Fake tank in cradle of shadows yet I get a 10 minute ban for leaving, zos sort this out

Juju_beans · January 2018

There's a very simple solution folks...don't pug. You can join up to 5 guilds and run with guildies.

Fake tanks/fake healers have taken over most MMO's these days when it comes to pugging.
Didn't used to be this bad though. I guess player mentality has changed somewhat over the past couple of years.

jssriot · January 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

There's a very simple solution folks...don't pug. You can join up to 5 guilds and run with guildies.

Fake tanks/fake healers have taken over most MMO's these days when it comes to pugging.
Didn't used to be this bad though. I guess player mentality has changed somewhat over the past couple of years.

Sounds reasonable, however, atm I'm in 4 guilds and it's still hard to find good people to group with. Even with guildies you find people who are azzhats or people who just don't have the time or are not interested in helping you.

I recently tried to do pledges again on a dps alt that needs Undaunted mettle passive, and got into CoA1 with another cp690 dps and the other two were under lv 45, clearly geared as dps but had queued for all roles. If these were players I knew, I wouldn't have minded an all-dps run through CoA, but when the other CP690 dps ran off the kill the first boss and the two under-45 multi-rolers went to grab the quest and got bogged down trying to kill trash mobs (which told me they weren't even good dps), I just said *** it and left group. It sucks that you get a penalty when you leave group like that but I'm just so tired of this and so tired of saying something in group chat and getting "So what?" or "LOL" or "But the queue for dps is sooo long" as a response.

I am cool with running dungeons with lowbies. I am cool with fast runs. In certain dungeons, I would be cool with all-dps runs. However, with the dungeon finder, I am sick of this clownery.

LordSemaj · January 2018

Then you're joining guilds the same way you join dungeons... randomly.

A guild is not meant to be a place of total strangers in their own private chat LFG channel. The concept of finding a guild to run dungeons with is much simpler than it sounds -- you're being encouraged to make actual friends in the game. People you play the game with. If it's hard to find people to group with in a guild you're part of then you aren't doing that at all.

Tetrafy · January 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Sometimes you just get a terrible group. Requeue and you should have better luck next time.

Ohh yeah, we had darkshade 2 yesterday and the "tank" with a 2h sword died TWICE on the first trash mob, I just stuck around and healed until the dps killed the mob, which took forever too, said politely in chat, "tank" dies twice on first trash mob, nope i'm out.
What was just as funny is that the replacement tank, who was a tank, didn't understand the mechanics, on the netch he just tried to take the untauntable randomly teleporting netch to the other side of the area, while completely ignoring all the other netches that was killing the dps. I was laughing irl.
Because I am an experienced tank main, I know when the tank is good, or bad, so I can critique logically. We got the dungeon done, but it was a lot harder than it should have been. I had to explain mechs to him.
Another not so very good tank in CoA2, was just terrible, but the last straw was after me explaining to him that tanks arent supposed to bring the damage to the team, we got to the ash titan and he was doing donuts around it killing the dps by making it turn around and do his firebreath aoe in their face, then when the air atros came he tried to tank them all in the middle together with the ash titan... Didn't go well lol

I think I had that same tank for COA2! The tank was spinning the ash titan around in circles and I was like, WTF?

Youre supposed to spin the ash titan watch a video for vet. Tank grabs dragon two spinners of death and rotates while dps stands behind feet and healer to the side in between dps and tank.

no, not at all, you tank the ash titan so the team are behind it and you are in from, then when the atros come you taunt them and the ash titan while walking around the arena with the atros away from the team, he will slowly spin, because he is facing you as you slowly walk around the arena,, you don't go straight to the ash titan and run around him in a circle constantly so he just keeps spinning and melting the team.

What you said is the exactsame thing I did. Sure I didnt mention the first phase I guess. But its hardly slowly its like max walk speed around the outside. But if the tank was in the middle with all three lol thats pretty brutal.

Prof_Bawbag · January 2018

What's worse than fake tanks/healers or dps' that can't poke a hole through a soggy paper bag if their life depended on it, are those who hand out advice that don't actually know what the hell they're on about themselves.

As an example, we were running vRoM and after the dps died for the umpteenth time on a trash mob because he or she was running waaaaaay in front of the group, someone pipes up to tell him/her to stay with the group and let the tank do the inital pull/aggro, BUT the rock throwers should be left to last in all trash mobs. Erm, no, they can one shot and should be taken out first. Basic common sense should dictate that too. But noooooooo, he wasn't having any of that and proceeded to tell us we were useless scrubs blah, blah and even more blah.

If people are gonna hand out advice, make sure they know what they're on about and not to do it in a condescending manner. Amazing the amount of people on here that claim to hand out friendly advice, yet what you hear in game rarely matches up with that. Most are condescending gobshites and then get offended when people tell them do go shove their head up a dead bear's ass. There are some genuinely nice and helpful people, so not gonna tar everyone with the same brush. They're just harder to find.

Taleof2Cities · January 2018

This is why we make a premade group for Cradle of Shadows (or any DLC dungeon for that matter) ... instead of using the dungeon finder.

Doing that will prevent unnecessary forum rants.

DoctorESO · January 2018

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Linaleah · January 2018

Magdalina wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

they can actualy, either the system is broken or restriction is not there. had 150 cp player in spindleclutch 2

Afaik there is no restriction on vet dungeons 2? It's only dlc ones and CoA 2(which imo is overkill, that place can be soloed easily enough). At least that's what's the patch notes said.

