The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of May 13:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 13
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 14, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – May 13
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – May 14, 9:00AM EDT (13:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.4 on the PTS on Monday at 10:00AM EDT (14:00 UTC).
Fixing MageDK (PVE)
Narvuntien
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Okay so there has been a lot of vitriol and anger in the recent days and plenty of anxiety form dragonmage players.
About me: I have been playing just over a year. I have only one PVE DPS... Guess what its a dragonmage... I made her before morrowind resource changes. I am making my first tentative steps towards endgame play. But right now..... I cannot.... I just don't have enough DPS or sustain. But that also means I am no expert on trials dps or anything.
What is the issue with dragonmages?
The issues are two fold.
1. In order to maximise their damage they have to stand at close range, this makes them very different to other mage classes.
2. They don't have enough in kit sustain to pay for their high mana cost abilities.
Why are people freaking out about the off balance changes?
Because there was one way to avoid that second issue... freee power lashes. But a class shouldn't hinge on a single ability or game mechanic like that. That is bad class design.
Why do dragonmages have such an issue with sustain?
Because during the morrowind sustain changes (decimation) the Battle Roar passive stopped scaling with magicka pool. This was great for Dragonknight tanks, which now completely dominate the endgame tank role since they are now the only role that can easily self sustain as a tank (in combination with helping hands). But for a dragonmage the amount of magicka returned by the passive is a drop in an ocean compared to their skill costs.
Every other class has some kind of resource regen or cost reduction somewhere in their passives. Dks only have flat return, great for tanking terrible for everything else.
Why not just heavy attack?
DKs have heavy attack amps, but there is a big problem... the first issue.... they are standing in melee using flame staffs. The heavy attack time is too long when they also have to be avoiding mechanics at that range. I have started many a heavy attack only to have to cancel it to shield or roll something. The strong heavy attacks is what makes stam DK so strong in PVE, with the fast easy to fit into a rotation dual wield heavies available to them.... Staves though, particularly flame staves are really limiting.
How do we fix it?
Does it need fixing? Yes too many people enjoy the fantasy of being a pyromancer, Dragonmages really make you feel like everything is tinder for your flames.. it feels good... until endgame.
1. Are we okay with dragonmages being close range mages?: I think we are, I think it gives them nice strategic differences to other mages, even if its forcing them to fight with stam dps for spots. There was talk about increasing the speed of heavy attacks. This is an option for helping out the magedk sustain, if you can complete a heavy without the dots falling off they would be in a better spot.
2. Magicka sustain!!!!!!!! specifically sustain that properly scales with your magicka pool. You can start with making battle roar scale again, however, stamdks don't need help with that. Instead of having free spells if meet a condition. They need to have some of the tools other classes have when it comes to gaining magicka regen when some skills are used or slotted.
3. Magicka skill costs. This I feel is the easiest way to improve the performance of dragonmages. Just cut the cost of their abilities. There is far too many 4K magicka costs in their key abilities. I am looking at you Ash Cloud.
Well I have to go.... go tell me where I am wrong in the comments below.
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About me: I have been playing just over a year. I have only one PVE DPS... Guess what its a dragonmage... I made her before morrowind resource changes. I am making my first tentative steps towards endgame play. But right now..... I cannot.... I just don't have enough DPS or sustain. But that also means I am no expert on trials dps or anything.
What is the issue with dragonmages?
The issues are two fold.
1. In order to maximise their damage they have to stand at close range, this makes them very different to other mage classes.
2. They don't have enough in kit sustain to pay for their high mana cost abilities.
Why are people freaking out about the off balance changes?
Because there was one way to avoid that second issue... freee power lashes. But a class shouldn't hinge on a single ability or game mechanic like that. That is bad class design.
Why do dragonmages have such an issue with sustain?
Because during the morrowind sustain changes (decimation) the Battle Roar passive stopped scaling with magicka pool. This was great for Dragonknight tanks, which now completely dominate the endgame tank role since they are now the only role that can easily self sustain as a tank (in combination with helping hands). But for a dragonmage the amount of magicka returned by the passive is a drop in an ocean compared to their skill costs.
Every other class has some kind of resource regen or cost reduction somewhere in their passives. Dks only have flat return, great for tanking terrible for everything else.
Why not just heavy attack?
DKs have heavy attack amps, but there is a big problem... the first issue.... they are standing in melee using flame staffs. The heavy attack time is too long when they also have to be avoiding mechanics at that range. I have started many a heavy attack only to have to cancel it to shield or roll something. The strong heavy attacks is what makes stam DK so strong in PVE, with the fast easy to fit into a rotation dual wield heavies available to them.... Staves though, particularly flame staves are really limiting.
How do we fix it?
Does it need fixing? Yes too many people enjoy the fantasy of being a pyromancer, Dragonmages really make you feel like everything is tinder for your flames.. it feels good... until endgame.
1. Are we okay with dragonmages being close range mages?: I think we are, I think it gives them nice strategic differences to other mages, even if its forcing them to fight with stam dps for spots. There was talk about increasing the speed of heavy attacks. This is an option for helping out the magedk sustain, if you can complete a heavy without the dots falling off they would be in a better spot.
