Correct me if I'm wrong .. The one about Gap closers.. trust me its different.

MaxwellC · February 2018

So gap-closers are being negatively addressed with the upcoming patch in terms of a nerf and in my honest opinion I do not care.
Gap-closers are meant to close the gap of a player and if someone is crying over doing less damage or having less snare

(abilities that apply a snare after gap closing being shortened i.e. stampede)

then I feel that is strictly a L2P issue.

Now on to the real point of this thread.
So this is being looked into but not Soft CC spamming with talons, bombard, and the sorcs crystal soft cc ability,etc. I find it incredibly baffling that this still hasn't been addressed whatsoever yet we're going after something that IMO isn't anywhere significant.

We're still not addressing 'perma-block' or the issue of being able to do full heal/damage whilst blocking in PvP (PvE I feel isn't an whatsoever). This is part of the gripe I have when facing a Mag DK as its damage isn't an issue but rather the fact that I can go from being Hard CC'd into a soft CC and when I'm trying to retaliate well everything is being blocked consistently till my hard CC immunity is over and the process repeats yet again.

So we nerf Immovable pots albeit the nerf is rather minuscule and in no-way going to impact against anyone currently using it but nonetheless the move was misguided 100%.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_Wrobel
When will you attack the real issue with PvP combat i.e. perma block or being able to do full damage/healing while blocking and the ability to continually cc someone in a hard to soft loop.
One of the issues with this game is that it ignores the holy trinity but then washes CP into the mix with each update balancing around the broken CP system rather than the class themselves.

VaranisArano · February 2018

ZOS usually addresses PVP concerns with incremental fixes. That's why they haven't locked down the perma-blocking/high damage/high sustain PVP tank problem, because they are approaching it incrementally, as is pretty obvious from the last few patches since Morrowind.

That means that the incremental changes we got this time are: gap-closers, interrupts, immovable pots, warden birds, Earthgore nerf, AOE caps removed, and block cost changes. (I may have missed one or two.) ZOS, if prior patches hold true, will let the changes filter through PVP for a while before they start looking at new things to update.

So while I agree that CC immunity needs to work properly, I expect that ZOS won't address CCs until they have figured out the impact of the latest changes to PVP.

So as for ZOS addressing the perma-block tanks with high damage, this patch they've got: the 7th legion heal nerf, block cost adjustments, and removing the AOE cap, as near as I can tell. They've also reverted Battlegrounds back to No CP, allowing them to balance those perma-block tank builds purely for Cyrodiil's groups of 2 to 24 rather than trying to balance them for 2 to 24 groups AND 4v4v4 at the same time.

Again, this will be an incremental change, so I expect them to assess the impact of the changes before they make further adjustments.

Apache_Kid · February 2018

Sounds like a learn to play issue to me. Strictly speaking of course.

VaranisArano · February 2018

I think its really hard to assess the impact of CC's when lag and the broken CC immunity make it really hard to make sure that CC's are working properly in PVP.

In short, fix the lag and fix the CC immunity, and then we can figure out whether the problem is the CCs themselves or whether it was the broken immunity and the everpresent lag.

Peekachu99 · February 2018

CC immunity should apply to snares, given their prevalence. Also, if you can’t kill a permablocker, I don’t know what to say. You’ve been able to wear their resources down with light attacks since Morrowind. DKs block-babies are a bit trickier as you need to spam a CC to drain what remains of their stamina as soon as they drop their guard.

Renosence · February 2018

So part of the issue is the unwillingness for players to play counter builds. All this "nerf this, nerf that" is forcing players into these singular build types or "metas" so they feel like they can be competitive. Perma-blocking is hardly an issue. This game offers abilities and damage types that ignore block mitigation. Examples are bleeds from axes and twin slashes or the oblivion enchant. I run a stamina templar in pvp and when I am running with a group my job is to destroy tanks. I do this with high damage and dot pressure. No tank has survived the build up of power of the light, axe bleed, twin slashes bleed, jabs, allies beating on him and finishing them with a well timed cc+ulti.

I'm sure it has also been said a million times over but if a tank is perma-blocking and he has friends....go kill his friends first as he often is not adding tons of damage to a fight. It is usually the NB or Sorc sitting in the back spamming executes that kill you when you are cc'd and put on low hp.

TLDR; Find the counter of a build, play the counter of the build, expect to be countered by another build, bring friends.

Sixty5 · February 2018

Block costs are being bumped up this patch with the changes to the way cost reduction is calculated.

