Yubarius wrote: »

So being good at the game makes you elite, which has a typical negative connotation. Since when did being good at something make you the bad guy??

Since people started confusing "elite" and "elitist".

They are helped in that confusion by political influencers who are are big on "anti-elite" messaging.

Tasear wrote: »

Depends how you play.

There's elite merchants making millions gold, but you didn't included that.

Lore masters who know game history like back of their hand.

Those guys who can name every npc and did every quest.

Anyone with master angler

Anyone who finished vDSA. (Best example of teamwork and skill)

Girl with 5 healers

5000 hours on your character.

Theory crafter who make anything work.

Guy who can lead worst teams success.

Trade guild owner with 60 million sales

So just like in life depends on how you the play game.

I kind of agree with the spirit of this post. You can be elite your YOUR area of play.

Intermission..... Get more popcorn, a refreshing drink, or stay for this video of a guy enjoying his computer time.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=KmtzQCSh6xk

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

Liofa wrote: »

Sorry to break this for you but these are just things that every average PvE player does. There is no such thing as ''elite''.

I don't know about that. I'm pretty average; 720CP, been playing about 15 months. I've only achieved about 9 of the items on OP's list, which I think is a good list in that it looks a lot like my goals for the coming year. I think that anyone who has done _all_ of that would be 'elite' in my mind, i.e., someone who would be in high demand for end-game group content, and who I would really like to run with and learn from.

Thogard wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

No the comparison is more like a 4×1600m relay vs a boxing match.

And you're stepping into the ring pumped up with performance enhancing drugs. What else can I call a stam warden lmao

And you ignore the rules and begin pummeling your opponent and the referee to death, because you care more about kills than Battlegrounds objectives.

Sounds elite all right.

There’s nothing elite about BGs. Cyrodil is the real PvP.

But glad to see I have fans here

Currently the most elite PvP is the legends dueling tournament and the animosity-hosted group vs group league

tfw cyrodiil zerging is more elite than player-balanced matchmaking with objectives 10/10

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

Im going to direct this response 100% to your metaphor and ignore everything else you said because its irrelevant.

So this whole insanely unnecessary forum post and discussion revolves around the idea of what makes someone competitive and what makes them *seen* competitive. At least that how i perceive what it means to be elite.

Its funny you choose baseball as your metaphor because of the major sports ive never seen one more stats related. One that is more statistically predictable. There are entire industries created and thriving over collecting data from players and extrapolating that to predict how they will perform against who and in what terms and so on.

I would compare pve to that system because like baseball players like pve mobs have stats and systems you know they do (which i would compare to a given pitcher's style, pitch type, or even the existence of planned plays.) Likewise with the pve players going in there doing pve content they have stats and know strats that are designed to go against those arch-type of mobs (like how competing teams have strategies to deal with certain planned plays that are developed in baseball.) Your perception that pve is 100% a competition against the clock is just ill-informed and ignorant to the complexity of what it takes to be a good pver and to compete against other good pvers.

The fact that you dont consider pve and pvp to share very similar systems just shows how poorly you understand ESO and gaming in general.

PVPERS like trial bosses have combos and mechanics that you can expect them to do and can pick up on tells so that you can react appropriately and take advantage of. I would expect a response to that to be "well pvpers are more rng based and can randomly decide to change it up bro.'' If you think that people dont experience poor rng or rng in general in pve then youll be hearing the rage from literally every pver ever. Things can get changed up in weird ways just as easily in pve as pvp.

Like you for instance, when i see you shalks, ill wait a sec then either get behind you or stun you or get out of the line that shalks will fire off to. Youre a pve mob to me, thogard, i can read you man. Just the same way i can read rakkhat when he tries to give me the slip by thrashing wings into hulk buff.
Like me for instance, when you see that i curse you; you can 100% expect that ill try to line up some other burst in 3.5 secs. You can react to that by ccing me when that burst potential show its self.

To be an elite player you need to be competitive against your peers and viewed as someone on the top. Period. In any aspect of eso. If you want to start getting into absolute best playeRs(S) EVeR then ya, compounding the best in all aspects into one player would prove that.

