Fake tank in cradle of shadows yet I get a 10 minute ban for leaving, zos sort this out

BlanketFort · January 2018

The DLC dungeons nerfs should be undone, perhaps people would be more keen to kick those who have no intention to perform the role they queued for. Fake tanks through Dungeon Finder shouldn’t be tolerated in vet DLC dungeons. That stuff should be kept in pre-made groups, where everyone has agreed to the terms at hand.

Linaleah · January 2018

SirDopey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

they can actualy, either the system is broken or restriction is not there. had 150 cp player in spindleclutch 2

Spindleclutch isn't a DLC dungeon though. There is meant to be a higher minimum requirement on the DLC dungeons (RoM, CoS, Imperial City, Blood Root, White gold tower etc)

note the V2 in the statement I was replying to?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

In situations like this, I call the tank out and ask what they are and then if they don't change into tank gear, sometimes it takes a bit. I vote to kick.

Exactly what I did with CoS
I typed fake tank?
no reply, I was waiting for a sword and shield to come out.
Fake tank? again, no reply, Then I said "defiantly a fake tank" then one of the dps said lets let him try.
Thing is this was cos norm, while easy at 690 and most of us were 690, veli would still 1 shot everyone without a tank, validor whatever his name would still 1shot, and the boss with the multiple braziers will be all over the place.
Despite what someone said above about dungeons being faster with 4 good dps, I find they are faster when they are organized, tank with chains and inner fire, standing still so mobs get killed quick.

See, when I say call out, I mean I say "no tank?", You can easily tell who is not a take by health within 2 seconds of the dungeon, when everyone has less then 18k health. If no one says anything, I Then look at the group designations in the menu to see who queued as a tank and ask them if they are the tank. If they say yes, I go not with 17k health you are not. This then goes two ways, they either get grumpy that someone called them out and kick me or I kick them. Simple.

I would never do a dlc dungeons without a real tank and hate playing the regular ones as well.

So if it comes down to nother of us getting kicked, I then leave and then log into one of my other toons, the 15 minute penalty is per toon, not per account. There are always other people to play with.

Girl_Number8 · January 2018

Get 3 friends or be the tanky yourself.

Random is random, doesn't mean they are their for you.

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

In situations like this, I call the tank out and ask what they are and then if they don't change into tank gear, sometimes it takes a bit. I vote to kick.

Exactly what I did with CoS
I typed fake tank?
no reply, I was waiting for a sword and shield to come out.
Fake tank? again, no reply, Then I said "defiantly a fake tank" then one of the dps said lets let him try.
Thing is this was cos norm, while easy at 690 and most of us were 690, veli would still 1 shot everyone without a tank, validor whatever his name would still 1shot, and the boss with the multiple braziers will be all over the place.
Despite what someone said above about dungeons being faster with 4 good dps, I find they are faster when they are organized, tank with chains and inner fire, standing still so mobs get killed quick.

See, when I say call out, I mean I say "no tank?", You can easily tell who is not a take by health within 2 seconds of the dungeon, when everyone has less then 18k health. If no one says anything, I Then look at the group designations in the menu to see who queued as a tank and ask them if they are the tank. If they say yes, I go not with 17k health you are not. This then goes two ways, they either get grumpy that someone called them out and kick me or I kick them. Simple.

I would never do a dlc dungeons without a real tank and hate playing the regular ones as well.

So if it comes down to nother of us getting kicked, I then leave and then log into one of my other toons, the 15 minute penalty is per toon, not per account. There are always other people to play with.

Well that's pretty BS tbh.
I did a trial once, hosted a pug group, naa, got to the first boss for the healer to say the other healer is wearing heavy armour and then quit, destroying the trial for everyone else.
why can't a healer use heavy armour if he wants! The healer was actually using 5,1,1 light not heavy armour. When asked why he quit and destroyed the trial for 11 other people, his reply was "I don't play with noobs", the irony, such a noob he doesn't even consider that unconventional build are and can be viable.
Although yeah a tank can't be great at survivability and taking damage with 17k health (and tbh I didn't even watch health bar numbers as I am new to healing, not looking out for them yet) but having unconventional builds is fine. If the tank has 17k health, using an ice staff with inner fire and a self heal like dragon blood constantly, that is absolutely fine with me as long as he is doing his role. In fact I started a thread here a few weeks ago about getting kicked from a dungeon because of using a mag dk dps with sword and board. I was doing my role well, but unlike me, this guy wasn't doing his role. It was only when we got too the second statue mob that I realized there were no taunts at all.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

Girl_Number8 wrote: »

Get 3 friends or be the tanky yourself.
Random is random, doesn't mean they are their for you.

