All the tedious things that have to be done when creating an alt, and 3 possible solutions

Facefister · February 2018

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

The mount training and the skyshard system is the worst of it imo. In other ways, it's one of the better games as far as alts goes (specifically coming to mind : my 400 CP dispersal with each new character)

Skyshard farming can be done in a day or two. It's tedious and annoying but doable in such a short amount of time. Mount training however, takes you atleast 150 days(assumed you train every 20 hours). All the skill lines, skyhards and other stuff I understand, also accept it, but the mount training should be account wide, since you train your mount and not yourself(as a character). Frankly, the horrendous mount speed at level 1 keeps me from making alts.

xbobx · February 2018

the main one I will agree on is the mount training There is absolutely no reason at all mount training cant be account wide. it has no real effect on endgame is just helps to take away some of the stress.

this is something they seriously need to thinking about.

Facefister · February 2018

xbobx wrote: »

the main one I will agree on is the mount training There is absolutely no reason at all mount training cant be account wide. it has no real effect on endgame is just helps to take away some of the stress.

this is something they seriously need to thinking about.

A well trained mount has a big impact on Cyrodiil though.

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

xbobx wrote: »

the main one I will agree on is the mount training There is absolutely no reason at all mount training cant be account wide. it has no real effect on endgame is just helps to take away some of the stress.

this is something they seriously need to thinking about.

After a long hiatus, I returned to the game last October to find many changes. I was bemused that you still had to train each character's horse but CP are shared.

Odd.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

The mount training and the skyshard system is the worst of it imo. In other ways, it's one of the better games as far as alts goes (specifically coming to mind : my 400 CP dispersal with each new character)

Skyshard farming can be done in a day or two. It's tedious and annoying but doable in such a short amount of time. Mount training however, takes you atleast 150 days(assumed you train every 20 hours). All the skill lines, skyhards and other stuff I understand, also accept it, but the mount training should be account wide, since you train your mount and not yourself(as a character). Frankly, the horrendous mount speed at level 1 keeps me from making alts.

I agree and also think the mount training should be account-wide. With the current in-game language, though, I think you are actually training your character and not your mount. The game calls it "riding skill."

Facefister · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

The mount training and the skyshard system is the worst of it imo. In other ways, it's one of the better games as far as alts goes (specifically coming to mind : my 400 CP dispersal with each new character)

Skyshard farming can be done in a day or two. It's tedious and annoying but doable in such a short amount of time. Mount training however, takes you atleast 150 days(assumed you train every 20 hours). All the skill lines, skyhards and other stuff I understand, also accept it, but the mount training should be account wide, since you train your mount and not yourself(as a character). Frankly, the horrendous mount speed at level 1 keeps me from making alts.

I agree and also think the mount training should be account-wide. With the current in-game language, though, I think you are actually training your character and not your mount. The game calls it "riding skill."

"Speed," "Stamina" and "Capacity" are dependant on the mount itself, not on the rider. You also see the upgrades of those on the mount.

Hempyre · February 2018

I don't mind the wayshrines, or the shards, or even the lore books. What kills me is the horse trains. 180 days is *** ridiculous. At the very least they could just let it roll over automatically like in Eve, so you don't have to login to every character every time, every day... it easily takes up half hour to 40 minutes of my game time just to log into my alts to do their horse trains, never mind doing writs...

Not fun game mechanics Zos...

DoctorESO · February 2018

Facefister wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

The mount training and the skyshard system is the worst of it imo. In other ways, it's one of the better games as far as alts goes (specifically coming to mind : my 400 CP dispersal with each new character)

Skyshard farming can be done in a day or two. It's tedious and annoying but doable in such a short amount of time. Mount training however, takes you atleast 150 days(assumed you train every 20 hours). All the skill lines, skyhards and other stuff I understand, also accept it, but the mount training should be account wide, since you train your mount and not yourself(as a character). Frankly, the horrendous mount speed at level 1 keeps me from making alts.

I agree and also think the mount training should be account-wide. With the current in-game language, though, I think you are actually training your character and not your mount. The game calls it "riding skill."

"Speed," "Stamina" and "Capacity" are dependant on the mount itself, not on the rider. You also see the upgrades of those on the mount.

Yeah, but the game actually calls it "Riding Skill" (see http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Riding_Skill or visit the stablemaster in game to see). It's also why all of the mounts owned by one character get "upgraded" at the same time. But I agree with you that riding skill should be account-wide.

klowdy1 · February 2018

Facefister wrote: »

xbobx wrote: »

the main one I will agree on is the mount training There is absolutely no reason at all mount training cant be account wide. it has no real effect on endgame is just helps to take away some of the stress.

this is something they seriously need to thinking about.

