolf and group continually dies to first boss for 45 mins. Or that healer in vRoM who don't use a resto staff.

If we had to option to just leave groups like that at no penalty. Most if not all of the toxicity would clear up overnight. Since we can't it's the toxic wild wild west out there in group finder. And most of us players that can run the content very smootly are just not bothering. Because it's just not worth the headache nor grief. I plays a video game to have fun not to get trolled, or to have to babysit some can't be asked or told how to play rando.

So yeah good luck out there in the Wild Wild West fellow gamers!

Ok guys instead of feeding into this pointless divide and conquer we are being subjected to. How about we face the real issue instead of pointing pointless fingers at each other.

THE FLIPPING DUNGEON TIMER! There is really nothing else that should be blamed other then this. ZO$ needs to simply get rid of the tacky divide and conquer tactics between vets and new players. And you simpletons needs to stop jumping at every turn to become divided clowns to other people's show.

If players have the options to remove themselves from a party without being punished. The toxicity would instantly drop by a huge mergain. New players would not be kicked because, others will just simply leave and requeue.

Bad enough us real non troll dpses who don't troll, and queue as healer or tank in vet DLC dungeons. Already have to wait super long queue times. But to punish us for getting unlucky and get put into a pointless group that is bound to fail at first boss by default. Because people just in most cases want to troll others. Then have to wait 15 minutes before being able to queue for in most cases 45 mins at minimal.

But since most of you guys are just simple simpletons. Go back to yalls pointless blame the other player game. I mean seriously get a clue! And start campaigning against the root of this issue, and not the victims on both sides of the fence.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

You really want to detox this game's dungeon finder woes. This problem is simple to solve...

Just get rid of the dumb timer. Stop punishing the wrong people for other players laziness and self entitlement towards being carried, and preventing the group from getting a clear.

If people had to choice to leave a group that's doomed to fail at the start. And be able to requeue for the dungeon right away. This toxicity with group finder wouldn't even be a thing.

There is a good reason why some of us with high end game content clears. Nolonger even bother with dungeons anymore. More so vet dungeons, even more so vet DLC dungeons which is 9 times out of 10 a auto fail due to a dps that just have C-Frags on repeat cast...(Not even joking about 4 months ago, this happened to me) Or that tank who has not taunt and goes Werewolf and group continually dies to first boss for 45 mins. Or that healer in vRoM who don't use a resto staff.

If we had to option to just leave groups like that at no penalty. Most if not all of the toxicity would clear up overnight. Since we can't it's the toxic wild wild west out there in group finder. And most of us players that can run the content very smootly are just not bothering. Because it's just not worth the headache nor grief. I plays a video game to have fun not to get trolled, or to have to babysit some can't be asked or told how to play rando.

So yeah good luck out there in the Wild Wild West fellow gamers!

Ok guys instead of feeding into this pointless divide and conquer we are being subjected to. How about we face the real issue instead of pointing pointless fingers at each other.

THE FLIPPING DUNGEON TIMER! There is really nothing else that should be blamed other then this. ZO$ needs to simply get rid of the tacky divide and conquer tactics between vets and new players. And you simpletons needs to stop jumping at every turn to become divided clowns to other people's show.

If players have the options to remove themselves from a party without being punished. The toxicity would instantly drop by a huge mergain. New players would not be kicked because, others will just simply leave and requeue.

Bad enough us real non troll dpses who don't troll, and queue as healer or tank in vet DLC dungeons. Already have to wait super long queue times. But to punish us for getting unlucky and get put into a pointless group that is bound to fail at first boss by default. Because people just in most cases want to troll others. Then have to wait 15 minutes before being able to queue for in most cases 45 mins at minimal.

But since most of you guys are just simple simpletons. Go back to yalls pointless blame the other player game. I mean seriously get a clue! And start campaigning against the root of this issue, and not the victims on both sides of the fence.

I have news for you, there's always been a penalty. The timer simply places it in the right spot (most of the time.)

The timer does serve a purpose, keeping people from deciding if they want to stay in the random they just got accepted into, or if they want to leave for non-clearance-related issues.

It punishes those in the group trying to queue the dungeon, while the incoming player that just left because

They don't want to do this particular random dungeon.
There dog needs to eat lunch in 3 minutes.
They readied up but need 10 more minutes to craft, enchant, upgrade, and wear gear.

Under your suggestion, that person simply exits, and requeues (likely immediately, because there is no more penalty.) and the remaining individuals get to repeat the process ad infinitum.

Granted, there are some dumb exceptions that the GF shouldn't punish, such as you arrive onsite and the group decides to disband, or you're legit capable in your role, but the other(s) have BS'd the role selection to queue faster and can't clear as a result, or you show up to last boss clear, clear in 2 minutes, and still have to wait 13 more to queue again.

Those are some of the exceptions.

When you queue:

Be (relatively close to) ready.
Be able to do the damn role you queued as.
Be prepared, short of and IRL emergency, to dedicate 10-30 minutes of your time to clear the content you queued for.