I'm a tank main, I was trying to do the dungeon as a healer to level undaunted for my healer alt, plus it's nice to learn all the dungeon in all the roles so you get a broader understanding of how to do all roles better.

DoctorESO wrote: »

Tetrafy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Sometimes you just get a terrible group. Requeue and you should have better luck next time.

Ohh yeah, we had darkshade 2 yesterday and the "tank" with a 2h sword died TWICE on the first trash mob, I just stuck around and healed until the dps killed the mob, which took forever too, said politely in chat, "tank" dies twice on first trash mob, nope i'm out.
What was just as funny is that the replacement tank, who was a tank, didn't understand the mechanics, on the netch he just tried to take the untauntable randomly teleporting netch to the other side of the area, while completely ignoring all the other netches that was killing the dps. I was laughing irl.
Because I am an experienced tank main, I know when the tank is good, or bad, so I can critique logically. We got the dungeon done, but it was a lot harder than it should have been. I had to explain mechs to him.
Another not so very good tank in CoA2, was just terrible, but the last straw was after me explaining to him that tanks arent supposed to bring the damage to the team, we got to the ash titan and he was doing donuts around it killing the dps by making it turn around and do his firebreath aoe in their face, then when the air atros came he tried to tank them all in the middle together with the ash titan... Didn't go well lol

I think I had that same tank for COA2! The tank was spinning the ash titan around in circles and I was like, WTF?

Youre supposed to spin the ash titan watch a video for vet. Tank grabs dragon two spinners of death and rotates while dps stands behind feet and healer to the side in between dps and tank.

In the run I was in, the tank didn't grab the two spinners.

The run I was in he grabbed the spinners and tried to tank all 3 in the middle together lol

Nemesis7884 · January 2018

honestly at the same time i see often also a lot of high cp people that immediatly leave the group if other players aren't cp 690 or if they see a tank with an ice staff or something like that

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

In situations like this, I call the tank out and ask what they are and then if they don't change into tank gear, sometimes it takes a bit. I vote to kick.

Exactly what I did with CoS
I typed fake tank?
no reply, I was waiting for a sword and shield to come out.
Fake tank? again, no reply, Then I said "defiantly a fake tank" then one of the dps said lets let him try.
Thing is this was cos norm, while easy at 690 and most of us were 690, veli would still 1 shot everyone without a tank, validor whatever his name would still 1shot, and the boss with the multiple braziers will be all over the place.
Despite what someone said above about dungeons being faster with 4 good dps, I find they are faster when they are organized, tank with chains and inner fire, standing still so mobs get killed quick.

See, when I say call out, I mean I say "no tank?", You can easily tell who is not a take by health within 2 seconds of the dungeon, when everyone has less then 18k health. If no one says anything, I Then look at the group designations in the menu to see who queued as a tank and ask them if they are the tank. If they say yes, I go not with 17k health you are not. This then goes two ways, they either get grumpy that someone called them out and kick me or I kick them. Simple.

I would never do a dlc dungeons without a real tank and hate playing the regular ones as well.

So if it comes down to nother of us getting kicked, I then leave and then log into one of my other toons, the 15 minute penalty is per toon, not per account. There are always other people to play with.

