Fake tank in cradle of shadows yet I get a 10 minute ban for leaving, zos sort this out

Stinkyremy · January 2018

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Meld777 · January 2018

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

LadyNalcarya · January 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

Smmokkee · January 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

Lol. Seriously?

Stinkyremy · January 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

This is untrue, i have seen many cp -100 in vet dungeons, plus many -160, many of them, a cp 24 the other day.
idk whether they were in a group and I backfilled through group finder but that is defiantly untrue

Meld777 wrote: »

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

Seriously!
I voted to kick, voted to kick many times, voted to kicj a fake tank and they kicked me instead, voted to kick a fake tank and they said he is fine, we don't need a tank just to get to the end of wayrest sewers 1 and get constantly wiped by her whirlwind spin, we didn't even get close to her second phase.
As you could imagine, this fake tank wasn't just taunting, blocking and healer, me healing through her dam, he was running around, away from her, then she goes for someone else.
We didn't last 30 seconds. I had to beg a guildie to just tank her and I dps/heal and the other dps killed her normally without dying (1 dps left he was soo vexxed)

Linaleah · January 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

they can actualy, either the system is broken or restriction is not there. had 150 cp player in spindleclutch 2

Rohamad_Ali · January 2018

This has never been improved by ZoS since its release . While I agree a tool to check stats for proper role selection would be optimal to avoid this pain point , I think we both know not to hold our breath waiting and just run with guild members when ever possible .

Ruckly · January 2018

Fake dps is worse. A fake tank you can try to make things work eventually they will get the idea everyone is wiping because of them. Fake dps they hang around like a fart stuck in a cushion. You know right away they won't have the dps to knock down the last boss and they linger and eventually some one says "we don't have the dps". This situation is even worse when you're heals and the dps not only can't dps but they stand in everything so you are stuck healing with no GCDs to contribute to dps.

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Sometimes you just get a terrible group. Requeue and you should have better luck next time.

Ohh yeah, we had darkshade 2 yesterday and the "tank" with a 2h sword died TWICE on the first trash mob, I just stuck around and healed until the dps killed the mob, which took forever too, said politely in chat, "tank" dies twice on first trash mob, nope i'm out.
What was just as funny is that the replacement tank, who was a tank, didn't understand the mechanics, on the netch he just tried to take the untauntable randomly teleporting netch to the other side of the area, while completely ignoring all the other netches that was killing the dps. I was laughing irl.
Because I am an experienced tank main, I know when the tank is good, or bad, so I can critique logically. We got the dungeon done, but it was a lot harder than it should have been. I had to explain mechs to him.
Another not so very good tank in CoA2, was just terrible, but the last straw was after me explaining to him that tanks arent supposed to bring the damage to the team, we got to the ash titan and he was doing donuts around it killing the dps by making it turn around and do his firebreath aoe in their face, then when the air atros came he tried to tank them all in the middle together with the ash titan... Didn't go well lol

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

KingYogi415 · January 2018

I have sat in place and told the group to kick me b4.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Sometimes you just get a terrible group. Requeue and you should have better luck next time.

Ohh yeah, we had darkshade 2 yesterday and the "tank" with a 2h sword died TWICE on the first trash mob, I just stuck around and healed until the dps killed the mob, which took forever too, said politely in chat, "tank" dies twice on first trash mob, nope i'm out.
What was just as funny is that the replacement tank, who was a tank, didn't understand the mechanics, on the netch he just tried to take the untauntable randomly teleporting netch to the other side of the area, while completely ignoring all the other netches that was killing the dps. I was laughing irl.
Because I am an experienced tank main, I know when the tank is good, or bad, so I can critique logically. We got the dungeon done, but it was a lot harder than it should have been. I had to explain mechs to him.
Another not so very good tank in CoA2, was just terrible, but the last straw was after me explaining to him that tanks arent supposed to bring the damage to the team, we got to the ash titan and he was doing donuts around it killing the dps by making it turn around and do his firebreath aoe in their face, then when the air atros came he tried to tank them all in the middle together with the ash titan... Didn't go well lol

I think I had that same tank for COA2! The tank was spinning the ash titan around in circles and I was like, WTF?

EU PS4?

Stinkyremy · January 2018

KingYogi415 wrote: »

I have sat in place and told the group to kick me b4.

