Can We PLEASE Be Honest?

Ch4mpTW · February 2018

What is REALLY going on with ice staves? I mean seriously. What is really going on here. Who tf is really tanking content with an ice staff? And by that question, I don’t mean a public dungeon or dungeon on normal difficulty. I mean, people going into veteran dungeons and trials and handling their business with an ice staff as a tank. Where are these people at, because I’m truly curious.

We’ve had this bum-ass change regarding ice staves for a while now, and we are at the edge of Update 17 going live. But yet and still, ice staves appear to be still extremely suboptimal. Both in damage dealing and in tanking. WTF is going on here? This is what I mean by the combat devs seemingly buff, nerf, and “fix” the most random and obscure things regarding “balance”. We’ve been telling you devs that ice staves need a major upgrade for a VERY long time now, and ole’ @ZOS_Wrobel still doesn’t have any improvements to show? Really? And it’s been how many months?

Mind you, if there are some folks out there who are doing some amazing tanking or DPS with ice staves? Please speak up, and or shout some people out. If you’ve done VMoL, VHoF, or VAS with these individuals? Please speak up. Hell, not even the DLC-oriented trials. If you’ve done VSO with a solid tank of DPS using an ice staff, please let me know. Because I am truly at a loss for words regarding this situation. Tf is going on here?

Judas Helviaryn · February 2018

Give it a rest already Champ..

Jeez.

LadyNalcarya · February 2018

I really wish it was possible to play as an ice mage and still do competitive dps.
But well... I guess ZOS just doesnt like frost mages and archers.

SydneyGrey · February 2018

It just doesn't seem like there's any situation in which ice staves would be better than a sword and shield, since you can use three armor sets with S&S.

Ch4mpTW · February 2018

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Give it a rest already Champ..

Jeez.

Give what a rest? I’m just genuinely curious why 1 of 3 damage-based destruction staves are still absolutely garbage. How is it okay that magicka-based builds are still funneled in either going the inferno staff route or lightning staff route? Where as if you’re a tank, you just have 1 option (S&B). How is that fine?

Edit: Spelling adjustments.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I really wish it was possible to play as an ice mage and still do competitive dps.
But well... I guess ZOS just doesnt like frost mages and archers.

I second this.

I also agree with OP. Ice staves are in a terrible spot right now. There's no reason to slot one as a tank because I'm more effective without it and there's no reason to slot it as a DPS becsuse I'm more effective without it. Where is the incentive to use it?

Froil · February 2018

It is odd having a DESTRUCTION staff as a tanking weapon...

While I like the concept of a magical tanking weapon, an Alteration or Illusion staff would be better thematically, ice should go back to being an offensive element, as it should be.

Judas Helviaryn · February 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Give it a rest already Champ..

Jeez.

Give what a rest? I’m just genuinely curious why 1 of 3 damage-based Destruction staves are still absolutely garbag. How is it okay that magicka-based builds are still funneled in either going the inferno staff route or lightning staff route? Where as if you’re a tank, you just have 1 option (S&B). How is that fine?

I'm saying give it a rest, not because of the content of your argument, but the delivery and sheer investment you seem to have in it. Aside from the fact that frost staves are more flavor than anything, different elements have different applications and uses in combat and elsewhere. That's the argument I would have given, had your own posted content not been simply analogous to this. Especially considering your posting, (and quitting the "toxic forums"), history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8vKTFbMZM

This isn't a personal attack, but there's just too much charged emotion comin' from ya man. xD

Apache_Kid · February 2018

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Give it a rest already Champ..

Jeez.

Give what a rest? I’m just genuinely curious why 1 of 3 damage-based Destruction staves are still absolutely garbag. How is it okay that magicka-based builds are still funneled in either going the inferno staff route or lightning staff route? Where as if you’re a tank, you just have 1 option (S&B). How is that fine?

I'm saying give it a rest, not because of the content of your argument, but the delivery and sheer investment you seem to have in it. Aside from the fact that frost staves are more flavor than anything, different elements have different applications and uses in combat and elsewhere. That's the argument I would have given, had your own posted content not been simply analogous to this. Especially considering your posting, (and quitting the "toxic forums"), history.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8vKTFbMZM

This isn't a personal attack, but there's just too much charged emotion comin' from ya man. xD

You have no pashun

Ch4mpTW · February 2018

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Judas Helviaryn wrote: »

Give it a rest already Champ..

Jeez.

Give what a rest? I’m just genuinely curious why 1 of 3 damage-based Destruction staves are still absolutely garbag. How is it okay that magicka-based builds are still funneled in either going the inferno staff route or lightning staff route? Where as if you’re a tank, you just have 1 option (S&B). How is that fine?

