Fang Lair Dungeon, and the Dev Statement

RouDeR · January 2018

I puged the Dragon Bones Dlc dungeons on vet few hours after the PTS droped . Nothing too hard realy , just take your time to leaen the mechanics and dont be a "patato" player (light attack spammer).

logarifmik · January 2018

A game without a little bit of frustration is not my type of a game.

teiselaise · January 2018

JD2013 wrote: »

Take the time to learn mechanics.

Don’t run with PUG.

Profit.

Honestly if people spent a quarter of the time they spend complaining to just learn some mechanics, we might have a few less complaints.

Well yeah, there would be no people to complain then...

ThePrinceOfBargains · January 2018

New Vet DLC dungeons aren’t very difficult, so I’m not sure what they’re talking about. The real factor is the drastic difficulty spike between vet and vet HM bosses.

I initially thought we’d see a drastic increase in the vampire population due to that new skin. But that’s not going to happen, because most players won’t be getting anywhere near that skin.

Alcast · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

Those new dungeons are way easier (without hardmode) than Mazzatun or Cradle for example. HOWEVER, you still will have to learn the mechanics, so buzzing through without any problems will not be the case, but it will definitely not be as frustrating as in previous dlc. Because you want to learn, to progress right?

Inb4 ppl go complain on forum when they wipe ONCE without the willingness to learn the mechanics of the fights :clap:

Loc2262 · January 2018

Alcast wrote: »

Inb4 ppl go complain on forum when they wipe ONCE without the willingness to learn the mechanics of the fights :clap:

I'm not gonna complain, but agree with you!

I watched the PTS dungeon run streams you posted on Youtube, and can confirm that even Alcast and his "god player" group wiped numerous times before getting the mechanics right.

It would seem that especially the hard modes did somewhat frustrate you.

I haven't tested the new dungeons yet, want to wait a few PTS cycles since they're gonna change a lot anyway. So right now, how difficult are the new dungeons compared to Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath Hold? With and without HM.

Vahrokh · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

Translated:

"Hey, we just released another pointless expansion consisting of two dungeons nobody will run, exactly like we did in the past".

Aisle9 · January 2018

HotR dungeons and God tier dps in the same argument...

Are we playing the same game ? The game with dungeons with scripted fights that force you to stop hitting what you're hitting to do mechanics ?

But, hey, I may be wrong, maybe Domihaus can be burned, maybe I'm just not doing how it's supposed to be done(TM)...

Then again, maybe, just maybe, a bit of challenge is actually appealing to some players...

Just saying.

Vahrokh wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

Translated:

"Hey, we just released another pointless expansion consisting of two dungeons nobody will run, exactly like we did in the past".

I'm running the new dungeons as many times as I can. Got a bunch of achievements to collect, and, to be honest, I genuinely find Falkreath Hold a fun and well designed dungeon.

Oh noes, "you" and "everyone" don't mean the same thing...

latest?cb=20130328215316

Vahrokh · January 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

HotR dungeons and God tier dps in the same argument...

Are we playing the same game ? The game with dungeons with scripted fights that force you to stop hitting what you're hitting to do mechanics ?

But, hey, I may be wrong, maybe Domihaus can be burned, maybe I'm just not doing how it's supposed to be done(TM)...

Then again, maybe, just maybe, a bit of challenge is actually appealing to some players...

Just saying.

Vahrokh wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

Translated:

"Hey, we just released another pointless expansion consisting of two dungeons nobody will run, exactly like we did in the past".

I'm running the new dungeons as many times as I can. Got a bunch of achievements to collect, and, to be honest, I genuinely find Falkreath Hold a fun and well designed dungeon.

Oh noes, "you" and "everyone" don't mean the same thing...

Good for you.
I've not played ESO for 2 years. Came back and found out nobody wants to do DLC instances. Not even easy WGT.

