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A request to Wrobel to examine potential stamsorc buff.

Yubarius
Yubarius
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This post will be quite long, so here is the TLDR; Stamina sorcerer is in need of a class spammable and/or execute as well as more buff availability, because being forced to run specific weapon/gear combinations to obtain buffs that most other classes have on their own extremely limits build diversity and class effectiveness.


Dear @ZOS_Wrobel ,

On the most recent ESO live, you said that you and your team were more likely to accept suggestions for buffs/nerfs if we provide logical and constructive posts to support our requests. Well, on this post, I hope you will look into some kind of buff to my favorite class and forever main: stamsorc. I appreciate the few buffs stamsorc had received in what I think was Dark Brotherhood (please correct me if I am wrong); however, I feel this is one of the classes that suffers most into being pigeon-holed into very specific setups/ bar allocation due to it's lack of buff availability and it's own class spammable/execute/ultimate. Let's begin. B)

Class Spammable/buff availability

Firstly, lets start with what I believe to be the most "controversial" potential buff; a class spammable. Without a class spammable like stam/mag Temp, stam/mag NB, stam/mag Warden, and mag DK, this hinders the potential for build diversity because not all of the available weapon lines provide equal potential diversity and effectiveness as classes that contain a class spammable. For example, lets specifically talk about stamina nightblades first. Stamina nightblades have Surprise Attack as a class spammable ability. Not only does this allow to class to effectively run any weapon setup and not rely on the less effective weapon spammables, but it also provides many other advantages. Surprise attack also afflicts Major Fracture, gives the NB Major resistances due to the passive Shadow Barrier, and also stuns the target if used from stealth. On the large list of buffs nightblades have available to them, Major Fracture attached to their spammable is arguably one of the best, as this is one of the most effective forms of damage amplification in the game and is efficiently tied to their spammable, resulting in almost 100% uptime when targeting someone. Compare what is available in one skill on a Nightblade to what is necessary for a Stamsorc to obtain. If I want a CC, I have to use an ability such as Reverberating bash... but I have to be using S&B to obtain the stun. I could also use Dizzying Swing... but I am then forced to use 2H. I could use streak... but then I am out of range of the target for melee abilities and depletes a limited magicka pool. How about Major Fracture? I could use Pierce armor... but then I am forced to run S&B. I could run Spriggan's Thorns... but I am giving up a FULL ARMOR SET to obtain a penetration value that is not even equal to the amount provided through Surprise Attack. On top of having a class spammable, they ALSO have a class execute! And don't get me started on how strong Incapacitating Strike is *cough cough* High burst damage 70 ult cost that applies Major Defile, stuns, and makes you do 20% bonus damage to them! *cough cough*...Ahem, excuse me, something was caught in my throat. See what I'm getting at?

Some may think that nightblade is too extreme of an example because they are one of the best classes for single target damage (and they would be right), so lets use a class that is not as popular; Stamplar. Stamplar's class spammable is Puncturing Sweeps. This ability is quite effective in AOE but is even better for focusing single targets because the closest target hit takes 140% additional damage. On top of being good AOE and single target, this provides the user with Major Savagery granting them ~10% crit chance, has 2 opportunities to proc burning light, and slowing the target for 70% for 2 seconds after the final hit. Lets say I wish to obtain some of the buffs/effects stamplar obtains by JUST using a class spammable. I want good AOE? I could use Steel tornado or shrouded daggers... but then I am forced to run dual wield. I could use Reverse Slice as a good execute and AOE... but then I am forced to run 2H. Lets say I want Major Savagery. I could slot Evil Hunter... but I am forced to drop a skill slot. I could run Toothrow... but I am forced to give up a FULL ARMOR SET for it. Lets say I want a snare. I could use Rending slashes or Stampede... but I have to run 2H or Dual Wield to obtain it.

My point in these two examples is to evidence that in order to obtain essential damage buffs, other classes obtain them PASSIVELY by using their class spammables or other abilities in their class skill lines which is two-fold; allowing them to run a wide variety of gear sets, but ALSO the complete freedom to run weapon combinations simply for even more damage potential such as DOT's or snares. As a Stamsorc, I must choose a weapon line that contains an effective spammable, and a set that provides buffs and still find a way to have damage bonuses AND some form of survivability. Dizzying swing is ineffective as it has a cast time that is easily avoided by skilled players, Flurry is ineffective because it lacks burst but does have some potential for good healing, and Ransack is arguably the "best" because it is instant and applys major fracture... but the skill line as a whole does not provide as much potential damage as the others. I realize that not every class should have simple class access to every buff in the game, but it is quite absurd that Stamsorc only has access to FOUR minor/major buffs (minor expedition and Major Resistances from Hurricane, Major brutality from crit surge, Minor Resolvefrom Bound Armaments) with no class spammable, execute, OR ultimate.

