Non-pet sorcerer, dps and rotation hell

Octopuss · January 2018

I have a non-pet sorcerer I am struggling to achieve any meaningful dps with.
Up until today, the absolute maximum I was able to do on a dummy was 15k, 15,5 if I was lucky.
Today, I spent some time with a guildmate (who almost gave up) who tried to explain stuff to me and showed me a different rotation and whatnot. After a LONG time, I came to an uncertain conclusion I was missing most of the light attacks in the rotation, because apparently I was mashing the buttons too quickly. I have to point out I am still unable to do the damn animation cancelling properly (or at all).
My gear is 6x Julianos and 5x Netch's touch, two lightning infused staves, shock front, +dmg back. I am also CP505 or so.
The rotation I was trying to do was basically LL, Wall, Curse - swap - HA+Pulse, HA+Pulse - swap, LL, Wall - swap - and so on, basically Curse every other rotation (with LAs inbetween of course).
If I do the typical 3(4?)xLA+Pulse , I run out of magicka almost immediately. I also use Surge, not potions. I throw Elemental Rage in when/if it's available.

Doing this, and trying to fix the problem with light attacks, I managed to get from said 15k to about 17.
I just basically copied the rotation from Alcast.The guildmate suggested I use Curse first, followed by Clench (which would be used instead od Pulse, since I am not using Frags), and then basically like before. That felt awkward to use, plus I don't have room for Curse on the front bar as well, so I just changed my backbar to Curse-LL-Wall, and started doing HA+Clench, HA on the front bar.

I was also suggested various gear changes, namely using Ilambris helmet+shoulders, 5x Julianos and 3x Willpower. That only got my spell damage down to 2200 and the dps got lower, so I ditched that.
Interestingly, when I keep 5 pieces of Netch and replace two of Julianos with Ilambris, the dps is the same at worst or slightly better (can't really tell, my rotation is inconsistend and I can't really draw any conclusions, but I did get to 20k once for a while).

Obviously the longer I am trying the worse it gets, so I am back at 16k right now, irrelevant of rotation/gear

I still don't understand how can people do 30k+ without pets. I know it's supposedly possible, but I don't see how I could get even to 25 even with a perfect rotation.

Any tips welcome (minus comments like "use pets", "reroll", and the like).

Capt_Morgan · January 2018

For weaving light attacks, I've found the best thing is to get a rhythm. Imagine, almost like a beating heart after a short jog or moderate excercise. Thud-thud... Thud-thud... Thud-thud. And just get into the rhythm where every cast has this light attack then skill. Also for practice, it's better to start off using either recovery mundus or witch mothers brew, and boost that recovery up high. Then don't worry about the numbers, just practice the rotation, get it to where you can do it almost blindfolded. After that progressively lower you recovery while increasing your spell power, just little bit at a time until you find that perfect amount needed to sustain just enough to finish off the dps dummy. That is how you will get the highest numbers in the end.

WrathOfInnos · January 2018

I have good success with 5X Julianos and 5X Mother's Sorrow. Maelstrom lightning back bar, Master or Asylum Lightning Front Bar (with spammable clench or crushing shock respectively).

Rotation is:
LA, Unstable Wall, LA, Liquid Lightning, swap, LA, Spammable, HA, Spammable, swap, LA, Unstable Wall, LA, Haunting Curse, swap, LA, Spammable, HA, Spammable, swap, repeat

Before starting rotation, use curse, Destro ulti, and elemental drain. Use ele drain and Destro ulti on cooldown. Do 4 Endless fury instead of heavy attack and spammables under 20%.

Keep bound aegis and inner light on both bars.

This averages around 37k on a solo dummy parse, high 40's in trials.

SammyFable · January 2018

Ok first of all, your 6th piece of Julianos is a waste. If you want to keep 2 5 piece boni, go for a kena shoulder/hat for extra spell damage. Alternatively use any monster set with a +max magicka boni (illambri/grothdarr/domihaus).
Then one HA per rotation usually gives sufficent sustain. With that in mind, you'll have time for frags so put them in there aswell.
Last thing if you have trouble light attack weaving your skills, try to weave one at a time. So for example start LA+LL, LA+LL, LA+LL until you get your light attacks out every time. When this is done, add a second skill in there. So go LA+LL, LA+blockade, and repeat. Add more and more skills from your rotation in there and weave them until you get it right.

