Can we do something about heavy armor meta in PvP?

Barbardin · January 2018

I feel like medium armor is more than useless right now

Lexxypwns · January 2018

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

Barbardin · January 2018

Ohh, good to hear, I love tanky builds myself, but when everyone start to use it, it becomes kinda ridiculous

geonsocal · January 2018

once those AoE caps come off - you might just need the medium to run away...

Sixty5 · January 2018

Medium armour isn't terrible, really it's only weakpoint is that it lacks proper defensive options, so if you want to run it, you need to find those elsewhere.

Fortified Brass and Armour Master (with Shuffle) actually work pretty well as options to stay in 5 medium while still remaining durable.

Personally I kinda like the playstyle of medium on classes that can support it. When you pull out a fight, it just feels like you outplayed the other guy.

Undefwun · January 2018

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

Barbardin · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

So what can be done?

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Barbardin wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

So what can be done?

Remove the sneaking passive from medium, replace it with something that doesnt favor nightblades only.
Something like reduced damage taken from ranged spells, while dodge rolling. would be a nice start.

other than that better medium armor sets. Heavy got sets that synergize with their playstyle, medium only has bone pirate as a solid set.
Not to mention dodge rolls eat a TON of stamina, and they get progressively more costy, Its not like shieldstacking.
And running around eats your stamina while also stops your regen.

Thogard · January 2018

What heavy armor meta?

I think what you meant to say was “wep dmg set” meta.

But I can see the reason for the mixup - there is a lot of overlap between the two.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Thogard wrote: »

What heavy armor meta?

I think what you meant to say was “wep dmg set” meta.

But I can see the reason for the mixup - there is a lot of overlap between the two.

What I find hilarious is how people blamed and got heavy armor nerfed for this.
There was literally NOTHING, yes, nothing wrong with wrath passive.

Every armor type has offensive and defensive passives. Wrath was the offense of heavy armor.
Its removal only destroyed builds that didn't rely on wep dmg sets.

My shacklebreaker-bone pirate build was one of those.
The nerfs forced me into using seventh legion+TK,
Which is also getting nerfed so Im very confused on what to do with my DK.

Mojomonkeyman · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

I agree with most of this. I think you missed one important aspect : The main reason I run heavy on my stamsorc is not magicka, I build to survive medium armor nightblades burst after fear in outnumbered situations. This has always been the benchmark for my stamina builds (whether they are able to survive an unblocked NB assault) and this is true for most of the stamina players I know.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

I agree with most of this. I think you missed one important aspect : The main reason I run heavy on my stamsorc is not magicka, I build to survive medium armor nightblades burst after fear in outnumbered situations. This has always been the benchmark for my stamina builds (whether they are able to survive an unblocked NB assault) and this is true for most of the stamina players I know.

stamblade is the exception to my list of reasons why medium armor is weak.
I just forgot to mention it.

Stamblade is a thing that uses medium armor to one or two shot other medium armor builds.
I'm getting so much hate for saying this, but medium armor will stay as a nightblade exclusive as long as they synergize so good with it.

Remember when heavy armor had block cost reduction? Only made sense to use it on a Dk back then.
Same thing with medium and stamblades. I mean, why play a medium armor anything when you can be a stamblade and have cloak, have assassin's whatever that procs for 10k damage, have fear, have amazing sustain,have a fast spammable you can weave with, best single target ult in the game, have literally anything you need to be a medium armor build?

Mojomonkeyman · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

I agree with most of this. I think you missed one important aspect : The main reason I run heavy on my stamsorc is not magicka, I build to survive medium armor nightblades burst after fear in outnumbered situations. This has always been the benchmark for my stamina builds (whether they are able to survive an unblocked NB assault) and this is true for most of the stamina players I know.

stamblade is the exception to my list of reasons why medium armor is weak.
I just forgot to mention it.

Stamblade is a thing that uses medium armor to one or two shot other medium armor builds.
I'm getting so much hate for saying this, but medium armor will stay as a nightblade exclusive as long as they synergize so good with it.