If GF pops and I have 1 space left in my inventory, guess what? I'm not looting anything.
If I get queued into the same dungeon I've done 12 times today, guess what again? I'm staying to help clear.

I'm not going to screw over the present group because the things I essentially agreed to the moment I hit the Search button suddenly don't apply.

That's why the penalty was added. That's why (with exceptions) the penalty needs to stay.

It's supposed to punish the people abusing the GF queue, not the legit groups waiting for a completed group to finish.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Other poster understand just fine. If you don't think there is typically a tremendous difference in between a CP160 (having the gear cap) and a max CP player in certain content, then I'm not the one missing the point.

Yes, you are missing the point. Of course there's a difference between them. That difference shouldn't matter. Vet content was already completed without a max CP player. It was the norm and the every day standard and we STILL did our daily pledges just fine. The only content one should struggle with is the kind released post CP addition, i.e. DLC dungeons.

Except the difference clearly does matter, more often than not, or this thread would not even exist.

Yes, good players could clear content early. Most players could eventually clear it around the intended scaled level. Prior to CP's and One Tamriel's super scaling, you could enter a VR12 dungeon with a group of VR2's, but you were far more likely to get your ass handed to you in the process.

Just because the gear stops at 160, the difficulty level of the content and the advantages of additional CP (up to or close to cap) do make a difference for the average player. Just because the game will let you walk in the door at 160 doesn't mean you're guaranteed a clear.

The original progression compensated for this automatically. Scaling took that away as a tool, so CP # is the generally the next baseline experienced groups use to know whether it's worth even trying past the first boss.

If CP160 was truly the only requirement, clears, CP#, and half a dozen other variables would not even matter.

Clearly, they do.

Robby94 · February 2018

Just out of interest, how many of you have been insta kicked and what platform? PC Xbox Ps4 and what server. It would be interesting to see which community seems more judgemental.

Saying that i agree that if your not pulling your weight and hindering your groups chances of completing content you shouldnt be queueing for vet content until your ready for it.

Inarre · February 2018

SoLooney wrote: »

lol the max cps are voting no and the low cps are voting yes

Please explain me then...

VelociousLegend · February 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

Back when veteran ranks were still a thing, you could only see "VR16" as players' maximum level. However, CP still existed. Some people had 160, others had 1000. But no one could see the amount of people's CP. Once the VR ranks were gone, toxicity started (that didn't exist before):

...

Terrible idea. No.

Also, you're being naive if you believe toxicity didn't exist prior to removing vet ranks.

Inarre · February 2018

VelociousLegend wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

Back when veteran ranks were still a thing, you could only see "VR16" as players' maximum level. However, CP still existed. Some people had 160, others had 1000. But no one could see the amount of people's CP. Once the VR ranks were gone, toxicity started (that didn't exist before):

...

Terrible idea. No.

Also, you're being naive if you believe toxicity didn't exist prior to removing vet ranks.

There has always been toxicity and there always will be toxicity. The point is to not provide toxic players a scale on which to measure their prey. People feel justified to kick players based on this number and it's ridiculous, but that's humanity. And because that's humanity, hopefully zos will step up and protect the new players who are joining their game....

If i was new to the game and couldn't get a dungeon group because every time i got a party i got kicked for my cp id walk right back out that door. And when players leave the game, especially new players, that's bad in the long run for all of us.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

You really want to detox this game's dungeon finder woes. This problem is simple to solve...

Just get rid of the dumb timer. Stop punishing the wrong people for other players laziness and self entitlement towards being carried, and preventing the group from getting a clear.

If people had to choice to leave a group that's doomed to fail at the start. And be able to requeue for the dungeon right away. This toxicity with group finder wouldn't even be a thing.

There is a good reason why some of us with high end game content clears. Nolonger even bother with dungeons anymore. More so vet dungeons, even more so vet DLC dungeons which is 9 times out of 10 a auto fail due to a dps that just have C-Frags on repeat cast...(Not even joking about 4 months ago, this happened to me) Or that tank who has not taunt and goes Werewolf and group continually dies to first boss for 45 mins. Or that healer in vRoM who don't use a resto staff.

If we had to option to just leave groups like that at no penalty. Most if not all of the toxicity would clear up overnight. Since we can't it's the toxic wild wild west out there in group finder. And most of us players that can run the content very smootly are just not bothering. Because it's just not worth the headache nor grief. I plays a video game to have fun not to get trolled, or to have to babysit some can't be asked or told how to play rando.

So yeah good luck out there in the Wild Wild West fellow gamers!

Ok guys instead of feeding into this pointless divide and conquer we are being subjected to. How about we face the real issue instead of pointing pointless fingers at each other.

THE FLIPPING DUNGEON TIMER! There is really nothing else that should be blamed other then this. ZO$ needs to simply get rid of the tacky divide and conquer tactics between vets and new players. And you simpletons needs to stop jumping at every turn to become divided clowns to other people's show.

If players have the options to remove themselves from a party without being punished. The toxicity would instantly drop by a huge mergain. New players would not be kicked because, others will just simply leave and requeue.

