All the tedious things that have to be done when creating an alt, and 3 possible solutions

DoctorESO · February 2018

Reasonable minds may differ, but I'm sure we can all agree that this game is not the "most" alt-friendly game in the industry. There certainly are games that are less alt-friendly, but there are also games that are more alt-friendly. However, wherever this game may fall on the spectrum, there is quite a lot of tedious things that have to be done when creating a new alt for trials, PvP, etc. I'm sure I forgot some things, so feel free to add to this list:

Level from 1-50
Train your mount to 60 speed, 60 stamina, and 60 bag space (180 days)
Travel to and unlock 230 wayshrines (full list is available at UESP), some of which are locked behind long quest chains
Find 276 lorebooks to level Mages Guild to the max (5 points per book, 1,380 points needed)
Close 348 dolmens or kill 6,960 undead/daedra to level Fighters Guild to the max (20 points per dolmen, 1 point per undead/daedra killed, 6,960 points needed)
Travel to and unlock 405 skyshards (full list is available at UESP), some of which are locked behind long quest chains
Complete 130 normal pledges or 65 veteran hardmode pledges to level Undaunted to 9 to unlock the skills and passives (10 points per normal pledge, 20 points per veteran pledge, 1,300 points needed)
Fence 3,780 stolen items to earn 3,780 points in Legerdemain to unlock all the force-lock passives for the White-Gold Tower dungeon
Complete 53 Marked for Death contracts to earn 265 points in Dark Brotherhood to unlock the Shadow Rider passive (aggression radius from hostile monsters decreased by 50% while mounted)
Accept and complete the quests from the quest givers that follow you around to get them to stop stalking and annoying you
Get a vampire or werewolf bite and complete the quest
Level up vampire or werewolf to the max
Repeatedly swap various skills on and off your bar so you ensure they get leveled up
Achieve 188,000 Alliance War Points to unlock Warhorn, Rapid Manuever, Vigor, Caltrops, Barrier, Purge, and Guard (188,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 6)
Achieve an additional 120,000 Alliance War Points to unlock Magicka Detonation (308,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 7)
Achieve yet an additional 850,000 Alliance War Points to unlock all the Assault/Support passives (1,158,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 10)

Not all items will apply to all characters, obviously.

But there are three possible solutions to help alleviate the tedium and make this game more alt-friendly. Since we don't have the ability to create a poll where you can choose more than one option, I will list the three solutions below separately so you can register your agreement with the ones you support (you can use the "Agree" button). All solutions are designed such that people who want to re-do the journey on their new alts aren't harmed.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Solution 1:

When creating a new alt, give a one-time choice of unlocking things that have already been unlocked by your other charcters.

Obviously, what will be unlocked is up for debate, but it can include, as examples, wayshrines and lorebooks. People who want to re-do the journey on their new alts can decline the option, so this solution would not harm them.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Solution 2:

Allow crowns to be used to unlock certain things that have already been unlocked by your other characters.

What can be unlocked is up for update, but it can include, as examples, wayshrines and lorebooks.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Solution 3:

Allow experience gained from 1-50 to also count towards account-wide CP increase (the amount of experience applied to the CP pool would be equal to that of a level 50 character).

This would not only prevent the feeling of losing out from leveling a new alt as opposed to leveling an existing level 50 character, but it would also reward people for all the work they have to do in unlocking wayshrines, etc. all over again. People who don't want this feature and want to slow CP gain can turn it off.

DoctorESO · February 2018

Kiralyn2000 · February 2018

I take it you're one of those "the game starts at endgame" types, since much of the stuff you list as needed for "creating" an alt seems to be the actual playing of the game after creating the alt.

(also, do people really expect that they need all of those things on any character they make? I'm certain that I haven't done all of that on all my characters combined. Even ignoring the 'I don't pvp' part.)

DoctorESO · February 2018

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I take it you're one of those "the game starts at endgame" types, since much of the stuff you list as needed for "creating" an alt seems to be the actual playing of the game after creating the alt.

(also, do people really expect that they need all of those things on any character they make? I'm certain that I haven't done all of that on all my characters combined. Even ignoring the 'I don't pvp' part.)

If you're creating an alt to make a new class/role for PvP or a trial, then yes that would be creating an alt for the end-game.