I'm saying give it a rest, not because of the content of your argument, but the delivery and sheer investment you seem to have in it. Aside from the fact that frost staves are more flavor than anything, different elements have different applications and uses in combat and elsewhere. That's the argument I would have given, had your own posted content not been simply analogous to this.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8vKTFbMZM

This isn't a personal attack, but there's just too much charged emotion comin' from ya man. xD

Oh, I see. I apologize if I come off that way to you, as I am just a very emotional and passionate writer. I tend to put an excessive amount of “umph” behind my words, as I tend to mean them fully. Otherwise, I’d not bother using such words to begin with.

As for me viewing it as a personal attack, not at all. We’re all entitled to an opinion, and we are all allowed to perceive things however which way we choose. You’re still perfectly fine in my book, comrade. No hard feelings taken.

Solohope · February 2018

Idk about pve but they are strong in pvp

Reverb · February 2018

Solohope wrote: »

Idk about pve but they are strong in pvp

That's because the taunt components is ineffective against other players, so you're left with everything good about the frost staff as a weapon. This only proves champ's point.

The worst thing about adding a taunt to the ice staff was that the timing coincided with the sustain nerf and heavy-attack meta. If they had put the taunt on an unused skill or morph, it would still be viable as a non-tanking weapon.

Runefang · February 2018

Was anybody using frost staves before the changes anyway?

monktoasty · February 2018

I've never seen anyone use an ice staff for anything

Glurin · February 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

It just doesn't seem like there's any situation in which ice staves would be better than a sword and shield, since you can use three armor sets with S&S.

Not to mention the whole point of being a tank is basically to taunt the guy to punch you in the face a lot. Using a ranged weapon for that seems a little counter intuitive. Might work well if there's mechanics that flat out prevent any melee range interaction, but really, that would put in such a tiny niche that all it would do is force tank characters to keep an ice staff in their back pocket all the time. (Also there's the problems of melee DPS of any kind under such circumstances.)

FloppyTouch · February 2018

Solohope wrote: »

Idk about pve but they are strong in pvp

QFT

Great in pvp

Ch4mpTW · February 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Solohope wrote: »

Idk about pve but they are strong in pvp

QFT

Great in pvp

I’m guessing that it is because of the fact that you can have your magicka be drained while blocking, instead of your stamina? Or is it because of the CC it provides when using Eye of the Storm, perhaps? Maybe the root that’s applied when Destructive Touch connects? Because outside of those things, I don’t see how ice staves are remotely useful.

Anhedonie · February 2018

Please, make ice staves good for damage dealing and get over that ice staff tanking gimmick. Nobody asked for this.

Concret · February 2018

I am using an Asylum Ice staff for tanking vAS and I feel very confortable with it.
Next update, with the off balance change, i will probably Swap my Lightning staff for an Ice staff for all PvE content. Maybe not the best option, maybe you think it's useless, but I trully like it and that's the most important thing in a game !

Dapper Dinosaur · February 2018

Make ice staves count as two pieces of a set for set gear. Done. Now ice staves are viable for tanking. You're welcome ZoS. Feel free to fire Wrobel any time you want and bring me in. Took me 5 seconds to think of that.

Carbonised · February 2018

The frost staff change is a lesson in how to NOT develop your game mechanics, and unfortunately it reveals a lot about the haphazard balance changes and combat changes we see in ESO.

Wrobel said it himself in an ESO live (or was it dev's comments here on the forums, I cant recall now) that noobs had difficulties understanding how to:
1) Invest skill points in the 2 taunting skills the game offers
2) Slot said skills and actually use them

Thus, he looked around in his virtual world for a weapon that saw little to no use - and spotted the frost staff. Didn't take long from there to simply add a taunting mechanic to the frost staff attacks, and thus overcoming both the obstacles of investing skill points in taunts, and slotting them and using them.

This stupendous lack of knowledge and wisdom begs a multitude of questions, of which I will mention a few:

- Why not work on the ACTUAL problem, which apparently was obscure information to new players about how taunt skills function
- Why add a TANKING function to a DPS weapon when in ESO those two types of gameplay are strictly kept apart
- Why ruin an entire weapon type, so it is now subpar both for tanking AND for DPSing
- Who were these poor noobs that Wrobel thought needed an easier tanking functionality? Solo overlanders don't need any taunting. Is it completely unreasonable to expect that if you queue as a tank in a group dungeon, you AT LEAST have enough knowledge of the game to have invested 1 skill point in the first skill in the sword/shield skill line, and actually use it?
- Does this reveal an underlying problem with ESO, where half of the playerbase have 0 knowledge about game mechanics, thus leaving us with tanks that can't tank - or taunt - and DPS that can't even DPS?