Octopuss · January 2018

Frags never proc for me, so I don't use it. When I experimented with it, I had to cast something several times before it would proc. That's extremely unreliable.
I know 6 pieces is a waste. I might have Iceaheart helmet somewhere. Or I might just use either of the Ilambris pieces. Either way, it's not the root of the problem

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2018

Since you are on PC, just get Combat Metrics. It'll explain the root of most of your problems. Post some screenshots of some tests you do on the 1.5 mil or 3 mil dummy.

You should be casting ele drain on the target or get a friend to do it. Will add a few K dps even if you do it yourself.

You should *always* be using destro ultimate at the start of the fight. It's easiest to have two target dummies- one you gain ultimate on, and one to do the test on.

You should have Power Surge up 100% of the time, but do not refresh it too often. It's a 30 second buff, so if you are refreshing it every 15 seconds, that's a DPS loss.

Replace 1 piece Julianos with a 1-piece perfect trait Undaunted item that gives +mag or +spell crit.

Your mundus should be Apprentice or Lover. Nothing else allowed.

Your skill bar with LL, Curse, Ele blockade should be used with the +spell dmg enchant weapon.

Obvi your weapons should be gold CP 160 and all 3 jewelry pieces should have *gold* spell damage enchants.

Waffennacht · January 2018

Octopuss wrote: »

Frags never proc for me, so I don't use it. When I experimented with it, I had to cast something several times before it would proc. That's extremely unreliable.
I know 6 pieces is a waste. I might have Iceaheart helmet somewhere. Or I might just use either of the Ilambris pieces. Either way, it's not the root of the problem

Yeah it probably is.

I don't see any rotation or weaving getting you an additional 15k dps.

Because you are currently running x6 of anything, we already know your gear is wrong.

So Logically, the conclusion, that you have poor gear, along with maybe something else.

Are your CP max and allocated correctly?
Are you running gold weapons?
Do you have the correct Glyphs/mundus/food?

I'm just gonna guess, but you don't have gold weapons do you?

Eatmyface · January 2018

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I have good success with 5X Julianos and 5X Mother's Sorrow. Maelstrom lightning back bar, Master or Asylum Lightning Front Bar (with spammable clench or crushing shock respectively).

Rotation is:
LA, Unstable Wall, LA, Liquid Lightning, swap, LA, Spammable, HA, Spammable, swap, LA, Unstable Wall, LA, Haunting Curse, swap, LA, Spammable, HA, Spammable, swap, repeat

Before starting rotation, use curse, Destro ulti, and elemental drain. Use ele drain and Destro ulti on cooldown. Do 4 Endless fury instead of heavy attack and spammables under 20%.

Keep bound aegis and inner light on both bars.

This averages around 37k on a solo dummy parse, high 40's in trials.

Why would you use wall before LL? LL has a 10 sec duration and wall only 8...

KingYogi415 · January 2018

There is not much point of practicing a rotation with surge in it. Anything you do 15k dps is fine.

If you are going for vet trials farm some spellpower pots and practice a real rotation.

DoctorESO · January 2018

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DoctorESO · January 2018

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WrathOfInnos · January 2018

Eatmyface wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

I have good success with 5X Julianos and 5X Mother's Sorrow. Maelstrom lightning back bar, Master or Asylum Lightning Front Bar (with spammable clench or crushing shock respectively).

Rotation is:
LA, Unstable Wall, LA, Liquid Lightning, swap, LA, Spammable, HA, Spammable, swap, LA, Unstable Wall, LA, Haunting Curse, swap, LA, Spammable, HA, Spammable, swap, repeat

Before starting rotation, use curse, Destro ulti, and elemental drain. Use ele drain and Destro ulti on cooldown. Do 4 Endless fury instead of heavy attack and spammables under 20%.

Keep bound aegis and inner light on both bars.

This averages around 37k on a solo dummy parse, high 40's in trials.

Why would you use wall before LL? LL has a 10 sec duration and wall only 8...

