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Powerlash & Searing Strike 3.3.3

  • Qbiken
    Qbiken
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    Passifest wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    @DDuke

    In all honesty, I haven't been on PTS in a week and I haven't had much time to play ESO in the past few weeks. I admitted I was wrong about the animation causing the heal to miss, but it is something a few players and I experienced in last weeks PTS. I believe their was a forum written about it 2 weeks ago, I'm sure Veg would know more if he made his way to this forum. From looking at your video your statement seems true from this weeks PTS, but a lot of things on this weeks PTS are broken by many reports such as CC's, ultis, and various other abilities. Don't be so quick to say others are noobs or don't know what they are talking about. Some bugs are difficult to replicate and can happen for a variety of reasons. But please keep the forum constructive, and like I said people don't appreciate toxcity.

    You are yet to acknowledge my point on the powerlash cooldown so I will take as you agree with me on it.

    Here's what your friend Veg wrote after I tested the Power Lash heal in previous week's PTS update:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4820245#Comment_4820245


    If you want to keep this constructive, listen to what others say. Especially people who spend time on the PTS testing things.

    I'm not here to spread misinformation, I'm not here to "get DK nerfed", hell, I'm most likely going to play a stam DK with Flame Lash/Power Lash slotted next patch since it's the most promising new build I've got on PTS.


    There is absolutely nothing wrong with Flame Lash on PTS (yes, I actually even like the 4s heal part & hope it stays, because it gives mDK a chance vs Troll King+Heavy Armor bleed builds & pet sorcs in 1v1).


    If you want to look at skills that could use buffs on mDK, then look at Ash Cloud etc. You know, actual weak/weak'ish skills that could use help. Flame Lash/Power Lash is not one of those weak skills, not on Live and even less so on PTS.


    As to your point regarding the cooldown affecting fights vs multiple opponents, the cooldown is actually over long before you get to Power Lash the second person (atleast in 1vX).

    You fossilize one opponent, Flame Lash->Power Lash, then let's say you have to switch targets - now you have to Fossilize->Flame Lash the 2nd opponent to set him Off Balance and the cooldown is over already.

    The only exception would be Lightning Staff meme builds where you can have multiple opponents Off Balance at the same time from one WoE.

    You keep calling lightning staff builds meme builds... why is that? They're fairly balanced imo as they are *** vs shields(due to concussion not working on shield users) but good vs melee users and I think it is a shame that build diversity is going down with this patch.

    Lightning staff builds on magDK was a nische setup after Morrowind was released since some people realised it was the "only" way to sustain as a magDK in PvE
    If you complain about werewolf overperforming after Scalebreaker, you´re actually trash at the game
    Probably the worst Werewolf on PC/EU


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  • Cenom
    Cenom
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    Most people are just joining the crying train and making "discussion teams" on discord just to spam about the DK to try get some buffs without even trying it on PTS... I am looking at you, DC group that keeps at the bridge of Sejanus. A famous DK keep asking: Go say something about DK on Forum.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    Is there any change in this game that isnt considered a mDK nerf?
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    Is there any change in this game that isnt considered a mDK nerf?

    Nope.


    One could double the damage of Flame Lash/Power Lash & it'd still be a nerf to people who don't understand numbers & theorycrafting.

    ZOS can only balance things in game (well, attempt to anyway), sadly they can't fix what's broken between the chair & the keyboard.
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • Cenom
    Cenom
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    Is there any change in this game that isnt considered a mDK nerf?

    Yeah, anything that stops touching the class with the worst sustain of all 5 classes and already short and limited range of options to deal (inferior albeit) Damage in almost every capacity.


    The class hasn't even been relevant in end game ANYTHING since after Morrowind nerfed all sustain.


    And the subsequent patches that ALL hit our class specific SUSTAIN after morrowind was just straight up laughable.