In any case, your frustration most likely stems from trying to see reason where there is none. The frost staff taunt was a haphazard solution trying to serve a taunt on a silver platter to those people who can't even figure out - or who won't spend a minute doing some basic research into - how the taunting skills function in this game. This instead of adressing the real problem here, which is a gameplay and combat system so convoluted, obscure and inaccessible that most people just give up on it and pew pew with their bow for 1k DPS instead.

ccfeeling · February 2018

Count stave as 2 pc , woot...there will be a lot of combination comes out

Feanor · February 2018

The thing I don’t understand is that there was a prime opportunity to make the whole ice thing a really cool and new feature. There are so many people who wanted to play an ice mage (since that was never a viable setup) and hoped that Wardens would fulfill that role. They even went so far to give them a passive that increase Frost damage, albeit its not a massive increase.

But unfortunately they also decided frost staves were now to be a tanking weapon, which of course is contrary to doing DPS. If the taunt was taken off the HA and given to another skill it would be much better already although frost would still need buffs elsewhere. I just don’t get why they did it.

radiostar · February 2018

The taunt should have been a separate passive unlock.

Ep1kMalware · February 2018

@Ch4mpTW

Zos just gunna nerf tanks until ice staves are bis and there are no more trials. I think deep down, you already know this.

SantieClaws · February 2018

Honesty?

Oh dear. It is that kind of thread yes?

Well Khajiit once dated a werewolf. This one was young and full of sugar and for some reason probably had a poor sense of smell at the time. Things came to an end when this one realised she would have to choose between the wolf and having nice, non-shredded cushions.

I hope you understand travellers how difficult it was to share this.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Ch4mpTW · February 2018

radiostar wrote: »

The taunt should have been a separate passive unlock.

Why is it that a destruction staff can apply a taunt de-buff anyway? The entire concept of tanking with an ice staff just seems so... So... Bizarre. Why couldn’t it just be a form of supplying elemental damage, just like inferno and lightning staves? How do you as a game developer sit there, and decide to do something like that? It’s just weird.

LordSemaj · February 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

radiostar wrote: »

The taunt should have been a separate passive unlock.

Why is it that a destruction staff can apply a taunt de-buff anyway? The entire concept of tanking with an ice staff just seems so... So... Bizarre. Why couldn’t it just be a form of supplying elemental damage, just like inferno and lightning staves? How do you as a game developer sit there, and decide to do something like that? It’s just weird.

Stam DK: "God I love tanking with sword and shield!
Zenimax: "We're happy you like it!"
Mag Sorc: "Why do I have use fracking Undaunted skills?!"
Zenimax: "Um...."
Mag Sorc: "I want to tank with MAGIC, damnit!"

Patch 2.7.0 - Players may now tank with magic.

FloppyTouch · February 2018

SantieClaws wrote: »

Honesty?

Oh dear. It is that kind of thread yes?

Well Khajiit once dated a werewolf. This one was young and full of sugar and for some reason probably had a poor sense of smell at the time. Things came to an end when this one realised she would have to choose between the wolf and having nice, non-shredded cushions.

I hope you understand travellers how difficult it was to share this.

Yours with paws
Santie Claws

Leave it to a cat to blame a dog for their damage on furniture tsk tsk

blacksghost · February 2018

How disappointing, reading the thread tittle I was hoping to hear I’m not the only person who dislikes that so many books (vardenfel) and recipes are only acquired by breaking into houses or stealing. The promotion of character dishonesty in this game leaves much to be desired. Ice staffs? Meh.

Aisle9 · February 2018

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Solohope wrote: »

Idk about pve but they are strong in pvp

QFT

Great in pvp

I’m guessing that it is because of the fact that you can have your magicka be drained while blocking, instead of your stamina? Or is it because of the CC it provides when using Eye of the Storm, perhaps? Maybe the root that’s applied when Destructive Touch connects? Because outside of those things, I don’t see how ice staves are remotely useful.

Clench roots instead of stunning (soft CC instead of hard CC), which you can either break with shuffle/FM or rolldodge, but either way you're consuming stamina defensively.

Also, yes, the fact you can use magicka for blocking and stamina for rolling makes it pretty awesome.

In addition the Ice staff procs chilled, which applies minor maim (15% damage output reduction), one of the best mitigation in the game...

If you're zerg surfing or rolling in a ballgroup, yeah, of course you're going to use fire or lightning, but for small scale/solo the Ice staff is pretty awesome.

Hope this clarifies.