Fang Lair Dungeon, and the Dev Statement

ArchMikem · January 2018

“With Dragon Bones, we are aiming for a level of difficulty similar to the dungeons found in Horns of the Reach," says Finnigan. “It's challenging, and there's a lot of stuff to deal with and learn, but you can get through it without feeling frustrated."

Perhaps they should make a footnote saying, "Stated experience only applies if partied with God Tier DPS and Tanks".

O_LYKOS · January 2018

LMFAO "without feeling frustrated" okayyyyyy

Magdalina · January 2018

Frustration is a very vague feeling and its causes can be very different for different people. I just got frustrated when I got CoH 1 for my random vet - because it's easy and boring. I'm sure a lot of people would be super grateful for fast easy run in COH 1 instead.

It's just a marketing thing like in those ads on TV, it'd be silly to take it at face value. Some will like them, some will hate them. Some - especially pugs - will get frustrated. Some will enjoy themselves. Wiping only equals frustration if you aren't having fun in the process btw.

...also why such lack of appreciation for healers?

zyk · January 2018

When farming Earthgore, I went to Bloodroot with a few random groups composed of PVP players in PVP bulds who only PVE when they absolutely have to and generally consider themselves to be bad at PVE and it was np at all. So "god tier" definitely doesn't apply.

ArchMikem · January 2018

Magdalina wrote: »

Frustration is a very vague feeling and its causes can be very different for different people. I just got frustrated when I got CoH 1 for my random vet - because it's easy and boring. I'm sure a lot of people would be super grateful for fast easy run in COH 1 instead.

It's just a marketing thing like in those ads on TV, it'd be silly to take it at face value. Some will like them, some will hate them. Some - especially pugs - will get frustrated. Some will enjoy themselves. Wiping only equals frustration if you aren't having fun in the process btw.

...also why such lack of appreciation for healers?

Healers are the easiest Role in ESO. It's why I main one in Dungeons.

Well, when I say "easiest", I mean it has the least learning curve and gear prep. Any MagPlar wearing Julianos and a Healer Monster Set can be a good Healer in Vet Dungeons so long as they have a decent rotation of Buffs and Heals. But the DPS and Tanks especially REALLY need to know what they're doing for the run to go smoothly.

Peekachu99 · January 2018

zyk wrote: »

When farming Earthgore, I went to Bloodroot with a few random groups composed of PVP players in PVP bulds who only PVE when they absolutely have to and generally consider themselves to be bad at PVE and it was np at all. So "god tier" definitely doesn't apply.

PVP players generally have a survivalist mentality and the ability to react quickly to changing scenarios. They’re usually among the best PVEers when they’re in the right headspace.

JD2013 · January 2018

Take the time to learn mechanics.

Don’t run with PUG.

Profit.

Honestly if people spent a quarter of the time they spend complaining to just learn some mechanics, we might have a few less complaints.

ArchMikem · January 2018

JD2013 wrote: »

Take the time to learn mechanics.

Don’t run with PUG.

Profit.

Honestly if people spent a quarter of the time they spend complaining to just learn some mechanics, we might have a few less complaints.

Who said there was complaining?

Linaleah · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Frustration is a very vague feeling and its causes can be very different for different people. I just got frustrated when I got CoH 1 for my random vet - because it's easy and boring. I'm sure a lot of people would be super grateful for fast easy run in COH 1 instead.

It's just a marketing thing like in those ads on TV, it'd be silly to take it at face value. Some will like them, some will hate them. Some - especially pugs - will get frustrated. Some will enjoy themselves. Wiping only equals frustration if you aren't having fun in the process btw.

...also why such lack of appreciation for healers?

Healers are the easiest Role in ESO. It's why I main one in Dungeons. Well, when I say "easiest", I mean it has the least learning curve and gear prep. Any MagPlar wearing Julianos and a Healer Monster Set can be a good Healer in Vet Dungeons so long as they have a decent rotation of Buffs and Heals. But the DPS and Tanks especially REALLY need to know what they're doing for the run to go smoothly.

I have to agree with that. its also the role with the least power to make or break most runs

in ESO, from my personal experiences lately - the role with the most power over how well your run goes is a dps. I now understand a lot more, why people demand certain numbers. becasue the way it changes your experience of a run is immense.

and the problem with that is that you can have a group that executes mechanics of the fight perfectly, but cannot finish because in the end, that fight is STILL a dps race. meanwhile, high enough dps group can often ignore mechanics all together.

so if these dungeons are going to be comparable to HOTR? I have a bad feeling its going to be all about dps numbers. again.

