Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're planning to make Battlegrounds no-CP for all levels in Update 17 (the next big update).

This game has some great customization. You can get stats from gear, food, champion points, etc. However what that means for me is that I get a portion of my build from Champion points (i.e. Stam Regen, increased damage, etc) and my gear and food etc are all built around the finished bonuses.

When you remove champion points you aren't removing a bit off the top, you are removing one leg from a three legged table! It all falls apart. For me to be able to function in the same way I do in any other content without champion points, I would have to completely re-do all of my gear sets, food setups, potions, etc.

Not going to happen. Champion points do not provide equal increases across all character stats. They become an integral part of the advanced character stats and performance. This can't just be removed without completely changing the ability of certain builds to perform.

NOT THOUGHT OUT WELL AT ALL!

#nomorebattlegrounds

This is exactly what this change intends to do though. CPs enable builds that are very unhealthy for a fast-paced objective based pvp experience. I know this must frustrate you, but you just can't win a battleground these days when your team's average CP is 200 below than your enemies'. After lvl50 without CP, you can expect everyone to be on the same page in term of stats, which makes skills (and the theory behind your build) just so much more important. It's just more fair.

ManDraKE wrote: »

NoCP gameplay is really bad and lacks variety, i used to like nonCP before the changes to sustain, but now is hands down the most boring PvP experience you can get, specially if you don't have a premade group, trying to hold your own vs a team in nonCP is pointless. One dude with cost increase posions is going to make your life imposible, plus having to have specific nonCP builds for each character is a big inconvience.

Is amazing that ZoS just went for nonCP because a couple of dudes cried about it, i hardly belive that more than 10% of the PvP population likes nonCP in the game current state. Have fun playing in empty queues going agaisnt the same stacked team over and over again.
I wish they enabled separated queues for nonCP and CP so we can see the numbers and end this lie of "everyone likes nonCP"

Nonsense, CP has no place in BG. It's meant to be fast paced action.it was before, CP landed and rekt it. Less fun for 99% of people bar troll tanky builds

Comments like 'Trying to hold your own against a team' prove the point. That has no place in BG. That is the most boring experience I'm afraid, tanky CP crutch hero's slowing the action.

Sure no cp is is less popular in Cyrodiil, this isn't Cyrodiil. And in fact my eyes were opened how much better no CP is thru playing it in BG originally and since then have played now in No CP campaigns.

But my point is no CP suits BG.

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're planning to make Battlegrounds no-CP for all levels in Update 17 (the next big update).

This game has some great customization. You can get stats from gear, food, champion points, etc. However what that means for me is that I get a portion of my build from Champion points (i.e. Stam Regen, increased damage, etc) and my gear and food etc are all built around the finished bonuses.

When you remove champion points you aren't removing a bit off the top, you are removing one leg from a three legged table! It all falls apart. For me to be able to function in the same way I do in any other content without champion points, I would have to completely re-do all of my gear sets, food setups, potions, etc.

Not going to happen. Champion points do not provide equal increases across all character stats. They become an integral part of the advanced character stats and performance. This can't just be removed without completely changing the ability of certain builds to perform.

NOT THOUGHT OUT WELL AT ALL!

#nomorebattlegrounds

This is exactly what this change intends to do though. CPs enable builds that are very unhealthy for a fast-paced objective based pvp experience. I know this must frustrate you, but you just can't win a battleground these days when your team's average CP is 200 below than your enemies'. After lvl50 without CP, you can expect everyone to be on the same page in term of stats, which makes skills (and the theory behind your build) just so much more important. It's just more fair.

There is NOTHING unfair about CP. Any player is free to grind CP if they need more, and they can do it solo, without help and at their own pace. Grinding CP is one of the simplest and most straightforward activities in the game. Compare this to the obstacles and challenges presented by the existence of elite pre-made groups or BIS gear like the Perfect Asylum staff that can only her farmed by a handful of guilds. Overcoming THOSE challenges is not simple or easy at all.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're planning to make Battlegrounds no-CP for all levels in Update 17 (the next big update).

This game has some great customization. You can get stats from gear, food, champion points, etc. However what that means for me is that I get a portion of my build from Champion points (i.e. Stam Regen, increased damage, etc) and my gear and food etc are all built around the finished bonuses.