Unstable wall is 6s, and I use it every 6s. Liquid lightning goes with every other wall, and haunting curse alternates with liquid lightning.

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2018

KingYogi415 wrote: »

There is not much point of practicing a rotation with surge in it. Anything you do 15k dps is fine.

If you are going for vet trials farm some spellpower pots and practice a real rotation.

Ignore this nonsense. Not constructive and not accurate at all. You can do all vet trials, including hardmode, with Surge on your bar. It actually makes the life a lot easier for the healer while learning mechanics too!

X3ina · January 2018

If you're pc eu whisper me this eve i'll help you out. Just make sure you have teamspeak, srendarr and combat metrics installed.
@X3ina

NyassaV · January 2018

Whenever I do it I've managed 27k... Still not viable for the kind of things I do but better than what you are doing. Potions really help a ton.

Octopuss · January 2018

To answer some of the questions.
Yes my staves are golden.
Yes I use Apprentice Mundus stone.
I do have gold +dmg glyphs on my jewellry.
I did all the tests with CP150 magicka food active.

I'll post some Combat Metrics screenshots up when I've had enough coffee in the braincells. I normally use it, but never looked past the compact onscreen dps meter.

Can anyone comment on the order of the skills? And on the usage of Clench?

Nidro · January 2018

I will show you how i play in most Trials nowadays, maybe it will help you:

First of all Gear:

2x Ilamrbis
5x Julianos
3x Moondancer
all Divines 5-1-1

Vma Lightning Backbar (Infused with Increase Weapon and Spell dmg Glyph by 452)
Perfected Asylum Lightning Staff Front Bar (Infused with Fire Enchant)
(would use an Asylum Inferno instead if i had one.., but nvm)
(You can also use a normal Asylum Staff for this Setup, you will lose out 1-2k DPS probably but it doesnt really matter)

Mundus Stone: The Apprentice
Potions: Spellpower pots
Bufffood: Witchmother's Potent Brew / Clockwork Citrus FIlet

So yeah.. How do my Bars look?

Just Like this:
Frontbar: Crystal Frag - Haunted Curse - Force Pulse - Inner Light - Bound Aegis ULT: Meteor
Backbar: Lightning Blockade - Liquid Lightning - Mage's Wrath - Empowered Ward - Bound Aegis ULT: Elemental Rage

CPS:
Elemental Expert: 56
Elfborn: 44
Spell Erosion: 15
Master at Arms: 40
Thaumaturge: 75

Rotation:
Liquid Lightning
Elemental Rage (Ult)
Blockade
-Bar swap-
Curse (12 sec Duration, reapply on cooldown)
5x Force Pulse /Crystal Frag
-Bar Swap-
Liquid Lightning
Blockade
-Bar Swap-
Force Pulse/ Frags until u get 2nd Explosion of Curse, then reapply Curse
(Total of 6 attacks on front bar)
-Bar Swap-
Liquid Lightning
Blockade
-Bar Swap-
reapply Curse on 2nd Explosion
and just weave Force Pulse / Frags
(6 Casts total on Front bar).
bar swap..
and so on...

i was able to achieve 40-43k dps in Average with this build.
The only help i had was someone giving me Elemental Drain.

And of course i weave in a light Attack in between each cast of a skill!

Now you will ask yourself, but how can you sustain this without Heavy attacks?
Well, answer is relatively simple..
Use Withmother's Potent Brew.
Gives u an extra 319 base magicka regen.
You will lose a bit Max Health and Max Magicka due to this, but ist still enough for All Trials

I hope this helps you out a bit.
Due to the fact you only have 505 CP yet, i would just reduce elemental expert to 49 and master at arms and elfborn to something about 25-30...
You should be able to reach 30k easily with this

Yours ~~

Nidro

Octopuss · January 2018

Master at arms? That's not on Alcast build. Just saying.
I was looking at Staff expert. It seemed interesting, considering I do HA in every rotation. But I don't have points for experiments. I changed it yesterday so I have 75 in Thaumaturge, and the rest is 28 Elfborn, 49 Elemental Expert, 15 Spell Erosion.

my bars:
1: Pulse, Clench, Ward, Boundless storm, inner light - Meteor
2: Curse, LL, Wall, Mage's Wrath, Surge - Elemental Rage

