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Countless posts about server issues, but its not top priority..
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DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Thanks for the informative discussion @DieAlteHexe
You're most welcome and thanks for having it with me. Makes a change from the yowling and posturing.
And now, I have to get 13 more fish to achieve Master Angler. If I don't get that bloody Toxic Xoach in Shadowfen really damn soon, I may lose my proverbial.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Good luck on those fish @DieAlteHexe
Getting the Master Angler title was definitely one of my biggest accomplishments in this game. In some ways it's more satisfying than beating vMA for the first time.1 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?
Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?
I would not be opposed to that.1 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »Im_MegaDeath wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?
Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?
maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?
Pretty sure that different teams are working on these. The guys who design zones or any art related stuff don't do infrastructure work. Devs are not interchangeable.
Be kind of cool if they could be though. ALL HANDS ON SERVER CODE, NOW!
I hear what you're saying and I actually made the same post in another thread. Think about it another way though, ZOS is a big development studio so they could move the artists/level designers off ESO onto another project, and they could move the architects and staff/principle engineers back onto ESO to do the heavy lifting that the current maintenance team is incapable of. Remember these are "resources" not individuals
Not easily done. With complex code like this, the folk who work on, say, "Project A" might not have any clue on how the folk who have been working on "Project B" went about things. It's just an extension of the "all devs are interchangeable". It takes a fair bit of time to come up to speed on an application of this complexity. Now, the art folk might be able to be used in that manner assuming the same tools are used in both "Project A" and "Project B".
It's just not a feasible method, with some few exceptions. Best to keep teams together due to familiarity (both in the code and each other, thus a good, working team).
Ya this is probably right. The thing is they should put resources into figuring it out. If that means hiring 10 new people to work on the servers then great. 6 new people for every platform to make sure everything is running good on a weekly basis? Sounds great. But they dont seem to be doing this. The issues persist and get worse. And im happy that sometimes we even get a "we are actively investing the lag" in a comment on a random forum post, but its not enough.. We need results and more information about whats going on. We wont get it, but that is whats right.
Zenimax online studios has zenimax and bethesda behind them. They have an mmo where soooo many people subscribe. They have the crown store where so many players spend money. Dlcs that anyone who wants to play this game seriously need to have (or have eso plus). Chapters that even eso plus members are now paying for. Idk, compared to other mmos that do maintain there servers it just seems to me that they should have more than enough resources to hire even a few people to fix this issue.
And if they dont then thats a problem. But its a zos problem that we shouldn't have to deal with. We bought it and many of us pay for a subscription. It needs to work correctly, thats whats right. And obviousley things go wrong, but a major issue like this going on for so long with such little information, and anything being fixed, is unforgivable.
Having worked for and owned a dev house (not gaming, much much much less complex), I can see this all from another POV which gives me a bit more patience than the average user.
The costs involved are stupendous when everything is taken into consideration from the servers down to the office supplies. It has to be enormous. That said pretty sure they are making a decent profit otherwise well, doors would be closed.
We don't know that they haven't already added more folk to address the problem. Again, there is a learning curve. Each project whether it be tiny or huge takes a newcomer awhile to come up to speed, not only with the code itself but the team, how things are done etc. We also don't know what relationship there is between them and their providers. "Is it our code or is it something on the hardware and its code?"
I'm of a mind that there is something to this that is problematic for them. No company in their right mind is going to just blow off a problem like this. It's their livelihood plus their sense of pride in their product and professionalism. This leads me to believe that a simple fix is not on offer and that it might, just might, have to do with things other than their code.
Most of the time people who code do their damndest to keep it working well but rarely (if ever) is there perfection. I grant there's a way to go between what is happening in Cyro and perfection.
What I'd love to see is more transparency. They're already damned so maybe that approach would help folk understand a bit better especially if it's not something that is under ZMax's direct control. It may be that due to some obscure reason they, ZMax, are having to re-do code to work with what is causing the problem. Yes, speculative on my part but I've seen just this sort of thing too many times to not give it consideration.
Let folk know, ZMax, some will understand and be more patient. Others will rant (but they already are, so no loss there).
I see what you are saying here. You seem less emotionally involved than i am and more level headed, i used to be like this. I dont know if its because of the way i play the game or how long this has been going on but back a year+ ago i would say similar things in threads.
Something like "all we want is some insight on these issues. If they tell us that they are working on it then most players are going to appreciate that and the people who dont are just jerks"....
But now after so long im burnt out. Ive just had it. And like i said, i do appreciate that little comments that gina will leave here and there saying they are looking into it, but i just think at this point that doesn't cut it anymore. Back then i would have been happy with that, in fact i have replys to gina being happy with that.. But its like we're both saying, we need more transparency here. We need updates on a regular basis on the forums and their website, we need to see they care....
But try and picture this for a moment.. Everyone has their thing in ESO. RP, crafting, trading, pvp, zerging, dueling, achievements, trials, dungeons, housing, etc. While i do many of those things, the one thing i love, have always done, and mainly want to do in this game is solo pvp. I have always played alone unless a few friends invite me sometimes. And playing alone back before morrowind i was happy even when i died. I had fun even when i died. I could say, damn i just couldnt beat those guys. Not anymore..