When you remove champion points you aren't removing a bit off the top, you are removing one leg from a three legged table! It all falls apart. For me to be able to function in the same way I do in any other content without champion points, I would have to completely re-do all of my gear sets, food setups, potions, etc.

Not going to happen. Champion points do not provide equal increases across all character stats. They become an integral part of the advanced character stats and performance. This can't just be removed without completely changing the ability of certain builds to perform.

NOT THOUGHT OUT WELL AT ALL!

#nomorebattlegrounds

This is exactly what this change intends to do though. CPs enable builds that are very unhealthy for a fast-paced objective based pvp experience. I know this must frustrate you, but you just can't win a battleground these days when your team's average CP is 200 below than your enemies'. After lvl50 without CP, you can expect everyone to be on the same page in term of stats, which makes skills (and the theory behind your build) just so much more important. It's just more fair.

There is NOTHING unfair about CP. Any player is free to grind CP if they need more, and they can do it solo, without help and at their own pace. Grinding CP is one of the simplest and most straightforward activities in the game. Compare this to the obstacles and challenges presented by the existence of elite pre-made groups or BIS gear like the Perfect Asylum staff that can only her farmed by a handful of guilds. Overcoming THOSE challenges is not simple or easy at all.

While yes, hypothetically everyone is able to grind their asses off to reach 690CP, it is unfair to players, who reached lvl50 but not 690CP, who also enjoy small scale pvp. They can't go back into the queue for people below lvl50 and they get stomped in BGs until they reach a decent number of CPs. So you want to deny them from winning battlegrounds until then and call this fair? It's the same with people between 160CP and 300CP who get disappointed that although they reached the max level, their stats aren't high enough to do certain vet dungeons. While this works in pve as dungeons exist on normal difficulty, this doesn't work for pvp UNLESS you remove CP and put everyone on the same page.

I agree with you about the premade groups. That is an issue that also needs to be addressed, but perhaps it resolves itself with the introduction of a ranked queue. Balance is a complicated thing and testing any specific factor requires the others to stay constant to get significant results. So only one change at a time, then we (or ZOS for that matter) can figure out what is best for BGs.

About the BIS gear though, I disagree again. Yes, not everyone can get BIS gear, since some people lack the real life money to buy DLCs for example, but apart from the DLC Dungeon sets, MA and Asylum weapons everyone can still get those with gold. The rest, like MA, AS and Master weapons, are a test of skill again. Skill should be rewarded, not (as much) the time you put into the game (it should be factor but skill should be more dominant) - at least in pvp.

.

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're planning to make Battlegrounds no-CP for all levels in Update 17 (the next big update).

This game has some great customization. You can get stats from gear, food, champion points, etc. However what that means for me is that I get a portion of my build from Champion points (i.e. Stam Regen, increased damage, etc) and my gear and food etc are all built around the finished bonuses.

When you remove champion points you aren't removing a bit off the top, you are removing one leg from a three legged table! It all falls apart. For me to be able to function in the same way I do in any other content without champion points, I would have to completely re-do all of my gear sets, food setups, potions, etc.

Not going to happen. Champion points do not provide equal increases across all character stats. They become an integral part of the advanced character stats and performance. This can't just be removed without completely changing the ability of certain builds to perform.

NOT THOUGHT OUT WELL AT ALL!

#nomorebattlegrounds

This is exactly what this change intends to do though. CPs enable builds that are very unhealthy for a fast-paced objective based pvp experience. I know this must frustrate you, but you just can't win a battleground these days when your team's average CP is 200 below than your enemies'. After lvl50 without CP, you can expect everyone to be on the same page in term of stats, which makes skills (and the theory behind your build) just so much more important. It's just more fair.

There is NOTHING unfair about CP. Any player is free to grind CP if they need more, and they can do it solo, without help and at their own pace. Grinding CP is one of the simplest and most straightforward activities in the game. Compare this to the obstacles and challenges presented by the existence of elite pre-made groups or BIS gear like the Perfect Asylum staff that can only her farmed by a handful of guilds. Overcoming THOSE challenges is not simple or easy at all.

