FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

Your post was a nice read, feel like you're someone I can actually properly discuss.

That is always nice to read, especially when others have loudly proclaimed the opposite when I did not agree with their pet views

FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

First, maybe instead of a "IT SHOULD HAVE A CAP" I could've been more clear that that was the first suggestion that came to my mind, which contributes to your own idea of improving and giving substance to a currently shallow and simple justice system. Things to do while you have a high bounty, perks, context. Not just "welp, you ran this town over and over killing civies, now wait for X months while the bounty you can never pay drops to 0".

But also not "yipee, there is a cap, I can do millions worth of crime on my character and then clear the bounty on the cheap..."

But while it -is- true that consequences, harsh consequences even are a must... merely making people wait an age and a half until the bounty goes down while playing other characters may not be the optimal solution, I fully agree with that.

FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

You see... I'm not complaining about my char, that's a fairly known method of getting a passive income on chars you create sorely to kill and loot, my main character is all fine on a 800hrs game time, I daily fill her bag of stolen stuff to sell. My problem is: The system is just too simple to be this harsh, maybe you din't accumulate 1.7KK bounty like in the pic, but maybe you, as a naive new player joined the killing just because you seen people doing it and later found out you were locked from cities for idk, 2-3 weeks, there's lots of ways you can polish that, many of which was suggested in this thread.

I have very little sympathy for any newbie who thinks killing sprees of innocent NPCs are "harmless fun" you just join in when you see others do it without having any inclination it might have averse consequences... Especially with the bounty counter in their screen flashing red to remind them they are doing baaaad things...

I mean, not like they can get the same killing fun by driving into the various hostile mobs, right?

And yes, I know some people make characters for the sole purpose of pickpocketing and then killing NPCs, to farm good stuff and money, then to be transferred to their lawful main. I do not see why they should have it even easier...

Still, sometimes people rack up a bounty before they fully realize what is going on (especially newbies), and as has been stated on the forums many times, there are means and ways to deal with it. More ways now that we have the thieves guild and dark brotherhood, which not only are a place to get profitable daily missions, but also often have rewards that can help a bit with the bounty situation...

FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

- Explicitly explaining in-game how the cooldown works.
- Having the "swiftly forgotten" passive function while offline.
- Like you said, having some sort of missions and stuff to do related to high bounties.
- Having a virtual cap of, like 100K gold for it to sill be harsh, but not character-breaking.
- Having ways to gain larger pardon letters.
- And so on...

Problem is, the cooldown is pretty easy to figure out, if one pays attention, and the offline waiting (or hiding in cyrodil/coldharbour while farming gold to pay your bounty) is not an fun option that ought to be supported anyhow... and a cap of 100K would be laughable considering what people can earn in endgame when they really put their minds to it and are members of a decent trading guild.

One option that struck my mind was making it a cap, but not a monetary "100K pays off all crime" one. Having a certain bounty limit (at least 500K, better 1 million), if you hit that, your bounty changes automatically from a gold value to permanent "outlaw" status - and as such does never decline, and you never ever can pay it off again - but it also never adds for any further crimes, and keeps you at a permanent "kill on sight" status... (and prime candidate for the proactive guard teams from my "Great Justice" idea coming after you)
And to get rid of your "outlaw" status you would need a super-duper-rare "royal pardon", which cannot just be bought or forged... but -must- be earned, which in turn might take a LOT of effort spread over various activities, enough to make people really, really never want to go through that again, and be very careful about their outlaw status... but is available as "final resort" for people who racked up insane bounties of an "Akk, I can never earn enough to pay off THAT with my available online time" value...

FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

I just have to hardly disagree on your "crimes have consequences, like in real world huuuuur"
It's a game, specifically, an MMO, it should be well designed to be balanced and fun, committing crimes against NPCs doesn't affect anyone in the game (apart from the poor ***... i guess), and the risk-reward thing weighs more on the "lore" and "role play" side of things more than anything, It's something to keep players from staining beautiful cities with blood and maybe ruining other people's immersion. I don't understand people going "oooh ***, that's what you get for being an ass and killing innocent people, now suffffer with that cooldown time" And I'm like: Who tha f*ck did you think I killed, your mother?

So?
Lore and roleplay crimes get lore and roleplay punishments.
Real crimes get real world punishments.

Yes, some people want games to be a consequence free space where they can act like Rocket Racoon in GoG. Others want it to be immersion central, as they see a role-playing game less as a game and more as a well-crafted story they can play through.
The truth lies somewhere in between...
There are a lot of highly immersionary features that would be detracting to the enjoyment of the game. Like your character having to spend a week on the loo from drinking that water in shadowfen, or an "itchy bugbites" debuff from resting (logging out) in the stables... like having to carry water bottles to sip from all the time, or stop mid-dungeon to collow a call of nature or having to take a nine month break after ERP on your priestess character... like getting your characters hand cut off for unskilled stealing or being able to only carry what would be reasonable instead of what your inventory can hold... like dying when slipping off that stone and falling into the lava instead of hopping out and casting some heals...

But for a justice system to have any meaning, there must be consequences for in-world crimes. If you play the criminal in action, you gotta put up with playing the criminal in reaction as well.
Anything else would not be reasonable in this setting.
It would be different if we had a "lawless" setting - but then we would also have to have world PvP, and get ganked like in imperial city whenever we went to craft a sharp stick or whatever... there are other games which go that way (I remember the Age of Conan PvP servers... -shudders-)

Obvously I don't agree that an ever increasing and automatically declining bounty is the right way (duh) - but there must be consequences to make the people -care- about the punishments instead of just ignore the law six ways to sunday because they feel it fun, and have everyone else feel vexed when they wade knee-deep through the corpses... consequences to make the people comitt their crimes in the shadows, taking care not to be found out rather then blatantly slaughter townsfolk in everyones sight...

FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

Another point is: Maybe THIS place I farm is the problem, you would never get this much bounty from another place in the game, and that's a danger to people who pass by. Might consider submitting a ticket later.

The answer is to crime smarter, not harder!
Yes, it takes more time to assassiate your marks if you wait until noone is watching. You may have to -gasp- study their habitual path, find the best way to slip a woeful blade between their ribs. And it takes -way- longer to get that "mass murderer" achievement if you do it the hard way rather then just murderdeathkill everyone in a certain lawless caravan over and over...
So what?
Its not a race...
(and yes, my main is a very criminal character at times. Earned that achievement. But never got much over a thousand gold in bounty yet at worst, because I usually do take that care...)

FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

Anyway, back to civie farming, knowing that if any poor unaware player does a fraction of it, he's screwed for more time that he realizes.

That happens. Choices, consequences.
Doing it smarter can often avoid them tho. If noone sees you backstab that civie...

And in any case, its not like the price for your crimes doesn't appear on your UI. In bright red unfriendly letters. Keeping a running total. People can stop any time they start thinking "oh, boy, this is going to get expensive..."

FilipeRamos96 wrote: »

It's always good discussing with people besides the point of "you did it, now deal with it".

I kinda agree with that "did it, deal with it" point.
I just think there should be more options as to how one -can- deal with it...
(but options annoying enough that they will never want to have to deal with it again, and start doing crime the right way - with care as to not get seen! )

Vostorn wrote: »

The shadowy supplier sometimes gives you a monk disguise that you can wear for 5 minutes. This disguise allows you to act as if you had no bounty.

Yep, problem is, they come in non-stackable "Unmarked Sacks".
Even the Masks themselves cant stack, and you cant have more than one in your inventory at a time.
Let us stack the masks, then I'll justify keeping a 200 stack of said masks in my inventory for when I want to go on a killing spree with bajillions of gold bounty.