Bad enough us real non troll dpses who don't troll, and queue as healer or tank in vet DLC dungeons. Already have to wait super long queue times. But to punish us for getting unlucky and get put into a pointless group that is bound to fail at first boss by default. Because people just in most cases want to troll others. Then have to wait 15 minutes before being able to queue for in most cases 45 mins at minimal.

But since most of you guys are just simple simpletons. Go back to yalls pointless blame the other player game. I mean seriously get a clue! And start campaigning against the root of this issue, and not the victims on both sides of the fence.

I have news for you, there's always been a penalty. The timer simply places it in the right spot (most of the time.)

The timer does serve a purpose, keeping people from deciding if they want to stay in the random they just got accepted into, or if they want to leave for non-clearance-related issues.

It punishes those in the group trying to queue the dungeon, while the incoming player that just left because
They don't want to do this particular random dungeon.

There dog needs to eat lunch in 3 minutes.

They readied up but need 10 more minutes to craft, enchant, upgrade, and wear gear.

Under your suggestion, that person simply exits, and requeues (likely immediately, because there is no more penalty.) and the remaining individuals get to repeat the process ad infinitum.

Granted, there are some dumb exceptions that the GF shouldn't punish, such as you arrive onsite and the group decides to disband, or you're legit capable in your role, but the other(s) have BS'd the role selection to queue faster and can't clear as a result, or you show up to last boss clear, clear in 2 minutes, and still have to wait 13 more to queue again.

Those are some of the exceptions.

When you queue:
Be (relatively close to) ready.

Be able to do the damn role you queued as.

Be prepared, short of and IRL emergency, to dedicate 10-30 minutes of your time to clear the content you queued for.

If GF pops and I have 1 space left in my inventory, guess what? I'm not looting anything.
If I get queued into the same dungeon I've done 12 times today, guess what again? I'm staying to help clear.

I'm not going to screw over the present group because the things I essentially agreed to the moment I hit the Search button suddenly don't apply.

That's why the penalty was added. That's why (with exceptions) the penalty needs to stay.

It's supposed to punish the people abusing the GF queue, not the legit groups waiting for a completed group to finish.

Ok but there are way more pros than cons, for getting rid of the group finder timer.

*Pros*

- You are not punished for being in a group of trolls that is destin to fail from the starts. (Troll tank, dps, healer.) (Trolls in Vet DLC dungeons, as dps just spamming hard casted C-Frags, or healers who just heavy attack, or tanks that don't tank and Werewolf it out.) Which is mostly only done to ruining players day, inorder to make them salty.
- Players are no longer getting kicked to being Suboptimal, which in my opinion is the least reason why players get kicked.(See point above. this one)
- People can actually have a choice to leave a pointless situation without being punished or kicking the other players who are either just trolling, demanding to be carried, or refused to listen to helpful advice and learn the mechanics. ( This fact is the single most reason I see groups kick players.)

*Cons*

- The problem players have to wait for more players to join their instances. Which due to what was said above would instantly leave. instead of just flatout kicking, as we see is being done now.

I personally don't care all that much. Because I have all the pieces of gear and items i want from Vet Dungeons. Therefor see no point into subjecting myself to such horrible people and experiences. Therefor as now you will rarely ever see me do Vet Dungeons these days. Because what's the point of having to be punished because of trolls or other willfulness nature to reject any advice or the concept of learning how to play.

Therefor with this current system and timer. I don't see any benefit to me even doing them at all, if I can't form a guild group. Which as more and more start experiencing and doing as I do. You end at a situation far worse then what don't want to happen by getting rid of the timer. (No vets even bother to do PUGs anymore because it leads to nothing but a unfair, and not fun, headache experience. In which case again, the legit new players and low level CP players as is seen now. Are mostly preemptively judge unworthy of a lot of vets time.

Which again just leds to yet another one of these topics on the forums. Because the anti-vet players don't want to take responsibility for others not wanting to play with them. And improve themselves in a way where players are not trying to leave group at the first sight of them.

A bit of a secret most of us that's been playing this game for years. Can just look at someone in the middle of a dungeon. And pretty much know if or not that group is going to fail or not within 2 minutes of the run. More so if we are talking about PC where there are addons telling you which buffs and passives are active and not. So why punish us for 15 mins. Why not just make the Vet Dungeons easy enough, for people to be able to just spam light attack, non stop inorder to clear?

Regardless if or not people can see your CPs or not. If you are underperforming to the point it's absolutely detrimental to the success of your group. People are either going to leave or in most cases now, just kick them.

ZOS created this Elitist System where if a member of your group is not performing well enough to clear. Then you don't get a clear!

Inorder to stop the toxicity you will either have to give people, the option to leave a failed group without a 15 minute timer. (Which btw is not a original mechanic for group finder it was added in much later on. Which is around the time the toxicity increase a lot. Hmmmmm I wonder why?) Or ZOS will have to make all Vet Dungeons so easy. That it don't matter if or not a player tries, or just light attack the whole dungeon, your group will just succeed.