I did the same today and they didn't kick me lol

LordSemaj · January 2018

Stinkyremy wrote: »

Ohh yeah, we had darkshade 2 yesterday and the "tank" with a 2h sword died TWICE on the first trash mob, I just stuck around and healed until the dps killed the mob, which took forever too, said politely in chat, "tank" dies twice on first trash mob, nope i'm out.
What was just as funny is that the replacement tank, who was a tank, didn't understand the mechanics, on the netch he just tried to take the untauntable randomly teleporting netch to the other side of the area, while completely ignoring all the other netches that was killing the dps. I was laughing irl.
Because I am an experienced tank main, I know when the tank is good, or bad, so I can critique logically. We got the dungeon done, but it was a lot harder than it should have been. I had to explain mechs to him.
Another not so very good tank in CoA2, was just terrible, but the last straw was after me explaining to him that tanks arent supposed to bring the damage to the team, we got to the ash titan and he was doing donuts around it killing the dps by making it turn around and do his firebreath aoe in their face, then when the air atros came he tried to tank them all in the middle together with the ash titan... Didn't go well lol

An inexperienced tank who is only going to learn by doing, experiencing, practicing doesn't understand a mechanic and you had to explain it to him? Welcome to MMOs. A 2hander trying to tank and failing is a reason to get fired and replaced, not because he's using a 2hander or not a real tank but because he's failing to perform the role that he agreed to perform when queuing. A tank that blasts the dps with firebreath may be avoiding damage himself without comprehending that the mobs do a cone AOE, all of which could have been explained rationally. The first thing I do when running on an alt and notice that the tank doesn't seem too familiar with the dungeon is explain each encounter, starting with what not to do. If you don't want that burden then either allow them to learn through failure, tank the boss yourself, queue with a premade of your best friends that are know every dungeon mechanic by heart, or abandon the group and enjoy your deserter penalty.

GOY - if someone is less experienced than you, they are simply you six months ago. What makes these runs painful is watching people bicker in chat instead of figuring out how to work as a team given what RNG has assigned us. I've had bad runs the same as anyone which is why I've taken to slotting Barrier as one of my ultimates when people are low CP. When things go wrong, I can step in as both tank AND healer while burning the boss down with my DPS. Loss of an ultimate slot totally worth preventing a wipe and avoiding the drama players like this bring by ragequitting.

SirDopey · January 2018

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

they can actualy, either the system is broken or restriction is not there. had 150 cp player in spindleclutch 2

Spindleclutch isn't a DLC dungeon though. There is meant to be a higher minimum requirement on the DLC dungeons (RoM, CoS, Imperial City, Blood Root, White gold tower etc)

LordSemaj · January 2018

SirDopey wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Actually you cant do vet dlc dungeons and v2 dungeons until cp160. So... no, cp1 guy cant queue for CoS or something.

they can actualy, either the system is broken or restriction is not there. had 150 cp player in spindleclutch 2

Spindleclutch isn't a DLC dungeon though. There is meant to be a higher minimum requirement on the DLC dungeons (RoM, CoS, Imperial City, Blood Root, White gold tower etc)

Yep, originally the dungeons were listed in order of difficulty and they still unlock by level. A level 10 doesn't have access to every dungeon in the game for example and neither does a level 50. There are certain level or CP requirements to queue for dungeons, even vet dungeons, and the DLC ones are harder and have higher requirements because they came after the V16 cap. Dungeons that came before that, like Spindleclutch 2, which is the OLD Veteran Spindleclutch, didn't have to worry about CP because it didn't exist yet and they were set by Veteran Ranks. The current system unlocks dungeons at the appropriate gear level according to what the old level and Veteran rank requirements were, translated into CP. That's why we have the CP 160 gear cap, it's the old V16 and where all the old dungeons capped out at before they started introducing DLC.

Unfadingsilence · January 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

Was running a PUG group the other day and did the vote to kick the fake healer and the others knew each other and I was the one who ended up getting kicked

LordSemaj · January 2018

Unfadingsilence wrote: »

Meld777 wrote: »

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

Was running a PUG group the other day and did the vote to kick the fake healer and the others knew each other and I was the one who ended up getting kicked

That's how democracy works. If you can't stand each other and someone has to leave, the majority vote decides who to ostracize. The system isn't in place to kick fake tanks or fake healers or people who are bad at the game. It's there to kick literally anyone for any conceivable reason. You can either stick with it or be impatient. Probably could have just done the run in the 10 minutes.