Silver_Strider · January 2018

I've completed vBRF all of 1 time on my NB healer and have attempted it several times afterwards with nothing but disappointment and excuses to show for it.

I've heard excuses after excuses from Tanks, Healers and DPS about why they fail. I legit had a tank say during the Hagraven boss that, "Oh, the Stragglers drain my resources if not killed fast enough, it's a DPS issue." I proceeded to SOLO the boss for 10 minute after everyone else was dead on my Stamblade JUST to prove they were full of s***.

If I, on my NB Healer, am able to solo a Stone Atronach before it enrages during the Minotaur boss, I damn well expect 2 DPS to DEMOLISH it in seconds.

I don't want excuses. I WANT RESULTS.

Iccotak · January 2018

Play normal version first if you have to in order to learn the mechanics

EmEm_Oh · January 2018

Why solo dungeons would be nice.

Tasear · January 2018

I find falkreath quite thrilling and blood root interesting yet sad cause it's hard to well find a tank for it. Only pity is well dps races as they are are making 3 dps the common way to do it especially over 40k mark for each dps.

MaxwellC · January 2018

@ArchMikem
Don't worry I'm a God-tier half celestial tier tank; I gots you and don't worry I got enough backpack space for the whole team and the entirety of the forums.
Lol.

Taleof2Cities · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Who said there was complaining?

So, if you're not complaining then why post?

Is it an "I'm looking out for the casual player" attempt to mask a real complaint?

Have you logged onto PTS to run the dungeon and have authority on the subject?

And you know that ZOS reserves the right to change the difficulty during the PTS cycle.

Not really sure where this is going ...

Rainraven · January 2018

EmEm_Oh wrote: »

Why solo dungeons would be nice.

If I'm going to fail over and over again for a while, I much prefer to do it alone, yeah. Then I know exactly who the problem is and fixing it is all in my power. And meanwhile, I'm not making anybody else fail too.

I really wish they'd implement this as an option, somehow somewhere for some things at least.

BlazingDynamo · January 2018

I think they only true answer for posts like this is, if you're so bad at the game then stop playing. The world doesn't revolve around you.

Your boss isn't going to make your job easier because you can't do the work, he's going to fire you and hire someone who can. Best just quit yourself and go do something you're good at

The_Brosteen · January 2018

This post reminds me of this one time on pc a guy who told me he refused to go into Vet darkshade 2 with a dps that parsed on a dummy below 30k.
Because darkshade 2 is end game super hard content, right.

VaranisArano · January 2018

What I noticed about Bloodroot Forge and Falkreath from running them for the first time over the free ESO+ trial was that the tank really has to pay attention to mechanics and holding aggro from certain powerful mobs, the DPS have to focus on priority targets, and the healer just has to focus on health first and priority targets if possible. It made for some interesting fights that I think really boosts the replayability of those dungeons where my experience would be completely different if I let someone else tank and played as a DPS instead.

So I like that design philosophy (even though Bloodroot Forge felt longer and grindier than City of Ash II, ugh).

Then again, I might be biased by the way it was nice to have a dungeon where a full support tank was actually needed...

RouDeR · January 2018

Mech i pug both of them on vet few hours after the PTS droped. They are prety easy after you pay atention to the mechanics.

bitels · January 2018

I like the difficulty scaling on new dungeons.
We have vet mode that isnt that hard- i belive that every decent player who will be willing to learn mechanic will be able to do them after some time. Even with lower-ish group DPS you will able to do them.
Then we have Hard Modes wich are quite hard, just right for everyone looking for extra challenge in their PvE content

Katahdin · January 2018

Yea spending 3 hours trying to kill Domihaus and not be able to get him past 12% wasnt frustrating at all........

DoctorESO · January 2018

.

MLGProPlayer · January 2018

Vet DLC dungeons are all about mechanics. You can beat them with like 5k DPS.