Remember when heavy armor had block cost reduction? Only made sense to use it on a Dk back then.
Same thing with medium and stamblades. I mean, why play a medium armor anything when you can be a stamblade and have cloak, have assassin's whatever that procs for 10k damage, have fear, have amazing sustain,have a fast spammable you can weave with, best single target ult in the game, have literally anything you need to be a medium armor build?

100% agreed.

Ragnaroek93 · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

I agree with most of this. I think you missed one important aspect : The main reason I run heavy on my stamsorc is not magicka, I build to survive medium armor nightblades burst after fear in outnumbered situations. This has always been the benchmark for my stamina builds (whether they are able to survive an unblocked NB assault) and this is true for most of the stamina players I know.

stamblade is the exception to my list of reasons why medium armor is weak.
I just forgot to mention it.

Stamblade is a thing that uses medium armor to one or two shot other medium armor builds.
I'm getting so much hate for saying this, but medium armor will stay as a nightblade exclusive as long as they synergize so good with it.

Remember when heavy armor had block cost reduction? Only made sense to use it on a Dk back then.
Same thing with medium and stamblades. I mean, why play a medium armor anything when you can be a stamblade and have cloak, have assassin's whatever that procs for 10k damage, have fear, have amazing sustain,have a fast spammable you can weave with, best single target ult in the game, have literally anything you need to be a medium armor build?

I think every stam Nb will agree that Cloak needs a nerf if medium armor gets buffed.

Pijng · January 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

I agree with most of this. I think you missed one important aspect : The main reason I run heavy on my stamsorc is not magicka, I build to survive medium armor nightblades burst after fear in outnumbered situations. This has always been the benchmark for my stamina builds (whether they are able to survive an unblocked NB assault) and this is true for most of the stamina players I know.

stamblade is the exception to my list of reasons why medium armor is weak.
I just forgot to mention it.

Stamblade is a thing that uses medium armor to one or two shot other medium armor builds.
I'm getting so much hate for saying this, but medium armor will stay as a nightblade exclusive as long as they synergize so good with it.

Remember when heavy armor had block cost reduction? Only made sense to use it on a Dk back then.
Same thing with medium and stamblades. I mean, why play a medium armor anything when you can be a stamblade and have cloak, have assassin's whatever that procs for 10k damage, have fear, have amazing sustain,have a fast spammable you can weave with, best single target ult in the game, have literally anything you need to be a medium armor build?

I think every stam Nb will agree that Cloak needs a nerf if medium armor gets buffed.

If they'll buff MA somehow AND fix the cloak – then they could nerf it. But how'd you want to see a nerf to cloak, in what way?

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

I agree with most of this. I think you missed one important aspect : The main reason I run heavy on my stamsorc is not magicka, I build to survive medium armor nightblades burst after fear in outnumbered situations. This has always been the benchmark for my stamina builds (whether they are able to survive an unblocked NB assault) and this is true for most of the stamina players I know.

stamblade is the exception to my list of reasons why medium armor is weak.
I just forgot to mention it.

Stamblade is a thing that uses medium armor to one or two shot other medium armor builds.
I'm getting so much hate for saying this, but medium armor will stay as a nightblade exclusive as long as they synergize so good with it.

Remember when heavy armor had block cost reduction? Only made sense to use it on a Dk back then.
Same thing with medium and stamblades. I mean, why play a medium armor anything when you can be a stamblade and have cloak, have assassin's whatever that procs for 10k damage, have fear, have amazing sustain,have a fast spammable you can weave with, best single target ult in the game, have literally anything you need to be a medium armor build?

I think every stam Nb will agree that Cloak needs a nerf if medium armor gets buffed.

Cloak is a problem because of nb tears in the first place.
ZOS couldn't fix it , so instead of fixing it they made it a god mode + invisibility button.

Its not just dizzying swing, they are also TOTALLY IMMUNE to dot builds.

Which would be totally fine , if there was a limit or downside to the cloak spam.
In my opinion its abusing cheesy mechanics and shouldn't be a thing,
A stamblade using cloak to gain an unfair advantage is fine, but Dk blockcasting is considered broken.

love this community man.