A well trained mount has a big impact on Cyrodiil though.

I would say CP has a bigger impact in Cyrodil than mounts, but CP is account wide.

Facefister wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Facefister wrote: »

Twenty0zTsunami wrote: »

The mount training and the skyshard system is the worst of it imo. In other ways, it's one of the better games as far as alts goes (specifically coming to mind : my 400 CP dispersal with each new character)

Skyshard farming can be done in a day or two. It's tedious and annoying but doable in such a short amount of time. Mount training however, takes you atleast 150 days(assumed you train every 20 hours). All the skill lines, skyhards and other stuff I understand, also accept it, but the mount training should be account wide, since you train your mount and not yourself(as a character). Frankly, the horrendous mount speed at level 1 keeps me from making alts.

I agree and also think the mount training should be account-wide. With the current in-game language, though, I think you are actually training your character and not your mount. The game calls it "riding skill."

"Speed," "Stamina" and "Capacity" are dependant on the mount itself, not on the rider. You also see the upgrades of those on the mount.

If that were the case, you would have to train each mount you own individually. You are obviously training yourself, because you take the skills from mount to mount.

HatchetHaro · February 2018

Man, all these naysayers must really enjoy mindlessly grinding up to Undaunted lvl 9, farming Skyshards, and farming Lorebooks, repeatedly, on different characters.

As a guy who has done that on 4 characters and with 6 more in the works (3 already at lvl 50, 3 still questing), doing the same Cadwell's Almanac quests over and over again for exp + skillpoints, running through zones for all of those Lorebooks, running through Skyreach Catacombs repeatedly to fully max out my abilities, grinding out veteran pledges for weeks for Undaunted, grinding Cyrodiil for days just for Caltrops on stamina toons, and getting geared out properly at least for veteran dungeons, on every single toon, it does take a toll on you.

Not everybody has the time to grind multiple characters up to the end-game level, and not everybody has the motivation to do it, because it is, objectively, tedious and boring stuff. You really can not tell me to enjoy the journey, especially when I've been through the exact same route many many times. The moment progression becomes a grind is when people get burnt out.

Banana · February 2018

Ive made one alt. It was extremely tedious. I wouldnt do it again.
Class change token please.

Merlin13KAGL · February 2018

50-100 hours for a max'd level character with pretty much everything needed for anything you wish to do (crafting notwithstanding).

<25 hours to L50 (decent average, obviously this can be made to happen a lot faster if you wish) This also nets you maxed class skills lines and close to max weapon line(s).

<25 hours to Undaunted 9. Your numbers are not entirely accurate, as you're going to get additional rep for first completion, the occasional speed run/no death, etc. You can also stop at Undaunted 7 and have half the benefit. The extra 1-3% you're going to get from the final two Undaunted levels is not going to make nor break any character in any way. It's the equivalent of one free glyph...

Not every character is going to need MG 10.

FG will level automatically as you level the character - more than half the game is daedra or undead. It's not as if you have to separately seek this out.

All of these, while they may seem tedious, are quite attainable in a relatively short amount of time, and they only need to be achieved once per character.

Gold is shared, gear is shared, so all of those points were eliminated long ago. FG/MG/Undaunted also provide simple dailies that will accelerate the process - none of those are included in your listing either.

So, worst case scenario, you want 13 alts, that's 1400 hours to be maxed out however you see fit. Less than a year's playtime if you play 4 hours a day on average to have 14 trial ready, fully functional characters.

...or...you can accelerate the process and then wonder why you're completely bored and burnt out 3 months into the game.

Compared to what it once was, with no Crown Store accelerants, gear that was character bound on pickup and untradeable among group members, let alone able to be trait changed, and no shared benefits (CP's) among level 50+ characters, its well within reach.

You're also no longer obligated to linearly follow the game, skipping or partaking in whatever you like.

If you want a template character, go to the PTS. If you want to play the game, play the game.

EDIT: Regarding lorebooks and skyshards, it's not like the location changes and you literally have to find them on every character. If you did, you might actually have valid complaint.

Dracofyre wrote: »

i think an upgraded alt by optional choice would be ideal for some players.

i started as GF, and took me 3 months to reach 50 lvl 160cp.

then what if they ask you to bring in healer alt and you dont have it ready and too low for them to wait 3 months to fo a group runs, they wont wait.
see? it would be nice to have 1 more alt in a hurry.

redoing the book runs, shards, and crafting leveling, thay are "pita".

if others said no, they they have options to decline shortcuts. i heard devs said this game is "play the way you want", and it hadnt live up to the name.

So you played, what, an hour a day? Because you can muck-about your way to 50 in one hour per level, and you get 12 full days' worth of enlightenment the first time you roll over to L50, with vastly discounted cost until you're a lot closer to cap than 160.

