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Suggestions for Balancing Mag Warden
Osubaker33
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Now that birds are dodgeable I think we can finally start balancing Mag Warden for PVE without making them too powerful in PVP.
Starting Point.
I main 3 mag characters, a magblade, a pet sorc, and a mag warden. For the following dps numbers I understand that there are others who can pull quite a bit higher dps. The point of comparison here is that my skill being roughly equal between the 3, what disparities are there?
My magblade generally pulls between 36-38k on the dummy depending on how well i pull off the rotation.
My Pet Sorc is pretty consistently at 36k
On the other hand Mag Warden is right at 30k (a 20% deficit)
I will compare Mag Warden with Pet Sorc often because I have the exact same gear on both. (Necropotence and Julianos with 1 peice Iceheart)
How could we make up that gap without adding too much power to them in PVP?
1. Winter's Revenge - buff this to equal damage of Sorc's liquid lightning. Winter's Revenge tooltip on my Warden is 2639, while Liquid Lightning on my Pet Sorc is 3602 That is a HUGE disparity. This skill is almost never used in PVP anyway so don't have to worry about PVP balance for it. (Increase damage 33%)
2. Fetcher Infection - Does 2k dps on first cast and 3k on second with 50% bonus. I would increase the second cast bonus to 100% (Would equate to a 500 dps increase or 1000/ every other cast), add Minor Breach and Fracture to the other morph.
3. Deep Fissure is fine the way it is.
4. Birds - now that they are dodgeable I would lower the cast cost by 10%. Would bring thier cost/reward a little more in line with swallow soul and give more of a reason to use over Force Pulse (ie better sustain)
5. Arctic Wind (dps morph) - requires you to be close to your target and has a very high cost for its damage and healing. I would remove the healing aspect for this morph (so that it does not become too potent for tanks) , lower the cost to that of Winter's Revenge for this morph only, and scale damage off of spell damage and magica. Ideally at 3k Spell Damage and 40k magica it would do 2400 tooltip dps for 10 seconds in a large AOE around the caster. Would add some variety to the caster who wants to play an Ice Warden.
Passives
1. The Animal Companions passives are a little lackluster. One alternative to just increasing the damage of skills mentioned above would be to buff advanced species.
2. Green Balance - not touching on healing in this post.
3. Winter's Embrace -
a. Frozen Armor - add 1,000 defense if an Ice Staff is equipped (Nice for tanks and for backbarring an ice staff for blockade of ice, just dont heavy attack with it
).
b. Icy Aura - increase from 15% to 25%
c. Piercing Cold - Increase the cold portion to 15% Would make using blockade of Ice on a Warden an interesting choice.
I think this would go a long way to closing the gap between Mag Warden and the other Mag classes. I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions.
Edited by Osubaker33 on February 3, 2018 2:13AM Starting Point.
I main 3 mag characters, a magblade, a pet sorc, and a mag warden. For the following dps numbers I understand that there are others who can pull quite a bit higher dps. The point of comparison here is that my skill being roughly equal between the 3, what disparities are there?
My magblade generally pulls between 36-38k on the dummy depending on how well i pull off the rotation.
My Pet Sorc is pretty consistently at 36k
On the other hand Mag Warden is right at 30k (a 20% deficit)
I will compare Mag Warden with Pet Sorc often because I have the exact same gear on both. (Necropotence and Julianos with 1 peice Iceheart)
How could we make up that gap without adding too much power to them in PVP?
1. Winter's Revenge - buff this to equal damage of Sorc's liquid lightning. Winter's Revenge tooltip on my Warden is 2639, while Liquid Lightning on my Pet Sorc is 3602 That is a HUGE disparity. This skill is almost never used in PVP anyway so don't have to worry about PVP balance for it. (Increase damage 33%)
2. Fetcher Infection - Does 2k dps on first cast and 3k on second with 50% bonus. I would increase the second cast bonus to 100% (Would equate to a 500 dps increase or 1000/ every other cast), add Minor Breach and Fracture to the other morph.
3. Deep Fissure is fine the way it is.
4. Birds - now that they are dodgeable I would lower the cast cost by 10%. Would bring thier cost/reward a little more in line with swallow soul and give more of a reason to use over Force Pulse (ie better sustain)
5. Arctic Wind (dps morph) - requires you to be close to your target and has a very high cost for its damage and healing. I would remove the healing aspect for this morph (so that it does not become too potent for tanks) , lower the cost to that of Winter's Revenge for this morph only, and scale damage off of spell damage and magica. Ideally at 3k Spell Damage and 40k magica it would do 2400 tooltip dps for 10 seconds in a large AOE around the caster. Would add some variety to the caster who wants to play an Ice Warden.
Passives
1. The Animal Companions passives are a little lackluster. One alternative to just increasing the damage of skills mentioned above would be to buff advanced species.
2. Green Balance - not touching on healing in this post.
3. Winter's Embrace -
a. Frozen Armor - add 1,000 defense if an Ice Staff is equipped (Nice for tanks and for backbarring an ice staff for blockade of ice, just dont heavy attack with it
).b. Icy Aura - increase from 15% to 25%
c. Piercing Cold - Increase the cold portion to 15% Would make using blockade of Ice on a Warden an interesting choice.
I think this would go a long way to closing the gap between Mag Warden and the other Mag classes. I look forward to your thoughts and suggestions.
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭What in the world is this?
1. Liquid lightning is not a PVP skill either. Nobody uses it because it’s terrible in PVP, because real people don’t stand in it. In fact if you see someone cast it, you pretty much know they’re a terrible/inexperienced player and free AP.
