how much more must the core game suffer because of CP?

Juju_beans · February 2018

Well hybrids by default are "Jack of all trades but master of none".
You should play a hybrid knowing they will not be chart toppers.

And hybrids should not be "Jack of all trades, master of all trades too".

CP/gear/skills are just fine for hybrids.

zaria · February 2018

agegarton wrote: »

I don’t want to see CP abolished and I suspect that those who have been vocal on this thread do NOT speak for the majority of the ESO community. I run four accounts, am in and run several guilds, and I’m pretty social online - I don’t know a single person who wants CPs gone from the game.

The only change I would make is to allow CPs to accrue from Level 1 in parallel with Skill Points and Attribute Points. That would help new players to get into the game and “catch up” to veteran players, and it would address some of the issues associated with rolling a new alt (spending a lot of time in the levelling process that does not contribute to your CP total).

This, CP is not very strong, read on forum that difference between cp 160 and 690 is +25% dps, 500-690 is 5%.
Below cp160 don't count an cp150 is unlikely to have decent gear,
Yes you also get better resistance, this is nice in harder dungeons and critical in PvP.

Low cp pvp players has an reason to complain, but the non cp campain is nice, I use it myself at cp690 as average skill level is closer to mine

aeowulf · February 2018

I think champion points should be renamed to Character Points and their effect removed from items. Items should not scale from character stats either, but they should enhance those stats. Will reduce the load on servers a ton, and i think they need it

However, items should probably also do things like give you +5 cp in shadow ward, kinda thing.

Katahdin · February 2018

Seems like some are suggesting constantly rising gear caps would be better

No, no and no

Having to constantly chase gear on a gear treadmill is not compelling gameplay.

I havent finished getting all my characters gear finalized as it is. No way am I going to regrind gear for 13 characters every 6 months

CP system isn't killing the game.
Constant whining by entitled crybabies is killing the game

Hurbster · February 2018

I like the game the way it is, cp-wise.

Asardes · February 2018

Past 300 or so it becomes really irrelevant. Your stats will cap there only gain 4-5% more damage and mitigation. And you'll be at 300 in a couple of months nowadays, just playing the game, since experience has been so much buffed compared to how little you got when I started playing. I remember hitting VR1 after about 2 months playing, then it took me another 2 months to get to VR16, and I had about 240 CP, since dungeons were the only scaled content. Overland content was 3 or more levels under you and you got very little XP out of killing mobs or turning in quests as a result. The main problem about CP is that people worry too much about it and too little about actually learning to play the game: choosing the right gear (crafted sets + willpower/agility are only ~5% less effective than that "BiS" gear for your role), practicing rotation, understanding and learning mechanics. You see plenty of people running with full gold gear, max CP, that struggle to kill even trash mobs in dungeon because they just grinded mindlessly instead of thinking and doing the right stuff.

Getern · February 2018

Katahdin wrote: »

Seems like some are suggesting constantly rising gear caps would be better

No, no and no

Having to constantly chase gear on a gear treadmill is not compelling gameplay.

I havent finished getting all my characters gear finalized as it is. No way am I going to regrind gear for 13 characters every 6 months

CP system isn't killing the game.
Constant whining by entitled crybabies is killing the game

Well we had gear chase once and it was definitely healthy for the game, It was allowing to rebalance when things were pushed too far. Just like in 1.6. The burst was real, resistances were working wierd and nirn bug as well. They made very nice changes in 2.1 (1.7) which made game almost perfect, playable with every class at decent level. Capping CP in Orsiunium was even better. That was the balance with limited gear options so u wont push things too far.

Why do u think, that u are suppose to have 13 characters? Just why? People's mentality changes a lot, back in a day we were focusing way more on one character since more hard work were needed for each. That was good, that is how it should work. Besieds, dont tell me crap like u need 4x specimen of certain gear, cause u can reswap it between alts since meta is always the same or similar. Not even mention u do have transmutation stations now.

CP are kind of a disease for ESO. The original design, I bet made by Konkel and Sage was great. Not only u had to invest serious amount of points but u also had to split them. Unlike now, you couldnt have anything. Was that fair? Yup. What Wrobel did over 2,5 years is a crime. Cp cap was the only good thing he did. It was need tho.

KingYogi415 · February 2018

Just L2P and accept hybrids will never be meta.

Wing · February 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Well hybrids by default are "Jack of all trades but master of none".
You should play a hybrid knowing they will not be chart toppers.

And hybrids should not be "Jack of all trades, master of all trades too".

CP/gear/skills are just fine for hybrids.

the full quote is:

"jack of all trades, master of none, but better then a master of one."

I would personally like hybrids to work a bit better then they do now, but really the game has moved past them. back in the day (like 1.5 and before) when the only heals were magicka, all class skills were magicka, and shields lasted for 20 sec, etc. yeah it was pretty wanted.

now there is not tooooo much reason to want to have both, the only thing stamina does not have that magicka has is a solid large damage aoe like eye of the storm, meteor, many of the ults, etc. and the skill and build diversity (that does not mean damage or healing)

it means class skills that are the big difference between classes as everyone gets resto, destroy, 2H, dual, etc. so stamina all acts and uses relatively the same skill set regardless of class with a TINY amount of variation based on the few class skills they use for utility or that have stam morphs.

magicka on the other hand has full use off all class skills as well as staves. so the visual and playstyle difference from class to class is FAR more different when compared to stamina.

stamina sorc and DK play fairly close and use many of the same skills and nearly an identical style, magicka sorc and DK play COMPLETELY different and use totally different skills and different play styles as well as looking visually vary distinct from one another.