Now most of the time i am drained as soon as i get into pvp. We are all plagued by terrible lag and cant cast abilities correctly or bar swap or hit potions or heal when needed. For example, i stopped playing pvp for the last few weeks (becuase the lag has been really bad).. Over the last few days ive been playing again and every day RIGHT AWAY as i get into cyro its bad. Instantly its teleporting players or terrible frame rate. Dying to health desyncs etc. Back then i could be happy even when i lost and say, damn i couldnt beat them. Now literally 99% of the time i say damn if only my heal went off, if only i could bar swap, if only my pot went off, if only my ability went off, if only the game wasnt lagging so badly. Its just draining and when it happens so often, with the main thing you want to do in the game, it will really get to you. Especially when you're happy with every other aspect of the game itself.
And then to add insult to injury if i dont pvp ill go duel in one of the capitols and everyone is lagging there too. Literally almost everyone, everyday, is complaining about it. So i cant get away from it. Now all i can do is level my pc char every day and hope its better there. But from what i hear on here, not too much better. Ill leave an account that has played daily for well over 2 years. At least until its better. So ya, i dont try to go off on the devs on here, but sometimes i need to try and figure out why they ignore this so badly.1 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »Good luck on those fish @DieAlteHexe
Getting the Master Angler title was definitely one of my biggest accomplishments in this game. In some ways it's more satisfying than beating vMA for the first time.
Thank you. Since I'm not likely to ever be even near vMA, I'm sure this will be a highlight (of bloody patience!).
Now, to figure out how to get those last fish in Cyro. I swear I'm going to go in there unarmed and in my skivvies so maybe folk will see that I am not a threat. There's this one sorc who seems to have adopted me as his personal AP dispenser. LOL!!
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake1 -
di_rty✭✭✭I wholeheartedly agree with this thread. Something needs to be done. In my opinion, due to this being an issue that spans MULTIPLE YEARS, the most important thing is for ZOS to admit defeat. They haven't figured it out due to technology limitations, financial limitations or just not caring. But, it is a problem that absolutely needs addressing!
I mostly feel the pain of server latency in Cyrodiil, as I think most of us do. In general, Overland and PvE seem to be less affected. Now, by admitting defeat, I don't mean ZOS needs to give up on fixing latency. I mean that ZOS needs to try to find a new approach to fixing the latency. The easiest and most logical idea is to reduce the amount of players allowed in a Cyrodiil campaign. Immediately this brings up the issue of the campaign feeling dead due to less players. Well, a simple and logical solution would be to make the map of Cyrodiil smaller. Reduce it to the size of the inner ring of keeps. This sounds like a ton of work, but it is FEASIBLE. Something that apparently is not FEASIBLE, is fixing the current state of PvP campaigns. So, we need a new solution, however drastic it is.
I somehow foresee a member of ZOS arguing that the problems are probably due to the performance of players own PCs causing latency and FPS lag. To this comment I've come up with a challenge. Let's have an ESO Live broadcast but in a new format. Live from Cyrodiil (Vivec), 8pm EST Friday evening. I propose this ESO Live idea, because it just seems like ZOS doesn't acknowledge the issues plaguing its customers. I'm not sure whether they just don't play their own game, are in denial or just don't care. Either way, this format will help bring attention to the blatantly apparent server issues that we deal with on a daily basis.Edited by di_rty on February 5, 2018 4:24PM1 -
sylviermoone✭✭✭✭✭@Im_MegaDeath Your post is up there too
and actually the last post i read about this.. Then i thought well this is ridiculous, how many threads need to be created about this?
And then you created yet another thread.Co-GM, Angry Unicorn Traders: PC/NA
"Official" Master Merchant Tech Support
and Differently Geared AF
@sylviermoone0 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭sylviermoone wrote: »@Im_MegaDeath Your post is up there too and actually the last post i read about this.. Then i thought well this is ridiculous, how many threads need to be created about this?
And then you created yet another thread.
YEEEEEES I DID!! 0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »Im_MegaDeath wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?
Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?
maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?
Pretty sure that different teams are working on these. The guys who design zones or any art related stuff don't do infrastructure work. Devs are not interchangeable.
Be kind of cool if they could be though. ALL HANDS ON SERVER CODE, NOW!
I hear what you're saying and I actually made the same post in another thread. Think about it another way though, ZOS is a big development studio so they could move the artists/level designers off ESO onto another project, and they could move the architects and staff/principle engineers back onto ESO to do the heavy lifting that the current maintenance team is incapable of. Remember these are "resources" not individuals
Not easily done. With complex code like this, the folk who work on, say, "Project A" might not have any clue on how the folk who have been working on "Project B" went about things. It's just an extension of the "all devs are interchangeable". It takes a fair bit of time to come up to speed on an application of this complexity. Now, the art folk might be able to be used in that manner assuming the same tools are used in both "Project A" and "Project B".
It's just not a feasible method, with some few exceptions. Best to keep teams together due to familiarity (both in the code and each other, thus a good, working team).
Ya this is probably right. The thing is they should put resources into figuring it out. If that means hiring 10 new people to work on the servers then great. 6 new people for every platform to make sure everything is running good on a weekly basis? Sounds great. But they dont seem to be doing this. The issues persist and get worse. And im happy that sometimes we even get a "we are actively investing the lag" in a comment on a random forum post, but its not enough.. We need results and more information about whats going on. We wont get it, but that is whats right.
Zenimax online studios has zenimax and bethesda behind them. They have an mmo where soooo many people subscribe. They have the crown store where so many players spend money. Dlcs that anyone who wants to play this game seriously need to have (or have eso plus). Chapters that even eso plus members are now paying for. Idk, compared to other mmos that do maintain there servers it just seems to me that they should have more than enough resources to hire even a few people to fix this issue.
