Is 2Handing just a cheesy way to PvP?

ArchMikem · January 2018

Everyone who is Stamina does it. It has a high damage spammable that knocks back, it has a gap closer that always crits, it has a Major Brutality buff that also heals you, and an AoE execute that scales from 50%. This entire time on my PvP main I've just took my DW/Bow PvE Build into Cyrodiil and made do. Sometimes I get surprised that just spamming Bloodthirst actually worked, but most of the time I'm outplayed or I take down players using nothing but class skills.

So tonight I finally golded a Greatsword and I'll take her into Cyrodiil tomorrow to see what happens. The hilarious part is I tried using it on the Factotum dummy to test burst, and my parse was twice that of my DW setup.

ToRelax · January 2018

No, I'm usually much more worried about people using dualwield or one hand/shield as their main weapon.

ArchMikem · January 2018

ToRelax wrote: »

No, I'm usually much more worried about people using dualwield or one hand/shield as their main weapon.

Sword and Shield is obvious, but what about Dual Wield is it that worries you. None of the skills hit hard and most people can easily heal through the bleed from Rending.

Turelus · January 2018

It's only cheesy to the people who lose to it, as with all effective set-ups.

technohic · January 2018

LOL Let us know how it goes. I've tried it before and its easy on a sitting target. Might want to rethink which morph of the gap closer you use. And if you're running heavy, probably the morph of rally.

coplannb16_ESO · January 2018

well known. 2H for burst/pvp, DW for sustained DPS / PvE

I still think DW in PvP is interesting, but everything outside the meta is interesting in comparison, albeit not always effective (or not most of the time).

as most cheesy stamBlades, just HA+Charge (HA finishing on impact)+Velidreth+LA+Ultimate+Finisher+Poison or Enchant.

more burst than most can survive, especially starting from stealth and enemy not having any buffs or shields up.

edit: the best part is that those stacked attacks create huge lag on the receiving end giving you plenty of time to finish up even if the victim survives. game engine cannot handle it really. sometimes, when Iam on the receiving end my screen basically freezes for up to 10 seconds, then I see the death recap or loading screen of doom. lol /golfclap

Ahzek · January 2018

2Handed is actually very weak as a mainbar weapon for PvP. This is mostly due to how unreliable your main damage spammable (uppercut) is. It can very easily be dodged or blocked, and its DPS is very low compared to DW. The 2h gapcloser is also pretty weak, especially with the nerfs next update.
However, the CC+burst combination of dizzying swing is very good at killing newer players and also somewhat reasonable abainst mag sorcs.

lao · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Everyone who is Stamina does it. It has a high damage spammable that knocks back, it has a gap closer that always crits, it has a Major Brutality buff that also heals you, and an AoE execute that scales from 50%. This entire time on my PvP main I've just took my DW/Bow PvE Build into Cyrodiil and made do. Sometimes I get surprised that just spamming Bloodthirst actually worked, but most of the time I'm outplayed or I take down players using nothing but class skills.

So tonight I finally golded a Greatsword and I'll take her into Cyrodiil tomorrow to see what happens. The hilarious part is I tried using it on the Factotum dummy to test burst, and my parse was twice that of my DW setup.

its kinda the strongest weapon for stam users in OW (absolutely poop in duels) but also has the highest skill ceiling. high skill / high reward.

ToRelax · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

No, I'm usually much more worried about people using dualwield or one hand/shield as their main weapon.

Sword and Shield is obvious, but what about Dual Wield is it that worries you. None of the skills hit hard and most people can easily heal through the bleed from Rending.

It creates continuous heavy pressure and can't be simply shut off by repositioning if need be, like Uppercut. If it's combined with poisons it becomes really nasty, and bleed Stamplars are the most dangerous spec for me to face because of purify and PotL.

Brutusmax1mus · January 2018

2h passives are awesome.

NoFlash · January 2018

^

Dw bleed builds OP

SRASinister · January 2018

DW dot builds are pretty good still, and I don't always use gap closers in pvp. Dizzying swing is really easy to dodge and doesn't hit nearly as hard as Wrecking blow used to. One of the best stam dk's on xbox na ran a duel wield dot build for open world and duels. I think he used the healing morphs of flurry and twin slashes though.

Vapirko · January 2018

You’ll realize how difficult it actually is to use well. And the reason that most stamina builds use it isn’t becsuse it’s cheese but because we’re forced into it based on a lack of class skills that work as spammables and an access to major brutality and heals. It’s great for pug stomping once you get the hang of it but harder to use against experinced players.

Sixty5 · January 2018

You typically want to take a 2h in PVP as a stab build as it will offer you a gap closer, a stam based burst heal/snare removal, along with CC, burst damage and an execute.

No class has access to all of those things in terms of class skills, and no other weapon type really offers that same level of versatility.

CatchMeTrolling · January 2018

Lol why do people act like 2h is hard to use.

Didgerion · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Is 2Handing just a cheesy way to PvP

Yes if you are a NB or a Stamplar.

As for the rest classes - there are no other bursty options out there beside using 2H.