Class survive-ability

One struggle with Stamsorc is survive-ability (specifically in medium armor, but I know medium armor is an issue for most classes in the game). Lets keep Nightblade and Templar as our examples. A nightblade can go invisible at will and has access to minor maim from 2 sources (Mass Hysteria and Shadow Image), causing the enemy to take 15% less damage. How about stamplar? They have 8% damage mitigation from Restoring Focus, and the ONLY class with quick access to a Purge (Extended Ritual costs WAY less and removes 3 more effects than even efficent purge does). One could argue that stamsorc's survive-ability comes from it's mobility, through minor expedition and streak, which would be true... if this game weren't plagued with an over abundance of snares tied to already amazing skills (but that is a rant for another day); and streak has limited use on mag sorc because of the 50% cost increase before 4 seconds, so imagine how it feels on stamsorc... not great. "Well Yubarius", you might say, "Stamsorc has crit surge for self healing while in combat! There is their survival, right!?" Unfortunately, not anymore. This ability was once a TRULY unique, but ALSO effective heal in PvP. When it would heal you for 60% of your damage done with direct damage on crits. This was nice because when using 2H for example, getting crits on a Dizzying Swing meant a decent chunk heal, but required that you are on constant offense to obtain said heal, which keep in mind was only on crits. This was an amazing ability because the uniqeness of having to stay on the offense in a fight in order to survive was a different playstyle, and building for crit meant better heals, while sacrificing base damage. This ability now gives a flat heal of 3000 outside cyrodiil, but this becomes so insanely weak it is almost never used. I did some testing and, when in full medium with no bonuses to healing received, I was getting a 1600 heal non-crit, and 2433 crit. With Major defile applied and no points into Befoul, I was getting 1159 non-crit and 1738 crit. This ability can proc off of DOT's which is nice, but the fact that the heal is SO low and ONLY comes from a crit means it is ineffective in heavy armor and is not nearly as useful as what the old version did. The ability to obtain a burst heal was better because passive smaller healing is quickly out-damaged by high burst, which is what this game is centered around. High burst heal counteracts High burst damage. Ever wonder why Rally is so widely used in PvP? It's because the large burst heal can save you from the claws of death.

The good (kinda)

While I feel Stamsorc could use a buff, I recognize that they also have some decent skills/buffs themselves; however, some are available to the other classes already (such as Major Resistances) and many of our "good" skills are quite underwhelming. Dark Deal is most likely the first thing that comes to mind when examining the good skills of a stamsorc. This ability converts mana into stamina and health, but is easily countered by smart players who interrupt, and the fact that most sorcs have limited magicka and regen. This ability is quite good as it allows us to almost entirely rely on dark deal as means of sustaining. Another example is implosion. Many players get frustrated when they die to implosion because it is a passive execute that does large amounts of damage... but when you look at the passive, it is not nearly as good as it seems from an outside lense. It procs when the enemy is under 15% health, takes physical or shock damage.... and only has a SIX PERCENT CHANCE TO PROC.... how can this be considered an "effective" or "reliable" execute, since if a player is under 15% health they are likely dead anyway from other execute spam like Reverse Slice or Steel Tornado, and only has a 6% chance to proc??? Come on, I should get a better reward for getting them to 15% other than a SIX DARN PERCENT CHANCE to do damage that, also why why why, is it based off MY health???? One thing that is COMPLETELY unique to the sorcerer class is access to a third bar. This is nice as it allows the use of 5 additional skills... but there are not many useful ones to slot and they are unavailable if you have just used your DPS ultimate.

Suggestions for buffs

I will try to keep this section as "un-OP" as possible, but if you feel I am getting that way, please call it out (however I don't feel like what I am asking for is that much considering most classes already have access to them or buffs that are in line with my suggestions). First up is active abilities. I propose that Crystal Blast be changed into a stamina ability called Crystalized Punch (or something to that effect). This will have a 5 meter range and instant cast, dealing [x] physical damage to the target and (this is where I leave it to you, Wrobel, to decide which buff to give to stamsorc) [Apply Major fracture to the target for 12 seconds] OR [Grants you Major Savagery for 12 seconds] OR [Grants you Minor Berserk for 12 seconds]. Changing this to a stamina ability would not hurt magicka sorcs because it is probably the most unused morph of any ability in the game because Crystal Fragments is so much better. This would solve 2 of what I feel are the biggest shortcomings of the stamsorc, ZERO access to essential damage buffs and a class spammable to open up build diversity. Another buff I would like is perhaps making Mage's Wrath into a stamina execute. This could have a 10 meter range with the same effect as the current verison but deals physical damage instead. Again, opening diversity to allow more weapon combos instead of being forced to run 2H or Steel Tornado as an execute. Onto Critical surge... sigh. Please just return this ability to it's previous state, honestly. Nobody asked for this change and I am surprised it was never changed back after it was first implemented. If you still want it to be applicable by DOT's, fine, then at least buff the heal by quite a bit, but maybe only allow it every 1.5 or 2 seconds to balance it out. I just want more reliable, bigger heals on it.

Wrobel, maybe you take all of my suggestions and alter them in some way, maybe you only take one, maybe you make completely different changes to what I have suggested. In any case, I hope that I have clearly provided enough evidence to justify a buff to the Stamsorc class and that you make good but fair buffs to them. If you give us good damage buffs, perhaps tone down some things in our kit, like making you lose resources when interrupted while attempting to cast dark deal.

