megnin wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Stania wrote: »

The only problem I have with all this is:
Skimpy, tighter or sexy outfits = intended for females.
Covers a lot more, loose. Recycled from the recycled parts of other costumes = intended for males.

The only "revealing clothes" for males are the pirate outfit which has those McHammer pants and the argonian one, which has a skirt (way longer than it's female new version, no surprise).

Come on, ZoS, some of us wish we don't have to cross-dress our males characters in order for them to wear tighter clothes or show more of their tattoos and anatomy too (the Balmora costume looks good on males with athletic bodytypes, but is still too "feminine"). If you're going to break your lore-friendliness and modesty rules, do it for both sexes equally.

There are some armor motifs that show quite a bit. I think minotaur, but it might be a different one.

Is this the style you're thinking of? It's Mazzatun. Craftable.

No. But it's a good example.

klowdy1 wrote: »

I can't imagine in the entire world, with all climates considered, someone wouldn't be wea4ing something like this. ESO opens up many avenues for roll playing, which includes town cloths. Some people like to log on and sit in the cities, doing whatever roll players of that nature do. It doesn't seem fair they aren't allowed to dress up how they like when doing so, simply because you have a problem with it. No need to punish everyone for your hangups.

Great! If immersion should be at the whim of the players, I want to see the following:

1. Dwemer Gatling Laser (a la fallout 3)
2. Neo's jacket and sunglasses
3. A modern day business suit (so I can roleplay a pimp for all the scantily clad folks)
4. Star Trek uniforms - I realize there would have to be licensing involved, but I'll play crowns!
5. Schoolgirl uniform
6. Jedi Lightsaber
7. ???


I'm betting most of the people posting here draw a line somewhere. Unfortunately, it's not where TES lore ends...

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

@Samadhi

Samadhi wrote: »

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

@Samadhi

Just a joke, take it lightly^^

No offense intended, but who are you again?

Without the quote chain of posts it is, at times, difficult for me to keep track of who is who in a thread

I was the one who said SJWs were now defending skimpy attire. Anyway just a corny joke and while I implied it,I do not honestly believe you are a SJW . I simply found the discussion in this thread to be quite amusing and was pleasantly surprised that it wasn't just triggered whiteknights spamming hate to the devs XD.

Thanks for the clarification,
no worries tho, generally do not take life seriously

Yes @Wreuntzylla it is most wise to include fauld/tassets in armor of any kind. Stylish and mobile.

The argonian (and bosmer while we're at it) casual clothes aren't even particularly skimpy for casual clothing. Black Marsh and Valenwood are presumably hot and humid climates. What do people think women (usually women) wear? These argonian styles are absolutely reasonable as casual clothing. These aren't string bikinis.

Tapio75 wrote: »

Costume which can soon be used with outfit system to overwrite the real armor looks.

It already does that...

The only "revealing" costume I like is the nordic bathtowel and thats purely to run around showing off my vmol skin and bloodforge skin. They're shiny

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Great! If immersion should be at the whim of the players, I want to see the following:

1. Dwemer Gatling Laser (a la fallout 3)
2. Neo's jacket and sunglasses
3. A modern day business suit (so I can roleplay a pimp for all the scantily clad folks)
4. Star Trek uniforms - I realize there would have to be licensing involved, but I'll play crowns!
5. Schoolgirl uniform
6. Jedi Lightsaber
7. ???

"Oh, you want to wear your Normal TES Town Clothes in combat? Well, where's my Iron Man Armor?!?"

Brilliant reasoning there. Just a bit of a hyperbolic jump into stuff no-one was asking for or talking about.

So, you think wearing a bikini into combat is more reasonable than the appearance of Iron Man armor?

This whole thread is about realism and immersion. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a topic...

I am a fan of human history, which TESO lore is derived from. It's much more likely to see advanced armor or weaponry suddenly spring into use without any indication of its origin than it is to find instances of scantily clad armies engaging in combat.

It's actually not about realism at all, since it's based around a fake world. Immersion, yes. You should Google ancient Egyptian clothing soldiers wore if you want to see how authentic this new costume is. Most ancient cultures wore cloths like this, so it seems you aren't as in to human history as you think.

Samadhi wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Great! If immersion should be at the whim of the players, I want to see the following:

1. Dwemer Gatling Laser (a la fallout 3)
2. Neo's jacket and sunglasses
3. A modern day business suit (so I can roleplay a pimp for all the scantily clad folks)
4. Star Trek uniforms - I realize there would have to be licensing involved, but I'll play crowns!
5. Schoolgirl uniform
6. Jedi Lightsaber
7. ???