While yes, hypothetically everyone is able to grind their asses off to reach 690CP, it is unfair to players, who reached lvl50 but not 690CP, who also enjoy small scale pvp. They can't go back into the queue for people below lvl50 and they get stomped in BGs until they reach a decent number of CPs. So you want to deny them from winning battlegrounds until then and call this fair? It's the same with people between 160CP and 300CP who get disappointed that although they reached the max level, their stats aren't high enough to do certain vet dungeons. While this works in pve as dungeons exist on normal difficulty, this doesn't work for pvp UNLESS you remove CP and put everyone on the same page.

I agree with you about the premade groups. That is an issue that also needs to be addressed, but perhaps it resolves itself with the introduction of a ranked queue. Balance is a complicated thing and testing any specific factor requires the others to stay constant to get significant results. So only one change at a time, then we (or ZOS for that matter) can figure out what is best for BGs.

About the BIS gear though, I disagree again. Yes, not everyone can get BIS gear, since some people lack the real life money to buy DLCs for example, but apart from the DLC Dungeon sets, MA and Asylum weapons everyone can still get those with gold. The rest, like MA, AS and Master weapons, are a test of skill again. Skill should be rewarded, not (as much) the time you put into the game (it should be factor but skill should be more dominant) - at least in pvp.

I understand everything you are saying, I just disagree with your judgement that this state of affairs is "unfair". This is an MMORPG, not a game of chess or gin rummy. The game is designed to be fair in the sense that we all start the game the same way: at the character creation screen. Everything that happens after that moment, every choice you make and action you take, it is all up to YOU. It's not anybody else's problem that you decided to spend more time walking your dog or whatever instead of leveling up. Make no mistake... CP690 is the max level in this game NOT Level 50.

I'm glad you mentioned PvE, because there are similar problems in PvE. It is really difficult to enjoy end-game content like Vet Dungeons and Trials until you have leveled up all the way to CP690. Some groups don't even want to screw around with anybody who is less than CP500. When I started playing ESO seriously, the max level was VR12 and it took months to reach. I didn't run to the forums looking for a nerf, I asked around for the best grind spots and got to work! I have little sympathy for anyone who wants to skip this work and get to max power level for free.

It's not about you, it's about the MFing 3 100 CP teammates you get paired with.

G F L winning at all

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Emma_Overload wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We're planning to make Battlegrounds no-CP for all levels in Update 17 (the next big update).

This game has some great customization. You can get stats from gear, food, champion points, etc. However what that means for me is that I get a portion of my build from Champion points (i.e. Stam Regen, increased damage, etc) and my gear and food etc are all built around the finished bonuses.

When you remove champion points you aren't removing a bit off the top, you are removing one leg from a three legged table! It all falls apart. For me to be able to function in the same way I do in any other content without champion points, I would have to completely re-do all of my gear sets, food setups, potions, etc.

Not going to happen. Champion points do not provide equal increases across all character stats. They become an integral part of the advanced character stats and performance. This can't just be removed without completely changing the ability of certain builds to perform.

NOT THOUGHT OUT WELL AT ALL!

#nomorebattlegrounds

This is exactly what this change intends to do though. CPs enable builds that are very unhealthy for a fast-paced objective based pvp experience. I know this must frustrate you, but you just can't win a battleground these days when your team's average CP is 200 below than your enemies'. After lvl50 without CP, you can expect everyone to be on the same page in term of stats, which makes skills (and the theory behind your build) just so much more important. It's just more fair.

There is NOTHING unfair about CP. Any player is free to grind CP if they need more, and they can do it solo, without help and at their own pace. Grinding CP is one of the simplest and most straightforward activities in the game. Compare this to the obstacles and challenges presented by the existence of elite pre-made groups or BIS gear like the Perfect Asylum staff that can only her farmed by a handful of guilds. Overcoming THOSE challenges is not simple or easy at all.