    The only things viable are tanking. The stamina DD spec has nothing to do with the class itself, but the brainless rotation of heavy attack on off-balance WHICH is now nerfed so there goes your stamina Dk DD's as well


    Kudos, GREAT balance there

    You are so clueless it's sad
  • susniand
    susniand
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    How many people actually tested mag Dk on PTS? Power Lash has less cooldown than on live (3 seconds instead of 5)
    In PvP it has. And I'm looking forward to see another 15 threads of how ZOS only nerfs mag Dks if the healing from Power Lash gets fixed (sorry I meant nerfed) but I think that ZOS will release the skill in it's current state.
    DDuke wrote: »
    It has a de facto 5 second cooldown in PvP, since you can only set people off balance with Flame Lash every 5s (and it's always consumed). The cooldown is actually 7 seconds for builds that don't have space for Talons.

    Only exception to this were the lightning staff meme builds.

    Like i told you, more than once and you still refuse to take that fact into account - Powerlash can be spamed on live on few diferent ways:
    - using Shattering Rocks
    - using staves
    - utilizing Tactician cp ability
    - aoe interupt using Deep breath
    - using overwhelming surge set

    Before you say something like "noone is using Shattering rocks" please do note and keep in mind, that not everyone is using double snb or your destro/restro builds.

    Powerlash shouldnt have 3s cooldown, but I could live with 2s cooldown, so its not used every gcd, but can be at least every 2nd gcd ...

    Anyone agree?
    Edited by susniand on February 5, 2018 3:58PM
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    Cenom wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Is there any change in this game that isnt considered a mDK nerf?

    Yeah, anything that stops touching the class with the worst sustain of all 5 classes and already short and limited range of options to deal (inferior albeit) Damage in almost every capacity.


    The class hasn't even been relevant in end game ANYTHING since after Morrowind nerfed all sustain.


    And the subsequent patches that ALL hit our class specific SUSTAIN after morrowind was just straight up laughable.


    The only things viable are tanking. The stamina DD spec has nothing to do with the class itself, but the brainless rotation of heavy attack on off-balance WHICH is now nerfed so there goes your stamina Dk DD's as well


    Kudos, GREAT balance there

    You are so clueless it's sad

    I think it’s the other way around, you probably never have played magdk or stam dk.
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    I’m gettin tried it ZOS saying,” well guys this is what the pts is for” when we ask about balance changes. Then they end up saying well we look at balance changes in the next update, like wtf.
  • Xvorg
    Xvorg
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    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    Bakkagami wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Xvorg wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    DDuke wrote: »
    Was it really necessary to create thread number... 11? 12?

    Why not post in the existing ones rather than flooding the forum with these mDK threads?

    Weren’t you the one complaining that the devs wouldn’t pay attention to the previous threads because they were whiney?

    End of that subject now, please.

    Post constructive feedback to the orginal post.

    Ok.
    It is clear the combat devs want more skills to be dodgeable and blockable. With the recent changes to both of these skills, magicka dragonknights will have a much tougher time landing these skills against other players. A significant drop in sustain/healing will be very noticable against dodgeroll centric builds, passive dodge (shuffle/evasion),

    Obligatory fact check: False. There will be no negative change in sustain, in fact the opposite is true as you'll be able to use the free cost Power Lash twice as often (every 3s, rather than every 5-7s).

    Whether you actually deal damage with it or not has no bearing on sustain, only how much magicka/second you spend does (which will be less, if every 3s you use a free ability).

    Also, on PTS you still get the heal portion even if you miss with the Power Lash (tested). Not sure if this is intended.
    Also the heal duration is 4s rather than 2s (again, not sure if intended).

    Which means healing is better after these changes.

    There is no significant drop in sustain/healing, there is a significant increase.
    and stamina players with trollking who can now dodge damage they could previously heal through.

    Obligatory fact check: Half True. No medium armor build can heal through the damage done by high dmg mDK.
    Many have tried, all have failed. Damage from S&B tank DKs, different story.
    I have listed a few suggestions that could significantly improve a few dragonknight skills while keeping them balanced and stay within the combat devs vision for dodging.