I'd love to see someone replicate my exact setup to see what's possible. I know I could squeeze more out of the rotation (with the skills I am using), but I don't think it would be more than 2k or something. But then again, I still am not sure about the order.
That is, no Elemental drain, regular CP150 food, Julianos staves. The rest was posted somewhere above I believe.,

Haquor · January 2018

@Octopuss
If you are serious about increasing your dps you should be running spell power pots and drop surge. You get 100% uptime on spell damage and crit (i know you get crit from your inner) and regen that you are missing out by using trash pots. You have one extra slot on your bar and you dont have to cast surge periodically.

And why run pulse and clench? Is it just for the dot on bar swap? Get rid of boundless storm, get frags on the front in its place. Drop curse to the front aswel to replace clench. That way curse cast gives you another chance at proccing frags. Drop surge off your bar the back and move your shield to rear. This will allow you to run bound aegis on both bars with inner light on the front. So you have max magicka from aegis on both bars and then main bar with inner light and shooting star for even more.

1: curse, pulse, frags, inner light, aegis, shooting star

2: LL, Blockade, mages wrath, ward, bound aegis, rage

Someone applies ele drain, drop your ulti, LL-blockade- swap- curse- lightweave pulse till you need to swap and reapply dots. Frag cast on proc. Curse ofc after second pop. That is literally it. With a bunch of mistakes you should still easily hit 25k with non vma staff backbar and a random front.

I recommend getting inferno imperfect staff crom nas. Plenty of pug runs around.

Im assuming you are using a dot/buff tracker that will enable this?

jakeedmundson · January 2018

KingYogi415 wrote: »

There is not much point of practicing a rotation with surge in it. Anything you do 15k dps is fine.

If you are going for vet trials farm some spellpower pots and practice a real rotation.

Just fyi.... i hit 33k on a dummy with power surge back bar and inner light on both bars with my pet build. potions aren't completely necessary.
Of course you could do more with just using spell pots, but they aren't necessary for 99% of the content.

OP. It isn't your gear... the only thing you could really change has already been said. use a 1 pc monster shoulder that gives you magicka or spell damage in place of that 6th julianos piece.
Your rotation is what makes or breaks your dps test. It literally is the difference between 15k and 25k. It's more than likely that you're allowing your dots to drop off before you reapply them, not firing your frags/pulse correctly, timing heavy attacks wrong.
Best thing to do is watch a few videos of a build you like.. and practice. you'll get it down eventually

so don't be discouraged.

Octopuss · January 2018

Haquor wrote: »

@Octopuss
If you are serious about increasing your dps you should be running spell power pots and drop surge. You get 100% uptime on spell damage and crit (i know you get crit from your inner) and regen that you are missing out by using trash pots. You have one extra slot on your bar and you dont have to cast surge periodically.

And why run pulse and clench? Is it just for the dot on bar swap? Get rid of boundless storm, get frags on the front in its place. Drop curse to the front aswel to replace clench. That way curse cast gives you another chance at proccing frags. Drop surge off your bar the back and move your shield to rear. This will allow you to run bound aegis on both bars with inner light on the front. So you have max magicka from aegis on both bars and then main bar with inner light and shooting star for even more.

1: curse, pulse, frags, inner light, aegis, shooting star

2: LL, Blockade, mages wrath, ward, bound aegis, rage

Someone applies ele drain, drop your ulti, LL-blockade- swap- curse- lightweave pulse till you need to swap and reapply dots. Frag cast on proc. Curse ofc after second pop. That is literally it. With a bunch of mistakes you should still easily hit 25k with non vma staff backbar and a random front.

I recommend getting inferno imperfect staff crom nas. Plenty of pug runs around.

Im assuming you are using a dot/buff tracker that will enable this?

I will not be using special pots. I see no reason to do it. Surge is jus as good, and "trash" pots give me just as much magicka regen (if I remmeber correctly, every +magicka potion also has regen along with it). Besides, I am used to it. I might try in future, but as it is, this is certainly not the problem.