FeaR Turbo wrote: »

hi

hey baby

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

No the comparison is more like a 4×1600m relay vs a boxing match.

And you're stepping into the ring pumped up with performance enhancing drugs. What else can I call a stam warden lmao

And you ignore the rules and begin pummeling your opponent and the referee to death, because you care more about kills than Battlegrounds objectives.

Sounds elite all right.

There’s nothing elite about BGs. Cyrodil is the real PvP.

But glad to see I have fans here

Currently the most elite PvP is the legends dueling tournament and the animosity-hosted group vs group league

tfw cyrodiil zerging is more elite than player-balanced matchmaking with objectives 10/10

No but killing a Zerg with 4 people is pretty challenging.

I wish that BGs had more regular 4 man premade groups. But at the moment for every good premade v premade fight we get, theres 20 pug stomps, which has lead to us not grouping up. When your teammates are random, it’s hard to measure skill... too many variables.

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

Im going to direct this response 100% to your metaphor and ignore everything else you said because its irrelevant.

So this whole insanely unnecessary forum post and discussion revolves around the idea of what makes someone competitive and what makes them *seen* competitive. At least that how i perceive what it means to be elite.

Its funny you choose baseball as your metaphor because of the major sports ive never seen one more stats related. One that is more statistically predictable. There are entire industries created and thriving over collecting data from players and extrapolating that to predict how they will perform against who and in what terms and so on.

I would compare pve to that system because like baseball players like pve mobs have stats and systems you know they do (which i would compare to a given pitcher's style, pitch type, or even the existence of planned plays.) Likewise with the pve players going in there doing pve content they have stats and know strats that are designed to go against those arch-type of mobs (like how competing teams have strategies to deal with certain planned plays that are developed in baseball.) Your perception that pve is 100% a competition against the clock is just ill-informed and ignorant to the complexity of what it takes to be a good pver and to compete against other good pvers.

The fact that you dont consider pve and pvp to share very similar systems just shows how poorly you understand ESO and gaming in general.

PVPERS like trial bosses have combos and mechanics that you can expect them to do and can pick up on tells so that you can react appropriately and take advantage of. I would expect a response to that to be "well pvpers are more rng based and can randomly decide to change it up bro.'' If you think that people dont experience poor rng or rng in general in pve then youll be hearing the rage from literally every pver ever. Things can get changed up in weird ways just as easily in pve as pvp.

Like you for instance, when i see you shalks, ill wait a sec then either get behind you or stun you or get out of the line that shalks will fire off to. Youre a pve mob to me, thogard, i can read you man. Just the same way i can read rakkhat when he tries to give me the slip by thrashing wings into hulk buff.
Like me for instance, when you see that i curse you; you can 100% expect that ill try to line up some other burst in 3.5 secs. You can react to that by ccing me when that burst potential show its self.

To be an elite player you need to be competitive against your peers and viewed as someone on the top. Period. In any aspect of eso. If you want to start getting into absolute best playeRs(S) EVeR then ya, compounding the best in all aspects into one player would prove that.

I dunno how you can say with a straight face that PvE is not against a clock. What do you think DPS is a measure of? What do you think the scores are based off of?

But sure, to be an “elite” player you need to be good at both.

Thogard wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

No the comparison is more like a 4×1600m relay vs a boxing match.

And you're stepping into the ring pumped up with performance enhancing drugs. What else can I call a stam warden lmao

And you ignore the rules and begin pummeling your opponent and the referee to death, because you care more about kills than Battlegrounds objectives.

Sounds elite all right.

There’s nothing elite about BGs. Cyrodil is the real PvP.

But glad to see I have fans here

Currently the most elite PvP is the legends dueling tournament and the animosity-hosted group vs group league

tfw cyrodiil zerging is more elite than player-balanced matchmaking with objectives 10/10

No but killing a Zerg with 4 people is pretty challenging.

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

Im going to direct this response 100% to your metaphor and ignore everything else you said because its irrelevant.

So this whole insanely unnecessary forum post and discussion revolves around the idea of what makes someone competitive and what makes them *seen* competitive. At least that how i perceive what it means to be elite.