DocFrost72 · January 2018

Give it three patches and attacking someone will be "cheese". We'll all sit down and talk our differences out instead.

jhharvest · January 2018

Dual wield in CP, 2H in no-CP. But to be fair, it's not 2H in general that's the issue, it's wrecking blow.

ArchMikem · January 2018

technohic wrote: »

LOL Let us know how it goes. I've tried it before and its easy on a sitting target. Might want to rethink which morph of the gap closer you use. And if you're running heavy, probably the morph of rally.

Kinda rewarding. Reverse Slice quite OP when clearing guards. Before going into cyrodiil the group did some dueling and I won quite a few of them. The burst is something. But the permablock and shield stacking builds are terrible to deal with.

Dizzying Swing feels wrong. Its very easy to break the animation when trying to cast. The gap closer too, it only takes you to the spot your target was the moment you cast so if they keep walking you'll miss them over and over. I may just go back to dual wielding though, for the 5/5/2 setup.

Vapirko · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

LOL Let us know how it goes. I've tried it before and its easy on a sitting target. Might want to rethink which morph of the gap closer you use. And if you're running heavy, probably the morph of rally.

Kinda rewarding. Reverse Slice quite OP when clearing guards. Before going into cyrodiil the group did some dueling and I won quite a few of them. The burst is something. But the permablock and shield stacking builds are terrible to deal with.

Dizzying Swing feels wrong. Its very easy to break the animation when trying to cast. The gap closer too, it only takes you to the spot your target was the moment you cast so if they keep walking you'll miss them over and over. I may just go back to dual wielding though, for the 5/5/2 setup.

Exactly. The challenge of 2H is getting used to it’s clunkiness. That means learning to move with your target so that they can’t cancel it on you.

Dreth · January 2018

It's pretty much required on so many Stam builds. Major brutality outside of combat and an execute aren't things built in to every class so we are forced to use a 2h. I would love to go dw/bow on so many build but can't bc the 2h line is mandatory.

generalmyrick · January 2018

yeap, super cheesy.

Skoomah · January 2018

2H skill line's main spammable is dizzy swing and gets countered by movement. It can not be reliably landed against good players who use line of sight and movement to avoid you connecting with it.

Reverse slice is only good when you've bursted someone down into execute range which requires you to land combos up until that point.

No one uses the 2H ultimate. I die to it maybe once a year.

Stampede, the gap closer, rarely applies the snare properly. And its damage is getting nerfed in half next patch.

2H skill line is fine. Leave it alone.

technohic · January 2018

Yeah my Stam Sorc runs it back bar with dual wield front. Was running bow back but decided for situations I just use dressing room to get ranged when I need it. Had to have some burst combo beyond DBOS and a some damage proc on anyone with a burst heal.

Asmael · January 2018

Ahzek wrote: »

2Handed is actually very weak as a mainbar weapon for PvP. This is mostly due to how unreliable your main damage spammable (uppercut) is. It can very easily be dodged or blocked, and its DPS is very low compared to DW. The 2h gapcloser is also pretty weak, especially with the nerfs next update.
However, the CC+burst combination of dizzying swing is very good at killing newer players and also somewhat reasonable abainst mag sorcs.

Pretty much that.

Dizzy swing is a PuG stomper, the actual reason I use a 2h is the instant-cast execute and Forward momentum. The instant cast + stronger bash of SnB completely outclasses Dizzy, on top of providing much higher passive and active defense, as well as completing an extra set. Chances are 2H would see much less use if not for Momentum and its morphs.

Yiko · January 2018

Ahzek wrote: »

2Handed is actually very weak as a mainbar weapon for PvP. This is mostly due to how unreliable your main damage spammable (uppercut) is. It can very easily be dodged or blocked, and its DPS is very low compared to DW. The 2h gapcloser is also pretty weak, especially with the nerfs next update.
However, the CC+burst combination of dizzying swing is very good at killing newer players and also somewhat reasonable abainst mag sorcs.

This. Dizzying Swing is generally only used by weaker players or against weaker players.
Though every stamina user is essentially pigeon-holed into using 2H for Rally/Forward Momentum, using 2H as a main bar against good players isn't as viable as a S&S or DW main bar.

VirtualElizabeth · January 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

yeap, super cheesy.

I see replies like this off and on about builds but with no suggestions. So for a player who has only recently embraced a Stamblade as her preferred Stam class - what are the options? Double bow with a emphasis on class skills on the front bar?

WillhelmBlack · January 2018

No. It's the easiest countered weapon type.

gabormezo · January 2018

DW is very good if you have enough WD and crit to support it. I run my stamsorc at 5.2 K buffed with 50ish percent crit. With numbers like this Bloodthirst is a burst.

IZZEFlameLash · January 2018

2h is easily countered by just rooting the user and then move to the back or even to their side. Or just moving. It is the least of concern... but now... DW.... that is something scary.

Izaki · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

No, I'm usually much more worried about people using dualwield or one hand/shield as their main weapon.

Sword and Shield is obvious, but what about Dual Wield is it that worries you. None of the skills hit hard and most people can easily heal through the bleed from Rending.

Steel Tornado is undodgeable. It hits VERY hard in execute phase. A lot of Wardens who don't use Dizzy Swing, use DW and they are much more dangerous to medium armor builds than 2H ones.