Tetrafy · January 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Sometimes you just get a terrible group. Requeue and you should have better luck next time.

Ohh yeah, we had darkshade 2 yesterday and the "tank" with a 2h sword died TWICE on the first trash mob, I just stuck around and healed until the dps killed the mob, which took forever too, said politely in chat, "tank" dies twice on first trash mob, nope i'm out.
What was just as funny is that the replacement tank, who was a tank, didn't understand the mechanics, on the netch he just tried to take the untauntable randomly teleporting netch to the other side of the area, while completely ignoring all the other netches that was killing the dps. I was laughing irl.
Because I am an experienced tank main, I know when the tank is good, or bad, so I can critique logically. We got the dungeon done, but it was a lot harder than it should have been. I had to explain mechs to him.
Another not so very good tank in CoA2, was just terrible, but the last straw was after me explaining to him that tanks arent supposed to bring the damage to the team, we got to the ash titan and he was doing donuts around it killing the dps by making it turn around and do his firebreath aoe in their face, then when the air atros came he tried to tank them all in the middle together with the ash titan... Didn't go well lol

I think I had that same tank for COA2! The tank was spinning the ash titan around in circles and I was like, WTF?

Youre supposed to spin the ash titan watch a video for vet. Tank grabs dragon two spinners of death and rotates while dps stands behind feet and healer to the side in between dps and tank.

Stewart1874 · January 2018

I wish you could have like a 'soft' report system. If someone is blatantly assigned themselves as a role just to get in you should be able to do a soft report which just logs it in the system and then surely there must be a way of calculating what the average output of a healer or average damage taken by a tank in each dungeon and if someone logs enough report points and the system flags that they aren't *** healing they get a temp ban from the dungeon finder (like 1 day, then 5 and so forth).

Idk, just spitballing ideas :P

Girl_Number8 · January 2018

Meld777 wrote: »

Kick the fake tank, requeue. You left the group. The penalty is there for people like you. It hit the exact target. Suck it up.

I actually can picture that avatar saying "Suck it up."

Stinkyremy · January 2018

Tetrafy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Stinkyremy wrote: »

I'm tank main but running a healer alt atm and 85% of the time it is fake tanks, people who have all 3 roles slotted to queue for dungeons. They haven't even got the decency to slot inner fire or use an ice staff.
In cradle of shadows of all dungeons where 1 shots are everywhere.
This is an issue!
On top of this, the new "you cant do most normal dungeons until you are level 45" despite being 690 cp running an ult, but a cp 1 can do every vet dungeon....
Where is the logic in this?

Sometimes you just get a terrible group. Requeue and you should have better luck next time.

Ohh yeah, we had darkshade 2 yesterday and the "tank" with a 2h sword died TWICE on the first trash mob, I just stuck around and healed until the dps killed the mob, which took forever too, said politely in chat, "tank" dies twice on first trash mob, nope i'm out.
What was just as funny is that the replacement tank, who was a tank, didn't understand the mechanics, on the netch he just tried to take the untauntable randomly teleporting netch to the other side of the area, while completely ignoring all the other netches that was killing the dps. I was laughing irl.
Because I am an experienced tank main, I know when the tank is good, or bad, so I can critique logically. We got the dungeon done, but it was a lot harder than it should have been. I had to explain mechs to him.
Another not so very good tank in CoA2, was just terrible, but the last straw was after me explaining to him that tanks arent supposed to bring the damage to the team, we got to the ash titan and he was doing donuts around it killing the dps by making it turn around and do his firebreath aoe in their face, then when the air atros came he tried to tank them all in the middle together with the ash titan... Didn't go well lol

I think I had that same tank for COA2! The tank was spinning the ash titan around in circles and I was like, WTF?

Youre supposed to spin the ash titan watch a video for vet. Tank grabs dragon two spinners of death and rotates while dps stands behind feet and healer to the side in between dps and tank.

no, not at all, you tank the ash titan so the team are behind it and you are in from, then when the atros come you taunt them and the ash titan while walking around the arena with the atros away from the team, he will slowly spin, because he is facing you as you slowly walk around the arena,, you don't go straight to the ash titan and run around him in a circle constantly so he just keeps spinning and melting the team.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

Stewart1874 wrote: »

I wish you could have like a 'soft' report system. If someone is blatantly assigned themselves as a role just to get in you should be able to do a soft report which just logs it in the system and then surely there must be a way of calculating what the average output of a healer or average damage taken by a tank in each dungeon and if someone logs enough report points and the system flags that they aren't *** healing they get a temp ban from the dungeon finder (like 1 day, then 5 and so forth).

