REMOVE OR NERF RESOURCE POISONS

Sandman929 · June 2016

ZOS keeps making things that are useful and balanced to an individual, or a small scale fight, and devastating in a zerg. And the zergs keep picking them up and running with them.

dwemer_cog11 · June 2016

Asmael wrote: »

As said above, duration is 10 seconds if only 1 resource, 6.4 for both 60% stam and mag increase. Guaranteed 100% uptime when outnumbered.

I like watching 5-8 people trying to kill a DK, running around the pillar. Oh, bats are down? Pop Igneous Shield
+Vigor (back to full HP in 2 sec)! Get snared? Pop Mist and suck all the damage. Mist is down? Pop the Scales! Scales are down? Oh, look, bats are up! Rinse and repeat.
It has come to an extent where people are actually start to deploy ballistas and catapults just to take down a single player turtling in the confined place like keep towers.

I hope poisons will take care of this problem

ToRelax · June 2016

dwemer_cog11 wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

As said above, duration is 10 seconds if only 1 resource, 6.4 for both 60% stam and mag increase. Guaranteed 100% uptime when outnumbered.

I like watching 5-8 people trying to kill a DK, running around the pillar. Oh, bats are down? Pop Igneous Shield
+Vigor (back to full HP in 2 sec)! Get snared? Pop Mist and suck all the damage. Mist is down? Pop the Scales! Scales are down? Oh, look, bats are up! Rinse and repeat.
It has come to an extent where people are actually start to deploy ballistas and catapults just to take down a single player turtling in the confined place like keep towers.

I hope poisons will take care of this problem

They won't, because the "problem" lies with those 5-8 players not managing to kill a single one. And poisons take out more of the need for them to fix that problem of theirs.

Takes-No-Prisoner · June 2016

Kalebron wrote: »

We fought a single dragonknight yesterday who would not die, so I equipped a poison that makes magicka and stamina cost up to 60% extra, and it was then and only then he started to get weakened. I think the poisons are appropriate and beneficial and maybe even need to drain magicka and stamina in addition to make it cost extra. At least I am not asked for a character nerf.

I use the same poison, but with 8% extra damage. And yeah, it is really useful to tag tanks with the poison. Good ones still won't go down even after you tag them multiple times(this assuming his healer is near by). You really need to slow play enemies this patch. I learned this by fighting a fun red DK tank yesterday. SA + Med attack weave to slow play the fight, protect my stam resource and drain his resources with poisons and Fear. It was a pretty great fight.

abelsgmx · July 2016

fred.thomsonb16_ESO wrote: »

I've had enough of dying to pleb groups whose only strength is numbers and poison, fix it please you dirty zerglings.

Poisons are just annoying, the game was fine before poinsons

Edziu · August 2016

now is to much poison from sets/weapon poison etc.....to sick now...the only poison what should reamin is in bow what we have nonstop since beta...all other poisons are to annyoing on pvp, to strong

Ankael07 · August 2016

abelsgmx wrote: »

fred.thomsonb16_ESO wrote: »

I've had enough of dying to pleb groups whose only strength is numbers and poison, fix it please you dirty zerglings.

Poisons are just annoying, the game was fine before poinsons

Poisons spice things up in pvp when done properly. But 60% resource cost increase? 60% ultimate cost ? Wth were devs thinking ??

E-Zekiel · August 2016

Or we could just go with a sensible solution that doesn't fundamentally change the dynamic of large scale PVP while still alleviating an annoyance that I too have shared. That is, oh hi everyb-- oh I'm out of stamina. K bye dead. It's very irritating.

A sensible solution would be to just have it so when you're hit by a resource poison, you gain a temporary immunity to it for x seconds. I think 5-7 seconds would be reasonable enough.

ManDraKE · August 2016

dwemer_cog11 wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

As said above, duration is 10 seconds if only 1 resource, 6.4 for both 60% stam and mag increase. Guaranteed 100% uptime when outnumbered.

I like watching 5-8 people trying to kill a DK, running around the pillar. Oh, bats are down? Pop Igneous Shield
+Vigor (back to full HP in 2 sec)! Get snared? Pop Mist and suck all the damage. Mist is down? Pop the Scales! Scales are down? Oh, look, bats are up! Rinse and repeat.
It has come to an extent where people are actually start to deploy ballistas and catapults just to take down a single player turtling in the confined place like keep towers.

I hope poisons will take care of this problem

Vigor, mist form, bats and scales all in the same build?? Yeah sure, next time try to get a more credible story. Posion won't fill your lack of understanding of the game, if you can't differentiate a magika dk from a stamina dk, i hardly belive you word is worth something in a balance thread.

L2P issue, as usual.

leepalmer95 · August 2016

dwemer_cog11 wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

As said above, duration is 10 seconds if only 1 resource, 6.4 for both 60% stam and mag increase. Guaranteed 100% uptime when outnumbered.