2. You forgot shimmering shield. Move some of the benefits to the other morph, cut the shield amount with battle spirit.0 -
Osubaker33✭✭✭"What in the world is this?" - very constructive
And I never said Liquid Lightning is a pvp skill, just that Winter's Revenge isn't really either so buffing it won't effect Warden pvp performance.Edited by Osubaker33 on February 2, 2018 6:48PM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If this thread is about PvE improvements, why do you insist on cost reduction of birds? The change did nothing for PvE. Also, do you use birds over Pulse in PvE?0 -
VilniusNastavnik✭✭✭✭✭Dive Mag morph
> has a 28m range
> costs 2431 magicka.
> Magic damage
> Deals 15% more damage > 15m away .
Pulse
> 28m range
> costs 2700 magicka
> Fire + Frost + Shock damage
> Almost instant travel time
> Ricochets between characters (max 2x) if status effect is present.
> Asylum staff buffs further.
I'd say leave Dive's cost the way it is. It's a poor mans Pulse with no real benefit to the skill. If it's travel time was decreased and it applied a status effect, that would be better.
Winter's revenge. Yes. I agree it needs a 33% DPS boost. Bring it in line with other class AOEs (LL, Blazing spears, Twisting, ash cloud,, etc).
Beetles, are fine as they are. They are a burst. Useless in PvP unless you are against a nub that does not know what they are doing. Easily telegraphed. Could give it a dot effect (aka beetles burrowing to the surface) and decrease the end burst (See unstable wall of elements). Keep status effect.
Fletcher infestation. Impartial.
Arctic wind. Impartial Most mag wardens would be at range anyway. More of a tank skill.
As to the passives.. I can agree with those.
Other thing that would help is changing Ice staves in general. Removing the tank nature of the staves..
Fire = Single target
Lightning = AOE
Why not have Ice = DOT boost.Active Toons:
NA - VilniusNastavnik - Magsorc DPS - Altmer
NA - Ko'h Nehko'h - Stamblade Archer - Khajit
NA - Arwyn Winterlight - MagPlar Healer - Breton
NA - Urog Blackfang - DK Tank - Orc
NA - Elen Windsong - Stamsorc DPS - Bosmer
NA - Eats-Strange-Fungus - Magden HealzTank- Argonian
NA - Harwyn Northwind - MagWarden DPS - High Elf
NA - Raises-Many-Families - Necro HealzTank - Argonian
Picture of my Active Toons.
Location: Australia - Wollongong, NSW - Sydney.
Obligatory ESO Fashion website plug: Vil's Portfolio0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭I've been saying this in alot of magwarden threads. They don't have anything that the bring to the table other than major Slayer. They can buff thier dps and also get a group utility. Have while an enemy is in winter's revenge the enemy take x% more of mag damage. Buffs the class skills of the warden as well as making a warden wanted in group.-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cant say I like all of your changes, but this is coming from me as a warden tank.
1. Winter's Revenge - buff this to equal damage of Sorc's liquid lightning. Winter's Revenge tooltip on my Warden is 2639, while Liquid Lightning on my Pet Sorc is 3602 That is a HUGE disparity. This skill is almost never used in PVP anyway so don't have to worry about PVP balance for it. (Increase damage 33%)
I'm not opposed to this for those magicka dps wardens, decent change I suppose.
2. Fetcher Infection - Does 2k dps on first cast and 3k on second with 50% bonus. I would increase the second cast bonus to 100% (Would equate to a 500 dps increase or 1000/ every other cast), add Minor Breach and Fracture to the other morph.
Also an ok suggestion, I do like the idea of having minor fracture/breach on the spreading morph, would be nice for tanks to stack with subterranean assault to get both major and minor debuffs on enemies in a group.
4. Birds - now that they are dodgeable I would lower the cast cost by 10%. Would bring thier cost/reward a little more in line with swallow soul and give more of a reason to use over Force Pulse (ie better sustain)
Fine by me.
5. Arctic Wind (dps morph) - requires you to be close to your target and has a very high cost for its damage and healing. I would remove the healing aspect for this morph (so that it does not become too potent for tanks) , lower the cost to that of Winter's Revenge for this morph only, and scale damage off of spell damage and magica. Ideally at 3k Spell Damage and 40k magica it would do 2400 tooltip dps for 10 seconds in a large AOE around the caster. Would add some variety to the caster who wants to play an Ice Warden.
This I dont like. I use the damage morph for arctic wind as a tank because the area damage to enemies around me aids in keeping groups of enemies aggro'd onto me and not my dps/healer. Removing the healing from that morph means I'm losing a valuable tanking tool. The healing morph is not ideal for most tanks because often times your dps are not close enough to benefit from it (and it has very severe targeting/range issues right now on the healing portion). IMO this is a tank/healer tool and does not need any changes to better serve dps wardens at all.
Passives
3. Winter's Embrace -
a. Frozen Armor - add 1,000 defense if an Ice Staff is equipped (Nice for tanks and for backbarring an ice staff for blockade of ice, just dont heavy attack with it ).
Again as a tank I like this change. Always room for more defense.
b. Icy Aura - increase from 15% to 25%
Might be too powerful for pvp, but I cant really comment on that.
c. Piercing Cold - Increase the cold portion to 15% Would make using blockade of Ice on a Warden an interesting choice.
Dont think it's right to buff one side of it without the other and frankly it's fine as is.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank0