Best Regards,

Yubarius (A hopeful stamsorc main)
  • Yubarius - Magicka NB - Flawless Conqueror
  • YubariusX - Magicka Warden - Flawless Conqueror
  • Lord Yubarius - Stamina Sorc - Stormproof - Centurion
  • 'Rubick the Grand Magus - Magicka Sorc
  • Fair Child Tank - Stamina DK
  • Jaruko - Magicka Templar
  • Selthyn Bavailo - Mag DK
  • Bandit-The-Great - Stam Temp





  • hero2zer0
    hero2zer0
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    I’m a pretty bad player, but why not use Shuffle / Forward Momentum as means of removing snares? Sure you must use med armor or 2H weapon, but that’s still better than say mag sorc.

    As for spam-able, again compared to mag sorc you have 4 weapon lines with skills to choose from and are nit tied to a single line (with only 2 candidate skills for spamables).

    Regarding exec: implosion is not that bad, or you could use Reverse Slash / Poison Injection, there is also a set giving more weapon dam vs low health, so it’s not a totaly missing concept.

    I’m not against buffing stam sorc in general, I just feel that the things you mentioned are not that of a big deal. Having said that, I do agree that the sorc could use a few stamina morphs, Crystal Blast being the prime candidate (would give it minor Brutality, since major is easily obtainable).
  • Morgul667
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    Stam sorc could use a small buff :) Not sure those are the ones though. Nice posting anyway
  • Calboy
    Calboy
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    Yes stam sorc need a bone, but seriously you spent all your real life time writing all that for a game?
  • Sixty5
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    I'd probably go with a tweak to Bound Armour over anything else

    Probably the ability with the most scope to be useful.

    This was what I came up with after a bit of deliberation
    Bound Armour
    While slotted gain 5% Magicka or Stamina (whichever is higher) and Minor Resolve
    Activating this ability purges one negative effect

    Bound Armaments
    While slotted gain 8% Magicka or Stamina (whichever is higher) and Minor Resolve
    Activating this ability boosts Light and Heavy attack damage for X seconds while Bound Armour is slotted and purges negative effect

    Bound Aegis
    While slotted gain 5% Magicka or Stamina (whichever is higher) and Minor Resolve and Minor Ward
    Activating this ability grants minor protection for X seconds, and reduces the effects of crowd control for Y seconds, while Bound Armour is slotted
    Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.

    I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
    Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds
  • charley222
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    i guess some player still have hope but me just to read the last patch note i guess the answer is very obvious
    the wall of the covenant
  • Ragnarock41
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    stamsorc/stamDk doesn't need a spammable. I mean, yes they do, because the ones they have is either unreliable or bad.

    A stamDK is naturall gonna use SnB, so they can at least use heroic slash weave to get the most out of what they're stuck with.

    We are in the same boat with stamsorcs when it comes to spammables, we are stuck with the default, no back up options.

    stamsorc is meant for high burst and mobility, they are the most effective class with dizzying swing builds.

    But problem is, dizzying swing/wrecking blow are kind of unreliable.

    and dual wield skills in general is a joke for open world PvP so I won't mention that.

    But one thing is worth mentioning, crit surge makes stamsorc synergize extremely well with dual wield, resulting in a viable dual wield build for stamsorcs. Its niche but a dw stamsorc is definitely playable.

    Instead of giving stamsorc a spammable, dizzying swing/wrecking blow needs to be buffed.

    Well, flurry also could be a little faster too.

    Especially the wrecking blow needs a buff tho. dizzying swing is somewhat fine and rewarding when you land it, but wrecking blow seriously lacks purpose.

    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 24, 2018 9:19AM
  • Yubarius
    Yubarius
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    Calboy wrote: »
    Yes stam sorc need a bone, but seriously you spent all your real life time writing all that for a game?

    Well since I'm not busy every second of my life, I used last night's time I had to play to write up this post.
    • Yubarius - Magicka NB - Flawless Conqueror
    • YubariusX - Magicka Warden - Flawless Conqueror
    • Lord Yubarius - Stamina Sorc - Stormproof - Centurion
    • 'Rubick the Grand Magus - Magicka Sorc
    • Fair Child Tank - Stamina DK
    • Jaruko - Magicka Templar
    • Selthyn Bavailo - Mag DK
    • Bandit-The-Great - Stam Temp





  • Vapirko
    Vapirko
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    Well said. I very much like what you had to say when giving reasons stam sorc suffers compared to most other stam classes. I think the idea for a buff is a little iffy, no offense, but this whole post is definitely on the right track. Stam sorcs are still strong for whatever reason, so their buffing would have to be handled skillfully and carefully with consultations from some of PvPs top stam sorc users. I love playing one and definitely agree that we have to fill our skill bars with the same old skills over and over and have little to no extra room to slot interesting skills because we also need so many buffs from different places. My other favorite class is magblade and the night and day difference in terms of skills variations between these two classes is just ridiculous. There are so many different skill loadouts for magblades depending how you want to play. With stam sorc we all basically run the same thing. Stam sorc skills just don’t synergies together that well. The only stamina skills we really have are hurricane and bound armaments which is a toggle and doesn’t really count. That’s even worse than stamina DK.
  • Ragnarock41
    Ragnarock41
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    Vapirko wrote: »
    Well said. I very much like what you had to say when giving reasons stam sorc suffers compared to most other stam classes. I think the idea for a buff is a little iffy, no offense, but this whole post is definitely on the right track. Stam sorcs are still strong for whatever reason, so their buffing would have to be handled skillfully and carefully with consultations from some of PvPs top stam sorc users. I love playing one and definitely agree that we have to fill our skill bars with the same old skills over and over and have little to no extra room to slot interesting skills because we also need so many buffs from different places. My other favorite class is magblade and the night and day difference in terms of skills variations between these two classes is just ridiculous. There are so many different skill loadouts for magblades depending how you want to play. With stam sorc we all basically run the same thing. Stam sorc skills just don’t synergies together that well. The only stamina skills we really have are hurricane and bound armaments which is a toggle and doesn’t really count. That’s even worse than stamina DK.