2 guilds I am in, are trial guilds and don't do 4 men. Other specific 4 men guilds I have joined for - guess what - do 4 men, organize 4 men all day long EXCEPT DLC.
And if I try to PUG... good luck. It's easier to die of cold in hell than to complete a DLC instance with a PUG.

Ragnarock41 · January 2018

one does not simply pug his way into dlc dungeons.

Inarre · January 2018

He's right. It wasn't frustrating.

It was enraging

Asardes · January 2018

If people in a PvE guild can't even do DLC dungeons on vet that guild is useless. Find one that has better people in it. Even in my trading guilds I could find a decent group to do those

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Good for you.
I've not played ESO for 2 years. Came back and found out nobody wants to do DLC instances. Not even easy WGT.

2 guilds I am in, are trial guilds and don't do 4 men. Other specific 4 men guilds I have joined for - guess what - do 4 men, organize 4 men all day long EXCEPT DLC.
And if I try to PUG... good luck. It's easier to die of cold in hell than to complete a DLC instance with a PUG.

I play on PC/NA, so no voice chat for PUGs. Pugging DLCs is doable, but wipes are likely.

I PUGged nRoM in a group with nobody who'd done it before and one player under Level 50.
I PUGged vWGT within the first week or two I started PUGging dungeons.
I also PUGged nWGT on a sorcerer healer.

And I've PUGged vet HM on a variety of non-DLC dungeons, including some of the harder ones, generally without wipes.

Vahrokh · January 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Good for you.
I've not played ESO for 2 years. Came back and found out nobody wants to do DLC instances. Not even easy WGT.

2 guilds I am in, are trial guilds and don't do 4 men. Other specific 4 men guilds I have joined for - guess what - do 4 men, organize 4 men all day long EXCEPT DLC.
And if I try to PUG... good luck. It's easier to die of cold in hell than to complete a DLC instance with a PUG.

I play on PC/NA, so no voice chat for PUGs. Pugging DLCs is doable, but wipes are likely.

I PUGged nRoM in a group with nobody who'd done it before and one player under Level 50.
I PUGged vWGT within the first week or two I started PUGging dungeons.
I also PUGged nWGT on a sorcerer healer.

And I've PUGged vet HM on a variety of non-DLC dungeons, including some of the harder ones, generally without wipes.

Congrats, NA players have the guts to try.
If I queue up at 7pm for vRoM or vBF, at 11pm the queue is still running.
And for WGT / ICP / FH / CoS, I can find about 2 pops, each of which is stuck at last boss or the one before.

FrancisCrawford · January 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Good for you.
I've not played ESO for 2 years. Came back and found out nobody wants to do DLC instances. Not even easy WGT.

2 guilds I am in, are trial guilds and don't do 4 men. Other specific 4 men guilds I have joined for - guess what - do 4 men, organize 4 men all day long EXCEPT DLC.
And if I try to PUG... good luck. It's easier to die of cold in hell than to complete a DLC instance with a PUG.

I play on PC/NA, so no voice chat for PUGs. Pugging DLCs is doable, but wipes are likely.

I PUGged nRoM in a group with nobody who'd done it before and one player under Level 50.
I PUGged vWGT within the first week or two I started PUGging dungeons.
I also PUGged nWGT on a sorcerer healer.

And I've PUGged vet HM on a variety of non-DLC dungeons, including some of the harder ones, generally without wipes.

Congrats, NA players have the guts to try.
If I queue up at 7pm for vRoM or vBF, at 11pm the queue is still running.

Well, I queue as healer.

And except for WGT -- which lots of people including me want to farm in normal and vet mode alike -- I've never actually queued for a DLC dungeon on purpose. (E.g., the RoM run was during the Random Normal event.)

munster1404 · January 2018

That's why I'm happy running normal dungeons. I'm not chasing any gear in particular nor DPS. Tbh, my single target dps even at max CP is only 17K on magicka and 12K on Stam. Crafted stuff is good enough for players of my calibre anyway. I always found it mind boggling why people are so adamant in bringing a competitive element into a virtual setting of all places. No thanks but RL is stressful and competitive enough. I game to relieve stress not to relive it.