Or you can just do what someone else stated above. And just get rid of the group finder altogether. Which I personally find is a valid solution to that problem. However that solution would be too drastic, to amend a problem that is easily solved with a much lighter and easier touch!

brimstone74 · February 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

I concur. We only want to kick the BAD dps players. Not everyone who is new to the game.

Yeah I won't even attempt trials as I am at 480-ish cp. I am probably fine for normals, and maybe a casual vet run. It's the pug rejection I don't want to deal with. To the point, it would be better if we could measure the actual outcome people are after as stated here.

It's not the size of the CP, it's what you do with it...ok within limits....but the point stands <---see what i did there....

kongkim · February 2018

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Zos needs to add a training grounds so people can properly be vetted for vet dungeons.

I don't care what CP you have, if you cant pull 20k dps we can't get hard modes done.

This is so much BS and the idea is that ruin the game for the not hardcore players.

LordSemaj · February 2018

Bbsample197 wrote: »

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

No. Bring back group damage meters so people can be properly and legitimately kicked for low dps, not low CP.

"LFG FG1 cp690+" i swear ive seen that once a week

yes to this!!!! bring back group damage meter!! i dont care how low cp you are but if youre doing waay more dps than the cp690 ones seriously though after the new lif festival im seeing alot of 690 who doesnt dodge a red circle!!! thinking they could survive the attack just cause theyre max cp.

^ This. Currently CP excludes people irrationally. While DPS meters aren't perfect, they are more rational than a measure of how much time you've spent grinding.

Kingslayer513 · February 2018

What is up with this "the sky is falling" crowd? I'm on PC NA and I pretty much exclusively PUG for dungeons, unless people from one of my trading guilds want to do some. People getting kicked is definitely the rarity from all my PUG experience. Even for vet DLC, it is much more likely that an attempt is made up to the first boss or so, but then realize that the dps is way too low or a healer/tank isn't up to snuff. At that point, we usually politely say "sorry guys, this isn't going to be possible, the dps is too low". I can't actually remember a single time where I PUG and a vote to kick a low cp started immediately.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

kongkim wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Zos needs to add a training grounds so people can properly be vetted for vet dungeons.

I don't care what CP you have, if you cant pull 20k dps we can't get hard modes done.

This is so much BS and the idea is that ruin the game for the not hardcore players.

Actually that is the BS that ZOS enforces on it's players. By placing DPS challenge and races. In which if the boss is not destroyed in "x" seconds the encounter instantly kills the group. That's just some of the challenges for dps tho. Not going to mention healer and tank checks as well!

These are not mechanisms created by the players. These are mechanisms created by the devs themselves! So stop blaming players for playing accordingly, to how the devs forces them to behave. In order to clear content and progress in the game.

Yet you guys are such simpletons, that you remain completely oblivious to the social project we are caught in, GG RIP! So go on keep blaming others like yourselves for abiding to the regulations that the devs put on us all.

I have a better idea. How about instead of blaming others who have no part in you sucking at the game, and refusing to adapt. You actually either do either or any combinations of the following.

A.) Start getting good in order to perform to the requirements that the devs place on you!

B.) Instead of calling other players toxic and demanding that they use their limited time. To carry you, because you can't be asked to learn how to carry yourself as a group member. By making all content in the game completable, by just light attacking non stop.

C.) Continue acting like insignificant peons. Blaming the wrong group of people, for problems they have nothing to do with!

D.) Just pack it in and give up.

The choice is yalls.

But I bet yall would rather continue action like apes. instead of trying to at least understand what I have said here. Thus no matter how many stats ZOS hides from other people. You will also either be kicked from the group, or people will leave you in a group by yourselves, or you will fail every single vet hardmode encounter in this game. While others are doing them with their eyes closed. hmm i wonder at that point who's the joke truly on?

As long as there are requirements to clear content in this game. If you don't meet said requirement you will nearly always get left behind or kicked to the side. After all you are not the only one in the party. You have 3 other human beings who are trying to complete said content as well. Stop being a self entitled little troll. Get good and learn to play....(By that I mean, get yourself into a position where you can meet basic requirements to clear the content.)

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

Kingslayer513 wrote: »

What is up with this "the sky is falling" crowd? I'm on PC NA and I pretty much exclusively PUG for dungeons, unless people from one of my trading guilds want to do some. People getting kicked is definitely the rarity from all my PUG experience. Even for vet DLC, it is much more likely that an attempt is made up to the first boss or so, but then realize that the dps is way too low or a healer/tank isn't up to snuff. At that point, we usually politely say "sorry guys, this isn't going to be possible, the dps is too low". I can't actually remember a single time where I PUG and a vote to kick a low cp started immediately.

That was the same from my experience as well. The only people that mostly got kicked. Was people who not only had nothing to offer the group. But also prevented the group from completing said content. Thus for they needed to be removed.

JJBoomer · February 2018

Again. If you don't like PUGs, then DON'T use the Group Finder. If you're one of these super special awesome skilled players, then you should have no problem finding people to clear content with the old fashioned way. Making friends. Running content, creating custom groups. Or is that beyond the capabilities of the super skilled? Because if so, then I am confused.