"Oh, you want to wear your Normal TES Town Clothes in combat? Well, where's my Iron Man Armor?!?"

Brilliant reasoning there. Just a bit of a hyperbolic jump into stuff no-one was asking for or talking about.

So, you think wearing a bikini into combat is more reasonable than the appearance of Iron Man armor?

This whole thread is about realism and immersion. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a topic...

I am a fan of human history, which TESO lore is derived from. It's much more likely to see advanced armor or weaponry suddenly spring into use without any indication of its origin than it is to find instances of scantily clad armies engaging in combat.

When you mention being a fan of human history
do you have a particular era or area in mind?

When considering the broadness of human history,
personally also think of the traditional tribal cultures from across the world
prior to considering how full plate armours represent a small fraction of the population with money and means
during a small slice of history in a few particular locations in the world

Native North and South Americans fought 'scantily clad' in body paint and loincloths
The Celts had a subset of warriors that fought in the nude
the Zulu faced off against the British Army after Britain had given up on plate armour, and did so with cowhide shields being their best defense



There is definitely some armoured combat through medieval Europe,
at least among the individuals that could afford armour
and Samurai culture in Akav...Japan had some beautiful armour designs that were practical for the weapons they faced
but would almost be inclined to venture a guess that through a larger portion of history
useful, covering armour is the less frequent occurrence compared to fighting with exposed skin

At least the 'exposing' costumes and armours have been associated with cultures that they make sense for in Tamriel
we got Argonian and Bosmer jungle wear, rather than Imperial combat bikinis

First, let's baseline the conversation with a recap. I said am a fan of human history.

I hate to use Wikipedia as a source, but...

"History (from Greek ἱστορία, historia, meaning "inquiry, knowledge acquired by investigation")[2] is the study of the past as it is described in written documents.[3][4] Events occurring before written record are considered prehistory."

"Prehistory is the period of human activity between the use of the first stone tools c. 3.3 million years ago and the invention of writing systems, the earliest of which appeared c. 5,300 years ago."

I also said that "It's much more likely to see advanced armor or weaponry suddenly spring into use without any indication of its origin than it is to find instances of scantily clad armies engaging in combat." I clearly didn't say it never happened. But I am not talking about small, historically unimportant tribes fighting each other.

Having said that, the idea that "useful, covering armour is the less frequent occurrence compared to fighting with exposed skin" is ... let's just say, unsupportable. Assuming you mean exposed skin = scantily clad.

Add up all known instances of unarmored combat before gunpowder, or even lightly armored combat, weigh them against recorded history, and discover it's mathematically inconsequential. It's the outlying exception, not the rule. I'm sure there were plenty of tribes, that when first come upon by a more technologically advanced armored opponent, fought without armor. They were, you know, wiped out... Which is the overarching point.

Native North and South Americans? You mean like Incas? Native Mexicans? Mayans?

https://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/



American Indians?




Africa? A few pictures of African armor.

https://www.quora.com/Did-ancient-Africans-wear-armor-if-so-pictures

You point to Shaka. You got me there. I did not mean to include post-Renaissance warfare, where armor became pointless due to gunpowder. TESO does not have guns. Probably why they disappeared the Dwarves.

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Great! If immersion should be at the whim of the players, I want to see the following:

1. Dwemer Gatling Laser (a la fallout 3)
2. Neo's jacket and sunglasses
3. A modern day business suit (so I can roleplay a pimp for all the scantily clad folks)
4. Star Trek uniforms - I realize there would have to be licensing involved, but I'll play crowns!
5. Schoolgirl uniform
6. Jedi Lightsaber
7. ???

"Oh, you want to wear your Normal TES Town Clothes in combat? Well, where's my Iron Man Armor?!?"

Brilliant reasoning there. Just a bit of a hyperbolic jump into stuff no-one was asking for or talking about.

So, you think wearing a bikini into combat is more reasonable than the appearance of Iron Man armor?

This whole thread is about realism and immersion. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a topic...

I am a fan of human history, which TESO lore is derived from. It's much more likely to see advanced armor or weaponry suddenly spring into use without any indication of its origin than it is to find instances of scantily clad armies engaging in combat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nudity_in_combat

Are you sure about that? Because for someone that claims to be a fan of history. You seem quite uneducated about it.

Really? I argue that scantily clad fighting is rare and you are going to counter my argument with a webpage that points to one mercenary tribe of the Celts, hired by the Celts, that were "one and done?"