Well that's pretty BS tbh.
I did a trial once, hosted a pug group, naa, got to the first boss for the healer to say the other healer is wearing heavy armour and then quit, destroying the trial for everyone else.
why can't a healer use heavy armour if he wants! The healer was actually using 5,1,1 light not heavy armour. When asked why he quit and destroyed the trial for 11 other people, his reply was "I don't play with noobs", the irony, such a noob he doesn't even consider that unconventional build are and can be viable.
Although yeah a tank can't be great at survivability and taking damage with 17k health (and tbh I didn't even watch health bar numbers as I am new to healing, not looking out for them yet) but having unconventional builds is fine. If the tank has 17k health, using an ice staff with inner fire and a self heal like dragon blood constantly, that is absolutely fine with me as long as he is doing his role. In fact I started a thread here a few weeks ago about getting kicked from a dungeon because of using a mag dk dps with sword and board. I was doing my role well, but unlike me, this guy wasn't doing his role. It was only when we got too the second statue mob that I realized there were no taunts at all.

K.

PrayingSeraph · January 2018

Honestly despite being stuck with bad pug groups before and getting annoyed...I step back and remember that the person not fulfilling their role may be new to the role, and the only way for them to get better is by experience. I know way too many new players who feel anxious doing group content because they are afraid other players will be rude/harsh to them.

TheDarkShadow · January 2018

The mighty tank with 30k resist and 22k health in vCoS today

Bhaal5 · January 2018

Solution
-Use your 5 guilds instead of group finder
-once got your group together, then use the finder for the buff
-promblem solved,
*if your 5 guilds cant provide this, then you need better guilds.
If you cant find better, Pull ya finger out and start your own guild for this purpose.

Eso is a mmo NOT skyrim with benfits

RavenSworn · January 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

In situations like this, I call the tank out and ask what they are and then if they don't change into tank gear, sometimes it takes a bit. I vote to kick.

Exactly what I did with CoS
I typed fake tank?
no reply, I was waiting for a sword and shield to come out.
Fake tank? again, no reply, Then I said "defiantly a fake tank" then one of the dps said lets let him try.
Thing is this was cos norm, while easy at 690 and most of us were 690, veli would still 1 shot everyone without a tank, validor whatever his name would still 1shot, and the boss with the multiple braziers will be all over the place.
Despite what someone said above about dungeons being faster with 4 good dps, I find they are faster when they are organized, tank with chains and inner fire, standing still so mobs get killed quick.

See, when I say call out, I mean I say "no tank?", You can easily tell who is not a take by health within 2 seconds of the dungeon, when everyone has less then 18k health. If no one says anything, I Then look at the group designations in the menu to see who queued as a tank and ask them if they are the tank. If they say yes, I go not with 17k health you are not. This then goes two ways, they either get grumpy that someone called them out and kick me or I kick them. Simple.

I would never do a dlc dungeons without a real tank and hate playing the regular ones as well.

So if it comes down to nother of us getting kicked, I then leave and then log into one of my other toons, the 15 minute penalty is per toon, not per account. There are always other people to play with.

I agree with this.

Ep1kMalware · January 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

And what's zos going to do over civil issues? Either run it with pugs and accept the fact most casuals don't care if you complete the du geon not, or become an elitist and run it with a reliable group of friends.

It's pretty much a black and white decision. Sometimes I pug a dlc dungeon and end up with what I can only assume are 3 tanks. I'm not thrilled that 3 *** resulted in a 15 minute que ban, but I accepted that outcome when I rolled the dice, as did yourself.

Ratzkifal · January 2018

Shouldn't be too hard to implement skill checks. "You can't select tank if you have no taunt skill equiped" (sorry Tormentor set). Same for healing.

Ep1kMalware · January 2018

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Shouldn't be too hard to implement skill checks. "You can't select tank if you have no taunt skill equiped" (sorry Tormentor set). Same for healing.

Disagree, sometimes it's nice to group up with friends and add another dps instead of a healer or tank. Those types of restrictions are too damning. An official statement from zos telling op to stop whining about his rng group, and maybe a statement for those special types of people that ruin lfg tool for everybody could get called out and shamed. But that's never going to happen.

Leaving a group voluntarily shouldn't result in a ban, wheras getting kicked by 3 other people often warrants such action. The ban should start upon kicking the player, not entering the dungeon. Also a 5 minute mute would pair nicely with those bans too, considering players that usually ruin groups for others often times become verbally beligerent and abusive when removed forcefuly from a group activity.

Since that will never happenm my vote is just make the most of it, most groups are decent, but you que knowing full well you might get stuck with trash for teamates every once in a while.