PUGs, more often than not where they exist, are meant to be more of a social experience. If PUGs were guarantees to be paired with players for a 100% promised win, then there wouldn't be a problem.

Being paired with randoms actually forces you to 1) interact with new people, 2) practice being thrown into a situation you aren't completely preapred for, which actually presents some challenge. (something people apparently want, but i guess too picky with how it gets presented?)

Basically again, all I'm hearing is that skilled players want everything their way, and they want it handed it to them by ZOS.

At the end of the day, don't like Group finder? Don't use it. Make groups the old way so that you can KNOW you will succeed. If you can't do that, or refuse to do so because of laziness, then frankly...suffer.

Otherwise this is dead horse that's been beaten into a grave and creates an environment no one wants to be a part of, which leads to game death, which then also gets complained about by the same people that cause it.

Ugh. Done. I guess gone are the days where games used to exist to have fun, where skill wasn't everything, and being given a chance to get better was actually a legitimate thing people did for each other.

LiquidPony · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Zos needs to add a training grounds so people can properly be vetted for vet dungeons.

I don't care what CP you have, if you cant pull 20k dps we can't get hard modes done.

This is so much BS and the idea is that ruin the game for the not hardcore players.

Actually that is the BS that ZOS enforces on it's players. By placing DPS challenge and races. In which if the boss is not destroyed in "x" seconds the encounter instantly kills the group. That's just some of the challenges for dps tho. Not going to mention healer and tank checks as well!

These are not mechanisms created by the players. These are mechanisms created by the devs themselves! So stop blaming players for playing accordingly, to how the devs forces them to behave. In order to clear content and progress in the game.

Yet you guys are such simpletons, that you remain completely oblivious to the social project we are caught in, GG RIP! So go on keep blaming others like yourselves for abiding to the regulations that the devs put on us all.

I have a better idea. How about instead of blaming others who have no part in you sucking at the game, and refusing to adapt. You actually either do either or any combinations of the following.

A.) Start getting good in order to perform to the requirements that the devs place on you!

B.) Instead of calling other players toxic and demanding that they use their limited time. To carry you, because you can't be asked to learn how to carry yourself as a group member. By making all content in the game completable, by just light attacking non stop.

C.) Continue acting like insignificant peons. Blaming the wrong group of people, for problems they have nothing to do with!

D.) Just pack it in and give up.

The choice is yalls.

But I bet yall would rather continue action like apes. instead of trying to at least understand what I have said here. Thus no matter how many stats ZOS hides from other people. You will also either be kicked from the group, or people will leave you in a group by yourselves, or you will fail every single vet hardmode encounter in this game. While others are doing them with their eyes closed. hmm i wonder at that point who's the joke truly on?

As long as there are requirements to clear content in this game. If you don't meet said requirement you will nearly always get left behind or kicked to the side. After all you are not the only one in the party. You have 3 other human beings who are trying to complete said content as well. Stop being a self entitled little troll. Get good and learn to play....(By that I mean, get yourself into a position where you can meet basic requirements to clear the content.)

Congrats on not actually grasping the issue at all or bothering to read or understand the perspectives of anyone else in this thread. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You deserve a dunce cap and a 15-minute timeout.

Word of the day: empathy.

I don't even know that there's any point in addressing this steaming pile of oblivious garbage, but I'll try to do so as succinctly as I can.

The problem has nothing to do with player skill, or "getting good," or being unable to perform up to the content's requirements, or anything remotely like that.

The problem is simply that people get kicked from Activity Finder groups exclusively because of the number of CP they have.

Now, as is guaranteed in any post on the internet where someone describes an issue they are having, there are numerous "well I've never experienced this problem so it must be your fault" responses. But let's ignore those, because they are stupid. Rewind to our word of the day: empathy.

Again, as others have posted similar experiences in this thread, last night I got insta-kicked from an Activity Finder dungeon for the 4th time in a week. For vet Elden Hollow 1, which is an unbelievably easy dungeon with no DPS checks or damage mechanics that can't easily be handled by a CP160 (or lower) player. Kicked before the first trash pull, moments after porting into the dungeon, again.

Players do get booted simply for their CP. If you have not experienced this ... good for you. If you can't empathize with that, then what are you doing here? You have nothing to add to the conversation beyond patting yourself on the back for your amazing achievement of 690CP.

As stupid and ineffective as it is, Destiny 2's "Guided Games" feature includes agreeing to some silly pledge that you won't be a toxic, selfish prick when you use it. You're forced to acknowledge that you're entering into a matchmaking pool and you may not get an ideal group. The same concept is true in ESO. When you queue for the dungeon finder, you're rolling the dice.

If you don't like it, then don't use the dungeon finder.

I honestly can't even express how absolutely idiotic and hypocritical it is for people like you to call others "entitled" and then go off on this tone deaf diatribe.

Sevalaricgirl · February 2018

ZOS needs to get rid of CP completely.

drkfrontiers · February 2018

I'm nearing CP 350 and I still have not run any vet dungeons.