Here is what Polybius tells us happened to the naked fighters:

“For the Gaulish shield does not cover the whole body; so that their nakedness was a disadvantage, and the bigger they were the better chance had the missiles of going home. At length, unable to drive off the javelineers owing to the distance and the hail of javelins, and reduced to the utmost distress and perplexity, some of them, in their impotent rage, rushed wildly on the enemy and sacrificed their lives, while others, retreating step by step on the ranks of their comrades, threw them into disorder by their display of faint-heartedness. Thus was the spirit of the Gaesatae broken down by the javelineers.”

Here is what the webpage has to say generally.

"Nudity in combat is the practice of entering combat without the use of clothing and armor. It is rarely practiced, however; apart from the social aspects of nudity, the combatant lacks even the basic protection of clothes, for instance when diving for cover or crawling. Also the combatant misses the practicality of hiding/carrying objects in pockets and attached to clothes.

The artistic convention of heroic nudity, however, was established in the art of ancient Greece by the Archaic period."

You could find better support...

klowdy1 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Great! If immersion should be at the whim of the players, I want to see the following:

1. Dwemer Gatling Laser (a la fallout 3)
2. Neo's jacket and sunglasses
3. A modern day business suit (so I can roleplay a pimp for all the scantily clad folks)
4. Star Trek uniforms - I realize there would have to be licensing involved, but I'll play crowns!
5. Schoolgirl uniform
6. Jedi Lightsaber
7. ???

"Oh, you want to wear your Normal TES Town Clothes in combat? Well, where's my Iron Man Armor?!?"

Brilliant reasoning there. Just a bit of a hyperbolic jump into stuff no-one was asking for or talking about.

So, you think wearing a bikini into combat is more reasonable than the appearance of Iron Man armor?

This whole thread is about realism and immersion. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a topic...

I am a fan of human history, which TESO lore is derived from. It's much more likely to see advanced armor or weaponry suddenly spring into use without any indication of its origin than it is to find instances of scantily clad armies engaging in combat.

It's actually not about realism at all, since it's based around a fake world. Immersion, yes. You should Google ancient Egyptian clothing soldiers wore if you want to see how authentic this new costume is. Most ancient cultures wore cloths like this, so it seems you aren't as in to human history as you think.

<sigh>

Egyptians wore armor....




One of the great findings in Tutankhamun's tomb was a cuirass.... made of leather. Which is why it's one of the only examples to have survived ancient times. There are many cultures in which we only have a partial knowledge of the armor they used, because unlike metal, organic materials do not last very long.

They also did not wear much armor due to the heat. And were easily wiped out by military forces wearing more armor. Octavian effectively wiped out ancient Egypt. He did such a good job, their language disappeared from the Earth until the discovery of the Rosetta stone...

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

Great! If immersion should be at the whim of the players, I want to see the following:

1. Dwemer Gatling Laser (a la fallout 3)
2. Neo's jacket and sunglasses
3. A modern day business suit (so I can roleplay a pimp for all the scantily clad folks)
4. Star Trek uniforms - I realize there would have to be licensing involved, but I'll play crowns!
5. Schoolgirl uniform
6. Jedi Lightsaber
7. ???

"Oh, you want to wear your Normal TES Town Clothes in combat? Well, where's my Iron Man Armor?!?"

Brilliant reasoning there. Just a bit of a hyperbolic jump into stuff no-one was asking for or talking about.

So, you think wearing a bikini into combat is more reasonable than the appearance of Iron Man armor?

This whole thread is about realism and immersion. Otherwise, it wouldn't be a topic...

I am a fan of human history, which TESO lore is derived from. It's much more likely to see advanced armor or weaponry suddenly spring into use without any indication of its origin than it is to find instances of scantily clad armies engaging in combat.

When you mention being a fan of human history
do you have a particular era or area in mind?

When considering the broadness of human history,
personally also think of the traditional tribal cultures from across the world
prior to considering how full plate armours represent a small fraction of the population with money and means
during a small slice of history in a few particular locations in the world

Native North and South Americans fought 'scantily clad' in body paint and loincloths
The Celts had a subset of warriors that fought in the nude
the Zulu faced off against the British Army after Britain had given up on plate armour, and did so with cowhide shields being their best defense



There is definitely some armoured combat through medieval Europe,
at least among the individuals that could afford armour
and Samurai culture in Akav...Japan had some beautiful armour designs that were practical for the weapons they faced
but would almost be inclined to venture a guess that through a larger portion of history
useful, covering armour is the less frequent occurrence compared to fighting with exposed skin

At least the 'exposing' costumes and armours have been associated with cultures that they make sense for in Tamriel
we got Argonian and Bosmer jungle wear, rather than Imperial combat bikinis

First, let's baseline the conversation with a recap. I said am a fan of human history.

I hate to use Wikipedia as a source, but...