Jura23 · February 2018

Except most of those things don't have to be done to play an alt. Actually they don't have to be done even on your main.

Goshua · February 2018

Also, if you want Soul Assualt, do the main story (Prophet, Companions) which gets a little yawn after half way through the first time.

Thanks for the list, not so thankful for the reminder.

I am enjoying the skyshard, lore book and delve hunt but as you point out, even those are just the tip of the ice berg

craigr02 · February 2018

I like your idea of solution 2 and 3. Its sad so many jumped down your throat about changing up how its done. I'm like you, i hate having to go find all that stuff again, so it would be nice to have the option to just have it done. If someone wants to do all of it over thats fine, but when i make a new toon it's for a reason, and it sucks having to do all the crap again to get them trial or pvp ready. This could also benefit Zos as another crown revenue stream.

SugaComa · February 2018

One thing use like to see is link character

So when you start a new character if you have one over 160 CP you can link it what this does is makes your alt start at 160cp or over

You have all the achievements from the linked character unlocked and linked so now essentially your one character is two ... And as you can only play one at a time it's not an issue

However all quests on the alt remian unlocked so you can now go play them your max level with all your main stays and all over land content bow scales to a harder difficulty

Gorgoneus · February 2018

Why you trying to researcha bicycle when you have a Harley Davidson created and tested well by other MMOs?

Motherball · February 2018

Leveling to 50 is the most fun Ive had in this game. It would be nice to be able to turn xp off, so I can actually enjoy some of the dungeon sets at lower levels instead of just collecting them across several characters that get deleted at level 50. Not really about those other chores except maybe the skyshards.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Kwik1 wrote: »

None of the things you listed are critical to doing trials and only moderately so for PvP.

To the contrary. As I said in my original post, obviously not every item is going to apply to every character. However, as an example, if you are not doing some things, then someone who is above average is compensating for you in a competitive veteran trial:

- You must be level 50
- Max Mages Guild to get Meteor, Inner Light, and the passives (magicka characters)
- Unlock skyshards to have points to get skills
- Get vampire and level it up (magicka charcters)
- Level up skill lines - destro ult, etc.
- Get Warhorn (tanks and healers) and level it up
- Get Purge (healers) and level it up
- Guard is also used sometimes in trials
- Level up Undaunted to get orbs (healers) and fully unlock the passive (all roles) that increases your resource pools, which in turn increases your damage and sustain (requires level 9)

Competitive vet trials involves min-maxing your character, which in turn involves the above items. For your normal trials, no, you don't need everything, but you still need some of the above, like orbs for healers.

Dracofyre · February 2018

these "Naysayers" wants everyone to play HARDCORE on everyday triviality meaningless tasks.
make me wonder are these guys are sick? oh yeah, i know, they dont like changes. becasue they feel safer if nothing changed and they hates upgrades.

DoctorESO · February 2018

craigr02 wrote: »

I like your idea of solution 2 and 3. Its sad so many jumped down your throat about changing up how its done. I'm like you, i hate having to go find all that stuff again, so it would be nice to have the option to just have it done. If someone wants to do all of it over thats fine, but when i make a new toon it's for a reason, and it sucks having to do all the crap again to get them trial or pvp ready. This could also benefit Zos as another crown revenue stream.

SugaComa wrote: »

One thing use like to see is link character

So when you start a new character if you have one over 160 CP you can link it what this does is makes your alt start at 160cp or over

You have all the achievements from the linked character unlocked and linked so now essentially your one character is two ... And as you can only play one at a time it's not an issue

However all quests on the alt remian unlocked so you can now go play them your max level with all your main stays and all over land content bow scales to a harder difficulty

Great ideas!

kyle.wilson · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

[*] Level from 1-50

At least you don't have to level to V16 anymore. That was 10times longer than the 1-50race. which can be done In a few hours now.

[Edit to remove bait]

Kiralyn2000 · February 2018

Dracofyre wrote: »

these "Naysayers" wants everyone to play HARDCORE on everyday triviality meaningless tasks.
make me wonder are these guys are sick? oh yeah, i know, they dont like changes. becasue they feel safer if nothing changed and they hates upgrades.

No, we're "casuals" who have a hard time believing this "hardcore" statement that you NEED a 100% maxed-everything character to begin pvping or trials.

(And then Doc moved the goalposts up above, saying that it's for "competitive Vet Trials" not just "doing trials". If you're trying to win the vet trial leaderboards, that's definitely hardcore, not general play.)

edit: and going back to look at the list again.... I'm not sure how "have all the wayshrines" and "do DLC/guild questlines so those NPC questgivers stop annoying you" contribute to either PvP or trials. Those mostly seem like convenience. If you're going to list those, does your "things required for a main character to trial/pvp" list include buying all the costumes, mounts, & houses?