Its funny you choose baseball as your metaphor because of the major sports ive never seen one more stats related. One that is more statistically predictable. There are entire industries created and thriving over collecting data from players and extrapolating that to predict how they will perform against who and in what terms and so on.

I would compare pve to that system because like baseball players like pve mobs have stats and systems you know they do (which i would compare to a given pitcher's style, pitch type, or even the existence of planned plays.) Likewise with the pve players going in there doing pve content they have stats and know strats that are designed to go against those arch-type of mobs (like how competing teams have strategies to deal with certain planned plays that are developed in baseball.) Your perception that pve is 100% a competition against the clock is just ill-informed and ignorant to the complexity of what it takes to be a good pver and to compete against other good pvers.

The fact that you dont consider pve and pvp to share very similar systems just shows how poorly you understand ESO and gaming in general.

PVPERS like trial bosses have combos and mechanics that you can expect them to do and can pick up on tells so that you can react appropriately and take advantage of. I would expect a response to that to be "well pvpers are more rng based and can randomly decide to change it up bro.'' If you think that people dont experience poor rng or rng in general in pve then youll be hearing the rage from literally every pver ever. Things can get changed up in weird ways just as easily in pve as pvp.

Like you for instance, when i see you shalks, ill wait a sec then either get behind you or stun you or get out of the line that shalks will fire off to. Youre a pve mob to me, thogard, i can read you man. Just the same way i can read rakkhat when he tries to give me the slip by thrashing wings into hulk buff.
Like me for instance, when you see that i curse you; you can 100% expect that ill try to line up some other burst in 3.5 secs. You can react to that by ccing me when that burst potential show its self.

To be an elite player you need to be competitive against your peers and viewed as someone on the top. Period. In any aspect of eso. If you want to start getting into absolute best playeRs(S) EVeR then ya, compounding the best in all aspects into one player would prove that.

I dunno how you can say with a straight face that PvE is not against a clock. What do you think DPS is a measure of? What do you think the scores are based off of?

But sure, to be an “elite” player you need to be good at both.

I can say that with a straight face because i participate in it 4 nights a week for 3 hours.

When you use things like absolutes or when you say things like this = that. Im able to say no thats not true because its not complete, its not fully true.

Time is a factor in what makes a pve run good, its not the only factor like your boasting because you just dont understand. DPS isnt even the most important factor in making a trial short. You can take a group that maxs at 300k st on a dummy against a group that maxs out at 450k st on a dummies and give them different strats and have the outcome of that 300k st group getting a faster time in a trial. These are the things you know nothing of thogard. I will help you understand though if you wish.

Just the same as in pvp build is not the only factor in what makes a 1v1 sick. Its a factor but its not the only factor.
That would be like me saying pvp = build; it does but thats an incomplete idea which is wrong because it missing info in a format which demands those be the only parameters.

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Inig0 wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock.

Look at cyrodil, not trials, for elite players.

Trials = home run derby. Competitive, but you're not directly against anybody
PvP = baseball.

Man those are some real strict assumptions and comparisons.

Ill rephrase what you said that way it makes sense and makes the least amount of people look arrogant because how you worded it makes you look REALLY uninformed and weird.

''If you want to be elite, you have to compete against other players, not a clock. [your peers and come out on top.]"

While i think people should strive to be the best at everything in the game, yourself included thogard id like to see how well you perform in vas hm during storm while you have defile blast on you. So far all ive seen of you is holding block in BGs and using brain dead combos on a broken class, i would also say that its only reasonable to expect people to be the best at what they put time into doing.

Statements like 'OnLy pVPerS aRE gOoD aT tHe GaME' is hilarious and completely wrong.

For someone to be considered ELITE they (which generally has a negative connotation) usually just need to have A LOT of game knowledge in the aspect of the game they participate in, be able to execute it, and be doing better than all the people around them who are doing what they are doing.

People go against each other in trials where developing strats, figuring out how to push the most amount of damage, and what skills to use when sets them apart. In order to do things like vas hm no death or vhrc hm no death. Each player needs to perform their job 100% perfectly the entire time.

People go against each other in cyro where game knowledge and ability to execute combos and taking advantage of other peoples mistakes or class weaknesses set them apart from the average pug.