LordSemaj · February 2018

None of the above. The game starts at level 1, not at end game. If your goal was to make a character for end game then it's like making a character whose goal is being level 50. That doesn't mean we should just hand you a level 50 character. You gave birth to a new character, not a toy you bought in the store, so start actually playing it. The journey is as important as the destination in an MMORPG. If you just want a game with an assortment of characters that have all their skills unlocked that you can swap between freely, buy Overwatch.

Tandor · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Reasonable minds may differ, but I'm sure we can all agree that this game is not the "most" alt-friendly game in the industry.

On the contrary, we most definitely cannot all agree on that.

There are two ways of running alts. One is as a quick way of getting a different class to "end-game", the other is as a means of playing through the whole game with a different character. You may not consider ESO alt-friendly under the first scenario, while plenty including me would strongly oppose any attempt to "fix" it under that scenario as it would wreck the whole point of playing alts under the second scenario.

Therein lies the difference between us! I'd hate any of your suggestions, but the least problematic solution to your complaint for me would be if those who have leveled one character to max level and don't want to do the same again could simply buy an expensive crown token to achieve everything they want without ruining the game for those who'd rather play it fully with all their characters.

MMOs are meant to be played for years, not weeks or even months, and the journey is always better than the destination - even for those who say they're only interested in the "end-game" as all they seem to do when they get there is complain about the lack of content!

Juju_beans · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

I take it you're one of those "the game starts at endgame" types, since much of the stuff you list as needed for "creating" an alt seems to be the actual playing of the game after creating the alt.

(also, do people really expect that they need all of those things on any character they make? I'm certain that I haven't done all of that on all my characters combined. Even ignoring the 'I don't pvp' part.)

If you're creating an alt to make a new class/role for PvP or a trial, then yes that would be creating an alt for the end-game.

So you create alts for end game stuff. What you really want is a boost and full completion..instant cp690 ready to enter that trial after the create screen.

Very few MMO's are alt friendly because MMO's are about the journey just as much as the destination.

Jayman1000 · February 2018

I disagree on a number of those points. I dont find leveling 1-50 boring, also dont find it boring to find lorebooks again or skyshards again. I enjoy visiting these places and reading the books again. Also enjoy reading and experiencing the quests again. Maybe Im special, idk

About swapping skills I don't find that annoying either, because (for me at least) it is a new character with new skills so it's a new experience.

I feel that much of what you write is the actual game experience; I feel lucky now that I actually enjoy this.

Kwik1 · February 2018

Go play WoW where you can buy your way to max lvl.

None of the things you listed are critical to doing trials and only moderately so for PvP.

Stop trying to change the game to suit YOUR needs after you have done the things you mentioned. I have every character slot filled and I have still deleted a few toons to make different toons. If I want max mage guild I understand I need to track down books. if I want Dawnbreaker I understand I will need to farm undead. If I want speed or backpack space I understand it will take time on the horse.

Deal with it or move on but stop trying to change the game that you obviously loved enough to play to this point, but now suddenly you want everything handed to you so you don't have to work at it anymore?

VilniusNastavnik · February 2018

I don't mind doing any of this. The one thing I hate is horses. Getting those things levelled each time a new toon is created. Its a collection item o it should be retroactive. I ended up stopping on all but my main. Partly because almost all my toons are for dungeons, and I only do quests on my main. I don't PvP either, and unlock wayshrines on the way to getting the books.

FLuFFyxMuFFiN · February 2018

Here is a tip to avoid the tedious processes of creating new alts:

Don't create them

DoctorESO · February 2018

For a taxi driver, it is indeed the journey and not the destination that counts.

Kwik1 · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

For a taxi driver, it is indeed the journey and not the destination that counts.

Actually it IS the destination that matters for a taxi driver because he doesn't get paid until reaching the point of drop off.

What is the point you were trying to make with this completely wrong analogy?

Jayman1000 · February 2018

Tandor wrote: »

could simply buy an expensive crown token to achieve everything they want without ruining the game for those who'd rather play it fully with all their characters.

Not a bad idea, and perhaps it could even funnel some cash away from account sellers and power levelers and into ZOS's coffers instead?

thedude33 · February 2018

I actually kind of agree with the OP. I have 4 toons that have everything I need ..mages...pvp level 10 ...mounts with max speed/carry. Weapons/skills/crafting leveled. Harborage complete

I have 4 alts in their teens. Every time I think I should level them I shudder over all the things I will need to do/repeat. So I instead log onto my main and head out to pvp.