Not all that interested in Dungeons really. Either its populated by people that like to speed through the things, or ..holes that boss everyone around. Ain't going to suffer through a small part of the overall game just for a helmet. Sorry

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

ZOS needs to get rid of CP completely.

Getting rid of CP don't make players who can't be asked to learn mechanics, good.

Nor will getting rid of CP, allow players who can't be asked to be useful in a group setting. Not to get kicked from group settings.

Actually if ZOS was to get rid of CPs. That would make content much harder for all parties in question. Thus widen the gap and need to look for other like players to complete Vet HM content. The more experienced players will be able to cope just fine. However the players who are currently struggling, will struggle even more without their inflated stats. Math is math no matter how you try to look at it. 1 + 1 = 2 and 1000000 * 0 = 0.

So honestly be very careful what you wish for. Because it may just happen, and you will end up in a worst place then you previously was.

Meld777 · February 2018

[snip]

* I am the creator of this thread. The hiding CP is my idea to lessen toxicity.
* I have been playing this game since before CP existed.
* I have 1000+ CP.
* I, myself, am not looking to be carried. I have done the hardest content in this game, incl. the world 2nd vMoL no death, world 3rd Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vAS HM speedrun, etc.

Now that you know this about me, let me sum up my idea in very simple words. But before I do, please read every statement slowly, so that you understand each:

* Not all low CP players are bad.
* Many low CP players are very, very, very good.
* A 180 CP player who looked up a build and has decent crafted gear will have 5 times more DPS than a CP 690 who just grinded Skyreach, doesn't weave, and uses a random setup.
* With my suggestion you are not supposed to carry bad players. You are supposed to give low CP players a chance until you see them in action. If they suck, kick them.
* LOW CP DOES NOT MEAN BAD DPS/SKILL! A low CP player does not mean you need to carry them. Chances are, that low CP player is carrying you. You don't know unless you find out. You can't find out if you kick!

Yes, you are right, hiding CP will not save them if they are bad! But if they are good, it will!

And yes, I repeat, there are low CP player that are very good! If you remove all CP from a DD character, you will lose ~25% damage. CP is frontloaded. A CP 160 character has ~17% less damage potential than a CP 690. It means: If a player can do 50k DPS single target at 690 CP, the same player can do 41.5k single target on a CP160 character. That is 45.5k on a CP350 character. Again, I repeat, LOW CP DOES NOT MEAN YOU CARRY HIM!

My suggestion will force people to give every player a chance, no matter their CP! If they suck, they get kicked. But if they don't, they don't get kicked!

[Edit to remove bait.]

Sevalaricgirl · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Sevalaricgirl wrote: »

ZOS needs to get rid of CP completely.

Getting rid of CP don't make players who can't be asked to learn mechanics, good.

Nor will getting rid of CP, allow players who can't be asked to be useful in a group setting. Not to get kicked from group settings.

Actually if ZOS was to get rid of CPs. That would make content much harder for all parties in question. Thus widen the gap and need to look for other like players to complete Vet HM content. The more experienced players will be able to cope just fine. However the players who are currently struggling, will struggle even more without their inflated stats. Math is math no matter how you try to look at it. 1 + 1 = 2 and 1000000 * 0 = 0.

So honestly be very careful what you wish for. Because it may just happen, and you will end up in a worst place then you previously was.

Not if they go back to Vet levels which they never should have left. I thought CP was a good idea at first. It wasn't. It made for a toxic environment. And you've read it here. There are a lot of CP700+ that don't know jack about playing their class or the game. Hell, one of my crafters is getting CP just by standing around and crafting.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

[snip]

* I am the creator of this thread. The hiding CP is my idea to lessen toxicity.
* I have been playing this game since before CP existed.
* I have 1000+ CP.
* I, myself, am not looking to be carried. I have done the hardest content in this game, incl. the world 2nd vMoL no death, world 3rd Dro-m'Athra Destroyer, vAS HM speedrun, etc.

Now that you know this about me, let me sum up my idea in very simple words. But before I do, please read every statement slowly, so that you understand each:

* Not all low CP players are bad.
* Many low CP players are very, very, very good.
* A 180 CP player who looked up a build and has decent crafted gear will have 5 times more DPS than a CP 690 who just grinded Skyreach, doesn't weave, and uses a random setup.
* With my suggestion you are not supposed to carry bad players. You are supposed to give low CP players a chance until you see them in action. If they suck, kick them.
* LOW CP DOES NOT MEAN BAD DPS/SKILL! A low CP player does not mean you need to carry them. Chances are, that low CP player is carrying you. You don't know unless you find out. You can't find out if you kick!

Yes, you are right, hiding CP will not save them if they are bad! But if they are good, it will!

And yes, I repeat, there are low CP player that are very good! If you remove all CP from a DD character, you will lose ~25% damage. CP is frontloaded. A CP 160 character has ~17% less damage potential than a CP 690. It means: If a player can do 50k DPS single target at 690 CP, the same player can do 41.5k single target on a CP160 character. That is 45.5k on a CP350 character. Again, I repeat, LOW CP DOES NOT MEAN YOU CARRY HIM!

