It's the PvP Sheilds, duh.....

GreenSoup2HoT · January 2018

Biro123 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Id be fine with shields being able to crit if i can crit on shields. Sorcs have no where near the amount of crit chance and crit damage compared to my 7 medium stamblade. I would melt sorcs. Duel Dagger nb would melt shields.

Also note that a none crit shield would remove a crit shield if casted after, meaning a sorc would rather not shield stack if they notice they got a crit shield. Which kinda helps the shield stacking issue.

Also creates build variety instead of just stack magicka.

Overall id be down for this.

That's not how stacking works

Im talking about how stacking would work IF you could crit a shield.

Sanctum74 · January 2018

Neoauspex wrote: »

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Neoauspex wrote: »

The problem is that the counters for shields are so specific that they aren't worth investing in, whereas the counters for other defenses are standard for any build, diverse in a way that they have an impact on any fight (except against shields). Everyone has armor, so penetration is a good stat to have (except against shields), crit is a good RNG based way to add damage (except against shields). Etc.

We have one armor said that is a complete hard counter, but both sides of the coin hate this. Do away with it. Change the CP tree that increases damage to shields (which nobody uses) so that it increases penetration damage on shields. Then you have to weigh how much overall damage you want to sacrifice to counter this type of defense, just like everything else.

The shattering blows cp passive should not be changed in my opinion. For 56 points you can increase your damage against shields by 20% which works great. If you changed it to penetration damage on shields then the passive would be worthless since shields have no resistance you would do the same amount of damage no matter how many points you put into it. Shattering blows and a good burst combo with cc works every time.

Why would you CC before the shields expire... Ok I'm not gonna debate your strategy at this time.

But if you put points into Shattering Blows, then you are taking points out of another tree that adds damage so you're not gaining 20% damage. If it scaled in the same way as spell/weapon penetration, where having x shield penetration means x% of the damage you do to a shield bypasses the shield and damages the player's health, then you have to make the same choices balance-wise in your build as you do versus all other forms of mitigation.

I don't cc before shields expire, but if you time your burst right to take the shield down with your cc right after then just repeat the burst combo and they are dead. Using a combination of soft and hard cc's also makes a big difference.

I'm at max cp so I am not losing out on damage by using shattering blows. There are diminishing returns with cp so going above 56 in most areas ends up being a waste.

I now understand what you meant by penetration, but I think that would just make it harder to kill sorcs. The little bit of extra damage to their health will just be negated by hot's and healing ward making it even harder to get their shield down.

I'd rather use shattering blows, get that shield down, and move on to the next. Although I would welcome the idea of making shields take crit damage and be vulnerable to status effects.

charley222 · January 2018

1- CC Immunity not working properly this is the main issue to fix complain and ask all balance you want is nothing vs to be stun to dead 0o because CC Immunity not working properly
2- after 4 year cyrodiil still crash on prime time and not fix , better balance will change nothing if you lag to dead ???

3- come on guy you still have hope for balance after this 4 year Oo sorry i have any faith on the people working on balance
the day i see earthgore make is introduction in the game i say to my self this team never learn from the pass mistake and will never understand crap about balance

yes is sad because elder scroll online have the possibility to be one of the great mmo the art really improve a lot sound voice acting story line is good , sad but but the combat really fail , i this point my only hope is zenimax get some back up to help the combat desinger my opinion thank you

Aedaryl · January 2018

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I hear a lot of proposed changes to balance PvP, increase damage.. messing with Off Balance, you won't be able to spam the same skill in a row etc, etc...

The problem with PvP is everyone always has a sheild, and nothing works on sheilds.
I really don't want to see sweeping changes to the game where once again, builds I worked on for years (like Concussion Build DK ) are suddenly worthless.. , this has been the discussion for years with why rotations don't work, PVE doesn't translate as well to PVP.

Most players in Cyrodil have sheilds
--- you can't Crit a sheild
-- you can't apply status effects, burning, chilled, concussed to sheild users..
there is huge reason why you don't see complex rotations in PVP, they don't work.....

If sheilds were just damage absorbers, that would be the beginning

(I also realize about 80% of PvP is one of 2 forms of a sheild stacking Sorc. I have one too. It's the easiest class in the game to play, you use two offensive skills, spam sheilds, hid behind pets, have a good self heal, can streak away, don't have to spread your champ points out like other classes, and you don't even have to target like stam classes, (not to mention Sheild Breaker was already nerfed off staves a few months ago)...... the targeting concept alone will still keep Sorcs OP, as you streak around and other classes can barely hit you)

Did you notice my little blinded the meta was around 1h&S Blocking ? Did you notice the two main defensive mechanics left (shield and dodge) are garbage when you look at block build ?

Did you notice shield are weaker the more ennemies you fight ? When you take coordinated burst ultimate, shield and low resistance behind just MELT. Blocktard survive. Did you noticed when you spam shield because you are hardly pressured you aren't using offensive skills ?

Did you notice the best game mode for shields aka duels didn't got won by shield user since years but by block users ?

Did you notice BG, and smallscales are won by block users ?

Nice troll 10/10.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · January 2018

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I hear a lot of proposed changes to balance PvP, increase damage.. messing with Off Balance, you won't be able to spam the same skill in a row etc, etc...