"History (from Greek ἱστορία, historia, meaning "inquiry, knowledge acquired by investigation")[2] is the study of the past as it is described in written documents.[3][4] Events occurring before written record are considered prehistory."

"Prehistory is the period of human activity between the use of the first stone tools c. 3.3 million years ago and the invention of writing systems, the earliest of which appeared c. 5,300 years ago."

I also said that "It's much more likely to see advanced armor or weaponry suddenly spring into use without any indication of its origin than it is to find instances of scantily clad armies engaging in combat." I clearly didn't say it never happened. But I am not talking about small, historically unimportant tribes fighting each other.
...

Lots of interesting stuff, gave you an Insightful

It seems from the outset we are in miscommunication -- if you choose to view a certain area as being of interest due to written texts, can respect that
personally come from a background that emphasizes oral history and oral tradition in their impact
Métis bloodlines face an interesting collision between European colonial powers and the First Nations in Canada
with a number of the Nations in modern day still having their traditions translated into English
and, in some instances, being 'written into history' for the first time

my academic studies were specifically into religious traditions
which frequently notes the discrepancy between the upper and lower classes
but glosses over some of the grit of the more chaotic periods

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

...
Having said that, the idea that "useful, covering armour is the less frequent occurrence compared to fighting with exposed skin" is ... let's just say, unsupportable. Assuming you mean exposed skin = scantily clad.

Add up all known instances of unarmored combat before gunpowder, or even lightly armored combat, weigh them against recorded history, and discover it's mathematically inconsequential. It's the outlying exception, not the rule. I'm sure there were plenty of tribes, that when first come upon by a more technologically advanced armored opponent, fought without armor. They were, you know, wiped out... Which is the overarching point.
...

Exposed skin refers to unarmoured skin
Armour changed battlefields, and the transition to plate armour resulted in changes to weaponry
such as an emphasis on maces where blades were less efficient
a reduction to the relative danger of arrows
and the creation of the 'murder stroke' as a means of using the crossguard of the sword to pierce helmets

Am acutely aware of what happens when the technologically advanced come upon indigenous tribes

it is not as pleasant and 'merciful' as in TES

The two warriors met before the Empress and Imperial Council in the arena, which had been flooded slightly to simulate the swampy conditions of Black Marsh. From the moment Saccus saw Eul in his suit of heavy ebony and blazing dai-katana and Beraid in his collection of dusty, rusted lizard-scales and spear from Hazadir's shop, he knew who would win. And he was right.

The first blow from the dai-katana lodged in Beraid's soft shield, as there was no metal trim to deflect it. Before Eul could pull his sword back, Beraid let go of the now-flaming shield, still stuck on the sword, and poked at the joints of Eul's ebony armor with his spear. Eul finally retrieved his sword from the ruined shield and slashed at Beraid but his light armor was scaled and angled, and the attacks rolled off into the water, extinguishing the dai-katana's flames. When Beraid struck at Eul's feet, he fell into the churned mud and was unable to move. The Empress, out of mercy, called a victor.

Hazadir received the commission and thanks to his knowledge of Argonian battle tactics and weaponry and how best to combat them, he designed implements of war that brought down the insurrection in Armanias. Katariah won the respect of Council, and even, grudgingly, that of Thane Minglumire. Sirollus Saccus went to Morrowind to learn what Hazadir learned there, and was never heard from again.

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/The_Armorer's_Challenge

History is written by the winners and all that

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

...
Native North and South Americans? You mean like Incas? Native Mexicans? Mayans?

https://pintsofhistory.com/2011/08/10/mesoamerican-cotton-armor-better-than-steel/



American Indians?




Africa? A few pictures of African armor.

https://www.quora.com/Did-ancient-Africans-wear-armor-if-so-pictures

You point to Shaka. You got me there. I did not mean to include post-Renaissance warfare, where armor became pointless due to gunpowder. TESO does not have guns. Probably why they disappeared the Dwarves.
...

These were all really interesting, thanks for taking the time to gather them
would you be able to dig out some armours from India?
history or 'prehistory' would be fine
but areas of particular interest pertain to
The early/rough period of kingdoms of the Buddha's pre-spiritual life
portrayals of the Sakyamuni Buddha emphasize his later asceticism
but he was born into the ruling class, and it would be interesting to see what sorts of combat and warfare his mundane life was associated with
prior to renunciation

and maybe the rule of Asoka or Chandragupta
as Bollywood and Civilization tends to portray what could be presumed to be more ritual or casual clothing depending on context

it would also be interesting to see armour from the time of Mohammad
and how that may compare with the armour of the early janissaries

>Skimpy outfits not lore friendly?
>Azura in Arena?
>

Let me have my damn pretty skirts.