    Nah. trust me, stamsorc is not worse than stamDk and will outperform it completely on next patch, with the interrupt changes.
    Dark deal for days..

    stamDK on the other hand literally has 2 lame dots as ''class defining skills''.
    But the best dot/bleed builds are still stamsorcs...

    in the end both classes are somewhat limited in build choices, BUT, a stamsorc can still go dual wield, can go bow, 2h, SnB.. anything really.. meanwhile a Dk is forced into Sword and shield. even in medium.
    Edited by Ragnarock41 on January 24, 2018 1:20PM
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    That is very well thought out. Sorc is an interesting class. Their main strength is their stats, their main drawback is that they are in last place in terms of access to buffs. As the game has evolved, the later has become much more important. You have definitely highlighted their issues/problems quite well. When you compare either stam or magic sorc to the NB counterpart, the class becomes almost laughable. I am not calling for a NB nerf, but rather suggesting they be used as a guideline as they are perhaps the most well put together class in the game.

    Spammable: The crystal blast idea is interesting. I have been playing stam and magic sorc for years and never have I ever heard of any build ever that uses this skill. It's total f'ing garbage, they need to do something with it. While you are at it, crystal frags needs a buff as well. The recent nerf was way too much. It served as a quasi spammable for magic sorc, and like every other class spammable, it had a few features. With no stun, it is really lackluster in PVP. The other options here would be to tweak Dizzying Swing/WB and RapidStrikes. Rapid strikes has gone from a stamina staple to simply not being used anymore. Dizzying swing is the most unreliable skill in the game. It's powerful, but I absolutely hate making it the center of a build. It is one of the main reasons I currently dont play my stam sorc in PVP.

    Buffs: This is the greatest weakness to sorcs. I dont know what the answer is, but they simply need more access to class buffs. I would not even be opposed to reworking bound armaments/aegis into a long duration buff skill. Toggle skills that need to be on both bars are the number one reason that sorcs have very narrow builds. An overload bar does help this, but using an overload bar has it's own set of issues in any type of heavy combat situation. My overload bar is generally little more than a mobility bar. I think there could be some tweaking of how overload is activated to help here as well.

    Dark Deal/Conversion: This is one of those skills that is absolutely fabulous on paper, but not nearly as good in actual combat. You essentially need to use LOS if you every want to get this off in combat. It either needs to be shorter or uninterruptible or both. If you need to change the values, fine, but this skill can be a death sentence if you use it mid fight.

    Edited by Oreyn_Bearclaw on January 24, 2018 6:22PM
  • rafaelcsmaia
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    Im sorry to burst your bubble but to summon @ZOS_Wrobel you need to perform a 3 week ritual involving blood offerings and animal sacrifice, and even still he might not show up
  • deepseamk20b14_ESO
    deepseamk20b14_ESO
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    That is very well thought out. Sorc is an interesting class. Their main strength is their stats, their main drawback is that they are in last place in terms of access to buffs. As the game has evolved, the later has become much more important. You have definitely highlighted their issues/problems quite well. When you compare either stam or magic sorc to the NB counterpart, the class becomes almost laughable. I am not calling for a NB nerf, but rather suggesting they be used as a guideline as they are perhaps the most well put together class in the game.

    Spammable: The crystal blast idea is interesting. I have been playing stam and magic sorc for years and never have I ever heard of any build ever that uses this skill. It's total f'ing garbage, they need to do something with it. While you are at it, crystal frags needs a buff as well. The recent nerf was way too much. It served as a quasi spammable for magic sorc, and like every other class spammable, it had a few features. With no stun, it is really lackluster in PVP. The other options here would be to tweak Dizzying Swing/WB and RapidStrikes. Rapid strikes has gone from a stamina staple to simply not being used anymore. Dizzying swing is the most unreliable skill in the game. It's powerful, but I absolutely hate making it the center of a build. It is one of the main reasons I currently dont play my stam sorc in PVP.

    Buffs: This is the greatest weakness to sorcs. I dont know what the answer is, but they simply need more access to class buffs. I would not even be opposed to reworking bound armaments/aegis into a long duration buff skill. Toggle skills that need to be on both bars are the number one reason that sorcs have very narrow builds. An overload bar does help this, but using an overload bar has it's own set of issues in any type of heavy combat situation. My overload bar is generally little more than a mobility bar. I think there could be some tweaking of how overload is activated to help here as well.

    Dark Deal/Conversion: This is one of those skills that is absolutely fabulous on paper, but not nearly as good in actual combat. You essentially need to use LOS if you every want to get this off in combat. It either needs to be shorter or uninterruptible or both. If you need to change the values, fine, but this skill can be a death sentence if you use it mid fight.
    That is very well thought out. Sorc is an interesting class. Their main strength is their stats, their main drawback is that they are in last place in terms of access to buffs. As the game has evolved, the later has become much more important. You have definitely highlighted their issues/problems quite well. When you compare either stam or magic sorc to the NB counterpart, the class becomes almost laughable. I am not calling for a NB nerf, but rather suggesting they be used as a guideline as they are perhaps the most well put together class in the game.