And if they dont then thats a problem. But its a zos problem that we shouldn't have to deal with. We bought it and many of us pay for a subscription. It needs to work correctly, thats whats right. And obviousley things go wrong, but a major issue like this going on for so long with such little information, and anything being fixed, is unforgivable.
Having worked for and owned a dev house (not gaming, much much much less complex), I can see this all from another POV which gives me a bit more patience than the average user.
The costs involved are stupendous when everything is taken into consideration from the servers down to the office supplies. It has to be enormous. That said pretty sure they are making a decent profit otherwise well, doors would be closed.
We don't know that they haven't already added more folk to address the problem. Again, there is a learning curve. Each project whether it be tiny or huge takes a newcomer awhile to come up to speed, not only with the code itself but the team, how things are done etc. We also don't know what relationship there is between them and their providers. "Is it our code or is it something on the hardware and its code?"
I'm of a mind that there is something to this that is problematic for them. No company in their right mind is going to just blow off a problem like this. It's their livelihood plus their sense of pride in their product and professionalism. This leads me to believe that a simple fix is not on offer and that it might, just might, have to do with things other than their code.
Most of the time people who code do their damndest to keep it working well but rarely (if ever) is there perfection. I grant there's a way to go between what is happening in Cyro and perfection.
What I'd love to see is more transparency. They're already damned so maybe that approach would help folk understand a bit better especially if it's not something that is under ZMax's direct control. It may be that due to some obscure reason they, ZMax, are having to re-do code to work with what is causing the problem. Yes, speculative on my part but I've seen just this sort of thing too many times to not give it consideration.
Let folk know, ZMax, some will understand and be more patient. Others will rant (but they already are, so no loss there).
I see what you are saying here. You seem less emotionally involved than i am and more level headed, i used to be like this. I dont know if its because of the way i play the game or how long this has been going on but back a year+ ago i would say similar things in threads.
Something like "all we want is some insight on these issues. If they tell us that they are working on it then most players are going to appreciate that and the people who dont are just jerks"....
But now after so long im burnt out. Ive just had it. And like i said, i do appreciate that little comments that gina will leave here and there saying they are looking into it, but i just think at this point that doesn't cut it anymore. Back then i would have been happy with that, in fact i have replys to gina being happy with that.. But its like we're both saying, we need more transparency here. We need updates on a regular basis on the forums and their website, we need to see they care....
But try and picture this for a moment.. Everyone has their thing in ESO. RP, crafting, trading, pvp, zerging, dueling, achievements, trials, dungeons, housing, etc. While i do many of those things, the one thing i love, have always done, and mainly want to do in this game is solo pvp. I have always played alone unless a few friends invite me sometimes. And playing alone back before morrowind i was happy even when i died. I had fun even when i died. I could say, damn i just couldnt beat those guys. Not anymore..
Now most of the time i am drained as soon as i get into pvp. We are all plagued by terrible lag and cant cast abilities correctly or bar swap or hit potions or heal when needed. For example, i stopped playing pvp for the last few weeks (becuase the lag has been really bad).. Over the last few days ive been playing again and every day RIGHT AWAY as i get into cyro its bad. Instantly its teleporting players or terrible frame rate. Dying to health desyncs etc. Back then i could be happy even when i lost and say, damn i couldnt beat them. Now literally 99% of the time i say damn if only my heal went off, if only i could bar swap, if only my pot went off, if only my ability went off, if only the game wasnt lagging so badly. Its just draining and when it happens so often, with the main thing you want to do in the game, it will really get to you. Especially when you're happy with every other aspect of the game itself.
And then to add insult to injury if i dont pvp ill go duel in one of the capitols and everyone is lagging there too. Literally almost everyone, everyday, is complaining about it. So i cant get away from it. Now all i can do is level my pc char every day and hope its better there. But from what i hear on here, not too much better. Ill leave an account that has played daily for well over 2 years. At least until its better. So ya, i dont try to go off on the devs on here, but sometimes i need to try and figure out why they ignore this so badly.
I understand, truly. It's horribly frustrating but I believe it is frustrating for both customer and developer. I choose the word "developer" intentionally as I'm pretty sure the suits aren't paying much attention to this just as I'm pretty sure the devs involved are probably chucking things at their monitors whilst the *** are admiring CS revenue. That might just be the cynic in me though.
I "evolved" the other way. I used to rant and rave and yowl over UO. Was part of the battle over there over PKs and then I migrated to EQ which had its own issues. In fact every MMO I've played (which is most of 'em aside from the ones with anything remotely anime) has had some real problems. Some still do, some got the problems solved fairly quickly, others are still working on 'em. Eventually I realised that this wasn't helping anyone; not me, not the game, no one. In fact it was giving me headaches. That's how seriously I used to take gaming. I decided to put it into perspective.
Something that puzzles me. I get no lag other than what I call"loading lag" (when you first load into a crowded area). Average pings 40-60 BUT I do not PvP. That one anchor in Alik'r though. Holy moly. Brought me to a point where all I could do was stand there and look at the pretty lights. I imagine this is similar to what those PvPing encounter and yeah, that'd be a real show stopper and render an entire portion of the game pretty much useless. Not good.
BUT here's where I differ from the TAR THE ***...I believe they have a problem that is not easily resolved. In fact it may be down to code that is in the very depths of the game that cannot easily (or even possibly) be changed. Have seen this happen before. That's my gut feeling.