I would say there is the elite in each group and then there is the elite that are that elite in both aspects of the game of which people should aspire if thats what they want from the game.

Sure, why not. I detect a little bit of salt from you... I must’ve killed you a few times.

But I think the baseball metaphor is appropriate.

PvE = home run derby
PvP = baseball

Home run derby is still competitive. You’re still going up against other people. But it’s not adversarial. Everyone is doing something by themselves and their competitors can not affect each others’ individual outcomes.

In baseball and PvP, that’s obviously not the case.

Now go ask someone which is more elite - baseball or Homerun derby.

PS: my “block” build you mention runs medium armor, has no sturdy traits, and no block cost reduction glyphs. That’s why I can 2 round people.

Im going to direct this response 100% to your metaphor and ignore everything else you said because its irrelevant.

So this whole insanely unnecessary forum post and discussion revolves around the idea of what makes someone competitive and what makes them *seen* competitive. At least that how i perceive what it means to be elite.

Its funny you choose baseball as your metaphor because of the major sports ive never seen one more stats related. One that is more statistically predictable. There are entire industries created and thriving over collecting data from players and extrapolating that to predict how they will perform against who and in what terms and so on.

I would compare pve to that system because like baseball players like pve mobs have stats and systems you know they do (which i would compare to a given pitcher's style, pitch type, or even the existence of planned plays.) Likewise with the pve players going in there doing pve content they have stats and know strats that are designed to go against those arch-type of mobs (like how competing teams have strategies to deal with certain planned plays that are developed in baseball.) Your perception that pve is 100% a competition against the clock is just ill-informed and ignorant to the complexity of what it takes to be a good pver and to compete against other good pvers.

The fact that you dont consider pve and pvp to share very similar systems just shows how poorly you understand ESO and gaming in general.

PVPERS like trial bosses have combos and mechanics that you can expect them to do and can pick up on tells so that you can react appropriately and take advantage of. I would expect a response to that to be "well pvpers are more rng based and can randomly decide to change it up bro.'' If you think that people dont experience poor rng or rng in general in pve then youll be hearing the rage from literally every pver ever. Things can get changed up in weird ways just as easily in pve as pvp.

Like you for instance, when i see you shalks, ill wait a sec then either get behind you or stun you or get out of the line that shalks will fire off to. Youre a pve mob to me, thogard, i can read you man. Just the same way i can read rakkhat when he tries to give me the slip by thrashing wings into hulk buff.
Like me for instance, when you see that i curse you; you can 100% expect that ill try to line up some other burst in 3.5 secs. You can react to that by ccing me when that burst potential show its self.

To be an elite player you need to be competitive against your peers and viewed as someone on the top. Period. In any aspect of eso. If you want to start getting into absolute best playeRs(S) EVeR then ya, compounding the best in all aspects into one player would prove that.

I dunno how you can say with a straight face that PvE is not against a clock. What do you think DPS is a measure of? What do you think the scores are based off of?

But sure, to be an “elite” player you need to be good at both.

I assure you, the majority of the time we spend in trials is not against a clock. There are a lot of random stuff that happens that just gets compounded by having 11 flawed human beings + 1 equally-if-not-more-flawed lizardman in a group.

It still takes a lot of skill to learn enemy patterns and be able to work around them, to time your own movements perfectly, to be completely flexible in what you do in case a teammate goes down, and to do everything the best you can.

I described it as a 4x1600 relay race. It is much more complex than that. I would like to say that the majority of the work put into those happens before the actual trial, with all the theorycrafting and mathematical work that we collaborate on, and the development on strategies in previous runs. It's like you're trying to solve a Rubik's cube and jump over hurdles at the same time during the race itself.

DPS is only one matter when it comes to PvE, and it is relatively insignificant; it is relevant because it is pretty much the only easily-measurable statistic when it comes to PvE content. Competitive trial score-pushing is reliant on much, much more than brute-force DPS; survival is amongst the most important of them, and I guarantee that when faced with a Defiling Blast during Storm the Heavens in vAS +2 you'll be among the first to die.

Precision and efficiency; that's what PvE content is about. If PvP is a war zone, PvE is spec ops.

Man, coming up with crappy analogies for this can be fun!