    Powerlash And Searing Strike


    Powerlash:


    Give Flamelash a 50% chance to proc Powerlash by itself, and keep its ability to proc from the offbalance provided from talons and petrify.

    (Reason: A lot of Magicka Dragonknight players have said that talons easily telegraphs your powerlash and is a huge drain on your magicka pool. This change would still keep flamelash at a 3 second cooldown but would not force players to waste magicka on talons and would allow them to perform a combo that is not easily telegraphed by "talons" while still keeping the skill balanced and dodgeable)

    Right. Except Power Lash isn't "telegraphed", it's an instant cast ability. What you probably mean is that an opponent anticipates it, which means you're playing predictably.

    Instead of Talons->Flame Lash->Power Lash, try Talons->Flame Lash->Leap(catch them mid-dodge roll)->Power Lash, or use some time to refresh DoTs/buffs before using the Power Lash.


    There is absolutely no need to buff the ability further, 3s cooldown is already basically nothing (you can cast one or two skills in-between or dodge roll once before next proc is up). What it sounds like is that you want to spam Power Lash, which is exactly what the cooldown was made to prevent.
    Searing Strike:

    Give all morphs of this ability a 8 m range so that it is in line with melee ranged abilities such as flame lash and petrify.

    (Reason: 5 m is shorter than most melee ranged attacks and now that it is dodgeable it will be very difficult to land)

    I can get behind that.
    Other Skills:

    Reflective Scale (Wings)

    Give all morphs of reflective scales major expedition for 10 seconds

    (Reason: It is a very high cost ability compared to shimmering shield that also returns magicka and ulti. Dragonknights need more mobility plain and simple and with a near 4000 magicka cost ability, I think adding major expedition justified)

    I doubt Major Expedition would accomplish much. If it were that simple to "fix DK mobility", people would just run speed potions instead and have a free permanent uptime on it.

    This morph does need buffing though, as it's extremely weak compared to the other one. Perhaps it could reflect snares back at the people who cast them? :lol:

    Explain to me how else you’re suppose to get Power Lashes except the extremely telegraphy way of rooting or CCing someone as you Flame Lash them?

    I think there's a misunderstanding of the word "telegraph". Telegraph means you know when an ability is going to land (e.g. Selene bear appearing 1s before the hit lands is a "telegraph"). Root/CC isn't a telegraph for anything but Flame Lash (if target isn't Off Balance), and not even for that really because people often Fossilize->Leap too. When you actually spend that Power Lash charge is up to you (if you think opponent is going to dodge, don't).
    KaiserKnight suggested that Power Lash be able to proc outside of off-balance, keeping the 3 second cooldown still.

    Guaranteed Power Lash with off-balance, only a chance to Power Lash without off-balance. If Power Lash occurs under either of these conditions, a shared 3 second cooldown activates. Understand?

    It would help sustain because you wouldn’t be forced to use Talons (extremely costly to use often) every other instant to get burst damage on a target.

    He never said that he wants to spam Power Lash... like at all in the original post, it’s not even implied.

    Aha, gotcha. Still not a fan of that idea though, I feel like it'd dumb down the class and make gameplay less skill oriented.

    It'd be like a stamblade asking Surprise Attack to stun/off balance target even from outside of stealth.


    I for one really enjoy these conditional effects as they add depth to the gameplay.

    I see it the other why around, why would you use Talons if Power lash is dodgeable? More than a telegraph is a direct shot at your feet.

    To proc power lash you need to use talons and the way to run away from talons is dodgeroll, so after you use talons, you flame lash the enemy, he dodge rolls and then your' powerlash hit's the air.

    Then you suggest to use leap before power lash but we are talking about leap, the buggiest ulti.

    What compels you to use Power Lash right after that Flame Lash? Patience :smiley:

    In fact, if you've got Talons slotted (I don't) you can still guarantee a Power Lash lands by going Talons->Flame Lash->Fossilize->Power Lash.