Wing · February 2018

updated thread OP based on feedback, thanks all ^_^

Waffennacht · February 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I’ve played my fair share of MMOs where character progression stops at max level, and becomes tied solely to gear progression. I wasn’t a fan of that. It’s just a sneaky way to funnel players into specific content types, like raiding.

I like the continuous character progression from CPs. I think it adds more to theory crafting. Not less. It equates to more numbers to work with and opens more opportunities for hybrid builds by filling in the gaps left by the weapon/resource system.

I’d rather not see the game get dumbed down by removing the CP system.

CP is the worst enemy of the hybrid builds. If the damage increase nodes werent separated in Physical/Magickal....

That is straight forward incorrect. If CP's are the worst enemie of hybrid builds why then hybrid builds in non CP campaigns are not existing ? Actually diminishing returns present in CP's system is something that should help hybrid idea.

The real enemies of hybrid builds and the reasons why we dont have hybrids are the way how damage , shields and heals are scaling and lack of soft caps on statistics values. That makes pointless to split between magicka and stamina connected statistics over investing into one group.

Why did you necro this? Why do people necro this?

And usually a responding to a question or comment over a year old

Anotherone773 · February 2018

Many of the arguments i see against going to a meaningful progression system is " OH but the grind! I dont want to grind gear and levels! No thanks, id rather just run around and never progress." Basically your saying you dont want ZOS to raise the bar because then you might actually have to make some effort to reach it.

Also things are only a grind, if you make them into one. " I must grind xp" " i must grind CP" " I must grind undaunted" " I must grind..." No you must not, you CHOOSE to grind. Just like you choose to repeat the same dailies on 10 toons every day. YOU turn it into a grind by choice.

Personally, i learned grinding is pointless and takes all the fun out of the game. Ill get there when i get i get there. People need a little more self control, if grinding stuff bothers them. At the same time having no progression in a game is pointless.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

There shouldn’t be a CP system as it is because “they said” Var would be removed. That’s problem #1 per ZOS and we are feeling it still

Part 2 is they never worked on the Champion System once they decided VR was too intertwined to be removed.

Been an issue since closed beta but now worse.

NewBlacksmurf · February 2018

srfrogg23 wrote: »

I’ve played my fair share of MMOs where character progression stops at max level, and becomes tied solely to gear progression. I wasn’t a fan of that. It’s just a sneaky way to funnel players into specific content types, like raiding.

I like the continuous character progression from CPs. I think it adds more to theory crafting. Not less. It equates to more numbers to work with and opens more opportunities for hybrid builds by filling in the gaps left by the weapon/resource system.

I’d rather not see the game get dumbed down by removing the CP system.

But that’s exactly what this is.....????

Wing · February 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

Why did you necro this? Why do people necro this?

And usually a responding to a question or comment over a year old

I don't think its really necro-ing to continue a relevant thread or discussion over the course of a few months. (nowhere near over a year)

plus when you make a new thread people yell at you to use the search function or spam dead horse gifs.

plus when you make a new thread. . .*legally I'm not allowed to say if ZOS may or may not ban you for spamming*. . .so ill just say its better to keep updating a singular topic.

idk · February 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

I'm glad someone has resurected this discussion. CP is still killing the game. Nerfs to block when the points into Shadow Ward still remain. Nerfs to gap closers when damage boosts from CP still remain.

Odd how neither your post here nor the OP of this thread explain how CP is killing the game. Considering what seems to be an extremely small group that thinks so it make sense they cannot actually provide rational to their opinion.

Heck, even what OP did state, it was incorrect. One example, it is clear recovery was not getting out of hand due to CP as OP claimed. If that was the case why was it left in the CP tree and why was every skill that offered a return of stats, except one, nerfed hard.

It really seems OP is merely complaining as it is irrelevant where a nerf or adjustment occurs. He just blames CP because it is an easy target regardless of logic.

Lynx7386 · February 2018

how much more must pve suffer because of pvp

Vermintide · February 2018

CP is not killing the game. The way CP works, however, can certainly be considered a flaw. It's too easy to smooth over the edges of an otherwise flawed build- CP should be there to refine and improve a character, not plug the gaps and cover up the weaknesses.

You can min/max it, sure, but the benefits are minimal when you hit diminishing returns and find yourself with a hundred spare points that you may as well just dump into something you'd otherwise ignore. This becomes especially apparent in PVP. There's a lot of builds out there in CP that would utterly fail in no-CP, because they'd have zero penetration, or be left entirely missing one resource, or have way too little regen.

In one way, it allows more diversity, but then, you have to ask- Why is that achieved through CP, which only starts at level 50? Why isn't that diversity available from the word go? It's refreshing for an MMO to let you directly customise so many stats like that, rather than funnelling you down a set path. But I guess what I am getting at is this- What is the actual point of level 1-50 (and to an extent, CP1-160), if your only real progression starts at the gear cap?