Where I draw the line is with the insistence that the devs are ignoring this. I would bet that is not the case. I would bet they are trying like hell to resolve it short of a rewrite.
But hey, that's me speculating and without a lot more info, eh?
ETA: Wow, Granny got asterisked for potty mouth twice in one post. Oh dearie me. LOL!Edited by DieAlteHexe on February 5, 2018 4:37PM
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I wholeheartedly agree with this thread. Something needs to be done. In my opinion, due to this being an issue that spans MULTIPLE YEARS, the most important thing is for ZOS to admit defeat. They haven't figured it out due to technology limitations, financial limitations or just not caring. But, it is a problem that absolutely needs addressing!
I mostly feel the pain of server latency in Cyrodiil, as I think most of us do. In general, Overland and PvE seem to be less affected. Now, by admitting defeat, I don't mean ZOS needs to give up on fixing latency. I mean that ZOS needs to try to find a new approach to fixing the latency. The easiest and most logical idea is to reduce the amount of players allowed in a Cyrodiil campaign. Immediately this brings up the issue of the campaign feeling dead due to less players. Well, a simple and logical solution would be to make the map of Cyrodiil smaller. Reduce it to the size of the inner ring of keeps. This sounds like a ton of work, but it is FEASIBLE. Something that apparently is not FEASIBLE, is fixing the current state of PvP campaigns. So, we need a new solution, however drastic it is.
I somehow foresee a member of ZOS arguing that the problems are probably due to the performance of players own PCs causing latency and FPS lag. To this comment I've come up with a challenge. Let's have an ESO Live broadcast but in a new format. Live from Cyrodiil (Vivec), 8pm EST Friday evening. I propose this ESO Live idea, because it just seems like ZOS doesn't acknowledge the issues plaguing its customers. I'm not sure whether they just don't play their own game, are in denial or just don't care. Either way, this format will help bring attention to the blatantly apparent server issues that we deal with on a daily basis.
lol I have tried this multiple times. It would be sooo epic if they did but hey lets make it one better. @ZOS_GinaBruno Can we get an eso live where someone at zos goes to pvp on a friday night on xbox na, pc na, and ps4 na? Hate to leave out EU but throw it in if you can guys. So ya just hop in vivec and run around cyrodil.
But on a serious note this is a huge problem.. You will never see this, and i suspect that most of the devs dont even play the game. And if they do i would stake my left hand that none of them play on console regularly. Prove me wrong please. But ya we will never see this because it would look so bad.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I wholeheartedly agree with this thread. Something needs to be done. In my opinion, due to this being an issue that spans MULTIPLE YEARS, the most important thing is for ZOS to admit defeat. They haven't figured it out due to technology limitations, financial limitations or just not caring. But, it is a problem that absolutely needs addressing!
I mostly feel the pain of server latency in Cyrodiil, as I think most of us do. In general, Overland and PvE seem to be less affected. Now, by admitting defeat, I don't mean ZOS needs to give up on fixing latency. I mean that ZOS needs to try to find a new approach to fixing the latency. The easiest and most logical idea is to reduce the amount of players allowed in a Cyrodiil campaign. Immediately this brings up the issue of the campaign feeling dead due to less players. Well, a simple and logical solution would be to make the map of Cyrodiil smaller. Reduce it to the size of the inner ring of keeps. This sounds like a ton of work, but it is FEASIBLE. Something that apparently is not FEASIBLE, is fixing the current state of PvP campaigns. So, we need a new solution, however drastic it is.
I somehow foresee a member of ZOS arguing that the problems are probably due to the performance of players own PCs causing latency and FPS lag. To this comment I've come up with a challenge. Let's have an ESO Live broadcast but in a new format. Live from Cyrodiil (Vivec), 8pm EST Friday evening. I propose this ESO Live idea, because it just seems like ZOS doesn't acknowledge the issues plaguing its customers. I'm not sure whether they just don't play their own game, are in denial or just don't care. Either way, this format will help bring attention to the blatantly apparent server issues that we deal with on a daily basis.
lol I have tried this multiple times. It would be sooo epic if they did but hey lets make it one better. @ZOS_GinaBruno Can we get an eso live where someone at zos goes to pvp on a friday night on xbox na, pc na, and ps4 na? Hate to leave out EU but throw it in if you can guys. So ya just hop in vivec and run around cyrodil.
But on a serious note this is a huge problem.. You will never see this, and i suspect that most of the devs dont even play the game. And if they do i would stake my left hand that none of them play on console regularly. Prove me wrong please. But ya we will never see this because it would look so bad.
Oh man this would be great.
I've always said that I would love to have a ZoS employee sit next to me one day while i play for a few hours on xbox NA just to see what I see and experience in terms of bugs and issues. They'd be blown away.0 -
Apache_Kid✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Good luck on those fish @DieAlteHexe
Getting the Master Angler title was definitely one of my biggest accomplishments in this game. In some ways it's more satisfying than beating vMA for the first time.
Thank you. Since I'm not likely to ever be even near vMA, I'm sure this will be a highlight (of bloody patience!).
Now, to figure out how to get those last fish in Cyro. I swear I'm going to go in there unarmed and in my skivvies so maybe folk will see that I am not a threat. There's this one sorc who seems to have adopted me as his personal AP dispenser. LOL!!