    There's lots of ways around the changes coming in this update.


    How is leap the buggiest ulti btw? Just curious, it has worked just fine for me so far.

    Ok, first of all, lash is DK spammable, I'm quite sure you agree with that. Second, as any spammable in an environment full of lag, you must hit not only once, but twice to make work the skill unless you have a great PING. So controlling your lashes becomes harder as long as you get closer to the lag.

    Can you have patience in those conditions? Consider that you are not facing a bot like in PVE but a sentient being, so if any DK comes closer and talons me, I just need to block, then dodgeroll.


    Regarding the Talons->Flame Lash->Fossilize->Power Lash suggestion, don't you get CC immunity after dodgerolling from talons?

    You don't get cc immune from dodgerolling, you get root immunity. They are separate so you can hard cc after someone dodgerolls. Also, can't very well balance the game around your ping issues.

    Ping issue was an example on how some suggestions cannot be applied to all players.

    But you're right, without a ping under 150 I shouldn't be playing this. I hope ZoS is still able to refund me after these 4 years.

    so wait, you payed 60 dollars for a game... played it for 4 yrs... and want a refund? That's beyond laughable.In that case, I want a refund on my PSX.

    On Steam they refund you, anyway
    The biggest problem within this game is the lack imagination on its player base and its developers...
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  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    Is there any change in this game that isnt considered a mDK nerf?

    Yeah, anything that stops touching the class with the worst sustain of all 5 classes and already short and limited range of options to deal (inferior albeit) Damage in almost every capacity.


    The class hasn't even been relevant in end game ANYTHING since after Morrowind nerfed all sustain.


    And the subsequent patches that ALL hit our class specific SUSTAIN after morrowind was just straight up laughable.


    The only things viable are tanking. The stamina DD spec has nothing to do with the class itself, but the brainless rotation of heavy attack on off-balance WHICH is now nerfed so there goes your stamina Dk DD's as well. And also the power of the maelstrom bow was a big factor in stamina dps.


    Kudos, GREAT balance there

    And here we go with PVE again as if anyone ever said that mDK in PVE are good.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?
    Edited by pieratsos on February 5, 2018 6:10PM
  • Cenom
    Cenom
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    Cenom wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Is there any change in this game that isnt considered a mDK nerf?

    Yeah, anything that stops touching the class with the worst sustain of all 5 classes and already short and limited range of options to deal (inferior albeit) Damage in almost every capacity.


    The class hasn't even been relevant in end game ANYTHING since after Morrowind nerfed all sustain.


    And the subsequent patches that ALL hit our class specific SUSTAIN after morrowind was just straight up laughable.


    The only things viable are tanking. The stamina DD spec has nothing to do with the class itself, but the brainless rotation of heavy attack on off-balance WHICH is now nerfed so there goes your stamina Dk DD's as well


    Kudos, GREAT balance there

    You are so clueless it's sad

    I think it’s the other way around, you probably never have played magdk or stam dk.

    If you want a printscreen, It's my main character out of 13 level 50's.
    I just won't join the circle jerk.
  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    You mean like having to do 5 dodgeable light attacks to proc it? Or casting other dodgeable abilities to proc it?
    Lets just make everything ignore mechanics. "Skilled PVP"

  • Sharee
    Sharee
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    You mean like having to do 5 dodgeable light attacks to proc it? Or casting other dodgeable abilities to proc it?
    Lets just make everything ignore mechanics. "Skilled PVP"

    Actually, having to land, say, a dodgeable light attack on a feared enemy before undodgeable surprise attack became available for use sounds a lot more like skilled PvP than simply spamming a dodgeable surprise attack over and over until one lands. Don't you think.
  • CaliMade
    CaliMade
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    You mean like having to do 5 dodgeable light attacks to proc it? Or casting other dodgeable abilities to proc it?
    Lets just make everything ignore mechanics. "Skilled PVP"


    But light attacks are free tho....

    Fossilize ,talons and Flame lash cost a hell of a lot more to use.