    Spammable: The crystal blast idea is interesting. I have been playing stam and magic sorc for years and never have I ever heard of any build ever that uses this skill. It's total f'ing garbage, they need to do something with it. While you are at it, crystal frags needs a buff as well. The recent nerf was way too much. It served as a quasi spammable for magic sorc, and like every other class spammable, it had a few features. With no stun, it is really lackluster in PVP. The other options here would be to tweak Dizzying Swing/WB and RapidStrikes. Rapid strikes has gone from a stamina staple to simply not being used anymore. Dizzying swing is the most unreliable skill in the game. It's powerful, but I absolutely hate making it the center of a build. It is one of the main reasons I currently dont play my stam sorc in PVP.

    Buffs: This is the greatest weakness to sorcs. I dont know what the answer is, but they simply need more access to class buffs. I would not even be opposed to reworking bound armaments/aegis into a long duration buff skill. Toggle skills that need to be on both bars are the number one reason that sorcs have very narrow builds. An overload bar does help this, but using an overload bar has it's own set of issues in any type of heavy combat situation. My overload bar is generally little more than a mobility bar. I think there could be some tweaking of how overload is activated to help here as well.

    Dark Deal/Conversion: This is one of those skills that is absolutely fabulous on paper, but not nearly as good in actual combat. You essentially need to use LOS if you every want to get this off in combat. It either needs to be shorter or uninterruptible or both. If you need to change the values, fine, but this skill can be a death sentence if you use it mid fight.

    Read the new patch notes. Dark deal can be interrupted but after 3 seconds essentially spammed without issue.
    Hey everyone! Look! It's a signature!
  • Sawzallz
    Sawzallz
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    Im sorry to burst your bubble but to summon @ZOS_Wrobel you need to perform a 3 week ritual involving blood offerings and animal sacrifice, and even still he might not show up
    Im sorry to burst your bubble but to summon @ZOS_Wrobel you need to perform a 3 week ritual involving blood offerings and animal sacrifice, and even still he might not show up
    Don't forget the crowns in the middle and a dlc pack code, also Stam sorc needs a small. Buff or something I use a Stam sorc woodelf its hard to play as her I can barely kill npcs and I'm cp 97, my skills for bow are pretty upsetting I need something to spam xD
  • xiZeroPointix
    xiZeroPointix
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    Stam Sorc...is overshadowed by its magicka based counterpart. Taking stam over magicka for sorcs are night and day difference. The whole class kit revolves around magicka based skills and damage...whilst going stam is essentially gimping yourself. I have both mag and stam sorcs. I really do enjoy the base mobiility of the stam sorc (especially with and orc) and alot of the good things about sorcs come from the great passives the class has..well they boost overall stats, but raw damage enabling de-buffs and other perks attached to some strong abilities from other classes are flat out sub-par. No defile, no savagery, no berserk etc. The sorc is good at pure damage ill admit, but the class specific "burst" is only for its magicka based version. The magicka version has the best surviveability and the complete opposite goes for its stam based self going from best 2 worst just by changing att points to stam. This makes the stam sorc wholly dependant on other skill trees outside of its class. With no unique skills like Templar for example has its own rapid strikes built in to there kit that heals and hits the same area as blockade and deals more damage than either. This also gives the magicka version the added advantage of running 5-5-2 and a class spammable getting the best of both worlds without having to use any skills from dual wield, whilst using say a proc set on the dual wield bar or sustain set while spamming jabs and an extra few ability slots for other skills instead of using weapon tree abilities. With there being a mag and stam version of jabs. This puts stam sorc as well as dk as the only 2 classes that are dependant on every other skill tree other than there own clas skills. There are currently 3 stam sorc class abilities it can use. Hurricane, dark deal, bound arnaments. Bound arnaments is almost never slotted do to it being a 2 bar toggle. It takes up too many slots were running caltrops and vigor is more important. As with what the OP stated stam sorc has very limited choices regarding class skills which are 2 skills out of 3 whole trees. Warden has the most class based buffs and debuffs in the game that benifit both stam and mag. Second is nightblade..third is templar..4th is stam sorc. This makes the stam sorc only as good as the weapon skill lines and a class spammable or just all around better stam morphs from the class abilites would be a step in the right direction. The majority of the magicka based morphs are rarely taken by magicka based sorcs. Such as mines for example. You get the one with 5 mines in a circle..good for magicka, so turn the one that shoots in a straight line to stam users similar to sub assault from wardens. Give a stam user a pet that deals physical damage like the gaurdian. Why should magicka get 2 pets and all the morphs as well? Crystal blast is a good stam morph do to the fact that a stam user lacks a good stun. Mages wrath could do physical damage and return stamina instead. Have daedric curse deal magick and physical damage (whichever has the highest resource pool)to go with a pet that deals physical damage. One morph of hardened ward dare i say that costs stam, similar to bone shield...or like dk obsidian in which one moroh of that abikity should cost stam as well. Stamina and shields i know!!! Just for the sake of examples. This would bring stam sorc in line with other classes and make it feel a bit more unique and flavorful. This would pull people away from the gank fest and give more stamina options, while not affecting the magsorc at all really. If wardens, nightblades and templars can have magical abilities that deal physical damage, meaning you do not need a weapon to cast an ability so can stam sorcs!
  • kylewwefan
    kylewwefan
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    I take it you didn’t see that parse of some StamSorc fellow hitting 90k DPS on VMOL.