If you're on Xbox NA let me know I'll come help you fish. I fish all the time for roe and I like to help others get their title.0 -
billp_ESO✭✭✭✭The problem is likely deep in the engine code, and ZOS might not even be able to work on that anyway.
Even if they could, and invested a ton to re-write the engine, it would inject a massive amount of instability.
And the bottom line: how much more money would they earn if they did invest a ton in the new engine?
ZOS has probably made the decision that it isn't worth it; they need to milk the product now and make maximum profits, not invest a ton of money on a questionable effort to improve the engine.
The return-on-investment for new cash shop items is much much higher.
And of course, they can't come out and say all this.2 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Apache_Kid wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »Apache_Kid wrote: »Good luck on those fish @DieAlteHexe
Getting the Master Angler title was definitely one of my biggest accomplishments in this game. In some ways it's more satisfying than beating vMA for the first time.
Thank you. Since I'm not likely to ever be even near vMA, I'm sure this will be a highlight (of bloody patience!).
Now, to figure out how to get those last fish in Cyro. I swear I'm going to go in there unarmed and in my skivvies so maybe folk will see that I am not a threat. There's this one sorc who seems to have adopted me as his personal AP dispenser. LOL!!
If you're on Xbox NA let me know I'll come help you fish. I fish all the time for roe and I like to help others get their title.
Aww that's kind of you. I'm over in the EU though. I just got another roe bringing me to a whopping 13 out of over 2k fish that I kept (nevermind the ones I sold). Maybe just a tiny increase in that drop?
And once again, Shadowfen thumbs its nose at me. I think I'll go be an AP dispenser for bit.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »Im_MegaDeath wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?
Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?
maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?
Pretty sure that different teams are working on these. The guys who design zones or any art related stuff don't do infrastructure work. Devs are not interchangeable.
Be kind of cool if they could be though. ALL HANDS ON SERVER CODE, NOW!
I hear what you're saying and I actually made the same post in another thread. Think about it another way though, ZOS is a big development studio so they could move the artists/level designers off ESO onto another project, and they could move the architects and staff/principle engineers back onto ESO to do the heavy lifting that the current maintenance team is incapable of. Remember these are "resources" not individuals
Not easily done. With complex code like this, the folk who work on, say, "Project A" might not have any clue on how the folk who have been working on "Project B" went about things. It's just an extension of the "all devs are interchangeable". It takes a fair bit of time to come up to speed on an application of this complexity. Now, the art folk might be able to be used in that manner assuming the same tools are used in both "Project A" and "Project B".
It's just not a feasible method, with some few exceptions. Best to keep teams together due to familiarity (both in the code and each other, thus a good, working team).
Ya this is probably right. The thing is they should put resources into figuring it out. If that means hiring 10 new people to work on the servers then great. 6 new people for every platform to make sure everything is running good on a weekly basis? Sounds great. But they dont seem to be doing this. The issues persist and get worse. And im happy that sometimes we even get a "we are actively investing the lag" in a comment on a random forum post, but its not enough.. We need results and more information about whats going on. We wont get it, but that is whats right.
Zenimax online studios has zenimax and bethesda behind them. They have an mmo where soooo many people subscribe. They have the crown store where so many players spend money. Dlcs that anyone who wants to play this game seriously need to have (or have eso plus). Chapters that even eso plus members are now paying for. Idk, compared to other mmos that do maintain there servers it just seems to me that they should have more than enough resources to hire even a few people to fix this issue.
And if they dont then thats a problem. But its a zos problem that we shouldn't have to deal with. We bought it and many of us pay for a subscription. It needs to work correctly, thats whats right. And obviousley things go wrong, but a major issue like this going on for so long with such little information, and anything being fixed, is unforgivable.
Having worked for and owned a dev house (not gaming, much much much less complex), I can see this all from another POV which gives me a bit more patience than the average user.
The costs involved are stupendous when everything is taken into consideration from the servers down to the office supplies. It has to be enormous. That said pretty sure they are making a decent profit otherwise well, doors would be closed.
We don't know that they haven't already added more folk to address the problem. Again, there is a learning curve. Each project whether it be tiny or huge takes a newcomer awhile to come up to speed, not only with the code itself but the team, how things are done etc. We also don't know what relationship there is between them and their providers. "Is it our code or is it something on the hardware and its code?"
I'm of a mind that there is something to this that is problematic for them. No company in their right mind is going to just blow off a problem like this. It's their livelihood plus their sense of pride in their product and professionalism. This leads me to believe that a simple fix is not on offer and that it might, just might, have to do with things other than their code.
Most of the time people who code do their damndest to keep it working well but rarely (if ever) is there perfection. I grant there's a way to go between what is happening in Cyro and perfection.
What I'd love to see is more transparency. They're already damned so maybe that approach would help folk understand a bit better especially if it's not something that is under ZMax's direct control. It may be that due to some obscure reason they, ZMax, are having to re-do code to work with what is causing the problem. Yes, speculative on my part but I've seen just this sort of thing too many times to not give it consideration.
Let folk know, ZMax, some will understand and be more patient. Others will rant (but they already are, so no loss there).
I see what you are saying here. You seem less emotionally involved than i am and more level headed, i used to be like this. I dont know if its because of the way i play the game or how long this has been going on but back a year+ ago i would say similar things in threads.
Something like "all we want is some insight on these issues. If they tell us that they are working on it then most players are going to appreciate that and the people who dont are just jerks"....