    Youre giving up a lot more to get that power lash.
    XB1 GT- Cali Made


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    Major Mag DK Dark Elf

    lieutenant Mag/stamplar (whatever i feel like running) Redguard
  • zParallaxz
    zParallaxz
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    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    You mean like having to do 5 dodgeable light attacks to proc it? Or casting other dodgeable abilities to proc it?
    Lets just make everything ignore mechanics. "Skilled PVP"

    Actually, having to land, say, a dodgeable light attack on a feared enemy before undodgeable surprise attack became available for use sounds a lot more like skilled PvP than simply spamming a dodgeable surprise attack over and over until one lands. Don't you think.

    Also the target has to be on front of your camera angle unlike certain skills in game I.e concealed weapon, spectral bow, soul harvest incap, etc..
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    Well reasoned.

    I have made th argument that burning embers should get a range increase for a while now. Even without taking the new dodge chance into consideration, buffing embers range would allow Magic DKs to play at more of an extended melee range. That way they aren’t directly competing for a melee spot against stamina (a fight they won’t win) but might provide a bit of a DPS boost over some of the more extended ranged classes like NB and Sorc.
    Alliance/Platform: Ebonheart Pact - PC/NA - CP 1,200ish

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  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    You mean like having to do 5 dodgeable light attacks to proc it? Or casting other dodgeable abilities to proc it?
    Lets just make everything ignore mechanics. "Skilled PVP"

    Actually, having to land, say, a dodgeable light attack on a feared enemy before undodgeable surprise attack became available for use sounds a lot more like skilled PvP than simply spamming a dodgeable surprise attack over and over until one lands. Don't you think.

    Yes obviously everyone in cyro are running shuffle and 3k stam regen so they can spam roll dodge. No one is forcing you to spam flame lashes until one lands. Feel free to use fossilize or use any other source of off balance to proc power lash. I mean people in this thread claim that right now on live they are all spamming power lashes which means that they can reliably set people off balance prety much every second. So i guess it shouldnt be too hard right?

  • pieratsos
    pieratsos
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    CaliMade wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    You mean like having to do 5 dodgeable light attacks to proc it? Or casting other dodgeable abilities to proc it?
    Lets just make everything ignore mechanics. "Skilled PVP"


    But light attacks are free tho....

    Fossilize ,talons and Flame lash cost a hell of a lot more to use.

    Youre giving up a lot more to get that power lash.

    Yes light attacks are free. And power lash is also free.
  • Grabmoore
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    Derra wrote: »
    Dueling should have no place on the discussion table when talking about balance period. This is not mortal combat.

    Dueling/1v1 should have as much place in a discussion as battleground builds and cyrodiil pvp.
    Agreed with this statement. All of them should not be balance relevant at all. This and other threads highlight what PvPers achieve with their balance discussions...

    I mean, compare all the DK threads with the "Fix Templar" thread. The amount of non constructive posts in PvP threads is disturbing.

    /rant
    EU - PC - Ebonheart Pact
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  • Cenom
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    zParallaxz wrote: »
    I’m gettin tried it ZOS saying,” well guys this is what the pts is for” when we ask about balance changes. Then they end up saying well we look at balance changes in the next update, like wtf.

    Balance is not about buffing your main class.
    Get over it.
  • ak_pvp
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    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    The ones with a pre req that incentives it to be dodged, or can be completely shut down before proc, sure. Something like frags/will does not require a resource investment that can completely fail before hand. Will being light attacks, and frags proccing off any mag abilities, hits or no.

    Shall we make it so frags is effectively limited to once every CC proc, because otherwise someone can just roll/FM/mist etc to ignore its actual setup.