    See, this is why they need to separate PvP and PvE. They nerf these skills because they’re over performing in PvE and then they become garbage in Cyrodil or the other way around like with proc sets.

    StamSorc is easy to play and op af in dungeons and still great in PvP also. Every Zerg I’ve ever run with wants a negate in the group and streak. They’re tough to fight in open world too.

    Basically....I don’t get it, but I’d take a buff sure.
  • Solariken
    Solariken
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    I don't think Stamsorc needs any buffs per se, they have a very strong kit with the best mobility in the game and among the best sustain tools.

    A class spammable would be fantastic though, I really like someone's idea from a while back about adding a Crystal Fist morph, basically a 1s wind-up into a big, explosive punch. Would feel awesome!

    I also think Bound Armor should be made into an active buff skill instead of a double bar pet-like skill. Bound Armor is totally uninspired at current.
  • xiZeroPointix
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    kylewwefan wrote: »
    I take it you didn’t see that parse of some StamSorc fellow hitting 90k DPS on VMOL.

    See, this is why they need to separate PvP and PvE. They nerf these skills because they’re over performing in PvE and then they become garbage in Cyrodil or the other way around like with proc sets.

    StamSorc is easy to play and op af in dungeons and still great in PvP also. Every Zerg I’ve ever run with wants a negate in the group and streak. They’re tough to fight in open world too.

    Basically....I don’t get it, but I’d take a buff sure.

    It was probably aoe damage. No class can do 90k single target
  • xiZeroPointix
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    Solariken wrote: »
    I don't think Stamsorc needs any buffs per se, they have a very strong kit with the best mobility in the game and among the best sustain tools.

    A class spammable would be fantastic though, I really like someone's idea from a while back about adding a Crystal Fist morph, basically a 1s wind-up into a big, explosive punch. Would feel awesome!

    I also think Bound Armor should be made into an active buff skill instead of a double bar pet-like skill. Bound Armor is totally uninspired at current.

    Stam sorcs lack class skills for burst as well. Dawnbreaker is what keeps the class alive in pvp. We are not saying that stam sorc lacks damage and viability in pve. It lacks diversity from skills in ita own class. Look at a stam templar, warden, nb skill rotation vs a stam sorc. You may only have 1 or 2 class skills and the rest are a mashup from other non class abilities...while the other classes are 70% stamina class abilities. Making them more unique. Not asking for a stam sorc buff...just asking for access to abilities within its own class.
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Lets say you are any other class and you want Minor Expedition you have to use an armor set, use Rapid's in combat just to lose it, use vampire CC ability. How about if you wanted to get your Major Ward and Resolve, oh wait that's the same skill. Well at least you have a good buff skill now you just need AOE OH WAIT THAT THE SAME SKILL!!!

    Well at least you can get Major Brutality from a class skill on your own I mean that's great, now we just need healing, aw man you get both in one skill. Ult cost reduction? Surely you need to run DragonGuard? Nope built it. 8% more stamina? Well it does require a double bar but no one else has access to this buff, but you get 20% health and stam recovery for slotting it as well as minor armor buffs. I mean it really brings a lot to the table, just maybe not the things you want.

    5% more physical damage, 2% more weapon damage for each sorc skill, passive execute function. We all get it, Implosion is unreliable, we also all get killed by it so even something that unreliable will net you kills that frankly you didn't do anything more as a player than the next guy. You just got the dice roll that says you win.

    Stam Sorc has excellent access to buffs. Just not the ones you want apparently.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • xiZeroPointix
    xiZeroPointix
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    Lets say you are any other class and you want Minor Expedition you have to use an armor set, use Rapid's in combat just to lose it, use vampire CC ability. How about if you wanted to get your Major Ward and Resolve, oh wait that's the same skill. Well at least you have a good buff skill now you just need AOE OH WAIT THAT THE SAME SKILL!!!

    Well at least you can get Major Brutality from a class skill on your own I mean that's great, now we just need healing, aw man you get both in one skill. Ult cost reduction? Surely you need to run DragonGuard? Nope built it. 8% more stamina? Well it does require a double bar but no one else has access to this buff, but you get 20% health and stam recovery for slotting it as well as minor armor buffs. I mean it really brings a lot to the table, just maybe not the things you want.

    5% more physical damage, 2% more weapon damage for each sorc skill, passive execute function. We all get it, Implosion is unreliable, we also all get killed by it so even something that unreliable will net you kills that frankly you didn't do anything more as a player than the next guy. You just got the dice roll that says you win.

    Stam Sorc has excellent access to buffs. Just not the ones you want apparently.