I just have Pulse and clench on the bar, but that doesn't necessarily mean I am using them. I just use Clench.
I will not be using Frags because what I do (HA rotation) doesn't proc them. It's just not working for me. That's why I have Clench.
I like Boundless Storm for when there's a lot of trash around. It's not necessary though.

I don't know what dot/buff tracker is. Do you mean Srendarr maybe? If yes, then yes, I already use it and see the timers.

Asardes · January 2018

What I use on my Sorcerer:

Gear: 5 Julianos 5/4 Infallible Aether w Maelstrom lightning back bar 1 Molag Kena or Iceheart 5L/1M/1H all divines with magicka enchants, infused lightning staves, flame damage front bar, berserker backbar. Stats are about 43K magicka, 57K spell critical, 3.5K spell damage, base recovery ~850 (doesn't run out anyway).

Bar setup:
Front: Mage's Wrath | Force Pulse | Hardened Ward* | Inner Light | Bound Aegis || Ice Comet
Back: Elemental Blockade | Liquid Lightning | Haunting Curse | Power Surge | Bound Aegis || Elemental Rage

*used Elemental Drain in that spot for testing purposes

Rotation: apply Elemental Drain, bar swap, buff with Power Surge:
Haunting Curse -> LA -> Liquid Lightning -> LA -> Elemental Blockade -> bar swap -> Force Pulse -> HA -> Force Pulse -> HA -> Force Pulse; repeat, reapply elemental drain every 2nd rotation and power surge every 2nd or 3rd depending when it runs out. The rotation is about 11.5-12s which lines up nicely with curse 2nd explosion.

I did a tad under 30K without trying to time my ultimates at the start. I also didn't practice much, and I'm sure someone better with weaving can push it to 35K or even above. For example in my rotation I always throw heavy attacks because I'm used to needing the extra magicka return for casting Hardened Ward all the time, since this is how I run vMA. But if something isn't bashing you you can go with 1 light weave instead of one heavy and still sustain it.

I find weaving with staves much easier than with bow on my stamina characters where I tend to get stuck on caltrops and ruin my rotation, but I will keep practicing when I find the time. I've also heard that 5p Infallible Aether is bugged again and remove Major Breach & Fracture.

LioraValkyrie · January 2018

Forget about light attack weaving and animation cancelling. Get your rotation perfect first, then worry about these things later. Apply Curse, Blockade, Lightning and Clench/Reach (if you use it) on cooldown, HA once very rotation for sustain, and spam your Crushing Shock. The difference between 15k dps and 40k dps is not weaving and animation cancelling. They can add about 5-6k dps tops.

Camb0Sl1ce · January 2018

I run 5 julianos 3 IA 2 ilambris vma back bar and the imperfect asylum lightning front bar(unfortunatley)
My rotation is LA-LL-LA-blockade swap LA haunting curse-LA FP/frag 1 heavy attack FP/drag-LA-FP/frat-LA-FP/frag swap and repeat except replace ypur next haunting curse with a force pulse or frag reapplying curse every other rotation. Also I'm able to use bi-stat food and can sustain the rotation easily, can hit 39.5k, hoping to break 40k when I can get a perfect staff.

Octopuss · January 2018

So what is the general opinion about the order of Curse, LL and Wall?

Camb0Sl1ce · January 2018

Well always LL before wall, as far as curse goes at least for me I've always thrown curse as the first skill on my front bar after swapping. Its just muscle memory for me from back when curse only lasted a few seconds and didn't have the second explosion. Being on console played a part as well, before we got our discount store buff trackers.

Mureel · April 2018

Camb0Sl1ce wrote: »

I run 5 julianos 3 IA 2 ilambris vma back bar and the imperfect asylum lightning front bar(unfortunatley)
My rotation is LA-LL-LA-blockade swap LA haunting curse-LA FP/frag 1 heavy attack FP/drag-LA-FP/frat-LA-FP/frag swap and repeat except replace ypur next haunting curse with a force pulse or frag reapplying curse every other rotation. Also I'm able to use bi-stat food and can sustain the rotation easily, can hit 39.5k, hoping to break 40k when I can get a perfect staff.

Can you reword or correct or articulate the bolded bit a little more?

I am looking at different rotations for my sorc and that part is giving me comprehension issues.