Dreth · January 2018

Heavy armor meta? Are we even playing the same game?

Heavy armor died with wrath passive and sustain changes. I can push max resistances in medium no issue and still get all of those juicy passives AND shuffle. I dont know anyone running heavy anymore outside of 7th or truth. The number of viable heavy armor sets is shrinking with every patch.

From a PVP standpoint, there is just not a whole lot of reason to run heavy, which is sad to me because its really killing build diversity. I'd like to see more heavy armor sets that give more flexibility so its more available to more builds. Medium will always be king for damage and mobility, as it should be, but right now heavy is just in a bad place with very few perks.

And regarding cloak, its next to useless. Buffing medium armor wont make cloak any more useful than it is now. There are so many counters to cloak its ridiculous. If you dont want to incorporate those counters into your build that is a personal decision.

lao · January 2018

Lexxypwns wrote: »

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

in what universe is 7th gonna be useless?...

2 secs cooldown on the heal. yea whatever. it still gives weapon dmg and if you actually take your time to check the combat log on how often the heal actually procs you would be surprised. ive had a 1v6 tower fight today that went on for like 5 minutes and checked how many procs i actually got. ill spare you the guessing. the answer is 3. literally 3 heals for 992 each. ofc the log didnt fit the entire fight but seriously ppl are making the heal sound much better than it actually is. the set was always taken for the burst potential. the heal is just a nice bonus. if it gets a 2 secs cooldown now and that exact fight happens again it would have been the exactly same amount of heals than prior to the nerf.

it might make a difference for megatanks when they try to tank 50 ppl at once but for the rest of us that actually do proper pvp it will hardly matter at all. it will be by no means anywhere close to beeing useless. infact its barely a nerf at all.

and tbh such a thing as a megatank that can survive beeing hit by a zerg by simply holding down block and rely on heal procs shouldnt be a thing at all. these types of builds are total cancer and should be completely removed from the game. personally i would even go further and make block work like a dodge roll so when you press it you block attacks for 2 secs and then it automatically goes off again and if you use it again within 4 secs it costs double the stam. and yes i know pvers would cry mad tears about that but you know what? i dont care at all. it would be an infinity times more skill based mechanic and pve should never hold back pvp balance and an increase of the skill ceiling. they just have to learn to deal with it, simple as that.

lao · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

^this

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

in what universe is 7th gonna be useless?...

Guess what? armor of the truth also has the weapon damage and it lasts 2x longer with almost permanent uptime, as long as you dodge something, it procs.

lao · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

in what universe is 7th gonna be useless?...

Guess what? armor of the truth also has the weapon damage and it lasts 2x longer with almost permanent uptime, as long as you dodge something, it procs.

sure but how does that make 7th useless. if you would really want to you could even run both. personally i will still use 7th after patch cos cba to pve and i prefer WWH for the extra health and ult gen as 2nd set anyways. if you´re just argueing that truth will be better than 7th after patch then sure you may be right about that but the difference isnt anywhere close to beeing big enough to justify boring myself with pve again. point is 7th will still be perfectly viable and if you´re not a megatank there will hardly be any difference at all compared to what it is now.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

lao wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

in what universe is 7th gonna be useless?...

Guess what? armor of the truth also has the weapon damage and it lasts 2x longer with almost permanent uptime, as long as you dodge something, it procs.

sure but how does that make 7th useless. if you would really want to you could even run both. personally i will still use 7th after patch cos cba to pve and i prefer WWH for the extra health and ult gen as 2nd set anyways. if you´re just argueing that truth will be better thn 7th after patch then sure you may be right about that but the difference isnt anywhere close to beeing big enough to justify boring myself with pve again. point is 7th will still be perfectly viable and if you´re not a megatank there will hardly be any difference at all compared to what it is now.

It makes a huge difference.
seventh legion can't be a back bar set because of low proc time.
Armor of the truth is a set you can run on your back bar, proc fast and painlessly and have the buff for 10 seconds.

It allows you to run 2 damage proc sets with a dizzy swing build and still have your asylum 2h, which is really strong.