    A little salty? Like I said earlier...the passives are really good. What about de buffs and buffs offered in other classes skill set. defile...heroism...maim... Beserk...vitality...protection...savagery. The buffs you named are all the buffs stam sorcs gets from its class which is FEW along with 2 class abilities maybe 3 if you have room for a 2 bar toggle. Zero debuffs other than an auto execute passively gained. Just asking for access to abilites within its own class. No need to rework buffs and debuffs. Just more abilities suited for stam use within the 3 skill trees. Out of about 24 class abilities stam sorc gets 3 skills from its entire class. That is the principal not single target dps...or op-ness in pve. The discussion is about more selection of abilities in its own class which is fair in my opinion. Not buff and debuff lists. CLASS ABILITY ACCESS
  • xiZeroPointix
    xiZeroPointix
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    kylewwefan wrote: »

    This is with full raid buffs supplied by the other classes as mentioned by the op. Stam sorc didnt bring many buffs of his own. They were supplied to him. This is a very good example of stam sorc potential. Gota give credit were it is due tho. Never said the class was weak, they just have limited access to skills within its own class
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Lets say you are any other class and you want Minor Expedition you have to use an armor set, use Rapid's in combat just to lose it, use vampire CC ability. How about if you wanted to get your Major Ward and Resolve, oh wait that's the same skill. Well at least you have a good buff skill now you just need AOE OH WAIT THAT THE SAME SKILL!!!

    Well at least you can get Major Brutality from a class skill on your own I mean that's great, now we just need healing, aw man you get both in one skill. Ult cost reduction? Surely you need to run DragonGuard? Nope built it. 8% more stamina? Well it does require a double bar but no one else has access to this buff, but you get 20% health and stam recovery for slotting it as well as minor armor buffs. I mean it really brings a lot to the table, just maybe not the things you want.

    5% more physical damage, 2% more weapon damage for each sorc skill, passive execute function. We all get it, Implosion is unreliable, we also all get killed by it so even something that unreliable will net you kills that frankly you didn't do anything more as a player than the next guy. You just got the dice roll that says you win.

    Stam Sorc has excellent access to buffs. Just not the ones you want apparently.

    A little salty? Like I said earlier...the passives are really good. What about de buffs and buffs offered in other classes skill set. defile...heroism...maim... Beserk...vitality...protection...savagery. The buffs you named are all the buffs stam sorcs gets from its class which is FEW along with 2 class abilities maybe 3 if you have room for a 2 bar toggle. Zero debuffs other than an auto execute passively gained. Just asking for access to abilites within its own class. No need to rework buffs and debuffs. Just more abilities suited for stam use within the 3 skill trees. Out of about 24 class abilities stam sorc gets 3 skills from its entire class. That is the principal not single target dps...or op-ness in pve. The discussion is about more selection of abilities in its own class which is fair in my opinion. Not buff and debuff lists. CLASS ABILITY ACCESS

    I got my Flawless on my Stamina sorc the first time I ever took him into VMA, which was after the Morrowind changes and I was running bow/bow. I made a very successful bow/bow pvp build because of their passive support. They don't have more class skills because they have such strong support in passives, the few class skills they have retain several benefits out of one skill. You list the buffs of multiple other classes but ignore what each lacks. Virtually no one has everything, and each has their weaknesses. Some classes have more Major/Minor buffs, others like Sorc have more buffs not tied to a Major/Minor system.
    Edited by Toc de Malsvi on January 25, 2018 8:18PM
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • xiZeroPointix
    xiZeroPointix
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    kylewwefan wrote: »

    Stam sorcs need access to more of there own class abilities is the point of the thread.
  • xiZeroPointix
    xiZeroPointix
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    Double post...i didnt mean to quote you kyle...the response was for Toc. Which I wanted to add that my stam sorc is one of my favorite toons to play. I moved away from the mag sorc meta and decided to make a stam toon and I really enjoy the stam version "the underdog" as others have put it. We both enjoy the stam sorc from the sound of it. I have not stated that the sorc is weak because it depends on skills outside of the class. The few class skills the stam sorc retains are very good and like I have said earlier the passives are great too..you are right about not having major and minor buffs attached which is also excellent cause they stack. Looking at other class skills they have abilites that do x damage and also apply debuffs to opponents as stamina morphs as well as mag based morphs, creating more diversity and choice. Stam sorc has diversity and choice, just not within its own class. The magicka version lacks a true spammable as well and has been the topic of debate on these forums on many occasions. Just as the ones that were stated by the OP. The statement was to cover the facts that while the stam sorc is strong...it is one of the only classes in which its class ability almost completely cater to its magicka based counter part..offering little as far as stamina morphs are concerned. Whilst also the majority of the sorcs class skills are more support and cc based even the magsorc has to use many skills from outside of its class. Not saying weak, but the lack of a spammable such as whip or jabs or surprise attack or undodgable un blockable birds ahem! Is really what both forms of the sorc lack. Not a rework of the buff system , but maybe a small tweak of underused skills to freshen up a class that has not changed its skill rotation since launch. Might bring a fun new perspective to the class that everyone might enjoy!
  • xiZeroPointix
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    eso_1.png[/quote]

    Found this in a dif post
  • Yubarius
    Yubarius
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    eso_1.png

    Found this in a dif post[/quote]