My suggestion will force people to give every player a chance, no matter their CP! If they suck, they get kicked. But if they don't, they don't get kicked!

[Edit to remove bait.]

Ok fine lets think about this. Take away CPs. Players will find something else to use a measure. "Hey man you got that vMoL skin. Show it or get kick!" "Hey man you get that vMA title? Show it or get kicked?" Hey man we see you only sitting there just hard casting C-Frags, get kicked scrub." See what I mean now?

Then yall will be right back here complaining about the next thing.

The only thing you can do to save these types of players. Are to lobby for ZOS to make all content. To include Vet HM content clearable by everyone only do light attacks. Other then that this will continue ad infinitum. Because yall are only fighting the symptoms to yalls issues, and not the root of it. (Content requires people to perform at a certain standard in order to clear.)

Jhalin · February 2018

1) Kicking low CP players isn't even close to the epidemic you're trying to imply it is. I have only seen cp-based kicks happen in DLC trials where low CP will quite literally get you killed by unavoidable mechanics because your health pool will be too low without the passive stats granted from CP

2) High CP = more experience with the game, obviously excluding people who bought accounts, and is a much safer bet for players who just want to blow through the dungeon and get their keys

3) If low CP players are so deathly afraid of getting kicked by "elitists", they can join one of the hundred of PvE guilds who'd be happy to run with them.

That's how I started, and now I only run pugs on my magblade where I know I can solo the thing if I need to. I've solo'd the Engine Guardian because none of my teammates could stay alive and eventually I just let them stay dead while I killed the boss.

I've gone into a BC2 run with three <cp160s. I did 75% of group dps while keeping aggro on boss, self healing, and grabbing rezzes when they died.

There comes a point when you stop being in the mood to carry people, and a sub cp160 toon is a good sign you're gonna have to carry someone.

Sure some of those rare kick-on-sight players exist, but most of the time, low cps are kicked because they cannot contribute to the group in the way they need to, and the group notices at the first boss.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

1) Kicking low CP players isn't even close to the epidemic you're trying to imply it is. I have only seen cp-based kicks happen in DLC trials where low CP will quite literally get you killed by unavoidable mechanics because your health pool will be too low without the passive stats granted from CP

2) High CP = more experience with the game, obviously excluding people who bought accounts, and is a much safer bet for players who just want to blow through the dungeon and get their keys

3) If low CP players are so deathly afraid of getting kicked by "elitists", they can join one of the hundred of PvE guilds who'd be happy to run with them.

That's how I started, and now I only run pugs on my magblade where I know I can solo the thing if I need to. I've solo'd the Engine Guardian because none of my teammates could stay alive and eventually I just let them stay dead while I killed the boss.

I've gone into a BC2 run with three <cp160s. I did 75% of group dps while keeping aggro on boss, self healing, and grabbing rezzes when they died.

There comes a point when you stop being in the mood to carry people, and a sub cp160 toon is a good sign you're gonna have to carry someone.

Sure some of those rare kick-on-sight players exist, but most of the time, low cps are kicked because they cannot contribute to the group in the way they need to, and the group notices at the first boss.

Pretty much. But you are trying to reason with people with torches and pitchforks, who are just out to destroy people who have a clue. Which is a pointless endeavor. Better to preemptively deal with them, or just avoid all forms of contact with them period.

ZOS_GregoryV · February 2018

Greetings,

Just a friendly reminder to all, lets try to keep it civil.

Thanks,
-Greg-

Inarre · February 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

kongkim wrote: »

KingYogi415 wrote: »

Zos needs to add a training grounds so people can properly be vetted for vet dungeons.

I don't care what CP you have, if you cant pull 20k dps we can't get hard modes done.

This is so much BS and the idea is that ruin the game for the not hardcore players.

Actually that is the BS that ZOS enforces on it's players. By placing DPS challenge and races. In which if the boss is not destroyed in "x" seconds the encounter instantly kills the group. That's just some of the challenges for dps tho. Not going to mention healer and tank checks as well!

These are not mechanisms created by the players. These are mechanisms created by the devs themselves! So stop blaming players for playing accordingly, to how the devs forces them to behave. In order to clear content and progress in the game.

Yet you guys are such simpletons, that you remain completely oblivious to the social project we are caught in, GG RIP! So go on keep blaming others like yourselves for abiding to the regulations that the devs put on us all.

I have a better idea. How about instead of blaming others who have no part in you sucking at the game, and refusing to adapt. You actually either do either or any combinations of the following.

A.) Start getting good in order to perform to the requirements that the devs place on you!

B.) Instead of calling other players toxic and demanding that they use their limited time. To carry you, because you can't be asked to learn how to carry yourself as a group member. By making all content in the game completable, by just light attacking non stop.

C.) Continue acting like insignificant peons. Blaming the wrong group of people, for problems they have nothing to do with!

D.) Just pack it in and give up.

The choice is yalls.