Will seventh legion be ok? yes.
Did it just took a massive nerf and is no longer meta? yes.

Azurya · January 2018

Barbardin wrote: »

I feel like medium armor is more than useless right now

Medium armour was just like all stamina abilities and classes nerfed below level. ZOS hates Stamina, stamina builds, abilities, skills and ofc also all their armour.
So it gor nerfed, nerfed, nerfed and, oh, did I mentioned nerfed!?
Go anywhere in the game, you see 90% staves running around, 8 % 2-handed-users in heavy and less then 2% bow, DW in medium sneaking through the backallies of this game.
Prices for Rubedo-leather at any store, just do not talk about it, nobody needs it...............

and so all ppl went heavy in PvP, thinking and hoping they would be unkillable now,
and thereafter they start a new tread here about "this killed me, so it got to be nerfed, cauze I am such an awesome player, it is impossible that I died that way"

short report about the game in current status ^^

lao · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

in what universe is 7th gonna be useless?...

Guess what? armor of the truth also has the weapon damage and it lasts 2x longer with almost permanent uptime, as long as you dodge something, it procs.

sure but how does that make 7th useless. if you would really want to you could even run both. personally i will still use 7th after patch cos cba to pve and i prefer WWH for the extra health and ult gen as 2nd set anyways. if you´re just argueing that truth will be better thn 7th after patch then sure you may be right about that but the difference isnt anywhere close to beeing big enough to justify boring myself with pve again. point is 7th will still be perfectly viable and if you´re not a megatank there will hardly be any difference at all compared to what it is now.

It makes a huge difference.
seventh legion can't be a back bar set because of low proc time.
Armor of the truth is a set you can run on your back bar, proc fast and painlessly and have the buff for 10 seconds.

It allows you to run 2 damage proc sets with a dizzy swing build and still have your asylum 2h, which is really strong.

Will seventh legion be ok? yes.
Did it just took a massive nerf and is no longer meta? yes.

like i said its a huge nerf to megatanks which is a good thing. its hardly a nerf at all in normal 1vX fights where you have max 5-6 ppl hitting you as it procs rarely as it is. also to proc truth you have to burn ressources. for 7th you just have to watch when it procs and time your offensive windows accordingly. ppl are really overreacting to this change. its not that big of a deal.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

lao wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

in what universe is 7th gonna be useless?...

Guess what? armor of the truth also has the weapon damage and it lasts 2x longer with almost permanent uptime, as long as you dodge something, it procs.

sure but how does that make 7th useless. if you would really want to you could even run both. personally i will still use 7th after patch cos cba to pve and i prefer WWH for the extra health and ult gen as 2nd set anyways. if you´re just argueing that truth will be better thn 7th after patch then sure you may be right about that but the difference isnt anywhere close to beeing big enough to justify boring myself with pve again. point is 7th will still be perfectly viable and if you´re not a megatank there will hardly be any difference at all compared to what it is now.

It makes a huge difference.
seventh legion can't be a back bar set because of low proc time.
Armor of the truth is a set you can run on your back bar, proc fast and painlessly and have the buff for 10 seconds.

It allows you to run 2 damage proc sets with a dizzy swing build and still have your asylum 2h, which is really strong.

Will seventh legion be ok? yes.
Did it just took a massive nerf and is no longer meta? yes.

like i said its a huge nerf to megatanks which is a good thing. its hardly a nerf at all in normal 1vX fights where you have max 5-6 ppl hitting you as it procs rarely as it is. also to proc truth you have to burn ressources. for 7th you just have to watch when it procs and time your offensive windows accordingly. ppl are really overreacting to this change. its not that big of a deal.

Its also a huge nerf to my stamDK which isn't a mega tank.

Mega tanks don't run weapon damage builds.

Hutch679 · January 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

lao wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

7th is getting nerfed into uselessness. This makes tank and spank setups much more resource intensive since they’re losing tons of healing.

Medium just needs more appealing set choices imo

in what universe is 7th gonna be useless?...

Guess what? armor of the truth also has the weapon damage and it lasts 2x longer with almost permanent uptime, as long as you dodge something, it procs.