Idk, just spitballing ideas :P

sounds like a good idea.
not to compare the games but overwatch has something like that, warnings, unable to speak in game then eventually bans.
It would be a deterrent, but as with any report ystem it gets abused and you might end up getting banned just because people trolled you or didn't like you.

Nolic1 · January 2018

Everyone has the ability to play any dungeon at any level if the can get to the entrance and even trials they can start as soon as you get done with the tutorial. The group finder is separated by levels 10 to 45 is all normal path one 45 to 160 is all dungeons including dlc dungeons normal and vet for path one and some path 2, cp 160 and above is vet for everything else.

Most dlc dungeons are set to cp 300 for vet and even trials are as well and hm is set to cp 600. This is posted on the forums by Mike Finnigan the lead dungeon dev.

Anotherone773 · January 2018

Group/PUG dungeons in this game are a mess at best and a nightmare at worst. The fact that people can solo group dungeons that are technically their level and that in most cases you would probably get through it faster with 4 decent DPS than with a healer/tank/dps/dps setup speaks volumes about what a mess it is. They need to redo the whole system into something less chaotic and messy.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

Nolic1 wrote: »

Everyone has the ability to play any dungeon at any level if the can get to the entrance and even trials they can start as soon as you get done with the tutorial. The group finder is separated by levels 10 to 45 is all normal path one 45 to 160 is all dungeons including dlc dungeons normal and vet for path one and some path 2, cp 160 and above is vet for everything else.

Most dlc dungeons are set to cp 300 for vet and even trials are as well and hm is set to cp 600. This is posted on the forums by Mike Finnigan the lead dungeon dev.

So when I see -100 cp in wgt they travelled to cyrodill and entered wgt......
Most likely they were invited by someone, and then they have it on their map, then they wayshrine in, and wait, as group finder fills for them, or they were invited by a friend and wait for group finder, or the entire system is completely broken and people like me, who play my roles to the best of my ability gets screwed because of a broken system.
I'm assuming the latter

FYI I have done craglorn trials with a level 37. cp 160 of course

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · January 2018

In situations like this, I call the tank out and ask what they are and then if they don't change into tank gear, sometimes it takes a bit. I vote to kick.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

In situations like this, I call the tank out and ask what they are and then if they don't change into tank gear, sometimes it takes a bit. I vote to kick.

Exactly what I did with CoS
I typed fake tank?
no reply, I was waiting for a sword and shield to come out.
Fake tank? again, no reply, Then I said "defiantly a fake tank" then one of the dps said lets let him try.
Thing is this was cos norm, while easy at 690 and most of us were 690, veli would still 1 shot everyone without a tank, validor whatever his name would still 1shot, and the boss with the multiple braziers will be all over the place.
Despite what someone said above about dungeons being faster with 4 good dps, I find they are faster when they are organized, tank with chains and inner fire, standing still so mobs get killed quick.

O_LYKOS · January 2018

You left and bailed on the team. YOU should get the penalty.

If the "tank" is not agroing a boss they should be called out. Then kicked if they don't accommodate the group as expected.

How are ZOS expected to punish someone for being a "fake" tank? I can queue in a dungeon on a dps but as a tank and just slot a taunt. I'm a fake tank.

Stinkyremy · January 2018

O_LYKOS wrote: »

You left and bailed on the team. YOU should get the penalty.

If the "tank" is not agroing a boss they should be called out. Then kicked if they don't accommodate the group as expected.

How are ZOS expected to punish someone for being a "fake" tank? I can queue in a dungeon on a dps but as a tank and just slot a taunt. I'm a fake tank.

Your a fake tank simply because you aren't built as a tank, you will be a dps, and if you are reasonable, you will slot inner fire, but he didn't have it slotted.
I wouldn't be so concerned with a fake tank slotting inner fire on a dungeon like city of ash 1, or fungal grotto, but cradle of shadows, no taunt, 1 shots everywhere, veli hitting like a truck. Why wouldn't you instantly kick the dps who isn't a tank, you have no chance of succeeding. Remember before HotR and older dungeon nerfs, CoS used to be the most difficult dungeon in the game.