Yolokin_Swagonborn · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vet DLC dungeons are all about mechanics. You can beat them with like 5k DPS.

DPS race isn't a good mechanic. There are plenty of interesting mechanics that ZOS could use, by they always seem to default back to DPS race like they've run out of ideas.

The other one that is annoying is the guaranteed one shot. Doesn't matter how much health you have, or if you have 40k sheilds on you, you die to 20 damage no matter what. That is just disrespectful of our builds. Why build tanky or use shields if the game gets to cheat and ignore them?

Both of these mechanics aren't fun. they are lazy and frustrating.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vet DLC dungeons are all about mechanics. You can beat them with like 5k DPS.

Well this is patently false.

Try killing Domihaus when he gets below 20% with 5k dps. You'll be drowning in atronachs eventually.

Cryptical · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

On Xbox NA:
I’ve pugged both vet bloodroot and vet falkreath on my healer.

My first complete of each was in a pug.

It’s as simple as this: people who signed up on the activity finder intend on getting the completion. People who just gathered together in guild chat and went along with the group seem to clutter up chat with commentary about how such-and-such was bull carp because they really were blocking etc.

More than half the time I prefer the group finder for that reason.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

Cryptical wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

On Xbox NA:
I’ve pugged both vet bloodroot and vet falkreath on my healer.

My first complete of each was in a pug.

It’s as simple as this: people who signed up on the activity finder intend on getting the completion. People who just gathered together in guild chat and went along with the group seem to clutter up chat with commentary about how such-and-such was bull carp because they really were blocking etc.

More than half the time I prefer the group finder for that reason.

I have the exact opposite experience with the group finder. It seems to me that most of the time, players that are queuing for vet DLC dungeons in the activity finder are looking for a carry or don't understand how difficult the content is. I have had a much better experience with the vet DLCs with people i found in guild or zone chat where I can chat with them before-hand and ask what gear they are running and we can all figure out if the others have completed the content or not. Most of the time when I do a vet random and I get a DLC dungeon or try to pug a specific vet DLC dungeon, the other players have either not done the content before or are silent and do not respond when I ask.

I almost always try to avoid using the group finder from any vet DLC dungeon and will not use it for them unless I have at least 1 other player queuing with me who i trust implicitly which is only a couple of my friends.

BuddyAces · January 2018

HOTR dungeons are the two best dungeons in the game. Love the HM on both. Don't change.

Joy_Division · January 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

HotR dungeons and God tier dps in the same argument...

Are we playing the same game ? The game with dungeons with scripted fights that force you to stop hitting what you're hitting to do mechanics ?

But, hey, I may be wrong, maybe Domihaus can be burned, maybe I'm just not doing how it's supposed to be done(TM)...

Then again, maybe, just maybe, a bit of challenge is actually appealing to some players...

Just saying.

Vahrokh wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

Translated:

"Hey, we just released another pointless expansion consisting of two dungeons nobody will run, exactly like we did in the past".

I'm running the new dungeons as many times as I can. Got a bunch of achievements to collect, and, to be honest, I genuinely find Falkreath Hold a fun and well designed dungeon.

Oh noes, "you" and "everyone" don't mean the same thing...

Good for you.
I've not played ESO for 2 years. Came back and found out nobody wants to do DLC instances. Not even easy WGT.

2 guilds I am in, are trial guilds and don't do 4 men. Other specific 4 men guilds I have joined for - guess what - do 4 men, organize 4 men all day long EXCEPT DLC.
And if I try to PUG... good luck. It's easier to die of cold in hell than to complete a DLC instance with a PUG.

So what do you and the OP suggest ZoS should do?

Let me guess? 100% cater to your skill level, your CP standards, your guilds situation, your contact list such that you can complete these dungeons without so much of an inconvenience or motivation for you to improve you play, expand your contact list, or look for better and more diverse guilds?