Guess what? Off balance has a 20 sec cooldown in the next patch.

Vapirko · January 2018

7th procs for 5 seconds, cooldown is 2. Therefore the proc will outlast the cooldown no? The only that takes a hit is the heal.

As for heavy I think you don’t realize how many stamina builds are actually playing medium right now. On my stam sorc I can get the same resists as heavy armor with more wpn damage, more mobility, more regen, more stamina, higher crit and access to shuffle. There’s almost no reason to play heavy.

Sawzallz · January 2018

How can. I save my wood elf sorc?

KingJ · January 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Undefwun wrote: »

Kinda ironic.

Medium armor is for stam users, but if bows (especially from stealth and taking advantage of how multiple hits can land at once) and 2H didn't hit so hard ppl wouldn't flock to heavy.

Or do I have it wrong?

quite the opposite, you are terribly wrong.

Bows hit hard, yes. But bow skills are dodgeable, and some of the strongest ones are reflectable. same with 2h skills. All 2h skills are dodgeable as far as I know, even brawler.

And dodging is the power of medium armor. a good stamblade will almost NEVER get hit by a dizzying swing.
(dodge roll into suprise attack weave, then cloak to confuse the hell out of the dizzy swing user, almost always works.)
there is a very good reason why stamsorcs are weak right now. both bow and 2h has reliability issues.

Then why nobody uses medium, if its so darn effective?
Because its not that effective against everything.

Because all magicka tons have undodgable burst tools.
And in some cases there is no way of stopping incoming burst from a magicka toon.

magden with bird spam+insane burst with their shalks combo.
magDk with their literally unstoppable petrify into power lash combo.
magsorcs with their undodgeable,unblockable burst and they do have a 28 meter undodgeable CC , which they combine with meteor.
magplars with their undodgeable jabs and beams...

you see, medium unpopularity has NOTHING to do with heavy armor being ''strong'' and everything to do with how magicka abilities work against it.

So as a result heavy armor is popular on stamina toons. Especially for solo players.

IF you nerf heavy armor, you're not doing medium any favors, you're just destroying stamina in PvP.

I agree with most of this. I think you missed one important aspect : The main reason I run heavy on my stamsorc is not magicka, I build to survive medium armor nightblades burst after fear in outnumbered situations. This has always been the benchmark for my stamina builds (whether they are able to survive an unblocked NB assault) and this is true for most of the stamina players I know.

stamblade is the exception to my list of reasons why medium armor is weak.
I just forgot to mention it.

Stamblade is a thing that uses medium armor to one or two shot other medium armor builds.
I'm getting so much hate for saying this, but medium armor will stay as a nightblade exclusive as long as they synergize so good with it.

Remember when heavy armor had block cost reduction? Only made sense to use it on a Dk back then.
Same thing with medium and stamblades. I mean, why play a medium armor anything when you can be a stamblade and have cloak, have assassin's whatever that procs for 10k damage, have fear, have amazing sustain,have a fast spammable you can weave with, best single target ult in the game, have literally anything you need to be a medium armor build?

I think every stam Nb will agree that Cloak needs a nerf if medium armor gets buffed.

While I might agree i would like a buff to Meduim and for them to leave cloak alone or add purge back but I'm selfish.

lao · January 2018

Vapirko wrote: »

7th procs for 5 seconds, cooldown is 2. Therefore the proc will outlast the cooldown no? The only that takes a hit is the heal.

As for heavy I think you don’t realize how many stamina builds are actually playing medium right now. On my stam sorc I can get the same resists as heavy armor with more wpn damage, more mobility, more regen, more stamina, higher crit and access to shuffle. There’s almost no reason to play heavy.

id like to see that build. i doubt you can get 5k weapon dmg while also maintaining 21k resists (26k with snb) in medium. also id pick forward momentum and increased healing and max hp/regen from heavy and the 25% more stam regen on heavy attacks + constitution over shuffle and like what? 5% more crit? any day of the week. dont get me wrong, im not saying medium is completely bad but better than heavy? nope, not even close.