But now after so long im burnt out. Ive just had it. And like i said, i do appreciate that little comments that gina will leave here and there saying they are looking into it, but i just think at this point that doesn't cut it anymore. Back then i would have been happy with that, in fact i have replys to gina being happy with that.. But its like we're both saying, we need more transparency here. We need updates on a regular basis on the forums and their website, we need to see they care....
But try and picture this for a moment.. Everyone has their thing in ESO. RP, crafting, trading, pvp, zerging, dueling, achievements, trials, dungeons, housing, etc. While i do many of those things, the one thing i love, have always done, and mainly want to do in this game is solo pvp. I have always played alone unless a few friends invite me sometimes. And playing alone back before morrowind i was happy even when i died. I had fun even when i died. I could say, damn i just couldnt beat those guys. Not anymore..
Now most of the time i am drained as soon as i get into pvp. We are all plagued by terrible lag and cant cast abilities correctly or bar swap or hit potions or heal when needed. For example, i stopped playing pvp for the last few weeks (becuase the lag has been really bad).. Over the last few days ive been playing again and every day RIGHT AWAY as i get into cyro its bad. Instantly its teleporting players or terrible frame rate. Dying to health desyncs etc. Back then i could be happy even when i lost and say, damn i couldnt beat them. Now literally 99% of the time i say damn if only my heal went off, if only i could bar swap, if only my pot went off, if only my ability went off, if only the game wasnt lagging so badly. Its just draining and when it happens so often, with the main thing you want to do in the game, it will really get to you. Especially when you're happy with every other aspect of the game itself.
And then to add insult to injury if i dont pvp ill go duel in one of the capitols and everyone is lagging there too. Literally almost everyone, everyday, is complaining about it. So i cant get away from it. Now all i can do is level my pc char every day and hope its better there. But from what i hear on here, not too much better. Ill leave an account that has played daily for well over 2 years. At least until its better. So ya, i dont try to go off on the devs on here, but sometimes i need to try and figure out why they ignore this so badly.
I understand, truly. It's horribly frustrating but I believe it is frustrating for both customer and developer. I choose the word "developer" intentionally as I'm pretty sure the suits aren't paying much attention to this just as I'm pretty sure the devs involved are probably chucking things at their monitors whilst the *** are admiring CS revenue. That might just be the cynic in me though.
I "evolved" the other way. I used to rant and rave and yowl over UO. Was part of the battle over there over PKs and then I migrated to EQ which had its own issues. In fact every MMO I've played (which is most of 'em aside from the ones with anything remotely anime) has had some real problems. Some still do, some got the problems solved fairly quickly, others are still working on 'em. Eventually I realised that this wasn't helping anyone; not me, not the game, no one. In fact it was giving me headaches. That's how seriously I used to take gaming. I decided to put it into perspective.
Something that puzzles me. I get no lag other than what I call"loading lag" (when you first load into a crowded area). Average pings 40-60 BUT I do not PvP. That one anchor in Alik'r though. Holy moly. Brought me to a point where all I could do was stand there and look at the pretty lights. I imagine this is similar to what those PvPing encounter and yeah, that'd be a real show stopper and render an entire portion of the game pretty much useless. Not good.
BUT here's where I differ from the TAR THE ***...I believe they have a problem that is not easily resolved. In fact it may be down to code that is in the very depths of the game that cannot easily (or even possibly) be changed. Have seen this happen before. That's my gut feeling.
Where I draw the line is with the insistence that the devs are ignoring this. I would bet that is not the case. I would bet they are trying like hell to resolve it short of a rewrite.
But hey, that's me speculating and without a lot more info, eh?
ETA: Wow, Granny got asterisked for potty mouth twice in one post. Oh dearie me. LOL!
Ya to be honest i envy players like you because if you want to "competitive pvp" its really been a nightmare for a long time now. And i have an achievement char with like 800 furnishing recipes known, almost every motif and food recipe in game.. I have multiple houses, ever trophy and all busts besides 3 from trials.. I like that aspect of the game. I have a lot of fun hunting furnishings i dont have, crafting, helping newer players, and flipping items on the traders. There was a time where i would pvp for a 3-4 weeks and then take a week to do those things. Quest, farm etc.. But now i feel like im forced out of pvp and that literally drains any desire to do anything at all sadly. I dont like feeling forced to do things.
But ya this is speculation. And i get your opinion but from my point of view there is only 3 reasons to this whole thing. They either cant fix it so they ignore it, or they are being stopped by higher ups from putting in the resources to fix it so they ignore it, or they are actually working on it but are a company that has zero transparency when it comes to letting us know about things like this. When an issue persists and gets worse for years thats not good. I hope its that they are fixing it but are just not transparent, i hope.
And ya ive played a lot of mmos too. Ive seen many issues. I agree with some of what you are saying but i think some companies are just better with the community and transparency than others. OsRs is good at this. BDO seems to be good at this. Wow as well, but i havent played enough to know for sure, just what i've seen.
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eso_lags✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Then when i see something like this i think WOW THIS IS AWESOME. And then i think oh wait, WHAT?? this is what they're focusing on while we are going through this? Remember those suggestions about hiring people to check out the game on each platform, on a regular basis???
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/393408/hey-you-do-you-like-trials-want-to-work-hereEdited by eso_lags on February 5, 2018 4:56PM0 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭VaranisArano wrote: »What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?
Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?
That works0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »DieAlteHexe wrote: »Im_MegaDeath wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »What exactly do you think top priority for server issues would look like?