I don't agree with the WoW way of insta characters though.

I'm not sure what could be done, but adding something as mentioned by the OP would add to the staying power of the game imo

DieAlteHexe · February 2018

I cannot imagine how some players would functio

Jayman1000 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

could simply buy an expensive crown token to achieve everything they want without ruining the game for those who'd rather play it fully with all their characters.

Not a bad idea, and perhaps it could even funnel some cash away from account sellers and power levelers and into ZOS's coffers instead?

It's been done in other MMOs with mixed results. Biggest issue can be that when folks buy a "capped" character they have no clue as to how to play the class they choose and then inflict that upon others.

I did it, once, in SWTOR but I chose a class I already had plenty of experience with. I encountered too many who were, understandably, clueless.

Lynx7386 · February 2018

I just wish that I didnt have to unlock all crafting styles and research all traits again to have a second character capable of crafting his own gear. Very tedious.

Kiralyn2000 · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

[*] Achieve 188,000 Alliance War Points to unlock Warhorn, Rapid Manuever, Vigor, Caltrops, Barrier, Purge, and Guard (188,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 6)
[*] Achieve an additional 120,000 Alliance War Points to unlock Magicka Detonation (308,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 7)
[*] Achieve yet an additional 850,000 Alliance War Points to unlock all the Assault/Support passives (1,158,000 total points needed to unlock Assault/Support Rank 10)

It's also kind of interesting that you "have" to do an awful lot of pvp to.... prepare your character for pvp?

Linaleah · February 2018

Kwik1 wrote: »

Go play WoW where you can buy your way to max lvl.

None of the things you listed are critical to doing trials and only moderately so for PvP.

Stop trying to change the game to suit YOUR needs after you have done the things you mentioned. I have every character slot filled and I have still deleted a few toons to make different toons. If I want max mage guild I understand I need to track down books. if I want Dawnbreaker I understand I will need to farm undead. If I want speed or backpack space I understand it will take time on the horse.

Deal with it or move on but stop trying to change the game that you obviously loved enough to play to this point, but now suddenly you want everything handed to you so you don't have to work at it anymore?

actualy... buying max level in WoW doesn't actualy skip any of the content, its the equivalent of buying a lvl 50 in ESO, who still needs to gather all the skill points, skyshards, etc. (or in WoW terms - reputation, quest chain unlocks, artifact levels, gear, etc) oh.. right. your mount is leveled up, but given that leveling a mount in WoW is not a 6 months investment like it is in ESO to begin with - its comparing apples to oranges. (and time gating of mount leveling in ESO has been a pet peeve for a while - just let me pay it all at once. please. in gold, not crowns)

meanwhile in ESO - my alts share cp with my main. I can trade them gear from my main. that alone makes gigantic difference. my alts in wow have to go through painful process of getting starter gear and then end game gear individually, if I want to do anything on them. my alts in ESO? hit 50 and they are ready to go.

swtor used to be friendlier to alts then ESO... and then swtor introduced galactic command. so... yeah, of the games that I have personaly played? ESO is pretty decent when it comes to alts. minus that whole time gate on mount leveling.

Acrolas · February 2018

The problem is when people make a grocery list like the OP's of things they "have" to do. If you build a wall first, you won't want to climb it. You'll consider taking the sour grapes approach instead, to talk yourself out of it.

So don't fall into a self-defeating mindset. Make the alt, and take it one day at a time.

It's really that simple.

thedude33 · February 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

Kwik1 wrote: »

Go play WoW where you can buy your way to max lvl.

None of the things you listed are critical to doing trials and only moderately so for PvP.

Stop trying to change the game to suit YOUR needs after you have done the things you mentioned. I have every character slot filled and I have still deleted a few toons to make different toons. If I want max mage guild I understand I need to track down books. if I want Dawnbreaker I understand I will need to farm undead. If I want speed or backpack space I understand it will take time on the horse.