Also while I don't like fake tanks, if it was normal you could've probably done it easily enough without a tank. Normal CoS is ridiculously easy compared to vet. It's not an excuse for not even slotting a taunt after queueing as a tank though, that's just annoying. Like c'mon, up YOUR OWN dps if nothing else by making the boss stand still...

information seems to vary on that? see few posts bellow your reply, different poster claiming that there IS a lockout for vet 2 dungeons.

honest, at this point i don't even care about cp anymore. yes. it can make a LOT of difference. it certainly makes a difference for when I'm leveling new alts - with cp distributed, its MUCH easier to quest than without. but... player skill plays more of a role. and by skill i mean ability to do weaving/perfect rotation while avoiding most crap you should be avoiding. so at this point I just tned to watch how the first few pulls go. can't really tell if the group is going to be good or bad by cp alone. although... missing food is a more decent indicator.

paallterrain148 · January 2018

I just did this on my healer with no tank on normal. I solo'ed the teleporting boss after my pug wiped the second time. I slotted inner fire, and we finished the dungeon with myself both healing and tanking.

I'd never try it on vet, but I've healed Vcoa2 with 3 dps in a pug. We wiped once to skoria on HM because someone died in the lava, twice, and we couldn't get the HM compeleted. Besides that I just slotted inner fire and pulled aggro.

When I tank for pugs, I run vigor, incase of no heals, and barrier.

Words for the wise. If your gonna pug stuff, be prepared to pull more then your weight, or take the timer cheese. I decide on the first trash group we come to. Sometimes, you just gotta leave group. Your better off doing it right away though, instead of 20 minutes in.

Fermian · January 2018

klowdy1 wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

The problem I run into is getting a fake tank that joins with someone else. If you control half of the group, you aren't getting booted. The past few times, it has been the tank and healer. Neither one doing their job, multiple wipes before the last boss, and impossible to kick. I thought you only needed 2/3 vote to kick, which I definitely had at least two times, when the other DD initiated the vote, but they never were ejected from the group.

2/3 of 4 would require 3 votes

DoctorESO · January 2018

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Niobium · January 2018

Juju_beans wrote: »

Fake tanks/fake healers have taken over most MMO's these days when it comes to pugging.
Didn't used to be this bad though. I guess player mentality has changed somewhat over the past couple of years.

There are just as many threads complaining about fake tanks and fake healers as there are threads saying the dungeons are so easy you don't need tanks or healers.

The problem lies within the community itself.

This is the logical conclusion of so many threads saying tanks and healers are useless.

Don't want fake tanks and healers? Quit saying dungeons don't need them. Otherwise all you get in Group Finder is 4 dps and then dungeons become a real nightmare.

mocap · January 2018

if i remember correctly, it isn't a leave penalty. It's a queue cooldown. So even if you finish dungeon in like 1 minute, you still need to wait 11 minutes so called "ban" before next one.

Magdalina · January 2018

Niobium wrote: »

Juju_beans wrote: »

Fake tanks/fake healers have taken over most MMO's these days when it comes to pugging.
Didn't used to be this bad though. I guess player mentality has changed somewhat over the past couple of years.

There are just as many threads complaining about fake tanks and fake healers as there are threads saying the dungeons are so easy you don't need tanks or healers.

The problem lies within the community itself.

This is the logical conclusion of so many threads saying tanks and healers are useless.

Don't want fake tanks and healers? Quit saying dungeons don't need them. Otherwise all you get in Group Finder is 4 dps and then dungeons become a real nightmare.

There actually isn't such a big logical fallacy there. First, it highly depends on the content. Things like vet dlc dungeons, let alone vet trials, are very hard to pull off without a tank(I suppose possible, for dungeons at least, but hard). So there's quite a difference between fake tanking normal Wayrest I and fake tanking vet RoM.

Second, it depends on personal preference, 4 dps is quite a different playstyle where everyone has to look out for themselves. It's definitely doable(for most content at least), it's fun, you just gotta understand what you're in for and enjoy the ride. Personally, I prefer 3 dps+tank. Third, it depends on the players - mainly, it depends on dps. If we're talking 4 30-40k+ dps who know how to not stand in the stupid, well they probably won't suffer much from not having a proper tank(nor healer). If we're talking 4 inexperienced 5k dps who have no idea about food, sets, rotations, staying out of red etc, then we're in for a whole lot of trouble in pretty much any content. Groupfinder means the latter way more often than it means the former.

Tl;dr - saying "you don't need a tank" is not untrue, it's just that context matters a LOT.

Iccotak · January 2018

people really don't get the importance of tanks.

Ermiq · January 2018

Yesterday I've seen a "fake" 640CP tank in vet Selene's Web. And there were 2 DDs: 24 lvl and 50CP. I was doing 35-70% of group DPS just with Wall of Elements and Lightning staff heavy attacks.

Tank was dying on 4th boss (with tigers). I was forced to spam Healing Springs all the time and he still was dying.

In the end he said "heal wtf". After 2 tries I said "ok, sorry guys, it's all my fault" and left the group. It's always a healer fault, remember.

SoLooney · January 2018

bad dps is worse. you wont get anything killed and wasting your time in a dungeon

them again, i never queue up in dungeon finder cause good players play with friends and the quality of players there are for the most part horrible

Ep1kMalware · January 2018

LordSemaj wrote: »

Then you're joining guilds the same way you join dungeons... randomly.

A guild is not meant to be a place of total strangers in their own private chat LFG channel. The concept of finding a guild to run dungeons with is much simpler than it sounds -- you're being encouraged to make actual friends in the game. People you play the game with. If it's hard to find people to group with in a guild you're part of then you aren't doing that at all.

That's one perspective. I see guilds as a group of strangers comming together to achieve a common goal. Beit doing dailies, quests, veteran or normal trials, or even trading. Whatever your guild's goal is, making friends is something you do along the way.