Apart from that, Champion Points cause a lot of the issues with the big fat tanks out there.

Simplest solution is usually best, and that tends to be, run CC that drops block, or have something in your kit that can get around it, if it is giving you troubles.

Vapirko · February 2018

Honestly gap closers are one of the least problematic skills in PvP. If you’re on the receiving end a zerg, they’re far less of an issue than any other often spammed skill like sub assault or flame reach. If you can’t deal with a gap closer in a normal fight idk what to say. I’m not that good of a player and I have my issues with lots of skills, I’ve just never, ever once on a magicka or stam toon, ranged or melee, said to myself that gap closers are OP. I do not get where people are coming from on this one, or how this got implemented. I don’t recall seeing any threads on it, hearing about it in groups or zone. For me it’s been completely out of left field.

dsalter · February 2018

VaranisArano wrote: »

ZOS usually addresses PVP concerns with incremental fixes. That's why they haven't locked down the perma-blocking/high damage/high sustain PVP tank problem, because they are approaching it incrementally, as is pretty obvious from the last few patches since Morrowind.

with a bazooka...

because they either go insane overkill or flat out blanket nerf EVERYONE which doesnt cure the problem it just makes it so the permablock build has screwed over the real blocks

Zbigb4life · February 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

So gap-closers are being negatively addressed with the upcoming patch in terms of a nerf and in my honest opinion I do not care.
Gap-closers are meant to close the gap of a player and if someone is crying over doing less damage or having less snare
(abilities that apply a snare after gap closing being shortened i.e. stampede)
then I feel that is strictly a L2P issue.

So taking the stun away from frags is also a L2P issue?

ssorgatem · February 2018

ups, wrong post

MaxwellC · February 2018

@Zbigb4life
Not sure what that has to do with the comment you quoted me on as frags aren't a gap closer.

Perma block is an issue and simply wearing them down is easier said than done especially for one who uses 2h/bow on my stam dk. Wear them down with light attacks I think one suggested and that comment alone tells me you do not play PvP or have ever dueled a Mag DK lol.

Soft CC immunity needs to be a thing because players are just going from a Hard CC to a soft CC while repeating that cycle till you run out of resources. Hard CC calls for you to break free then most likely dodge roll or block the upcoming attack since you're off balanced then comes the soft cc which calls for you to dodge roll again. This is repeated consistently and spammed through-out all classes.

Zbigb4life · February 2018

MaxwellC wrote: »

So gap-closers are being negatively addressed with the upcoming patch in terms of a nerf and in my honest opinion I do not care.
Gap-closers are meant to close the gap of a player and if someone is crying over doing less damage or having less snare
(abilities that apply a snare after gap closing being shortened i.e. stampede)
then I feel that is strictly a L2P issue.

So taking the stun away from frags is also a L2P issue?

MaxwellC wrote: »

@Zbigb4life
Not sure what that has to do with the comment you quoted me on as frags aren't a gap closer.

Perma block is an issue and simply wearing them down is easier said than done especially for one who uses 2h/bow on my stam dk. Wear them down with light attacks I think one suggested and that comment alone tells me you do not play PvP or have ever dueled a Mag DK lol.

Soft CC immunity needs to be a thing because players are just going from a Hard CC to a soft CC while repeating that cycle till you run out of resources. Hard CC calls for you to break free then most likely dodge roll or block the upcoming attack since you're off balanced then comes the soft cc which calls for you to dodge roll again. This is repeated consistently and spammed through-out all classes.

Well my point is that everytime people complain or adress an issue, people say it's a L2P... With this argument their is nothing ti discuss since everything can be catalogued as a L2P issue. There is one constant issue and that's the incompetence of ZOS to *** issues or set the balancing right.

I do understand your point and my first comment wasn't specifically pointed to you but more in general. I hope it's clarified.

MaxwellC · February 2018

@Zbigb4life
I get you and balance won't be attained because ZOS is continually balancing the game around CP and armor rather than the class in general.
The game needs to be balanced based on the class while the armor/cp need changes so they're not being a item or setup that determines how well your class plays.

I say L2P mainly because I seen the reasoning(s) others had have and they're all pretty weak. I don't want gap closers nerf'd but if they are nerfed it just doesn't seem like a thing worth arguing against unless ZOS starts balancing their game like they should be.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · February 2018

Lag is the one true enemy. Half the CC’s wouldn’t even be an issue if you didn’t have to spam breakfree and hope the game realizes you’ve been pressing the button for the last 3 seconds lol.