The fact that there is already a Normal mode intended for "non God tier players" and a regular veteran mode that is absolutely doable without top tier players is not enough. It never is. I don't even know why Zos bothers with "normal" and "hard mode" because players who, for whatever reason, complain that they can't do the hardest content and that having different difficulty tiers to try and accommodate everyone is not good enough, rather the DLC releases cater to people with this attitude:

Healers are the easiest Role in ESO. It's why I main one in Dungeons. Well, when I say "easiest", I mean it has the least learning curve and gear prep. Any MagPlar wearing Julianos and a Healer Monster Set can be a good Healer in Vet Dungeons so long as they have a decent rotation of Buffs and Heals. But the DPS and Tanks especially REALLY need to know what they're doing for the run to go smoothly.

If people weren't so blase about how stuff was so "easy" and how it's the responsibility of the other three players to carry them, then maybe they wouldn't find the content so hard and maybe they'd be asked/invited to groups rather than having to PuG.

Vahrokh · January 2018

Apache_Kid wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vet DLC dungeons are all about mechanics. You can beat them with like 5k DPS.

Well this is patently false.

Try killing Domihaus when he gets below 20% with 5k dps. You'll be drowning in atronachs eventually.

Even really trivial Direfrost Keep: the last boss self heals. With 5k DPS all it takes is for 1 guy to not immediately get free (usually it takes 1-2 seconds) of the boss ability to self heal and you have to grind her again.

Vahrokh · January 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

HotR dungeons and God tier dps in the same argument...

Are we playing the same game ? The game with dungeons with scripted fights that force you to stop hitting what you're hitting to do mechanics ?

But, hey, I may be wrong, maybe Domihaus can be burned, maybe I'm just not doing how it's supposed to be done(TM)...

Then again, maybe, just maybe, a bit of challenge is actually appealing to some players...

Just saying.

Vahrokh wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

Translated:

"Hey, we just released another pointless expansion consisting of two dungeons nobody will run, exactly like we did in the past".

I'm running the new dungeons as many times as I can. Got a bunch of achievements to collect, and, to be honest, I genuinely find Falkreath Hold a fun and well designed dungeon.

Oh noes, "you" and "everyone" don't mean the same thing...

Good for you.
I've not played ESO for 2 years. Came back and found out nobody wants to do DLC instances. Not even easy WGT.

2 guilds I am in, are trial guilds and don't do 4 men. Other specific 4 men guilds I have joined for - guess what - do 4 men, organize 4 men all day long EXCEPT DLC.
And if I try to PUG... good luck. It's easier to die of cold in hell than to complete a DLC instance with a PUG.

So what do you and the OP suggest ZoS should do?

Let me guess? 100% cater to your skill level, your CP standards, your guilds situation, your contact list such that you can complete these dungeons without so much of an inconvenience or motivation for you to improve you play, expand your contact list, or look for better and more diverse guilds?

The fact that there is already a Normal mode intended for "non God tier players" and a regular veteran mode that is absolutely doable without top tier players is not enough. It never is. I don't even know why Zos bothers with "normal" and "hard mode" because players who, for whatever reason, complain that they can't do the hardest content and that having different difficulty tiers to try and accommodate everyone is not good enough, rather the DLC releases cater to people with this attitude:

My skill level is decent enough to do all vet trials and some hm trials and so are my CP.

You are really addressing the wrong guy, because (feel free to ask in my guilds) I am always the guy pushing to stay up trying hm trial longer, to try all hm DLC dungeons and so on.

BUT

I cannot impose my "the harder it is, the more fun I get" mentality on the others. The others HATE DLC vet and hm dungeons, and the end result is that I don't find those other 3 guys I need to do them. That's it.

greylox · January 2018

DLC normal mode dungeons seem as hard as non dlc vet dungeons so I'll just run them on normal for the story then prob leave them. Still haven't managed to pug the last dlc on vet so no biggie, don't let it get to ya and just enjoy normal.