Edit: I'm strongly opposed to 15 minite bans against voluntarily leaving a group by choice. Sometimes it can take a significant amount of time to get into the dungeon in the first place. having to leave because of a group failure is disheartening enough.

Septimus_Magna · January 2018

I had the same thing yesterday, wanted to tank the vet pledges but the dps was so terrible. It literally took a couple minutes to clear to adds before the first boss in Eldenhollow I. Some ppl are just not made for vet content I guess..

troomar · January 2018

The game says "play as you want", so there is no need to restrict anyone from any content. It would only lead to separation - new inexperienced people would be stuck forever in low-tier dungeons with no way to get to the DLC hardcore ones and the game would slowly die.

Yes, there are bad players, new and inexperienced players, trolls, lazy and rude people. Some of them might improve, some of them won't. But you can't change that. No skill checks, no restrictions will help.

But it could be done differently. Everyone is scaled to CP 160, so the lack of character strengths (missing skills, attributes etc) is mitigated. Why the dungeon can't be scaled to the party performance as well? Every time someone dies, all stats of all mobs in the dungeon would be lowered (less HP, less damage done, less resistances, less speed, whatever...). On the other hand, all drop changes would be lowered too every time someone dies. So people would be actually rewarded for perfect runs (100% drop chance for monster helmets, motifs etc.) and would be motivated to improve themselves. And the bad or inexperienced parties would still be able to finish the dungeon, but unfortunately, wouldn't get much reward.

Beardimus · January 2018

Was this on normal or vet. As on normal it really doesn't matter, they are right with good DPS you can make it happen.

klowdy1 · January 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

The problem I run into is getting a fake tank that joins with someone else. If you control half of the group, you aren't getting booted. The past few times, it has been the tank and healer. Neither one doing their job, multiple wipes before the last boss, and impossible to kick. I thought you only needed 2/3 vote to kick, which I definitely had at least two times, when the other DD initiated the vote, but they never were ejected from the group.

Ep1kMalware · January 2018

troomar wrote: »

The game says "play as you want", so there is no need to restrict anyone from any content. It would only lead to separation - new inexperienced people would be stuck forever in low-tier dungeons with no way to get to the DLC hardcore ones and the game would slowly die.

Yes, there are bad players, new and inexperienced players, trolls, lazy and rude people. Some of them might improve, some of them won't. But you can't change that. No skill checks, no restrictions will help.

But it could be done differently. Everyone is scaled to CP 160, so the lack of character strengths (missing skills, attributes etc) is mitigated. Why the dungeon can't be scaled to the party performance as well? Every time someone dies, all stats of all mobs in the dungeon would be lowered (less HP, less damage done, less resistances, less speed, whatever...). On the other hand, all drop changes would be lowered too every time someone dies. So people would be actually rewarded for perfect runs (100% drop chance for monster helmets, motifs etc.) and would be motivated to improve themselves. And the bad or inexperienced parties would still be able to finish the dungeon, but unfortunately, wouldn't get much reward.

Play how you want doesn't mean be a selfish ***. Neither does 'its a free'. country mean you can steal or incite fights with your words. Idc if you roleplay or not, but when you que up for vet mazzatun I expect you to do your damn job. there's so many ways to do decent dps/set up utility classes that all anyone is really asking is to not *** it up on purpose. When you get done with the dungeon, you can go right on back to roleplaying idgaf.

Being selfish and inconsiderate is still being selfish and inconsiderate. How far do *I* have to participate in *your* immersion? Group dungeons are group, meaning not yours, not mine, but the groups instance. If you're failing the group and making it a miserable experience you can leave, or be forced to leave. =.-

Magdalina · January 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

they can actualy, either the system is broken or restriction is not there. had 150 cp player in spindleclutch 2

Afaik there is no restriction on vet dungeons 2? It's only dlc ones and CoA 2(which imo is overkill, that place can be soloed easily enough). At least that's what's the patch notes said.

Also while I don't like fake tanks, if it was normal you could've probably done it easily enough without a tank. Normal CoS is ridiculously easy compared to vet. It's not an excuse for not even slotting a taunt after queueing as a tank though, that's just annoying. Like c'mon, up YOUR OWN dps if nothing else by making the boss stand still...