Asardes · January 2018

I was able to carry people plenty of times trough normal DLC dungeons and I played most of them on 2/3 or all 3 roles on veteran HM. For normals, unless people don't mess up some mechanic repeatedly and make it impossible to pass you can easily carry them if they have the willingness to listen. But some do, quite badly:

Ex. nFH I had a tank who absorbed the essence from the skeleton boss adds, but stayed put and let them reset instead of placing it on the bright spots. I was repeating the indications in group chat constantly and jumping at the spot but he wouldn't move. The reason I don't run with randoms often is that often you find such trolls that ignore you and screw it for everyone else.

Voxicity · January 2018

Why do people complain about the difficulty of DLC dungeons when they can just run them on normal? I mean come on, you have plenty of easy vet dungeons, let us have some 'hard' (not actually that hard) ones

Joy_Division · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Frustration is a very vague feeling and its causes can be very different for different people. I just got frustrated when I got CoH 1 for my random vet - because it's easy and boring. I'm sure a lot of people would be super grateful for fast easy run in COH 1 instead.

It's just a marketing thing like in those ads on TV, it'd be silly to take it at face value. Some will like them, some will hate them. Some - especially pugs - will get frustrated. Some will enjoy themselves. Wiping only equals frustration if you aren't having fun in the process btw.

...also why such lack of appreciation for healers?

Healers are the easiest Role in ESO. It's why I main one in Dungeons. Well, when I say "easiest", I mean it has the least learning curve and gear prep. Any MagPlar wearing Julianos and a Healer Monster Set can be a good Healer in Vet Dungeons so long as they have a decent rotation of Buffs and Heals. But the DPS and Tanks especially REALLY need to know what they're doing for the run to go smoothly.

If that's your thoughts on healers, I can see why you think that God tier DPS and tanks are necessary to complete dungeons.

ArchMikem · January 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

ArchMikem wrote: »

Who said there was complaining?

So, if you're not complaining then why post?

ZOS made a claim a difficult mechanic laden dlc dungeon shouldnt be frustrating. I decided to give a humorous reaction gif response that points out the obvious fallacy in said statement as dlc dungeons are the hardest and a great bane to pugs.

tl;dr, why not?

acw37162 · January 2018

ALL of the Vet DLC dungeons are pug unfriendly.

Regardless of developers statement, queuing for Vet DLC dungeons is a frustrating experience.

Yes you can occasionally find a really nice group of people who play the game well, actually play the role they que for, know mechanics, talk on mic, are helpful, and clear DLC dungeons with hard mode activated regularly. It can happen.

It however does not usually happen.

It is frustrating.

You you can join a guild and try to develop a network of people who enjoy the content you do and are on at the same time as you but if you are an adult, have a job, a family, friends, try to have a social life, or in general just try to balance you Lt life and time between gaming and other hobbies and responsibilities you will be frustrated.

As a console player who pugs the dailies regularly I can tell you PUG groups routinely fall apart at various points of every DLC dungeon, Direfrost keep, City of Ash II, Tempest Island, Darkshade Caverns II, and of all places Banished Cells 1.

Almost all of these are player issues with lack of skill. lack of understanding, lack of knowledge and very little to do with the actual game but it is still frustrating.

They will be frustrating I kinda just expect it at this point.

Sru · January 2018

ArchMikem wrote: »

Healers are the easiest Role in ESO. It's why I main one in Dungeons. Well, when I say "easiest", I mean it has the least learning curve and gear prep. Any MagPlar wearing Julianos and a Healer Monster Set can be a good Healer in Vet Dungeons so long as they have a decent rotation of Buffs and Heals. But the DPS and Tanks especially REALLY need to know what they're doing for the run to go smoothly.

There, corrected it for you. And never met a main healer with a monster healing set ...

Anyone at all with a resto staff can be a healer. Good healers will keep high up-time on SPC, Mending or whatever other support set they use. They will have healer optimised CP points that make their DPS crap. Great healers do the above, have different bars for different buffs depending on the situations, are fully aware of positioning to ensure they drop shards on tanks, keep the bouncing mages in the conal combat prayer, keep HOTs 100% up plus do10k+ DPS. They will often be ontop of HOTS enough to get rezzes up with no danger to tanks or DPSs thus increasing group damage considerably.

Quite frankly, I find magsorc considerably easier and less stressful than my healer.

Cinbri · January 2018

New dungeons is super easy, so you indeed don't need god-like teammates to run it for gear. Hardmode on other side does strong.