The problem with PvP is everyone always has a sheild, and nothing works on sheilds.
I really don't want to see sweeping changes to the game where once again, builds I worked on for years (like Concussion Build DK ) are suddenly worthless.. , this has been the discussion for years with why rotations don't work, PVE doesn't translate as well to PVP.

Most players in Cyrodil have sheilds
--- you can't Crit a sheild
-- you can't apply status effects, burning, chilled, concussed to sheild users..
there is huge reason why you don't see complex rotations in PVP, they don't work.....

If sheilds were just damage absorbers, that would be the beginning

(I also realize about 80% of PvP is one of 2 forms of a sheild stacking Sorc. I have one too. It's the easiest class in the game to play, you use two offensive skills, spam sheilds, hid behind pets, have a good self heal, can streak away, don't have to spread your champ points out like other classes, and you don't even have to target like stam classes, (not to mention Sheild Breaker was already nerfed off staves a few months ago)...... the targeting concept alone will still keep Sorcs OP, as you streak around and other classes can barely hit you)

You are so far off, it's not even funny. Shields are a laughable form of damage mitigation compared to block cost reduction and dodge chance in PVP.

You highlight all the pros of the shields without listing the cons. We call that bias. How about the fact that your resistances are meaningless when you have a shield up or the fact that blocking mitigates no damage against a shield even though it drains your stamina. How about the fact that shields have a such a short duration at this point that shield stacking requires essentially half of your rotation and 30% of your bar space, not to mention the enormous drain on resources.

At this point, anyone that thinks shields are OP in PVP simply has no clue what they are talking about. It is perhaps the worst survival tool in the game from a PVP standpoint. Shields are strong in PVE where the damage spikes are predictable and in 1v1 scenarios where one person might not be able to pressure you enough. The second you are outnumbered, shields are trash. Magic sorc has fallen to one of the worst magic classes in PVP at this point. The only reason people think they are OP at this point is because mages wrath inflates your KB ratio.

Vahrokh · January 2018

Yes, please make my class garbage in PvE like in 2015 and not wanted in any PvE any more again, so I can unsub and quit this whiners cesspool for another 2 years.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Yes, please make my class garbage in PvE like in 2015 and not wanted in any PvE any more again, so I can unsub and quit this whiners cesspool for another 2 years.

yeah because pve sorcs are totally wanted for shieldstacking right?
lol.

I mean seriously, your class goes naked into vMA and completes it.

DO I have to tell more?

FloppyTouch · January 2018

Most players have shields in pvp?

All stam builds don’t
Sword shield dks don’t

I think only light armor magic sorcs and magic nightblades use shields and that is not most pvp players

Beardimus · January 2018

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I hear a lot of proposed changes to balance PvP, increase damage.. messing with Off Balance, you won't be able to spam the same skill in a row etc, etc...

The problem with PvP is everyone always has a sheild, and nothing works on sheilds.
I really don't want to see sweeping changes to the game where once again, builds I worked on for years (like Concussion Build DK ) are suddenly worthless.. , this has been the discussion for years with why rotations don't work, PVE doesn't translate as well to PVP.

Most players in Cyrodil have sheilds
--- you can't Crit a sheild
-- you can't apply status effects, burning, chilled, concussed to sheild users..
there is huge reason why you don't see complex rotations in PVP, they don't work.....

If sheilds were just damage absorbers, that would be the beginning

(I also realize about 80% of PvP is one of 2 forms of a sheild stacking Sorc. I have one too. It's the easiest class in the game to play, you use two offensive skills, spam sheilds, hid behind pets, have a good self heal, can streak away, don't have to spread your champ points out like other classes, and you don't even have to target like stam classes, (not to mention Sheild Breaker was already nerfed off staves a few months ago)...... the targeting concept alone will still keep Sorcs OP, as you streak around and other classes can barely hit you)

Seriously? A NerfSorc thread now. That's actually hilarious.

Excuse me, ur obviously new to PvP and I shouldn't be rude. Wards really aren't that big a deal once you get I to it a bit more and learn to counter. Sorcs are in a terrible place right now in terms of damage output, really dont worry about them.

Biro123 · January 2018

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Id be fine with shields being able to crit if i can crit on shields. Sorcs have no where near the amount of crit chance and crit damage compared to my 7 medium stamblade. I would melt sorcs. Duel Dagger nb would melt shields.

Also note that a none crit shield would remove a crit shield if casted after, meaning a sorc would rather not shield stack if they notice they got a crit shield. Which kinda helps the shield stacking issue.

Also creates build variety instead of just stack magicka.

Overall id be down for this.

That's not how stacking works

Im talking about how stacking would work IF you could crit a shield.

Stacking isn't replacing the same shield (ie casting hardened while it is already up) - its adding another type of shield on to one you already have (casting harness when hardened is already up).
If they could crit, and your first shield (hardened) crit - then your second (harness) didn't crit.. You would still have the 2 shields up - including the crit-hardened..
There is no mechanism there to replace the crit-hardened with a non-crit shiled - UNLESS it was another hardened - buth then that wouldn't be shield-stacking.. If there's a term, I guess it would be called 'shield-replenishing'!