But I bet yall would rather continue action like apes. instead of trying to at least understand what I have said here. Thus no matter how many stats ZOS hides from other people. You will also either be kicked from the group, or people will leave you in a group by yourselves, or you will fail every single vet hardmode encounter in this game. While others are doing them with their eyes closed. hmm i wonder at that point who's the joke truly on?

As long as there are requirements to clear content in this game. If you don't meet said requirement you will nearly always get left behind or kicked to the side. After all you are not the only one in the party. You have 3 other human beings who are trying to complete said content as well. Stop being a self entitled little troll. Get good and learn to play....(By that I mean, get yourself into a position where you can meet basic requirements to clear the content.)

Congrats on not actually grasping the issue at all or bothering to read or understand the perspectives of anyone else in this thread. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever read. You deserve a dunce cap and a 15-minute timeout.

Word of the day: empathy.

I don't even know that there's any point in addressing this steaming pile of oblivious garbage, but I'll try to do so as succinctly as I can.

The problem has nothing to do with player skill, or "getting good," or being unable to perform up to the content's requirements, or anything remotely like that.

The problem is simply that people get kicked from Activity Finder groups exclusively because of the number of CP they have.

Now, as is guaranteed in any post on the internet where someone describes an issue they are having, there are numerous "well I've never experienced this problem so it must be your fault" responses. But let's ignore those, because they are stupid. Rewind to our word of the day: empathy.

Again, as others have posted similar experiences in this thread, last night I got insta-kicked from an Activity Finder dungeon for the 4th time in a week. For vet Elden Hollow 1, which is an unbelievably easy dungeon with no DPS checks or damage mechanics that can't easily be handled by a CP160 (or lower) player. Kicked before the first trash pull, moments after porting into the dungeon, again.

Players do get booted simply for their CP. If you have not experienced this ... good for you. If you can't empathize with that, then what are you doing here? You have nothing to add to the conversation beyond patting yourself on the back for your amazing achievement of 690CP.

As stupid and ineffective as it is, Destiny 2's "Guided Games" feature includes agreeing to some silly pledge that you won't be a toxic, selfish prick when you use it. You're forced to acknowledge that you're entering into a matchmaking pool and you may not get an ideal group. The same concept is true in ESO. When you queue for the dungeon finder, you're rolling the dice.

If you don't like it, then don't use the dungeon finder.

I honestly can't even express how absolutely idiotic and hypocritical it is for people like you to call others "entitled" and then go off on this tone deaf diatribe.

Jura23 · February 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

3) If low CP players are so deathly afraid of getting kicked by "elitists", they can join one of the hundred of PvE guilds who'd be happy to run with them.

If "elitists" are so worried about not carrying anyone, they can join one of the hundred of PvE guilds who'd be happy to run with them.

Inarre · February 2018

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

1) Kicking low CP players isn't even close to the epidemic you're trying to imply it is. I have only seen cp-based kicks happen in DLC trials where low CP will quite literally get you killed by unavoidable mechanics because your health pool will be too low without the passive stats granted from CP

2) High CP = more experience with the game, obviously excluding people who bought accounts, and is a much safer bet for players who just want to blow through the dungeon and get their keys

3) If low CP players are so deathly afraid of getting kicked by "elitists", they can join one of the hundred of PvE guilds who'd be happy to run with them.

That's how I started, and now I only run pugs on my magblade where I know I can solo the thing if I need to. I've solo'd the Engine Guardian because none of my teammates could stay alive and eventually I just let them stay dead while I killed the boss.

I've gone into a BC2 run with three <cp160s. I did 75% of group dps while keeping aggro on boss, self healing, and grabbing rezzes when they died.

There comes a point when you stop being in the mood to carry people, and a sub cp160 toon is a good sign you're gonna have to carry someone.

Sure some of those rare kick-on-sight players exist, but most of the time, low cps are kicked because they cannot contribute to the group in the way they need to, and the group notices at the first boss.

Pretty much. But you are trying to reason with people with torches and pitchforks, who are just out to destroy people who have a clue. Which is a pointless endeavor. Better to preemptively deal with them, or just avoid all forms of contact with them period.

Exactly. If you dont like pugs don't pug

jaschacasadiob16_ESO · February 2018

Honestly, you should avoid anyone who LF people based on CP. Being 690 only means you have those champions points to spend. It does not even guarantee you spend them wisely. No clues about gear, knowledge, brain, rotations.

People should start being a little less selfish. If I know I am not ready for some content I don't go, wasting everyone's time. But we all know that most ppl dont give a damn about others. You can see that in the zone chats.

You wanna find good people? Check titles or skins.
Vet trials, Boethiah's, Flawless Conqueror.

FearlessOne_2014 · February 2018

jaschacasadiob16_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, you should avoid anyone who LF people based on CP. Being 690 only means you have those champions points to spend. It does not even guarantee you spend them wisely. No clues about gear, knowledge, brain, rotations.

People should start being a little less selfish. If I know I am not ready for some content I don't go, wasting everyone's time. But we all know that most ppl dont give a damn about others. You can see that in the zone chats.

You wanna find good people? Check titles or skins.
Vet trials, Boethiah's, Flawless Conqueror.

This is pretty much what would happened.