I like watching 5-8 people trying to kill a DK, running around the pillar. Oh, bats are down? Pop Igneous Shield
+Vigor (back to full HP in 2 sec)! Get snared? Pop Mist and suck all the damage. Mist is down? Pop the Scales! Scales are down? Oh, look, bats are up! Rinse and repeat.
It has come to an extent where people are actually start to deploy ballistas and catapults just to take down a single player turtling in the confined place like keep towers.

I hope poisons will take care of this problem

So someone builds to survive and they get penalised for that?

If that player can survive that many people then:

1. Those players are bad.
2. The guy is built as a tank and will have no dmg.
3. Not sure which build runs bats/vigor/mist form.

ToRelax · August 2016

E-Zekiel wrote: »

Or we could just go with a sensible solution that doesn't fundamentally change the dynamic of large scale PVP while still alleviating an annoyance that I too have shared. That is, oh hi everyb-- oh I'm out of stamina. K bye dead. It's very irritating.

A sensible solution would be to just have it so when you're hit by a resource poison, you gain a temporary immunity to it for x seconds. I think 5-7 seconds would be reasonable enough.

You realize they last 6-10 seconds, right?

Qbiken · August 2016

bardx86 wrote: »

Kalebron wrote: »

We fought a single dragonknight yesterday who would not die, so I equipped a poison that makes magicka and stamina cost up to 60% extra, and it was then and only then he started to get weakened. I think the poisons are appropriate and beneficial and maybe even need to drain magicka and stamina in addition to make it cost extra. At least I am not asked for a character nerf.

Take that mentality against a sorc who's whole defense is based on his resources and he screwed. All these poisons do is lessen the time i can actually fight in the the game. The whole reason i play this game is to fight. Why would anyone with half a brain create a process that take me away from the whole reason i enjoy playing there dam game. Its moronic.

What´s wrong with people these days? C´mon, poison gives you another way to counter builds that you otherwise would have a hard time dealing with. It´s a decent tactical PvP move. L2p....

Strider_Roshin · August 2016

Poisons aren't that bad; I've done duels, and 1vX against people that use poisons, and I honestly just play normal while being very mindful of my resources. It really doesn't last long enough to make a stink out of it.

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Poisons aren't that bad; I've done duels, and 1vX against people that use poisons, and I honestly just play normal while being very mindful of my resources. It really doesn't last long enough to make a stink out of it.

This is only true if they are making their poison too complex. You can easily get 10s of stamina cost increase with means death. You can equally get 6s of stamina and Magicka cost increase which can just as equally mean death.

Makkir · August 2016

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Poisons aren't that bad; I've done duels, and 1vX against people that use poisons, and I honestly just play normal while being very mindful of my resources. It really doesn't last long enough to make a stink out of it.

This is only true if they are making their poison too complex. You can easily get 10s of stamina cost increase with means death. You can equally get 6s of stamina and Magicka cost increase which can just as equally mean death.

I think 10 second is your single "trait" poison, 6 second is the double trait, and so on. I was running health drain, 60% stam and magicka and I am pretty sure it lasted 4.5 seconds which seems decent to me.

E-Zekiel · August 2016

ToRelax wrote: »

E-Zekiel wrote: »

Or we could just go with a sensible solution that doesn't fundamentally change the dynamic of large scale PVP while still alleviating an annoyance that I too have shared. That is, oh hi everyb-- oh I'm out of stamina. K bye dead. It's very irritating.

A sensible solution would be to just have it so when you're hit by a resource poison, you gain a temporary immunity to it for x seconds. I think 5-7 seconds would be reasonable enough.

You realize they last 6-10 seconds, right?

Actually I didn't realize that >_>

Maybe nerf the duration or just make it an "on hit" drain rather than drain over time. And add the immunity as suggested thereafter

Toc de Malsvi · August 2016

Makkir wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Poisons aren't that bad; I've done duels, and 1vX against people that use poisons, and I honestly just play normal while being very mindful of my resources. It really doesn't last long enough to make a stink out of it.

This is only true if they are making their poison too complex. You can easily get 10s of stamina cost increase with means death. You can equally get 6s of stamina and Magicka cost increase which can just as equally mean death.

I think 10 second is your single "trait" poison, 6 second is the double trait, and so on. I was running health drain, 60% stam and magicka and I am pretty sure it lasted 4.5 seconds which seems decent to me.

Yes that is accurate from my experience, I've run the same poisons as I found the 4.5 seconds was plenty for most of the opponents I face. Plus I still want some extra damage from that proc.

I can see where running a staff or using longer cast abilities can make this seem like a low proc. But as someone that uses a Bow I can tell you it proc's all the time, and 1v1 simply light weaving with Venom Arrow will usually force my opponent out of resources while I sit and gather my own.