Deal with it or move on but stop trying to change the game that you obviously loved enough to play to this point, but now suddenly you want everything handed to you so you don't have to work at it anymore?

actualy... buying max level in WoW doesn't actualy skip any of the content, its the equivalent of buying a lvl 50 in ESO, who still needs to gather all the skill points, skyshards, etc. (or in WoW terms - reputation, quest chain unlocks, artifact levels, gear, etc) oh.. right. your mount is leveled up, but given that leveling a mount in WoW is not a 6 months investment like it is in ESO to begin with - its comparing apples to oranges. (and time gating of mount leveling in ESO has been a pet peeve for a while - just let me pay it all at once. please. in gold, not crowns)

meanwhile in ESO - my alts share cp with my main. I can trade them gear from my main. that alone makes gigantic difference. my alts in wow have to go through painful process of getting starter gear and then end game gear individually, if I want to do anything on them. my alts in ESO? hit 50 and they are ready to go.

swtor used to be friendlier to alts then ESO... and then swtor introduced galactic command. so... yeah, of the games that I have personaly played? ESO is pretty decent when it comes to alts. minus that whole time gate on mount leveling.

That is a great point

newtinmpls · February 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Reasonable minds may differ, but I'm sure we can all agree that this game is not the "most" alt-friendly game in the industry. There certainly are games that are less alt-friendly, but there are also games that are more alt-friendly. However, wherever this game may fall on the spectrum, there is quite a lot of tedious things that have to be done when creating a new alt for trials, PvP, etc. I'm sure I forgot some things, so feel free to add to this list:

I have not yet done all that on any character.

Or the total of my characters for that matter

thedude33 · February 2018

Acrolas wrote: »

The problem is when people make a grocery list like the OP's of things they "have" to do. If you build a wall first, you won't want to climb it. You'll consider taking the sour grapes approach instead, to talk yourself out of it.

So don't fall into a self-defeating mindset. Make the alt, and take it one day at a time.

It's really that simple.

I agree ..but if I have to watch that old slow gandalf @#^^ walking 1 mph while I wait for him again in the harborage I might go insane.

Facefister · February 2018

The only thing bothers me are the mount upgrades. We upgrade the mount itself, mounts are account wide, why we have to wait 180 days again?

Danikat · February 2018

If you're making them for a specific purpose like PvP or trials it seems highly likely you could skip some or all of the stuff you listed, like unlocking all the wayshrines. You can't seriously tell me you create a new alt specifically for end-game but you cannot play them unless they're able to get to all 4 starter islands at a moments notice?

And that you use builds which require skills from both the mages guild and fighters guild, vampire or werewolf skills, all the PvP skills and enough class/weapon skills that it feels arduous to train them (and requires every possible skyshard to unlock them).

If you're creating alts specifically to have additional classes/builds for PvP or trials and you think you need to do all this first I recommend speaking to some more experienced players to help you narrow your list down. In particular instead of trying to unlock every skill under the sun before you can use the character work out your build in advance - before you even make the character - then you can save a huge amount of time by focusing on just getting the skills you actually need. Sure you may need to unlock/train extras later on when balance changes happen and the meta-game shifts, but that will also be a lot quicker because you'll just be unlocking one skill (or a few skills if it's a big change).

And if you're about to tell me I've misunderstood and you don't create alts for one specific purpose but instead want to be able to play everything on them then that's a solution in itself. What you've listed isn't stuff to get out the way before you play the character - it's what will happen while you're playing them. You can start enjoying yourself right from level 1 and consider this a list of goals to work towards with them instead of stuff to rush past only to find yourself restricted to a few 'end game' areas because you've done everything else.

majulook · February 2018

I have 7 characters, All with maxed out mount and all craft skills. Along with maxing out mage, fighter, thieves, dark brotherhood, and undaunted guilds.

My first character has done everything in pve. did some pvp but did not like the way pvp areas performed

The others I have spent the time to make them all complete all skill point quests (including silver and gold), and getting all pve area skyshards, dolmens, world bosses, dungeon, and delve bosses .

I say once you get a character to max level. Lets be given a choice to instant max level any other characters. This way the rewards for quests would at least be worthwhile.

Sixty5 · February 2018

You missed

"Go through settings to ensure that addon settings and keybindings are all correct, and then hours later finding something that isn't correct and having to repeat the entire process to fix the issue"

Juju_beans · February 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I just wish that I didnt have to unlock all crafting styles and research all traits again to have a second character capable of crafting his own gear. Very tedious.

I only have one of my toons doing research and collecting all the motifs.
The others have the blue motifs, decon and do the daily writs to get their levels up so I can use them all for farming mats.

With the next dlc though there are 15 day research reduction scrolls so that might help you a lot if you have multiple toons doing full crafting.