Stinkyremy · January 2018

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Honestly despite being stuck with bad pig groups before and getting annoyed...I step back and remember that the person not fulfilling their role may be new to the role, and the only way for them to get better is by experience. I know way too many new players who feel anxious doing group content because they are afraid other players will be rude/harsh to them.

This is a valid point, but you obviously know a cp690 dps taking the tank role to queue faster when you see one, they are much different from a cp 160 tank trying but failing.

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

The mighty tank with 30k resist and 22k health in vCoS today

I remember being 300ish cp and *** cos and his attacks did one shot me, he hits so hard. I just got used to rolling his swirly attack, now I just block his hits no probs

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Shouldn't be too hard to implement skill checks. "You can't select tank if you have no taunt skill equiped" (sorry Tormentor set). Same for healing.

It should be queue with only 1 role, end of, no 1 player can do every role efficiently, then at least you will know that your tank queued as a tank. Of course these fake tanks would ratehr be dps, they just queue as all roles becaue dps queue is long as dps are everywhere.

Magdalina · January 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

It should be queue with only 1 role, end of, no 1 player can do every role efficiently, then at least you will know that your tank queued as a tank. Of course these fake tanks would ratehr be dps, they just queue as all roles becaue dps queue is long as dps are everywhere.

That'd help with nothing. Instead of queueing as dps/tanks they'd just queue for tanks then whereas people legitimately able to do several roles would be forced into only one. If by "efficiently" you mean 100% optimized, then no, you need different races, cp, attribute points etc for perfect tank/dps/healer, but if you aren't competing for #1 spot in the leaderboards it's extremely easy for a magicka dps to swap to a healer, for example - just swap the gear. It's also doable for other roles.

Tbh I'm not sure if there's much that could be done about fake roles...disable queueing as tank without a taunt slotted/healer without a heal slotted? That would help but not by much. Perhaps introduce "role rating" which is 0 when you start out and then your dungeon groupmates give you a mark ranging from -10 to 10, and once it goes too far into negatives...well, I dunno, perhaps disable using groupfinder for a while? That could potentially be abused though.

Huyen · January 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

The lockout till cp160 is only for the II dugeons and DLC. The others are instantly unlocked when hitting cp1.

Stratti · January 2018

I cannot stand those players who randomly leave at the beginning before even seeing what’s up. This happens especially in tough vets like Mazza. Fact is you left early then complained about it instead of addressing it with the group.

Deal with it, working as intended.

ihazzit · January 2018

[/quote]

...I expect you to do your damn job. [/quote]

"It is folly to expect men to do all that they may reasonably be expected to do. " - Richard Whately

I think that should be added to the TOS.

LordSemaj · January 2018

Huyen wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

The lockout till cp160 is only for the II dugeons and DLC. The others are instantly unlocked when hitting cp1.

To be specific, the game used to have levels. The dungeons unlock according to the level they were balanced for.

Zone 1 dungeons: level 10
Zone 2 dungeons: level 17
Zone 3 dungeons: level 24
Zone 4 dungeons: level 31
Zone 5 dungeons: level 38
Vaults of Madness: level 45

Originally the tier 2 dungeons WERE the veteran dungeons for those dungeons because you can't send level 50 players through a level 10 dungeon. So Banished Cells 2 would be the level 50 version of the dungeon with harder boss mechanics. Vaults of Madness, being already hard, would end up being the top tier content on veteran.

Then they switched things up and made the veteran dungeons into 2s and gave them veteran dungeons of their own that scaled up to higher Veteran ranks, which were also a thing. Then at VR16 they stopped doing this with the DLC dungeons being the last ones to release under the VR system. They converted everything to CP and that's where our CP 160 cap comes from. So the veteran and DLC dungeons also unlock at the CP level they were originally designed for.

That's why if someone is queued for a certain dungeon, they aren't too low level to do it. They're at the appropriate level for the content. What they might be is poorly geared and suffering from a lack of dungeon experience (probably due all those people kicking them from groups).

cwells74ub17_ESO · January 2018

An option that might be helpful with games that had group finders would be a blacklist.