2. Magicka sustain!!!!!!!! specifically sustain that properly scales with your magicka pool. You can start with making battle roar scale again, however, stamdks don't need help with that. Instead of having free spells if meet a condition. They need to have some of the tools other classes have when it comes to gaining magicka regen when some skills are used or slotted.
3. Magicka skill costs. This I feel is the easiest way to improve the performance of dragonmages. Just cut the cost of their abilities. There is far too many 4K magicka costs in their key abilities. I am looking at you Ash Cloud.
Well I have to go.... go tell me where I am wrong in the comments below.
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coplannb16_ESO✭✭✭✭it is not only about sustain. The passives in general are weak. Having paper armor and beeing up close front to use your class skills is not helping either. The class is so bottlenecked into HA/S/B it is not even funny and everything cool/unique was/is beeing removed. Continuesly patch after patch
e.g. evasion on Cinder Storm, World in Flames skill, disorient on petrify, shard nerf, Wings nerf... multiple nerfs to ultimates (esp. Standard) and ult generation. Then they slapped some crappy semi healing functionality on skills like stone fist and Flames og Oblivion... bleah.
comparing this to other games. You know, if we were a true pbaoe / melee spellcaster in light armor we would have some serious pbaoe damage at out disposable (Mana Enchanter in DAoC for instance).
The risk needs to be balanced versus the rewards. However even if we are always in melee range we are outdamaged by like every class and spec nowadays (even stam DKs lol).
Why bring a mDK when you are better of with every other magica class? magSorc and magBlade are so out of reach for us it is insane...
in PvP out dots are cleansed all the time anyway.
Even NPCs laugh at us (CoA I Boss is using a 28m range burning embers shot on you whichs dot continuesly hit harder lol)...
At this point. If they want to allow DKs to do anything but tank they need a compete remake. the class is not compatible to current state of the game (playing one since beta).
PvP is about mobility and burst. We lack both.
PvE is about sustain and DPS (from range). Have fun heavy attacking...
And as long as classes only have 3 class skill lines, please ZOS for the love of god, stop that crap and giving us heal-skill options. We are either tanks or DDs and we need approbriate skills for that setting. Wardens and Templars do the healing job so much better...max level: mDK, stamBlade, stamSorc, magPlar, mDen, stamDen, magBlade, stamCro
ESO+
# of mules: 4 (FULL)
maxed bank: FULL -_-
Stop the grind! Get rid of stupid events and daily-quest gallore. Get rid of "have a chance of 1 in a million to get a piece of 1 in 30 to get a stupid motif or pet... wtf..."
And at this point just remove all classes and have everyone choose their set of skills. then balance accordingly to skills always used vs. skills never used.3 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Disagree about magDK lacking mobility. @DDuke has shown that it´s not the case in PvP by by using empowering chains as a gapcloser in PvP (When it´s working properly of course but that´s another discussion). The burst damage he manage to cause in this patch with his magDK is good. Sustained pressure is sometimes more lethal than burst if you ask me.
ZOS only need to fix magDK´s sustain issues in PvE and the class is back on track again. Pre-Morrowind it wasn´t any problems to do a 40k+ parse (solo) since you could sustain a molten whip rotation. The damage capacities is there for magDK, and I would even dare to say it can compete with other melee stamina builds, but only if it gets it´s old sustainability back.3 -
kojou✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Disagree about magDK lacking mobility. @DDuke has shown that it´s not the case in PvP by by using empowering chains as a gapcloser in PvP (When it´s working properly of course but that´s another discussion). The burst damage he manage to cause in this patch with his magDK is good. Sustained pressure is sometimes more lethal than burst if you ask me.
ZOS only need to fix magDK´s sustain issues in PvE and the class is back on track again. Pre-Morrowind it wasn´t any problems to do a 40k+ parse (solo) since you could sustain a molten whip rotation. The damage capacities is there for magDK, and I would even dare to say it can compete with other melee stamina builds, but only if it gets it´s old sustainability back.
I agree with this. The "old" sustain was dependent on so many things that were nerfed though. CP cost reduction was removed, CP regen was reduced to 15%, Light armor regen and cost reduction were reduced, battle roar was nerfed into the ground, the cooldown on shards and orbs was combined and orbs was nerfed so that you had to be the one that took the synergy to get the benifit...etc...
A lot of these things affected all classes, but Magicka DK is dependant on Battle Roar and heavy attacks for resources. They have no regen related passives or other skills that just magically give them back magicka like other classes do. Also, at least with Nightblades, Sorcs, Templars, and Wardens there is a "ranged kit" you can work with so you don't have to compete directly with Stamina DPS. Magicka DK's have to be within 5 meters for Burning Embers and 7 meters for Molten Whip.
They either need to be the Melee Magic class that does the same DPS as stamina builds (Cost reduction and/or Battle Roar buff), or they need to have range added to Burning Embers and Molten Whip (make both 10 m), so they aren't competing for melee spots.Playing since beta...1