    Take backlash for example, it is undodgable because it relies on other attacks which ARE dodgable, lose a counter (dodge) gain a counter (lowering damage from the ability). Or shalk, it can't be blocked or dodged conventially, but it can be strafed. Or wrath pop, it can't be dodged, but requires setup, first hit and getting into exe range)

    This is going to make the sustain problem worse actually, contrary to what DDuke said. Because you now have to dump more resources into making sure it hits. I would happily give up the "extra lashes" or higher exploiter, or the dodgy stun for my ability to land.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Joy_Division
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    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    Fossilize is dodgeable? I haven't kept track of all the changes, was under the impression couldnt block or dodge this attack
    Edited by Joy_Division on February 5, 2018 10:30PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    ak_pvp wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    The ones with a pre req that incentives it to be dodged, or can be completely shut down before proc, sure. Something like frags/will does not require a resource investment that can completely fail before hand. Will being light attacks, and frags proccing off any mag abilities, hits or no.

    Right, but casting Frags/Assassin's Will requires resources (Power Lash doesn't). Also, while it might be accurate to say "Assassin's Will requires no resource investment", that does not hold true for Frags - it only procs from your magicka costing abilities. Whether you land them or not is irrelevant to the fact.
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Shall we make it so frags is effectively limited to once every CC proc, because otherwise someone can just roll/FM/mist etc to ignore its actual setup.

    Isn't that how it works on Live now, you set it up with your CC (Flame Clench/Rune Cage/Scamp stun)+other burst?
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Take backlash for example, it is undodgable because it relies on other attacks which ARE dodgable, lose a counter (dodge) gain a counter (lowering damage from the ability). Or shalk, it can't be blocked or dodged conventially, but it can be strafed. Or wrath pop, it can't be dodged, but requires setup, first hit and getting into exe range)

    Power Lash isn't "Backlash" or "Wrath" - it's Power Lash, a semi-spammable. If you want "Backlash" or "Wrath" equivalents in DK toolkit, look for FoO or Draw Essence.
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    This is going to make the sustain problem worse actually, contrary to what DDuke said. Because you now have to dump more resources into making sure it hits. I would happily give up the "extra lashes" or higher exploiter, or the dodgy stun for my ability to land.

    No you don't. Your Power Lashes cost nothing and they do not consume the Off Balance like they do on Live.

    On Live, you get a free Lash every 5-7 seconds on most of the viable builds, on PTS you get a free Lash every 3 seconds.

    It's not rocket science.


    Best part? You get those two Lashes naturally by just CC'ing the opponent on cooldown and can even refresh that 5s Off Balance duration easily if you have Talons slotted (or Tactician CP/Lightning Staff).
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • DDuke
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    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    Fossilize is dodgeable? I haven't kept track of all the changes, was under the impression couldnt block or dodge this attack

    It's not, people just like to omit inconvenient facts that ruin their whole narrative in favour of more hysteria, hyperboles & misinformation.
    Decimus (European Megaserver)
  • CaliMade
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    DDuke wrote: »
    Sharee wrote: »
    pieratsos wrote: »
    ak_pvp wrote: »
    Can we just revert powerlash please.

    If the majority of mdks want it, make it so. 5s soft CD (more with lightning/interrupts) and no permanent off balance, but a rewarding hard hitting attack that can be used efficiently in PvE and pvp.

    It can already be countered multiple ways before proc, (roll/mist/streak/purge/cloak pre flame lash when rooted or use something like FM.) So it should be undodgable.

    If they want to make something dodgeable, make chains a non projectile based GC, and with embers change it should be fine.

    Yes like all of the instant cast abilities in game. Should we make them all undodgeable too?

    Sure, as long as they can only be used on targets with a special condition, and have a prerequisite attack that itself is dodgeable.

    Fossilize is dodgeable? I haven't kept track of all the changes, was under the impression couldnt block or dodge this attack

    It's not, people just like to omit inconvenient facts that ruin their whole narrative in favour of more hysteria, hyperboles & misinformation.

    Flame lash


    Is dodgeable.

    Thats what you need to land a PL

    You dont need a fossilize to proc PL

    XB1 GT- Cali Made


    Praetorian Stam DK Redguard

    Brigadier Stam/magblade (whatever i feel like running) Redguard

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