LordSemaj · February 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

edit: and going back to look at the list again.... I'm not sure how "have all the wayshrines" and "do DLC/guild questlines so those NPC questgivers stop annoying you" contribute to either PvP or trials. Those mostly seem like convenience. If you're going to list those, does your "things required for a main character to trial/pvp" list include buying all the costumes, mounts, & houses?

Similarly, contributing all your earned XP towards CP leveling is purely for convenience and shortcutting the time "wasted" leveling new alts. If we're going to add all these convenient shortcuts to the entire purpose of an MMORPG (the content) then can we also add a button that gives people instant max CP? It'd be so much easier to get friends to play if they could be CP 690 right now.

None of these objectives are viable because MMORPGs live and breathe on players logging in to "waste time". Bind on Pickup exists to make other people "waste time" getting their own gear instead of the old days of MMOs where all loot was tradeable and hand-me-downs flooded the market.

thedude33 · February 2018

@ all the 'hard core' players talking about having to EARN things. It gives a good laugh to gamers that played EQ

DoctorESO · February 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

buying all the costumes, mounts, & houses?

Those are actually account-wide and do not need to be reacquired by alts.

Also, regarding the list in the OP, as noted, not all items will apply to all characters, and the list is not limited to alts for competitive veteran trials.

xaraan · February 2018

I have done all that for 14 characters now, I'm a broken man.

Obviously not every item, like leveling ww/vampire to max on each character, but I've gotten most all shards (skip pvp zones on some alts and still could pick up new dlc zones on a couple others), done silver/gold quests, leveled crafting on all of them, leveled horse to max on all of them, got mage guild books on all of them, etc. etc. Not to mention this was back in the day when I also had to level each one of them to max Vet Rank before they did the CP thing.

So if you ask me, I'll just have the 'old-timer' response of "back in my day" to whatever your new fangled ideas to make your journey easier than mine.

I do not think people should get max level characters, or all the shards or all the mage books automatically.

But, even with the mentality of not giving the noobs the same things for less cost than the vets worked for, a few things could be improved:
Ideas I would like to see:

Achievements reworked. There should be a couple different types of achievements - the ones bound to a character for questing and then general account achievements, like killing x deadra, etc. Even after all this time, I've given up on trying to get achievements as a collection. I have my crafter that gets crafting stuff, my pvp guys that does that, my trials guy that does that, etc. Not sure of the perfect solution (it's not making all achievements account wide btw) but it definitely needs to be reworked in some form.

Unlocking all the wayshrines, or most of the major ones in each zone, is not a bad idea I've seen mentioned here.

As for those complaining about redoing your keybindings - if you are on PC - Votan's Keybindings. It keeps them account wide and also lets you select a box if you want to change something for just a specific character.

But tbh, threads like these just smack of people wanting things handed to them and not wanting to put the work in they've seen their neighbor doing. You want the stuff, then do it.

Tavore1138 · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Reasonable minds may differ, but I'm sure we can all agree that this game is not the "most" alt-friendly game in the industry.

I am mostly from a solo gaming background so my expectation is that if I play through a game with one character and start a second then I will have to play through again with that one - and since I buy games with the specific intention of playing them then I feel this is a good thing.

There are certain things I will probably only do once or twice on the achieves but they are not on your list - things like maybe getting more than a couple of Master Anglers and I doubt any of my alts will catch up to my main in terms of war level.

But all the other stuff is just part of playing the game - some of them are not necessary like vamp or levelling more than the skills your alt needs and ones like the legerdemain just come with time spent playing and, really, if you don't like dungeons , or PvP or questing then have maybe you should take a few minutes to ask yourself why you are playing this game if all you want to do is tear it down and make it into another game?

elantaura · February 2018

I level horse before I play then - I start in normal maelstrom, remain in pvp untill level 9/10 assault I'd reached I grab cyro shards as I pass. From level46 do some undaunted. maybe Do VMA - ( helps with fighters guild lots of daedra) I used to level in in VDSA ( again with the daedra) but my friends left sigh. then look for skyshards and lorebooks at the same time - lol my start is your endgame. You really don't need much to join in stuff really.

Tandor · February 2018

Dracofyre wrote: »

these "Naysayers" wants everyone to play HARDCORE on everyday triviality meaningless tasks.
make me wonder are these guys are sick? oh yeah, i know, they dont like changes. becasue they feel safer if nothing changed and they hates upgrades.

No, we just want to play the game with more than one character. Others just want to play the game with one character and have the endgame gifted to their other characters.