Things like Arrow Barrage, and Bombard have a chance to proc for every target you hit as far as I'm aware. The bigger issue I face is that in 2 hours I'm running through a stack of 200 potions which is exhausting my reagent supply. I know there are players though that have much better supply income than myself through handling of guild vendor trading.

ToRelax · August 2016

E-Zekiel wrote: »

ToRelax wrote: »

E-Zekiel wrote: »

Or we could just go with a sensible solution that doesn't fundamentally change the dynamic of large scale PVP while still alleviating an annoyance that I too have shared. That is, oh hi everyb-- oh I'm out of stamina. K bye dead. It's very irritating.

A sensible solution would be to just have it so when you're hit by a resource poison, you gain a temporary immunity to it for x seconds. I think 5-7 seconds would be reasonable enough.

You realize they last 6-10 seconds, right?

Actually I didn't realize that >_>

Maybe nerf the duration or just make it an "on hit" drain rather than drain over time. And add the immunity as suggested thereafter

Yep, if there was a decent immunity window after the poison effect, it wouldn't be such a problem. I would still want a better visible animation when I'm poisoned then, though, the old one has no chance to be seen by me with all the effects going on...

Waffennacht · August 2016

I like how some poisons have a period at the end of the sentence and some don't.

I also like how one has "(10 second cooldown)" and no others have that text

KenaPKK · August 2016

We have too much sustain.

However, applying a 60% cost increase to one resource pool 100% of the time or to both pools for 2/3 of the time is absurd.

Should be more like 20%.

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2016

You know their is a thng called purge right ? It removes that poison.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO · August 2016

Thanks for all of your inputs, surprising to hear about people dueling with poisons, having something with no counter in a duel seems like a bit of a joke, throws skill out the window you could say. Then again the general decline in skill based combat seems to be a thing now, animation cancelling is becoming less valuable with the ease of access to high damage and high mitigation builds. I feel poisons are just another run on the ladder to a zergy no skill late game experience, great for new players but for those who have mastered their specific classes getting run over by pugs might become tiresome unless they group up and use cancer builds like we've already been seeing. We won't see any type of balance until arenas though so whatever.....

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

You know their is a thng called purge right ? It removes that poison.

Purge removes 2 negative effects and as a stam class you can use it once IF you have the efficient purge morph, unless you are using tri food, then you can use the regular once. This could remove ANY 2 negative effects, not potentially the poison. Templar meta..........

ManDraKE · August 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

You know their is a thng called purge right ? It removes that poison.

purge cost 4k magika, and posion gets reapplied instantly (and is probably that other debuffs will get purged instead of the posion). The only class that can somehow counter posions are templars, the rest is ***.

MCBIZZLE300 · January 2018

Wow can't belive after all this time they stiff haven't nerfed these poisons, wtf is going on!

Waffennacht · January 2018

mcb123 wrote: »

Wow can't belive after all this time they stiff haven't nerfed these poisons, wtf is going on!

Since this was posted they did put them at 30%.

You necroed this. They're still powerful, but not the same

ak_pvp · January 2018

Waffennacht wrote: »

mcb123 wrote: »

Wow can't belive after all this time they stiff haven't nerfed these poisons, wtf is going on!

Since this was posted they did put them at 30%.

You necroed this. They're still powerful, but not the same

We also lost more sustain. Whilst technically correct, they are the same effectiveness.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO · January 2018

Please necro every thread to do with cost poisons until they are gone, thanks in advance.

idk · January 2018

vamp_emily wrote: »

It seems like everyone wants to nerf for all the wrong reasons, the real problem is zerges / campaign balance. Focus on the real problem.

While zergs are not going away, they have been in Cyrodiil since day one and where in DAoC which is the basic design principal[le for Cyro, you are correct. Since adding poisons to the game did not bring about zergs nerfing them or even removing them would not remove zergs.

As someone stated, there is strength in numbers.

BTW, Zos is looking at removing the cap on AoEs to help with zergs. Just fyi. It is on the PTS ATM.

Minalan · January 2018

dwemer_cog11 wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

As said above, duration is 10 seconds if only 1 resource, 6.4 for both 60% stam and mag increase. Guaranteed 100% uptime when outnumbered.

I like watching 5-8 people trying to kill a DK, running around the pillar. Oh, bats are down? Pop Igneous Shield
+Vigor (back to full HP in 2 sec)! Get snared? Pop Mist and suck all the damage. Mist is down? Pop the Scales! Scales are down? Oh, look, bats are up! Rinse and repeat.
It has come to an extent where people are actually start to deploy ballistas and catapults just to take down a single player turtling in the confined place like keep towers.

I hope poisons will take care of this problem

Pretty much this. Poisons are a broken fix to some even more broken mitigation, blocking, and healing mechanics.

Mist form needs to be looked at..