Turning off the game until they've completely upgraded the servers and redone their coding?
maybe postpone DLC to work on in game issues?
Pretty sure that different teams are working on these. The guys who design zones or any art related stuff don't do infrastructure work. Devs are not interchangeable.
Be kind of cool if they could be though. ALL HANDS ON SERVER CODE, NOW!
I hear what you're saying and I actually made the same post in another thread. Think about it another way though, ZOS is a big development studio so they could move the artists/level designers off ESO onto another project, and they could move the architects and staff/principle engineers back onto ESO to do the heavy lifting that the current maintenance team is incapable of. Remember these are "resources" not individuals
Not easily done. With complex code like this, the folk who work on, say, "Project A" might not have any clue on how the folk who have been working on "Project B" went about things. It's just an extension of the "all devs are interchangeable". It takes a fair bit of time to come up to speed on an application of this complexity. Now, the art folk might be able to be used in that manner assuming the same tools are used in both "Project A" and "Project B".
It's just not a feasible method, with some few exceptions. Best to keep teams together due to familiarity (both in the code and each other, thus a good, working team).
Ya this is probably right. The thing is they should put resources into figuring it out. If that means hiring 10 new people to work on the servers then great. 6 new people for every platform to make sure everything is running good on a weekly basis? Sounds great. But they dont seem to be doing this. The issues persist and get worse. And im happy that sometimes we even get a "we are actively investing the lag" in a comment on a random forum post, but its not enough.. We need results and more information about whats going on. We wont get it, but that is whats right.
Zenimax online studios has zenimax and bethesda behind them. They have an mmo where soooo many people subscribe. They have the crown store where so many players spend money. Dlcs that anyone who wants to play this game seriously need to have (or have eso plus). Chapters that even eso plus members are now paying for. Idk, compared to other mmos that do maintain there servers it just seems to me that they should have more than enough resources to hire even a few people to fix this issue.
And if they dont then thats a problem. But its a zos problem that we shouldn't have to deal with. We bought it and many of us pay for a subscription. It needs to work correctly, thats whats right. And obviousley things go wrong, but a major issue like this going on for so long with such little information, and anything being fixed, is unforgivable.
Having worked for and owned a dev house (not gaming, much much much less complex), I can see this all from another POV which gives me a bit more patience than the average user.
The costs involved are stupendous when everything is taken into consideration from the servers down to the office supplies. It has to be enormous. That said pretty sure they are making a decent profit otherwise well, doors would be closed.
We don't know that they haven't already added more folk to address the problem. Again, there is a learning curve. Each project whether it be tiny or huge takes a newcomer awhile to come up to speed, not only with the code itself but the team, how things are done etc. We also don't know what relationship there is between them and their providers. "Is it our code or is it something on the hardware and its code?"
I'm of a mind that there is something to this that is problematic for them. No company in their right mind is going to just blow off a problem like this. It's their livelihood plus their sense of pride in their product and professionalism. This leads me to believe that a simple fix is not on offer and that it might, just might, have to do with things other than their code.
Most of the time people who code do their damndest to keep it working well but rarely (if ever) is there perfection. I grant there's a way to go between what is happening in Cyro and perfection.
What I'd love to see is more transparency. They're already damned so maybe that approach would help folk understand a bit better especially if it's not something that is under ZMax's direct control. It may be that due to some obscure reason they, ZMax, are having to re-do code to work with what is causing the problem. Yes, speculative on my part but I've seen just this sort of thing too many times to not give it consideration.
Let folk know, ZMax, some will understand and be more patient. Others will rant (but they already are, so no loss there).
I see what you are saying here. You seem less emotionally involved than i am and more level headed, i used to be like this. I dont know if its because of the way i play the game or how long this has been going on but back a year+ ago i would say similar things in threads.
Something like "all we want is some insight on these issues. If they tell us that they are working on it then most players are going to appreciate that and the people who dont are just jerks"....
But now after so long im burnt out. Ive just had it. And like i said, i do appreciate that little comments that gina will leave here and there saying they are looking into it, but i just think at this point that doesn't cut it anymore. Back then i would have been happy with that, in fact i have replys to gina being happy with that.. But its like we're both saying, we need more transparency here. We need updates on a regular basis on the forums and their website, we need to see they care....
But try and picture this for a moment.. Everyone has their thing in ESO. RP, crafting, trading, pvp, zerging, dueling, achievements, trials, dungeons, housing, etc. While i do many of those things, the one thing i love, have always done, and mainly want to do in this game is solo pvp. I have always played alone unless a few friends invite me sometimes. And playing alone back before morrowind i was happy even when i died. I had fun even when i died. I could say, damn i just couldnt beat those guys. Not anymore..
Now most of the time i am drained as soon as i get into pvp. We are all plagued by terrible lag and cant cast abilities correctly or bar swap or hit potions or heal when needed. For example, i stopped playing pvp for the last few weeks (becuase the lag has been really bad).. Over the last few days ive been playing again and every day RIGHT AWAY as i get into cyro its bad. Instantly its teleporting players or terrible frame rate. Dying to health desyncs etc. Back then i could be happy even when i lost and say, damn i couldnt beat them. Now literally 99% of the time i say damn if only my heal went off, if only i could bar swap, if only my pot went off, if only my ability went off, if only the game wasnt lagging so badly. Its just draining and when it happens so often, with the main thing you want to do in the game, it will really get to you. Especially when you're happy with every other aspect of the game itself.