    Yup, perfect representation of my point. Yes, sorc has decent passive but they in no way make up for the extreme difference in buff and rebuff availability. And it's not like sorc is the only class that has damage bonus passives. NB has crit hit damage, templar has extra crit against blocking targets, burning light and weapon damage, warden gets damage amp from having animal skills, dk gets bonus damage to their poison abilities, and sorc has disintegrate and a weapon/spell damage bonus that is worse than fighters guild passive, and can't be used well cause we can't slot many useful sorc skills.
    • Yubarius - Magicka NB - Flawless Conqueror
    • YubariusX - Magicka Warden - Flawless Conqueror
    • Lord Yubarius - Stamina Sorc - Stormproof - Centurion
    • 'Rubick the Grand Magus - Magicka Sorc
    • Fair Child Tank - Stamina DK
    • Jaruko - Magicka Templar
    • Selthyn Bavailo - Mag DK
    • Bandit-The-Great - Stam Temp





  • xiZeroPointix
    xiZeroPointix
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    Yep and sorc is the only class with no native access to maim..defile..fracture and breach. These specific debuffs have to be applied for them or use non class specific skills to attain. I cant believe people think they are op. They are a strong class in the hands of a good player but as far as sheer class specific abilities the sorc seriously comes up short.
  • Valykc
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    They need a Stam ult morph too, grinding for DB or weapon ults is boring with healing negate and overload.
  • Oreyn_Bearclaw
    Oreyn_Bearclaw
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    That is very well thought out. Sorc is an interesting class. Their main strength is their stats, their main drawback is that they are in last place in terms of access to buffs. As the game has evolved, the later has become much more important. You have definitely highlighted their issues/problems quite well. When you compare either stam or magic sorc to the NB counterpart, the class becomes almost laughable. I am not calling for a NB nerf, but rather suggesting they be used as a guideline as they are perhaps the most well put together class in the game.

    Spammable: The crystal blast idea is interesting. I have been playing stam and magic sorc for years and never have I ever heard of any build ever that uses this skill. It's total f'ing garbage, they need to do something with it. While you are at it, crystal frags needs a buff as well. The recent nerf was way too much. It served as a quasi spammable for magic sorc, and like every other class spammable, it had a few features. With no stun, it is really lackluster in PVP. The other options here would be to tweak Dizzying Swing/WB and RapidStrikes. Rapid strikes has gone from a stamina staple to simply not being used anymore. Dizzying swing is the most unreliable skill in the game. It's powerful, but I absolutely hate making it the center of a build. It is one of the main reasons I currently dont play my stam sorc in PVP.

    Buffs: This is the greatest weakness to sorcs. I dont know what the answer is, but they simply need more access to class buffs. I would not even be opposed to reworking bound armaments/aegis into a long duration buff skill. Toggle skills that need to be on both bars are the number one reason that sorcs have very narrow builds. An overload bar does help this, but using an overload bar has it's own set of issues in any type of heavy combat situation. My overload bar is generally little more than a mobility bar. I think there could be some tweaking of how overload is activated to help here as well.

    Dark Deal/Conversion: This is one of those skills that is absolutely fabulous on paper, but not nearly as good in actual combat. You essentially need to use LOS if you every want to get this off in combat. It either needs to be shorter or uninterruptible or both. If you need to change the values, fine, but this skill can be a death sentence if you use it mid fight.
    That is very well thought out. Sorc is an interesting class. Their main strength is their stats, their main drawback is that they are in last place in terms of access to buffs. As the game has evolved, the later has become much more important. You have definitely highlighted their issues/problems quite well. When you compare either stam or magic sorc to the NB counterpart, the class becomes almost laughable. I am not calling for a NB nerf, but rather suggesting they be used as a guideline as they are perhaps the most well put together class in the game.

    Spammable: The crystal blast idea is interesting. I have been playing stam and magic sorc for years and never have I ever heard of any build ever that uses this skill. It's total f'ing garbage, they need to do something with it. While you are at it, crystal frags needs a buff as well. The recent nerf was way too much. It served as a quasi spammable for magic sorc, and like every other class spammable, it had a few features. With no stun, it is really lackluster in PVP. The other options here would be to tweak Dizzying Swing/WB and RapidStrikes. Rapid strikes has gone from a stamina staple to simply not being used anymore. Dizzying swing is the most unreliable skill in the game. It's powerful, but I absolutely hate making it the center of a build. It is one of the main reasons I currently dont play my stam sorc in PVP.

    Buffs: This is the greatest weakness to sorcs. I dont know what the answer is, but they simply need more access to class buffs. I would not even be opposed to reworking bound armaments/aegis into a long duration buff skill. Toggle skills that need to be on both bars are the number one reason that sorcs have very narrow builds. An overload bar does help this, but using an overload bar has it's own set of issues in any type of heavy combat situation. My overload bar is generally little more than a mobility bar. I think there could be some tweaking of how overload is activated to help here as well.

    Dark Deal/Conversion: This is one of those skills that is absolutely fabulous on paper, but not nearly as good in actual combat. You essentially need to use LOS if you every want to get this off in combat. It either needs to be shorter or uninterruptible or both. If you need to change the values, fine, but this skill can be a death sentence if you use it mid fight.

    Read the new patch notes. Dark deal can be interrupted but after 3 seconds essentially spammed without issue.

    Yeah, I have read about the overhaul of cast abilities, but I am reserving comment until I have a better chance to mess with them. It sounds like it might be a step in the right direction. I have never been impressed with the way CC immunity has functioned in this game, because it has basically been broken since launch. I will confess that I am slightly concerned that they seem to be making this system more complicated.
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