While yes, hypothetically everyone is able to grind their asses off to reach 690CP, it is unfair to players, who reached lvl50 but not 690CP, who also enjoy small scale pvp. They can't go back into the queue for people below lvl50 and they get stomped in BGs until they reach a decent number of CPs. So you want to deny them from winning battlegrounds until then and call this fair? It's the same with people between 160CP and 300CP who get disappointed that although they reached the max level, their stats aren't high enough to do certain vet dungeons. While this works in pve as dungeons exist on normal difficulty, this doesn't work for pvp UNLESS you remove CP and put everyone on the same page.

I agree with you about the premade groups. That is an issue that also needs to be addressed, but perhaps it resolves itself with the introduction of a ranked queue. Balance is a complicated thing and testing any specific factor requires the others to stay constant to get significant results. So only one change at a time, then we (or ZOS for that matter) can figure out what is best for BGs.

About the BIS gear though, I disagree again. Yes, not everyone can get BIS gear, since some people lack the real life money to buy DLCs for example, but apart from the DLC Dungeon sets, MA and Asylum weapons everyone can still get those with gold. The rest, like MA, AS and Master weapons, are a test of skill again. Skill should be rewarded, not (as much) the time you put into the game (it should be factor but skill should be more dominant) - at least in pvp.

I understand everything you are saying, I just disagree with your judgement that this state of affairs is "unfair". This is an MMORPG, not a game of chess or gin rummy. The game is designed to be fair in the sense that we all start the game the same way: at the character creation screen. Everything that happens after that moment, every choice you make and action you take, it is all up to YOU. It's not anybody else's problem that you decided to spend more time walking your dog or whatever instead of leveling up. Make no mistake... CP690 is the max level in this game NOT Level 50.

I'm glad you mentioned PvE, because there are similar problems in PvE. It is really difficult to enjoy end-game content like Vet Dungeons and Trials until you have leveled up all the way to CP690. Some groups don't even want to screw around with anybody who is less than CP500. When I started playing ESO seriously, the max level was VR12 and it took months to reach. I didn't run to the forums looking for a nerf, I asked around for the best grind spots and got to work! I have little sympathy for anyone who wants to skip this work and get to max power level for free.

Why have battlegrounds for players before lvl50 anyway? 690CP is max level after all. If you think people with lvl50 an few CP are wasting their time if they are doing anything but leveling, then so are players below lvl50. Really not anybody else's problem, right? Perhaps we should reintroduce CP to Cyrodiil below lvl50 too then (if we don't remove it that is)? Following that logic CP caps are unnecessary too because it's your own fault if you don't grind to 1500CP when others do.
Having such a large gap between new players and old players is not good and just discourages people from trying out anything with competitive nature (pvp).

ManDraKE wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Good but I afraid already depopulated bg will become even more empty.

ofc they will. NonCP is only popular in the forums lol

LOLOL yep. ;/

I agree that BGs are better without CP, but I just BALK at the idea.

I want the end-game progression mechanic to be vibrant and useful everywhere, and this reversion feels like an admission that it's not.

The Champion Point system NEEDS some serious care and retooling, IMHO.

bubbygink wrote: »

I have ~900 CP. It's totally disingenerous to say I "spent 2.5 years grinding" that. I just played the game and the CP came over time. I didn't put in any kind of hard/special work to earn it. But my years of experience have made me a good player who has a great knowledge about the game. When I win a BG, it should be because of that - because those hours and hours I have played made me a master of my class and game mechanics. It should not be because I have 300 CP more than my oponent. BGs are the one place for competitive PvP and I want to fight people on an even playing field. High CP people should not be afraid to fight low CP people on an even playing field. If you have that much more CP then you should also have that much more experience. Win with experience, not with some artificial advantage via CP. Let everyone, including new players, be on an even playing field. I want the challenge. Make it a fair fight. Remove CP from BGs.

Well said, look forward to playing again soon! Can’t wait to get back in to BGs man.

DDemon wrote: »

800+ cp here and I too prefer no CP bg/pvp.

Why not just open up BG to everyone and add an option for CP BG and no cp BG.

Then, for the people who purchased the expansion and feel unhappy about this, give them something extra in return, maybe a free mount/house/crowns? Just to name a few options.

Because ZOS feels like the queue times are too long if they split the queue. After they returned no-CP perhaps they'll consider testing having two queues. At least that's what I would hope.