And then to add insult to injury if i dont pvp ill go duel in one of the capitols and everyone is lagging there too. Literally almost everyone, everyday, is complaining about it. So i cant get away from it. Now all i can do is level my pc char every day and hope its better there. But from what i hear on here, not too much better. Ill leave an account that has played daily for well over 2 years. At least until its better. So ya, i dont try to go off on the devs on here, but sometimes i need to try and figure out why they ignore this so badly.
I understand, truly. It's horribly frustrating but I believe it is frustrating for both customer and developer. I choose the word "developer" intentionally as I'm pretty sure the suits aren't paying much attention to this just as I'm pretty sure the devs involved are probably chucking things at their monitors whilst the *** are admiring CS revenue. That might just be the cynic in me though.
I "evolved" the other way. I used to rant and rave and yowl over UO. Was part of the battle over there over PKs and then I migrated to EQ which had its own issues. In fact every MMO I've played (which is most of 'em aside from the ones with anything remotely anime) has had some real problems. Some still do, some got the problems solved fairly quickly, others are still working on 'em. Eventually I realised that this wasn't helping anyone; not me, not the game, no one. In fact it was giving me headaches. That's how seriously I used to take gaming. I decided to put it into perspective.
Something that puzzles me. I get no lag other than what I call"loading lag" (when you first load into a crowded area). Average pings 40-60 BUT I do not PvP. That one anchor in Alik'r though. Holy moly. Brought me to a point where all I could do was stand there and look at the pretty lights. I imagine this is similar to what those PvPing encounter and yeah, that'd be a real show stopper and render an entire portion of the game pretty much useless. Not good.
BUT here's where I differ from the TAR THE ***...I believe they have a problem that is not easily resolved. In fact it may be down to code that is in the very depths of the game that cannot easily (or even possibly) be changed. Have seen this happen before. That's my gut feeling.
Where I draw the line is with the insistence that the devs are ignoring this. I would bet that is not the case. I would bet they are trying like hell to resolve it short of a rewrite.
But hey, that's me speculating and without a lot more info, eh?
ETA: Wow, Granny got asterisked for potty mouth twice in one post. Oh dearie me. LOL!
Ya to be honest i envy players like you because if you want to "competitive pvp" its really been a nightmare for a long time now. And i have an achievement char with like 800 furnishing recipes known, almost every motif and food recipe in game.. I have multiple houses, ever trophy and all busts besides 3 from trials.. I like that aspect of the game. I have a lot of fun hunting furnishings i dont have, crafting, helping newer players, and flipping items on the traders. There was a time where i would pvp for a 3-4 weeks and then take a week to do those things. Quest, farm etc.. But now i feel like im forced out of pvp and that literally drains any desire to do anything at all sadly. I dont like feeling forced to do things.
But ya this is speculation. And i get your opinion but from my point of view there is only 3 reasons to this whole thing. They either cant fix it so they ignore it, or they are being stopped by higher ups from putting in the resources to fix it so they ignore it, or they are actually working on it but are a company that has zero transparency when it comes to letting us know about things like this. When an issue persists and gets worse for years thats not good. I hope its that they are fixing it but are just not transparent, i hope.
And ya ive played a lot of mmos too. Ive seen many issues. I agree with some of what you are saying but i think some companies are just better with the community and transparency than others. OsRs is good at this. BDO seems to be good at this. Wow as well, but i havent played enough to know for sure, just what i've seen.
Aye you're totally right about the difference between choosing to do/not do something and it being forced (fishing in Cyro...cough...cough).
I also agree that transparency could be increased but I wonder if that (lack) is not more of the "suit" influence. I have to chuckle over the WoW thing. Things must've changed in the years since I was there and that's good to hear.
I'm totally on board with the need to either resolve this issue (given the amount of folk it impacts) or 'fess up that it either cannot be resolved or that it can be but it will take x amount of time.
As to the "ignore" bit, another insight, heh. When I was the "face" for a company on their forums I was FORBIDDEN to do anything other than acknowledge player input (as is done here) even if the fix was on the way or there would never be a fix. I used to argue with my boss about this all the time. I even had a can of Coke chucked at me for it. LOL This doesn't mean it (an issue) is being ignored, as I've said before I don't believe that for one minute.
So often there's friction between the bosses/managers and the folks that do the actual work. Most devs have pride in their work and hate seeing it borked. So, I guess we could come to an accord if the statement were amended to "management might be ignoring this because they see a healthy bottom line". That wouldn't surprise me one iota. But I see red whenever I see the devs being blamed wholesale. Most of the time, that's just not the case.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0 -
DieAlteHexe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The problem is likely deep in the engine code, and ZOS might not even be able to work on that anyway.
Even if they could, and invested a ton to re-write the engine, it would inject a massive amount of instability.
And the bottom line: how much more money would they earn if they did invest a ton in the new engine?
ZOS has probably made the decision that it isn't worth it; they need to milk the product now and make maximum profits, not invest a ton of money on a questionable effort to improve the engine.
The return-on-investment for new cash shop items is much much higher.
And of course, they can't come out and say all this.
I've a sneaking suspicion you have the right of it. I hope not...I hope there are devs feverishly beavering away at this and other issues and that there will be a miraculous "save" and we'll all rejoice.
My inner cynic just burst out laughing at me on that...hope it's wrong.
Dirty, filthy casual aka Nancy, the Wallet Warrior Carebear Potato Whale Snowflake0